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> Allegory of the Cave
KoolK3n
post Feb 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQfRdl3GTw4
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Jakare
post Feb 11, 2012, 02:35 AM
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Where is my flower?
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Joesus
post Feb 11, 2012, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 11, 2012, 10:35 AM) *

Where is my flower?

You have to come out of the cave to pick it for yourself.. wink.gif
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KoolK3n
post Feb 11, 2012, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 11:10 AM) *

You have to come out of the cave to pick it for yourself.. wink.gif


How?
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Jakare
post Feb 11, 2012, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 06:10 PM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 11, 2012, 10:35 AM) *

Where is my flower?

You have to come out of the cave to pick it for yourself.. wink.gif


Shit! Do I always need to learn the hard way? Can´t be easier for once?

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 09:05 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 11:10 AM) *

You have to come out of the cave to pick it for yourself.. wink.gif


How?

He is kicking me from my confy cave sad.gif without a flower or vaseline to make it more bareable! Is it that fair?
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Joesus
post Feb 11, 2012, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 11:10 AM) *

You have to come out of the cave to pick it for yourself.. wink.gif


How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes
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Jakare
post Feb 11, 2012, 02:24 PM
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Like this fella?

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KoolK3n
post Feb 11, 2012, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?
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KoolK3n
post Feb 11, 2012, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 11, 2012, 04:24 PM) *

Like this fella?


This is what would happen if I tried:

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Dianah
post Feb 11, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Different senses? Maybe you meant enhanced senses?

Different eyes? Is that peering at life through different perception/lenses derived from enhanced senses that bring forth expanded experiences?

Gotta first realize you are in a cave to move out of it…and to move out from the cave, one must use it as the tool that it is…mysteries of mysteries.
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Dianah
post Feb 11, 2012, 05:41 PM
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Jakare...You ARE the flower.
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Joesus
post Feb 11, 2012, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 01:39 AM) *

Different senses? Maybe you meant enhanced senses?

Different in that some use their inward directed intuitive senses, and others don't believe in them. Instead most use senses that are more basic to the fear of making mistakes within the orientation of outward going sight, sound and feeling tuned to fear and the shadows of the cave.
QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 01:39 AM) *

Different eyes? Is that peering at life through different perception/lenses derived from enhanced senses that bring forth expanded experiences?

Or the eyes that follow expanded experiences. Ones that aren't imagined outside of the direct experience.
QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 01:39 AM) *

Gotta first realize you are in a cave to move out of it…and to move out from the cave, one must use it as the tool that it is…mysteries of mysteries.

That necessitates an insight into greater realities, and the ability to step out of the cave to observe it for what it is before you can use it without being hypnotized by the cave mentality
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Dianah
post Feb 11, 2012, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE
Or the eyes that follow expanded experiences. Ones that aren't imagined outside of the direct experience.


There is no experience that is not first imagined. All experiences are begotten through imagination, be them from the little ego or the grandest of Masters.

QUOTE
That necessitates an insight into greater realities, and the ability to step out of the cave to observe it for what it is before you can use it without being hypnotized by the cave mentality


Not necessarily so…it only requires desire, followed by a question, in which to ‘move’ attention to ‘finding’ that which is sought.
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Joesus
post Feb 11, 2012, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:13 AM) *

QUOTE
Or the eyes that follow expanded experiences. Ones that aren't imagined outside of the direct experience.


There is no experience that is not first imagined. All experiences are begotten through imagination, be them from the little ego or the grandest of Masters.

What is imagined does not always produce experience (at least within the boundaries of the current life experience). One first must accept a reality that can be observed and experienced, then experience leads one thru it rather than standing outside of it wondering.
QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:13 AM) *

QUOTE
That necessitates an insight into greater realities, and the ability to step out of the cave to observe it for what it is before you can use it without being hypnotized by the cave mentality


Not necessarily so…it only requires desire, followed by a question, in which to ‘move’ attention to ‘finding’ that which is sought.

Which is insight into greater realities, and the ability to...
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Dianah
post Feb 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE
What is imagined does not always produce experience (at least within the boundaries of the current life experience). One first must accept a reality that can be observed and experienced, then experience leads one thru it rather than standing outside of it wondering.


Imagination ALWAYS produces experience…not talking about everyday daydreaming here.

If something is accepted by anyone then its already a reality to them…if ones attention moves to a potential or unknown, then it becomes a potential reality. Experience concretizes and eventually expands ones reality…experience brings understanding to a potential reality…making it ‘real‘ to that which imagines potential. The shadows cast upon the cave wall was of imagination, that which observed the reflection gave it potential, through experience it became their reality.

QUOTE
Which is insight into greater realities, and the ability to...


Insight comes from experience of that which is imagined…preceded by desire to understand the unknown.

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Trip like I do
post Feb 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?

its not meant to be easy.... you have to really want that flower and be stong enough to leave that cave
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Joesus
post Feb 11, 2012, 10:25 PM
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It's not exactly that it isn't meant to be easy, but when having immersed the mind into the subjective experience without the awareness of something greater in reality. Leaving the known for the unsure or inexperienced field of experience can be tenuous.

Traditionally this has been recognized as the evolution of individual growth in consciousness.
Difficulty is labeled by those who aren't really ready to commit themselves to a shift in habit and growth of consciousness. When one is ready there are no obstacles or issues that will slow someone down.
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post Feb 11, 2012, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 12, 2012, 01:25 AM) *

It's not exactly that it isn't meant to be easy, but when having immersed the mind into the subjective experience without the awareness of something greater in reality, leaving the known for the unsure or inexperienced field of experience can be tenuous.

Traditionally this has been recognized as the evolution of individual growth in consciousness.
Difficulty is labeled by those who aren't really ready to commit themselves to a shift in habit and growth of consciousness. When one is ready there are no obstacles or issues that will slow someone down.

as smart as you obviously are joe.... I think u may misinterpret what I mean when I say 'easy' and thusly u still may have not fully come forth from within that cave yourself (actually, have any of us?) Plz do not get defensive and go into a long rebuttal diatribe.... just food for thought, for u, for us all.
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Jakare
post Feb 12, 2012, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:41 AM) *

Jakare...You ARE the flower.

You are such a flatterer...It´s the first time I have been called so......Ok, look I am easy so don´t say things you may regret later, there is no need as I am already yours. See? I told you I was easy.

Now getting in to business, in what sense I am the flower? And how I can see the flower in me?


QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?

its not meant to be easy.... you have to really want that flower and be stong enough to leave that cave

I actually learned to build my computers with "Computer hardware for dummies" so they shoudn´t be underestimated at all.
But the cave can´t be all wrong! The stone walls are real stone and shadows are a part of surface reality aswell! So is not to bin everything you know but to allow new things to be included on your belief system, isn´t it?
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Trip like I do
post Feb 12, 2012, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 12, 2012, 07:37 AM) *

QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:41 AM) *

Jakare...You ARE the flower.

You are such a flatterer...It´s the first time I have been called so......Ok, look I am easy so don´t say things you may regret later, there is no need as I am already yours. See? I told you I was easy.

Now getting in to business, in what sense I am the flower? And how I can see the flower in me?


QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?

its not meant to be easy.... you have to really want that flower and be stong enough to leave that cave


But the cave can´t be all wrong! The stone walls are real stone and shadows are a part of surface reality as well!

remember.... the cave is an allegory
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Trip like I do
post Feb 12, 2012, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 12, 2012, 07:37 AM) *

QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:41 AM) *

Jakare...You ARE the flower.

You are such a flatterer...It´s the first time I have been called so......Ok, look I am easy so don´t say things you may regret later, there is no need as I am already yours. See? I told you I was easy.

Now getting in to business, in what sense I am the flower? And how I can see the flower in me?


QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?

its not meant to be easy.... you have to really want that flower and be stong enough to leave that cave

I actually learned to build my computers with "Computer hardware for dummies" so they shoudn´t be underestimated at all.

no depth.... just surface knowledge (like shadows on a wall)
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Jakare
post Feb 12, 2012, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:10 AM) *


remember.... the cave is an allegory


Touché.
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Joesus
post Feb 12, 2012, 07:52 AM
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QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:30 AM) *

I think u may misinterpret what I mean when I say 'easy' and thusly u still may have not fully come forth from within that cave yourself

Then I am wide open to have you expound upon the word and your use of it. After all that is why any of us participate in these conversations. Right?
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post Feb 12, 2012, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 10, 2012, 11:42 PM) *

I thought the ending was particularly poignant about bearing the responsibility of going back into the depths of the cave in an effort to help elevate those that still reside within out and into the brightness of light
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post Feb 12, 2012, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 12, 2012, 10:52 AM) *

QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:30 AM) *

I think u may misinterpret what I mean when I say 'easy' and thusly u still may have not fully come forth from within that cave yourself

Then I am wide open to have you expound upon the word and your use of it. After all that is why any of us participate in these conversations. Right?

of course you are.... but I do honestly believe that you are the sort of fella that enjoys finding his own answers, and unfortunately I am not an expounder smile.gif I was just making you aware that you may have misinterpreted my meaning
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Joesus
post Feb 12, 2012, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 04:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 12, 2012, 10:52 AM) *

Then I am wide open to have you expound upon the word and your use of it. After all that is why any of us participate in these conversations. Right?

of course you are.... but I do honestly believe that you are the sort of fella that enjoys finding his own answers, and unfortunately I am not an expounder smile.gif I was just making you aware that you may have misinterpreted my meaning

We all have our own experiences and since I have my own, I was using your statement as a seque to that experience as well as the description I presented of it.

Difficulty in any endeavor is going to be subjective, to a persons beliefs in their self and their personal reality.
Since we can share our experiences we can and do find commonality in those ideas.

QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 04:33 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 10, 2012, 11:42 PM) *

I thought the ending was particularly poignant about bearing the responsibility of going back into the depths of the cave in an effort to help elevate those that still reside within out and into the brightness of light

Interestingly enough, the idea that one must become part and parcel to their connected relationship to humanity as ones link to personal growth, is one of the tenets of scripture or enlightened dialogue and testimony.
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Dianah
post Feb 12, 2012, 05:13 PM
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No, I don’t flatter…just say what comes from the heart…I ‘feel’ you…subjective as that is…and from this subjective ‘feeling’…I like your vibe…or intent…

A flower is something of beauty…subjective as that may be….

We all hold within our being the spark of goodness…or beauty…

You say what you say and share what you share with little regard as to its repercussion to your self image…you are more ‘real’…or honest in what you share…therein lies your beauty…therein springs your flower.

We are all ’flowers’…we all possess ’beauty’…if that were not so…then we could never exit the cave and explore the sun…light of our being….

so...basically...I like what you share...how you feel...and you are 'real'...or vulnerable in your sharing.

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post Feb 13, 2012, 12:39 AM
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Jakare
post Feb 13, 2012, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:15 AM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 11, 2012, 04:24 PM) *

Like this fella?


This is what would happen if I tried:



I hate when that happens to me. I hate it!!!

QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 03:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 12, 2012, 07:37 AM) *

QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 12, 2012, 02:41 AM) *

Jakare...You ARE the flower.

You are such a flatterer...It´s the first time I have been called so......Ok, look I am easy so don´t say things you may regret later, there is no need as I am already yours. See? I told you I was easy.

Now getting in to business, in what sense I am the flower? And how I can see the flower in me?


QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 12, 2012, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 11, 2012, 03:30 PM) *

QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Feb 11, 2012, 08:05 PM) *

How?

use a different set of senses, and or eyes


Can I get it in a 'for dummies' format?

its not meant to be easy.... you have to really want that flower and be stong enough to leave that cave

I actually learned to build my computers with "Computer hardware for dummies" so they shoudn´t be underestimated at all.

no depth.... just surface knowledge (like shadows on a wall)

Still is the start of realization. What seems unachievable knowledge of gods become something more terrenal and dependent on how much time you want to spend on it.

QUOTE(Dianah @ Feb 13, 2012, 02:13 AM) *

No, I don’t flatter…just say what comes from the heart…I ‘feel’ you…subjective as that is…and from this subjective ‘feeling’…I like your vibe…or intent…

A flower is something of beauty…subjective as that may be….

We all hold within our being the spark of goodness…or beauty…

You say what you say and share what you share with little regard as to its repercussion to your self image…you are more ‘real’…or honest in what you share…therein lies your beauty…therein springs your flower.

We are all ’flowers’…we all possess ’beauty’…if that were not so…then we could never exit the cave and explore the sun…light of our being….

so...basically...I like what you share...how you feel...and you are 'real'...or vulnerable in your sharing.

Now I feel naked. You know when I started here in BM I realized that very little contribution could be made without showing my self plainly. At the end I am not the smarter or wiser but for sure I can add variety and is the least I can do after BM feeding my knowledge hungry soul.
I wish I was stronger enough to be more vulnerable, strange enough I feel That will make me even stronger, not weaker.
Your own beauty is talking on your words Dianah.
Always yours my Lady and as the main female character said in the animation movie "Avatar", "I see you". I hope you´d understand that.
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Dianah
post Feb 14, 2012, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE
Now I feel naked. You know when I started here in BM I realized that very little contribution could be made without showing my self plainly. At the end I am not the smarter or wiser but for sure I can add variety and is the least I can do after BM feeding my knowledge hungry soul.
I wish I was stronger enough to be more vulnerable, strange enough I feel That will make me even stronger, not weaker.
Your own beauty is talking on your words Dianah.
Always yours my Lady and as the

main female character said in the animation movie "Avatar", "I see you". I hope you´d understand that.

I deeply appreciate your honesty…and yes I understand. Thank you
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