BrainMeta'                 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V  1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Who would you be without your knowledge?
PANCHO
post Feb 08, 2012, 06:01 AM
Post #1


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



Who would you be without your knowledge? Do you identify your self with the knowledge about you (knowledge includes awareness) ? Does your knowledge about you change?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dan
post Feb 08, 2012, 06:48 AM
Post #2


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: May 01, 2003
From: Sri Danananda
Member No.: 96



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 08, 2012, 06:01 AM) *

Who would you be without your knowledge? Do you identify your self with the knowledge about you (knowledge includes awareness) ? Does your knowledge about you change?


What do you mean "knowledge includes awareness"? Do you mean "awareness is a form of knowledge" or "to know X is to be aware of X"?

Here's another question:
Who would you be without awareness?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 08, 2012, 09:22 AM
Post #3


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 08, 2012, 06:48 AM) *

What do you mean "knowledge includes awareness"? Do you mean "awareness is a form of knowledge"?


Yes.

QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 08, 2012, 06:48 AM) *

Here's another question:
Who would you be without awareness?


Either or, with the knowledge or awareness, it would be the story you or I make about the self.

Does the self exists without knowledge or awareness? What is it?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
code buttons
post Feb 08, 2012, 09:23 AM
Post #4


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 2450
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
Member No.: 4556



QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 08, 2012, 06:48 AM) *

QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 08, 2012, 06:01 AM) *

Who would you be without your knowledge? Do you identify your self with the knowledge about you (knowledge includes awareness) ? Does your knowledge about you change?


What do you mean "knowledge includes awareness"? Do you mean "awareness is a form of knowledge" or "to know X is to be aware of X"?

To know X is not to be aware of X, I think. Any interaction in the universe after the Big Bang can be considered a product of some form of knowledge. Even the ones that don't fall under the laws of known physics. But Awareness is a richer form of knowledge. My question is, if I'm right, is knowledge possible without awareness? Which would be the same as saying, would all of This exist if I wasn't here?... Gosh! Why do I feel like Roy Batty asking Dr. Tyrell questions all of the sudden, Dan?...

Morphology? Longevity? Incept dates?... LOL!!!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 08, 2012, 09:31 AM
Post #5


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(code buttons @ Feb 08, 2012, 09:23 AM) *

Which would be the same as saying, would all of This exist if I wasn't here?


A plant does not even think yet it exists.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dan
post Feb 09, 2012, 08:53 AM
Post #6


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1908
Joined: May 01, 2003
From: Sri Danananda
Member No.: 96



I tend to differentiate between the objects of awareness and the subject of awareness. I find that there is difficulty with this distinction, with many concluding that the subject of awareness is a thought or idea. I find this to be contradictory, as it implies that the subject of awareness is really just an object of awareness.

What do you believe it means to be a subject of awareness? and how might such a status be affected by the lack or loss of objects of awareness?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 09, 2012, 09:13 AM
Post #7


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 09, 2012, 08:53 AM) *

I tend to differentiate between the objects of awareness and the subject of awareness. I find that there is difficulty with this distinction, with many concluding that the subject of awareness is a thought or idea. I find this to be contradictory, as it implies that the subject of awareness is really just an object of awareness.

What do you believe it means to be a subject of awareness? and how might such a status be affected by the lack or loss of objects of awareness?


Being aware is only a quality. Are you aware when you sleep? Aren't you the same person when you sleep?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Feb 09, 2012, 09:29 AM
Post #8


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



Awareness of awareness itself can change the relative identifications that are built upon the awareness of object.

The awareness of object and identity that is formed around the object can change when thought is directed in a different direction than outward onto the solidifying of the objective experience.

Since our perceptions of object and its experience can change, awareness of object would be relative to the belief system and the particular state of mind and body when determinations are made.

Take the mind inward to observe awareness, and become aware of awareness itself, and what do you have?

What then is awareness and are you separate from it? Who are you if you are not? Does your awareness witness the body and the physical experience, or is it coming directly out of the physical experience to witness the experience? Who or what is creating the physical reality and who determines what the experience of reality should or will be?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 09, 2012, 09:36 AM
Post #9


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 09, 2012, 09:29 AM) *

Who are you if you are not?


What is a plant (non thinking living being) to itself?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Feb 09, 2012, 09:44 AM
Post #10


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 09, 2012, 05:36 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 09, 2012, 09:29 AM) *

Who are you if you are not?


What is a plant (non thinking living being) to itself?

A plant with plant consciousness... aware of its plant-ness. sleep.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 09, 2012, 09:52 AM
Post #11


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



How could a plant tell you about being aware of its life? A plant cannot communicate but it lives. Maybe people who buy meat at the supermarket think that the pig does not suffer because they don't hear the last noise of the pig. Maybe people think that plants do not live because they don't talk.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Feb 09, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #12


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 09, 2012, 05:52 PM) *

How could a plant tell you about being aware of its life? A plant cannot communicate but it lives. Maybe people who buy meat at the supermarket think that the pig does not suffer because they don't hear the last noise of the pig. Maybe people think that plants do not live because they don't talk.
Imagine what a plant could tell you if it could communicate.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...614-plants.html
http://www.livescience.com/1909-plants-com...arn-danger.html
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/apr...baby-boys_x.htm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 11, 2012, 07:33 AM
Post #13


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 09, 2012, 11:55 AM) *


http://www.lifeandlove.tv/video.cfm/cid/2004/vid/1043

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTLgGYHHrb8

http://www.ejpress.org/article/15698

http://falconblanco.com/health/alimentation/jesusdiet.htm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jakare
post Feb 11, 2012, 02:52 PM
Post #14


Demi-God
*****

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Member No.: 32635



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 08, 2012, 03:01 PM) *

Who would you be without your knowledge? Do you identify your self with the knowledge about you (knowledge includes awareness) ? Does your knowledge about you change?

I think without my knowledge but with my awareness intact I would be an empty vessel. Likely I might have the potential of developing another personality that will acummulate his own knowledge, but the person I AM today will no longer exist because I have learned to be myself through several idiosincratic circunstances even forcing some circunstances to reach some learnings.

How exactly the completly lack of awareness can affect a human being? Will He/She learn to behave by simply social cognitive imitation? In that case that person wouldn´t be better than a robot, will He/She? Althought will still have the potential to be aware, unlike robots.

One can say Awareness is the spark that sets fire to the forest of consciousness. Thanks Prometeus...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Trip like I do
post Feb 12, 2012, 03:53 AM
Post #15


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 5149
Joined: Aug 11, 2004
From: Earth^2
Member No.: 3202



nothing but an inanimate object .... it is simply impossible to be some sort of sentient being without having some form of knowledge
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jakare
post Feb 12, 2012, 04:40 AM
Post #16


Demi-God
*****

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 589
Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Member No.: 32635



So then a robot is a sentient being?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Trip like I do
post Feb 12, 2012, 06:04 AM
Post #17


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 5149
Joined: Aug 11, 2004
From: Earth^2
Member No.: 3202



QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 12, 2012, 07:40 AM) *

So then a robot is a sentient being?

not at all.... inanimate object following out instruct knowledge protocols established by a once sentient being
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 13, 2012, 06:10 AM
Post #18


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 11, 2012, 02:52 PM) *

I think without my knowledge but with my awareness intact I would be an empty vessel. Likely I might have the potential of developing another personality that will acummulate his own knowledge, but the person I AM today will no longer exist because I have learned to be myself through several idiosincratic circunstances even forcing some circunstances to reach some learnings.

How exactly the completly lack of awareness can affect a human being? Will He/She learn to behave by simply social cognitive imitation? In that case that person wouldn´t be better than a robot, will He/She? Althought will still have the potential to be aware, unlike robots.

One can say Awareness is the spark that sets fire to the forest of consciousness. Thanks Prometeus...


The verb to be creates an association or link. You are the author of that association. Of the infinite possibilities, you chose how you want to be identified. This in turn tells me how you would like to be seen and what are some of your desires probably caused by literature (emphasis on knowledge or awareness). By reading literature you sought to improved yourself, and maybe you were not happy with what you were before you became aware. Does being aware define a person? How about DNA or personal history?

Are you afraid of letting go and becoming nothing, or being at the same level as for example a plant? Where does the desire to become aware come from?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Feb 13, 2012, 08:11 AM
Post #19


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Feb 13, 2012, 02:10 PM) *

Are you afraid of letting go and becoming nothing, or being at the same level as for example a plant? Where does the desire to become aware come from?

The conditioning of the ego to identify with the material body, and all of the extended conditions that are labeled and assumed to have a certain place outside of the body, includes fear. Often the reasoning of the conditioned ego that precedes the idea, of stepping out of the labeled and organized mass, can lead to a projection of chaos. It is similar to the Flat Earth theory. If you go beyond the edge, you fall off into the unknown, and that unknown is..well.. unknown. The programs of fear can take the unknown to all kinds of emotional dramas.

It can be said that before you popped out of the womb and began your programming, you had awareness, (some people have clear memories of the experience). That awareness had a source that was familiar with the body or the environment that the body entered upon leaving the womb, because it had a hand (so to speak) in planning the future and was not limited to the time and space the ego locks awareness into.
The environment most familiar (at that time within the relative) could be similar to the dream world that you enter with the awareness, upon sleeping.
Who you are without the body is often equated to as the same consciousness that wanders about when the body is sleeping. It was before the body, is during the body, and will be after the body is no longer functioning as the vessel of relative experience. It would not be the same consciousness that is plant consciousness but, it is of the same absolute consciousness, as is all variations of conscious awareness within relative bodies and objects, of time and space.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
Post #20


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



There is social self definition of people. After the industrial revolution and the birth of the social middle class, people started thinking that they were born being nothing (ie. poor), and they had to become somebody by accomplishing some merit. Then the merit became about money. Today's identities revolved around socio-economical status, which links to the knowledge of how to become rich. The idea is that if you are very smart (or with a lot of knowledge) maybe you become richer easier. Thus, if you find that makes you smarter, (like eating the latest pill) then you may become rich easier. All this is what people use now to define themselves. When they meet someone, they want to find out how much money they got to measure who they are.

The awareness definition is new to me and I like it. It is deeper. I like that you are what you already were before (as opposed to become someone). After all, you already are yourself . You always been.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Phi
post Feb 14, 2012, 03:17 PM
Post #21


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1350
Joined: Jul 11, 2008
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 25755



id be blissful
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
code buttons
post Feb 21, 2012, 04:50 PM
Post #22


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 2450
Joined: Oct 05, 2005
Member No.: 4556



QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 09, 2012, 08:53 AM) *

What do you believe it means to be a subject of awareness? and how might such a status be affected by the lack or loss of objects of awareness?

It's confusing! I mean, the subject of awareness has been proven to be potentially as small as an electron, right?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Trip like I do
post Feb 23, 2012, 06:48 AM
Post #23


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 5149
Joined: Aug 11, 2004
From: Earth^2
Member No.: 3202



QUOTE(code buttons @ Feb 21, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Dan @ Feb 09, 2012, 08:53 AM) *

What do you believe it means to be a subject of awareness? and how might such a status be affected by the lack or loss of objects of awareness?

It's confusing! I mean, the subject of awareness has been proven to be potentially as small as an electron, right?

has it? which part of that link talks about that?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Feb 27, 2012, 05:27 AM
Post #24


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



To follow up, I realized that besides the physiological needs of the body, there are tons of cultural addictions (mental) that can make a person unhappy by fooling the person in thinking that hard to get things are needed in order to be happy.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Mar 08, 2012, 06:33 AM
Post #25


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



Lets start from scratch.

You came from one single cell. Your father gave you 23 chromosomes and your mother too (total 46). At fermentation, you gained life.

From one single cell, you multiplied to 50 trillion multipurpose cells. It all happened without your knowledge. Your cells did not ask you for your opinion. Your cells do not listen to your thoughts. Your thoughts are an artificial world you created. But the knowledge contained in one single cell created you. Are your thoughts really that important? Is your awareness that important?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Mar 08, 2012, 08:52 AM
Post #26


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(PANCHO @ Mar 08, 2012, 02:33 PM) *

Lets start from scratch.

You came from one single cell. Your father gave you 23 chromosomes and your mother too (total 46). At fermentation, you gained life.

From one single cell, you multiplied to 50 trillion multipurpose cells. It all happened without your knowledge. Your cells did not ask you for your opinion. Your cells do not listen to your thoughts. Your thoughts are an artificial world you created. But the knowledge contained in one single cell created you. Are your thoughts really that important? Is your awareness that important?

You are making an assumption that the house came first, and then the house created the inhabitants.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Mar 08, 2012, 11:09 AM
Post #27


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 08, 2012, 08:52 AM) *

QUOTE(PANCHO @ Mar 08, 2012, 02:33 PM) *

Lets start from scratch.

You came from one single cell. Your father gave you 23 chromosomes and your mother too (total 46). At fermentation, you gained life.

From one single cell, you multiplied to 50 trillion multipurpose cells. It all happened without your knowledge. Your cells did not ask you for your opinion. Your cells do not listen to your thoughts. Your thoughts are an artificial world you created. But the knowledge contained in one single cell created you. Are your thoughts really that important? Is your awareness that important?

You are making an assumption that the house came first, and then the house created the inhabitants.


Where did the inhabitant come from?
Is your body living without you?
Are you inside your body?
Can you live without your body?
Does your body breathe without your knowledge?
Do you breathe too?
Where did your life come from?
Where did your body come from?
Is the inhabitant just another part of the living body?
Why do you think you have more knowledge than your body?
Why are you better than your body?
Does your body saves you when you gets hurt?
Do you tell it how to be fixed?

Has it ever shut you down without your knowledge because it thought that other things were more important than you? What did you think when you woke up, that it was you who told it to do it?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Mar 08, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #28


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3904
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



The question:"Who are you?" if answered, may answer all of those questions of yours.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Dianah
post Mar 08, 2012, 04:42 PM
Post #29


Demi-God
*****

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 525
Joined: Sep 23, 2003
Member No.: 584



Poncho,

Yes, I agree all happened without knowledge (as we define it). Our cells did not ask for our opinion or listen to our thoughts, they just became (though the direction of desire). BUT…the body was created to house consciousness and to create memory in which to instill the evolution of the ego…in which to become the ‘captain’ of his ship. Thoughts are important, for they are that which define experience in which to beget memory, in which to beget a conscious vehicle of compression…in which to exist within the realms of pure potential CONSCIOUSLY…shaping and begetting a COMPREHENSIVE vehicle. As above, so below.

Awareness and thoughts are very important…well, at least in my ‘book' they are.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PANCHO
post Mar 09, 2012, 05:08 AM
Post #30


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Oct 20, 2011
Member No.: 33686



QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 08, 2012, 11:51 AM) *

The question:"Who are you?" if answered, may answer all of those questions of yours.



What is "to be"?

You can be many things at once. Which one do you chose and why? The politician chooses his ambition, the soldier chooses his courage, and the yogi chooses his mysticism. They all are based on their views and knowledge. Knowledge is relative and only a quality.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th November 2014 - 10:34 PM


Home     |     About     |    Research     |    Forum     |    Feedback  


Copyright © BrainMeta. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use  |  Last Modified Tue Jan 17 2006 12:39 am

Consciousness Expansion · Brain Mapping · Neural Circuits · Connectomics  ·  Neuroscience Forum  ·  Brain Maps Blog