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2timer
post Jan 22, 2012, 02:40 PM
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Hello all!

Just joined this site. excited to expand my knowledge and enhance my mind in the meantime.


I am currently doing 4 months internship and will start career soon after. I needed some mind enhancements to help me achive my goals. I need memory improvement and focus enhancements which have been issue before.

I researched and have read about piracetam so much now that I decided to take it. I been on it for 2 weeks.5 days on 2 days off.

Heres is what I take piracetam 1600mg twice daily. I take 2400 mg choline non-gmo twice daily.

also take 750 mg -650mg -550mg omega oils 3-6-9 twice daily.

5htp -50mg * 2 daily and little passion flower.

Gingko biloba 60mg *2 daily

I take ginseng 850 mg *2 daily. also multiv and vitamen high potency b complex 2*daily. I drink two large coffee as well.



I have seen improvement. but nothing I would say wow. Am I doing something wrong? dosing wrong? etc???
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mban
post Jan 29, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Hello 2timer,

I copied this post from another thread for which I replied to, but I think it relates equally to your own situation. What I describe below works perfectly well for adapting to stressful lives. I am very knowledgeable in this particular area (schooling in neuroscience) and think I could help you out. Notice that I put "dot com" in the links so that I could post this as I have not posted enough to put up full links.


Before we start, you have to realize that no nootropic drug will give you a considerable boost in intelligence. The most nootropics will do is increase your ability to be attentive, concentrate, and recall information (less "tip of the tongue" phenomenon).

From your own list, I would reduce your intake of omega 3-6-9 (our diets have too much omega 6s already), and increase your intake of omega 3's specifically. It may also be advisable to decrease your consumption of coffee to 1 large coffee per day, or 2 small cups of coffee, and instead substitute organic green tea as it provides greater amounts of antioxidants, and a smoother release of caffeine (less peak caffeine jitters).

Here is the text from the other forum thread:

When looking at the brain and human cognition you have to consider a variety of things which increase ability to store, process, and recall information:

1) Cerebral blood flow - Neurons require large portions of our bodily blood flow to function effectively. More blood flow equates to increased oxygenation, which is required for energy formation from the powerhouse of our cells, mitochondria. More blood flow also increases nutrient and protein availability in order to express brain relevant genes and help in the conversion of precursor nutrients into relevant molecules that are required for optimal brain processing.

2) Adequate supply of nutrients required for the formation of neurotransmitters - these include amino acids such as tyrosine (adrenaline/epinephrine, noradrenaline/norepinephrine and dopamine), tryptophan (precursor to serotonin), acetyl-CoA and choline (precursors to acetylcholine formation), etc.

3) A large supply of antioxidants - When parts of your brain are very active then generate large quantities of reactive oxygen species (ROS) which go on to damage cellular proteins, cell membranes, etc. Antioxidants act to "mop up" these ROS and prevent their eventual "brain fog" causing properties.

4) Excitability level - Neurons only send transmission after they have received enough activation in order to "fire" and send on their signal. The most prevalent source of excitation for cerebral cortex neurons is through activation of glutamate channels. This excitation is mainly opposed by GABA and glycine, which effectively blunt the signal as they are inhibitory.

5) Levels of neuronal branching - Neurons receive signals through their dendrites, which are like the arms of a tree. The more interconnections between neurons, the more dendrites there will be, and the more information the system can hold (more connections between concepts are able to be formed).

6) Metabolic health - Neurons, as cells, are required to produce large amounts of ATP (the energy molecule of the cell). More ATP means that they can fire more times without getting as exhausted.

Alright, now that you have a little background letís get in to what to do to boost brain function. Here are the basics first:

A) A general multivitamin (best/cheapest I find is LifeExtension's 2 per day multi's) - Provide you with the general nutrients to manufacture brain chemicals. I buy mine from iherb dot com. You can use my coupon code "DET108" for $5 off if you are a first time customer (if you don't want to use my referral coupon, "BUY123" is the generic one for iherb where you still get $5 off but don't give anyone commission).
cool.gif Get plenty of exercise - While not a nootropic pill per say, this one is one of the best for increasing levels of nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), both of which increase the amount of dendrite branching and increase connections between difficult concepts, which helps with memory and with solving problems.
C) Get AT LEAST 8 hours of sleep a night - helps with keeping neuron energy stores high and promotes larger brain levels of NGF and BDNF.

After you have those ones down pact, here are the supplements/drugs/herbs that will help you out. Most can be bought from iherb dot com or nutrabio dot com (cheapest sources). Take all on an empty stomach. All separate doses should be taken 4-6 hours apart. Do not take less than 4 hours before bed:

D) Coenzyme Q10 + Bioperine - Aids in ATP production in cells. Bioperine, which is usually found combined with CoQ10 helps with absorption of many different nootropics - recommend 100-200mg per day divided between 2 separate doses
E) Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) - Acts as an acetyl donor in the formation of acetylcholine. Helps transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial cell membrane to be used in the production of ATP. Increases receptors for NGF - Take 500mg, divided into 2 equal doses per day
F) Acetyl L Carnitine Arginate (ALCA) - Much of the same purpose as ALCAR, but the additional arginate enables the molecule to interact directly with the NGF receptors which ALCAR increased. - take 100-200mg per day, in 2 separate doses
G) Lion's Mane mushroom - Has a host of benefits including immune system boosting effects. Main effect you are looking for is its ability to stimulate NGF receptors. - Take 2-3 grams per day, in 2-3 divided doses. Cheapest source of this is "fungihealth dot com/affiliate/450", but the bulk 1 lb powder (yes this is an affiliate link, if you don't want to support me at all you can just remove the affiliate portion of the link). Lion's mane can also be purchased from iherb and some other sources on the internet. You want to make sure that the source you buy from uses extracted mycelium, and not only the fruiting body of the mushroom, as the myecilium contains the most active NGF boosting molecules (erinacines).
H) Choline citrate/bitartrate/Alpha-GPC/Etc. - act as the choline donot in the formation of acetylcholine.
I) Ginkgo biloba - Increases cerebral blood flow and acts as a antioxidant. - Use 50-100mg, divided into 2 separate doses
J) Gotu Kola, Rhodiola Rosea, Eleuthero, Brahmi - These ones have pretty complex mechanisms of action, but in short they acts to reduce stress from long study hours, increase attention, act as antioxidants, boost levels of synaptic neurotransmitters or act directly on neurotransmitter receptors. I recommend relatively low doses of these when combined together and when taken with the other supplements on this list. Gotu Kola - 100mg, Rhodiola Rosea - 50mg, Eleuthero - 100mg, Brahmi - 100mg. Divide all of these into 2 separate doses.
K) (Optional) Resveratrol - Increases the number and function of mitochondria within neural cells, helping with metabolic health and increasing levels of ATP. This one is also seen as an anti-aging aid as it increases expression of genes associated with long life (I won't get too much into that here). Take between 50-500mg (based on how much money you have to spend) in 2 divided doses.
L) Omega 3 fatty acids - Help with cell membrane stability, increases ability to concentrate and relieves stress over the long term. - Take up to five 1g capsules per day.


Here is one that you won't hear on most forums: Reduce your usage of piracetam/oxiracetam/etc. The racetams increase coordination between different brain areas, thereby increasing a brain wave pattern called "alpha waves". Sounds good doesn't it??? What most people don't understand is that the brain does its best work (most complex processing of information) when in a "beta wave" state. In contrast to the "beta" name, beta waves are actually of higher frequency than alpha waves. This means that there is less coordination between large sections of brain tissue. This is actually a good thing and I will explain why: Each brain area can be seen as a small parallel processor which is specific for a certain type of information. A small chunk of brain area from the occipital lobe of your brain processes only one aspect of visual information, and nothing else. Now, the racetams force larger brain areas to process info that they were never intended to process. This means that instead of an area of 5 mm cubic processing the equation "5+5=?", you would then have an area of 10 mm cubic processing this same task. As you can gather from this, it would be much better to have 2000 small parallel processors working on separate chunks of info and have a really good system in place to combine the information from the separate processors, then to use very large brain areas to process very simple concepts. In a study, physicists were given piracetam before attempting difficult physics problems; it was found to actually decrease their ability to process complex information (I don't have the reference for this off-hand, but you can look it up on pubmed if you are interested). The alpha waves associated with piracetam are associated with repetitive and moreso automatic tasks. They are really good for concentration if you are doing regular 9-5 jobs, but for intense study sessions, exams and understanding complex material, I would keep their use to a minimum.

Cheers,

Mban
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devilsadvocado
post Feb 03, 2012, 04:46 PM
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mban,

That's the most comprehensive program I've come across so far--albeit, only after two days of research. And I'm very happy to see that it's mostly natural. I'm extremely wary of taking pharmaceuticals. I was prescribed medication for extreme anxiety in high school but I tossed the prescription in the trash. It took me a year, but I overcame my mental health issues the natural way (via getting my shit together, meditation, creating a strict schedule, etc.) I'd like to take the same route in boosting my cognitive power.

Is the program you've described the one you are currently on? How long have you been on it? How long have you been actively involved in any program? What discernible benefits have you experienced? How much are you spending per month?

Thanks if you can answer any of those.
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G Bronson
post Feb 07, 2012, 05:50 PM
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I'm getting a container of piracetam powder and was wondering if i can just mix it in some water or if I have to put it in capsules.
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2cr4zy4u
post Feb 15, 2012, 01:44 AM
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piracetam in water X.X very unpleasant and unbearable.
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5hadow12ogue
post Feb 15, 2012, 01:47 AM
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QUOTE(G Bronson @ Feb 07, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

I'm getting a container of piracetam powder and was wondering if i can just mix it in some water or if I have to put it in capsules.



Piracetam is very bitter, but you can mix it into your water. I have personally mixed mine into my morning coffee on a few occasions. If you end up finding that you just cannot stand the taste, well go to Vitamin Shoppe and buy some blank capsules and start filling them up.

I bought a tub of Piracetam once, and I won't be doing it again. For a variety of reasons the lids are really large and need to be fully closed or your Piracetam will lose potency. A lot of self capsule machines, I bought one that was like a pushing mechanism that when depressed would push the two capsule ends together, are inaccurate in measurements and damage your capsules. Honestly I found that I could capsule them by hand faster than the machine. Lately I've been reading a lot of posts about tubs coming in with the seal slightly open or removed.

I have been getting Neuro Boost (capsulated Piracetam) online for a while, and prefer the capsules over the powder. I don't have to stop to weigh out my piracetam and then mix it into a drink or sit and capsule it, which while sounds like me just being lazy it's more along the line of time constraints. I just grab three or four, take them with my coffee before breakfast and then off to work I go.
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE(G Bronson @ Feb 07, 2012, 05:50 PM) *

I'm getting a container of piracetam powder and was wondering if i can just mix it in some water or if I have to put it in capsules.


piracetam is obscenely bitter. i bought "the capsule machine", "00" gelatin caps, and dessicants (all from amazon). been working like a charm for months now.
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE(2timer @ Jan 22, 2012, 02:40 PM) *

I drink two large coffee as well. [...] I have seen improvement. but nothing I would say wow. Am I doing something wrong? dosing wrong? etc???


<anecdote> personally, caffeine fucks with piracetam. once i began drinking a daily double-shot mocha, piracetam stopped working. for months. i went cold turkey last week, and piracetam's (subtly) back. this is just correlation, but still... beware. (ps i get A LOT more out of piracetam than caffeine, and i've done both for months in isolation and in union) </anecdote>
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G Bronson
post Feb 18, 2012, 04:33 PM
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I don't know if it's the caffeine I'm taking (green or black tea) or what; but I tried adding piracetam to my usual regimine (centrophenoxine b-50 choline taurine gingko inositol) and I feel really brain-dead for a few hours afterward--so I'm going to save my piracetam for every once in a while/never.
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(mban @ Jan 29, 2012, 02:52 PM) *

What most people don't understand is that the brain does its best work (most complex processing of information) when in a "beta wave" state.


could you cite some literature? there's too much of this pseudoscientific correlation-not-causation abuse-of-metaphor stuff. "brain waves" do not map to "brain power". since you're a student of neuroscience, however, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

ps theories aside, piracetam does work, empirically. whether it's an objective double-blind peer-reviewed study, or subjective evalutation of performance, the racetams ride on tidal waves of positive results.
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G Bronson
post Feb 19, 2012, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE(sambocyn @ Feb 18, 2012, 06:11 PM) *

QUOTE(mban @ Jan 29, 2012, 02:52 PM) *

What most people don't understand is that the brain does its best work (most complex processing of information) when in a "beta wave" state.


could you cite some literature? there's too much of this pseudoscientific correlation-not-causation abuse-of-metaphor stuff. "brain waves" do not map to "brain power". since you're a student of neuroscience, however, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

ps theories aside, piracetam does work, empirically. whether it's an objective double-blind peer-reviewed study, or subjective evalutation of performance, the racetams ride on tidal waves of positive results.


Although, I'm obviously not the person you were asking, it seems like I've heard the same thing about certain add medications: they basically make you less creative. I've heard the example that while doing complex math one is more likely to just kind of "bulldoze" one's way through it, as apposed to taking more complex, but shorter, steps.

Just what I've heard. But I can anecdotaly corroborate. While on piracetam and reading a text and taking notes, I am more likely to use quotes and just type out exactly what the text says rather than paraphrase. I also feel like my papers have a more "mechanical" feel to them, as if I'm just listing bullet points rather than writing creatively. Might not mean much but I can believe what he's saying at least.
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2timer
post Feb 26, 2012, 06:05 PM
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Thanks for reply. I meant piracetam. I guess I am smarter now. lol!.

Its been 6 weeks or so. I am starting to get better results. what has improved greatly is my mood. I am more happy now and focused. I have decided to add 500mg * 2 of aniracetam. It has been nice add to my combo. I would say I feel like I am on huge amount of caffeine but my heart is not racing or feeling out of breath. My memory has improved but hoping for bigger effects for memory with aniracetam. I work in a job which is very repetitive but requires massive amount of concentration because peoples health are at stake. I also work in team envornment and getting nervous performing in front of people has been my problem.

Mban- thanks alot. I have saved that in my notes. will be looking to purchase some of those. what would you say is the most important product I must add for now?
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kirbydude
post Mar 03, 2012, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE(5hadow12ogue @ Feb 15, 2012, 01:47 AM) *

QUOTE(G Bronson @ Feb 07, 2012, 07:50 PM) *

I'm getting a container of piracetam powder and was wondering if i can just mix it in some water or if I have to put it in capsules.



Piracetam is very bitter, but you can mix it into your water. I have personally mixed mine into my morning coffee on a few occasions. If you end up finding that you just cannot stand the taste, well go to Vitamin Shoppe and buy some blank capsules and start filling them up.

I bought a tub of Piracetam once, and I won't be doing it again. For a variety of reasons the lids are really large and need to be fully closed or your Piracetam will lose potency. A lot of self capsule machines, I bought one that was like a pushing mechanism that when depressed would push the two capsule ends together, are inaccurate in measurements and damage your capsules. Honestly I found that I could capsule them by hand faster than the machine. Lately I've been reading a lot of posts about tubs coming in with the seal slightly open or removed.

I have been getting Neuro Boost (capsulated Piracetam) online for a while, and prefer the capsules over the powder. I don't have to stop to weigh out my piracetam and then mix it into a drink or sit and capsule it, which while sounds like me just being lazy it's more along the line of time constraints. I just grab three or four, take them with my coffee before breakfast and then off to work I go.



It's understandable that it is difficult finding the time and routine to capsule 4800mg of Piracetam twice a day. Btw, I believe Neuro Boost is from Smart Drugs for Thought right? The amount of money I spend on capsules and Piracetam together adds up together and the cost of Neuro-Boost adds up to the same amount of that. In addition to this, I'm saving my time and patience going through them. It's hard to find a good deal on capsuled Piracetam. I'm just the same with Alpha GPC - It's much easier for me taking 600mg as 600mg capsuled each day. I can say I can't find a great deal on Jarrow Formulas Alpha GPC capped, but it is still worth my time. I'm pretty busy at work most of the time and it's a 8 to 5 job. It's inconvenient to pull out 2 bags and weigh out each supplement individually. It's easy for me to get distracted and to get on a simple routine like this. Plus I make protein shakes here and there and I can't even keep up with that routine itself!
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