BrainMeta'                 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Provigil vs Nuvigil, What are the difference in effects, which is better suited to ...
shinooni
post Jan 17, 2012, 08:39 PM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 17, 2012
Member No.: 33904



Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Cassox
post Jan 20, 2012, 05:48 AM
Post #2


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Dec 18, 2007
Member No.: 15624



Well, I've tried Nuvigil and Adrafinil, but no provigil. I'll tell you my understanding of these with no guarantee of accuracy. Provigil is pretty great stuff overall; however, in 2007 or so the patent expired. Thus Nuvigil was born. It's essentially an enentiopure version of Provigil. A single Provigil is 200mg, while Nuvigil is 150mg. So to boil it down, Nuvigil is Provigil with a few inactive components removed. You get a similar effect at a slightly lower dose.

Adrafinil? It's alright... I guess. It's a pro-drug version of modafinil. I believe one can have a similar effect with a larger dose. I read somewhere it's a bit harder on your friendly neighborhood liver. I preferred Nuvigil overall, but for murky subjective reasons. I just didn't "feel" adrafinil the same, which in reality may be nothing more than a dose inequivalency.

On a side note, Kaiser-permanente participated in a study that indicated caffeine pills were equally effective and tries not to prescribe nuvigil. I think this is really more influenced by economic issues than the welfare of clients... but alas.

So my suggestion for a "stay-awake" stack? Lol. I'll call this the "Idiot stack." I'll tell you mine, although you may have a touch of difficulty getting one or two components and it would more than likely cause you serious harm:

400mg Caffeine initial dose
200mg Caffeine Q3-4 hr
Methylphenidate Hcl 38mg Q12 hr
Armodafinil 150mg Q 12-15hr
Bupropion 150mg Qam and noon
Nicotine patch 14mg Qday
with a racetam and choline source, magnesium, and melatonin

Yes, yes. I have done this. I truly am this much of an idiot. And yes, I actually had prescriptions. Pretty amazing overall in one single modality: attention. While taking this, I could sit down and read a text book cover to cover without effort. You stay attentive to a task. This certainly doesn't mean that I could remember everything I read, but I maintained the ability to take notes and apply memory techniques so it wasn't a waste of time.
On the other hand.... I can't imagine someone doing this for any extended period of time. There is just so much that could go wrong. The Bupropion alone causes people to seize so I'm suprised I didn't with the other compounds mixed in. Lets not even discuss what must have been going on in my liver. How about the heart? Tachycardia and a hypertensive crisis? hmmm.... yeah. Don't even slightly advise this honestly. BUT! Trust me on this one thing: you won't sleep.


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JsMill
post Feb 19, 2012, 11:41 PM
Post #3


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Member No.: 33990



There's really no problem combining methylphenidate and armodafanil (nuvigil). Done all the time with narcoleptic patients. The most worrisome part of your stack is the methylphenidate/caffeine combo, with the added nicotine patch. Surprised it didn't send your blood pressure through the roof. I'd recommend something like a beta-blocker if you're gonna go that route.

Also some concern with buproprion and methylphenidate-- though I'm sure the euphoria is awesome. Methylphenidate is short-acting, at least, vs. adderall, ect.

For anyone else considering this stack-- yes, you'll be able to concentrate. But you run the risk of severe cardiac complications, and I'd wager it's a neurotoxic mix as well (probably not your biggest problem with occasional use-- but frequent use...).

QUOTE(Cassox @ Jan 20, 2012, 05:48 AM) *

Well, I've tried Nuvigil and Adrafinil, but no provigil. I'll tell you my understanding of these with no guarantee of accuracy. Provigil is pretty great stuff overall; however, in 2007 or so the patent expired. Thus Nuvigil was born. It's essentially an enentiopure version of Provigil. A single Provigil is 200mg, while Nuvigil is 150mg. So to boil it down, Nuvigil is Provigil with a few inactive components removed. You get a similar effect at a slightly lower dose.

Adrafinil? It's alright... I guess. It's a pro-drug version of modafinil. I believe one can have a similar effect with a larger dose. I read somewhere it's a bit harder on your friendly neighborhood liver. I preferred Nuvigil overall, but for murky subjective reasons. I just didn't "feel" adrafinil the same, which in reality may be nothing more than a dose inequivalency.

On a side note, Kaiser-permanente participated in a study that indicated caffeine pills were equally effective and tries not to prescribe nuvigil. I think this is really more influenced by economic issues than the welfare of clients... but alas.

So my suggestion for a "stay-awake" stack? Lol. I'll call this the "Idiot stack." I'll tell you mine, although you may have a touch of difficulty getting one or two components and it would more than likely cause you serious harm:

400mg Caffeine initial dose
200mg Caffeine Q3-4 hr
Methylphenidate Hcl 38mg Q12 hr
Armodafinil 150mg Q 12-15hr
Bupropion 150mg Qam and noon
Nicotine patch 14mg Qday
with a racetam and choline source, magnesium, and melatonin

Yes, yes. I have done this. I truly am this much of an idiot. And yes, I actually had prescriptions. Pretty amazing overall in one single modality: attention. While taking this, I could sit down and read a text book cover to cover without effort. You stay attentive to a task. This certainly doesn't mean that I could remember everything I read, but I maintained the ability to take notes and apply memory techniques so it wasn't a waste of time.
On the other hand.... I can't imagine someone doing this for any extended period of time. There is just so much that could go wrong. The Bupropion alone causes people to seize so I'm suprised I didn't with the other compounds mixed in. Lets not even discuss what must have been going on in my liver. How about the heart? Tachycardia and a hypertensive crisis? hmmm.... yeah. Don't even slightly advise this honestly. BUT! Trust me on this one thing: you won't sleep.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JsMill
post Feb 19, 2012, 11:52 PM
Post #4


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
Member No.: 33990



QUOTE(shinooni @ Jan 17, 2012, 08:39 PM) *

Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.


I have taken both, as well as Adrafanil, and there does not seem to be a real difference subjectively in Provigil vs. Nuvigil. As mentioned earlier, Nuvigil is the r-enantiomer (right-handed molecule)-- I think, I'm good at confusing right and left wink.gif-- of Provigil. Provigil is a mix of l and r-enantiomers of modafanil.

There is some evidence that both versions of the molecule are active, but this has not been proven. Nuvigil's molecule is known to be the most active. Nuvigil has a slightly lower side effect incidence-- low enough that it may be random variance. Anecdotally, some patients report one or the other working better for them. Provigil needs to be dosed higher.


So, in my limited opinion, take one or the other. They should be roughly as effective. Provigil is going generic at some manufacturers in April 2012, I believe.

Also, if you have any sort of skin reaction while taking them, STOP IT IMMEDIATELY. It may be a sign of SJS, a serious dermatological disorder. And if dermatological doesn't sound that serious...think your skin sloughing off in a fatal manner. smile.gif

Last note-- I do sleep medicine for a living. 19 hours of sleep is entirely abnormal-- as in, no normal human being without pathology ever needs a daily 19 hours of sleep. You need to see a sleep doctor.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
CPAPgrateful
post Jul 25, 2012, 10:13 AM
Post #5


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 25, 2012
Member No.: 34397



QUOTE(shinooni @ Jan 17, 2012, 10:39 PM) *

Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.


I hope by this point that your sleep issues have been resolved, but, if they have not, I have a story to share with you. I a 46 year old female who, only last year, was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and since have been using a CPAP machine. While the optimal levels have not yet been achieved for me and the doctor is still making adjustments with the CPAP, my life is absolutely 100% better!!

All my life, i.e. since early childhood, I have been considered a champion sleeper! Friends and family were always amused by how much I could sleep (one time I slept for over 72 hours straight!!!). Yet, with all this sleep I still could not stay awake during the day, at school and later at work, driving, or even just sitting chatting with friends. To be honest, I thought that my inability to get up early in the morning was due to a personal laziness and a somewhat superior strength that others had that I didn't possess. I never, ever thought that I had an actual a biological issue with sleep (I would be so exhausted in the mornings getting up for work that I would vomit). Only last year did I speak to my doctor about how much I would sleep, and, as an after thought, he recommended a sleep study.

About a month later I was seeing my doctor again for a non-sleep related issue and, as I was about to leave at the end of my appointment, I commented to him that I had done the sleep study. His response was that I had in fact "hit it out of the park" in terms of results. He told me that I scored 119 on the sleep apnea scale and had Central Sleep Apnea. Ultimately, I was prescribed the CPAP, and have been completely blown away by the results!!!! In my whole life I had never actually woken up in the morning feeling rested and alive!

Essentially. I have spent more than half my life sleeping without getting actual rest! So, if you have not done so far, I encourage you to have your doctor refer you for a sleep study and, hopefully, your life will change the way mine has and you won't waste as much time sleeping.

I hope this helps.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
starfighter
post Aug 03, 2012, 05:49 AM
Post #6


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 03, 2012
Member No.: 34410



So, I am curious, what did you end up doing? Did you try either one (Provigil or Nuvigil) and was it effective? Or, did you go with a different approach? I am in a similar situation and need the best cognitive enhancer I can get. Thanks.




QUOTE(shinooni @ Jan 17, 2012, 11:39 PM) *

Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
BobCl
post Sep 27, 2012, 02:06 PM
Post #7


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 27, 2012
Member No.: 34574



Remember please that "Your Mileage May Vary"!

I've used a CPAP for several years and, particularly after receiving two heart stents, struggled with staying awake during the day. Provigil was first prescribed about six years ago, but I only reluctantly took it when fatigue was particularly bad because there was a "hangover" as it wore off - a vague, achy feeling with headaches. Recently the three year old stash (did I mention a love/hate relationship with the stuff?) finally began running low so the doctor wrote a script for Nuvigil since it's cheaper at the moment (any bets on how long that lasts?)

There's an amazing difference. No after effects, my overall mood is brighter and my concentration is better. These matter because depression and ADD are life-long companions, so it's a three-fer. I still wretch thinking about the cost, but maybe it's worthwhile.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
CharlesD
post Oct 06, 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #8


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 06, 2012
Member No.: 34591



Ive tried both medication and I find provigil to be superior. I think Nuvigil was just a trick to extend the patent life of provigil. Now provigil is off patent you can get a script for generic modafinil for a 3rd of the price.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Exhausted 42
post Feb 26, 2013, 09:29 PM
Post #9


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Member No.: 34957



So I must say, this post reading has been a blast. Today was my first dose of the Nuvigil at 150mg. I was not sleepy, but my body is tired. I would not have posted but I wanted to add to the CPAP conversation. For those that the machine works for it is 100% awesome. I know I have been told. I however have been working since 2000 to get a cpap to work for me. First it was the mask, so I had my jaws reset to make my face more symmetrical, and to open my air way more. Did not help. Then I was blessed to find a hybrid mask this past Oct. Still do not have my sleep apna sufficiently treated. I am currently looking into hypoglycemia and adrenal fatigue as additional cause for my excessive exhaustion.


Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.
[/quote]

I hope by this point that your sleep issues have been resolved, but, if they have not, I have a story to share with you. I a 46 year old female who, only last year, was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and since have been using a CPAP machine. While the optimal levels have not yet been achieved for me and the doctor is still making adjustments with the CPAP, my life is absolutely 100% better!!

All my life, i.e. since early childhood, I have been considered a champion sleeper! Friends and family were always amused by how much I could sleep (one time I slept for over 72 hours straight!!!). Yet, with all this sleep I still could not stay awake during the day, at school and later at work, driving, or even just sitting chatting with friends. To be honest, I thought that my inability to get up early in the morning was due to a personal laziness and a somewhat superior strength that others had that I didn't possess. I never, ever thought that I had an actual a biological issue with sleep (I would be so exhausted in the mornings getting up for work that I would vomit). Only last year did I speak to my doctor about how much I would sleep, and, as an after thought, he recommended a sleep study.

About a month later I was seeing my doctor again for a non-sleep related issue and, as I was about to leave at the end of my appointment, I commented to him that I had done the sleep study. His response was that I had in fact "hit it out of the park" in terms of results. He told me that I scored 119 on the sleep apnea scale and had Central Sleep Apnea. Ultimately, I was prescribed the CPAP, and have been completely blown away by the results!!!! In my whole life I had never actually woken up in the morning feeling rested and alive!

Essentially. I have spent more than half my life sleeping without getting actual rest! So, if you have not done so far, I encourage you to have your doctor refer you for a sleep study and, hopefully, your life will change the way mine has and you won't waste as much time sleeping.

I hope this helps.
[/quote]
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
chargfox
post Jun 28, 2013, 06:09 AM
Post #10


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Jun 28, 2013
Member No.: 35192



Just wanted to say I was reading up on Nuvigil as my doctor prescribed this for me yesterday, and came across this thread.

After about 40 min. of taking it, I was awake without being jittery and I was able to focus and go through the entire day without a 5 Hour Energy drink.

I have been living on those things for quite some time. I've battled depression for several years and after several trial and errors, found that Viibryd was the ticket for my depression. However, I also developed obstructive sleep apnea. I tried the CPAP for over 2 months with absolutely NO noticeable change. I too had issues with the mask for a bit, adjusting the moisture, etc. My sleep doctor then shared my results with me. It appears my sleep apnea only affects me when I roll onto my back. Therefore, instead of a $20/mo. machine, I got a $40 body pillow to keep me from rolling over. I am now dreaming throughout the night.

Another issue is I'm a very light sleeper. I can wake throughout the night and have a hard time going back to sleep. Therefore, the doctor put me on Ambien. Half a pill works for me and I can fall straight back to sleep if I wake to go to the bathroom.

Yet with all that...I'm STILL tired. I can sleep 12 hours on the weekend unless I force myself to get up. I feel I could do with a nap most days. I drink 1 to 2 bottles of 5 Hour Energy a day nearly every day.

I took the Nuvigil yesterday and went the whole day without an energy drink. I've had it again today about 5 hours ago and am alert and more focused than usual. He started me on 150 mg and said if it did not work to take one and a half pills. The one seems to work just fine.


[quote name='Exhausted 42' date='Feb 26, 2013, 09:29 PM' post='122950']
So I must say, this post reading has been a blast. Today was my first dose of the Nuvigil at 150mg. I was not sleepy, but my body is tired. I would not have posted but I wanted to add to the CPAP conversation. For those that the machine works for it is 100% awesome. I know I have been told. I however have been working since 2000 to get a cpap to work for me. First it was the mask, so I had my jaws reset to make my face more symmetrical, and to open my air way more. Did not help. Then I was blessed to find a hybrid mask this past Oct. Still do not have my sleep apna sufficiently treated. I am currently looking into hypoglycemia and adrenal fatigue as additional cause for my excessive exhaustion.


Provigil vs Nuvigil

What are the difference in effects - there seems to be very little open documentation on Nuvigil and how it compares with provigil - I have to soon pull 20 hour days - software development on a day on day off schedule - I already have problems with sleep - needing roughly 19 hours of sleep for a standard 11-12 hour day. So get up at 8am go to bed at 8pm and then don't wake up till 2-3pm the next day. Have extreme trouble getting up at 8am. So now I am seeking the supplement of a cog enhancer. If you guys could even suggest a drug stack.
[/quote]

I hope by this point that your sleep issues have been resolved, but, if they have not, I have a story to share with you. I a 46 year old female who, only last year, was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and since have been using a CPAP machine. While the optimal levels have not yet been achieved for me and the doctor is still making adjustments with the CPAP, my life is absolutely 100% better!!

All my life, i.e. since early childhood, I have been considered a champion sleeper! Friends and family were always amused by how much I could sleep (one time I slept for over 72 hours straight!!!). Yet, with all this sleep I still could not stay awake during the day, at school and later at work, driving, or even just sitting chatting with friends. To be honest, I thought that my inability to get up early in the morning was due to a personal laziness and a somewhat superior strength that others had that I didn't possess. I never, ever thought that I had an actual a biological issue with sleep (I would be so exhausted in the mornings getting up for work that I would vomit). Only last year did I speak to my doctor about how much I would sleep, and, as an after thought, he recommended a sleep study.

About a month later I was seeing my doctor again for a non-sleep related issue and, as I was about to leave at the end of my appointment, I commented to him that I had done the sleep study. His response was that I had in fact "hit it out of the park" in terms of results. He told me that I scored 119 on the sleep apnea scale and had Central Sleep Apnea. Ultimately, I was prescribed the CPAP, and have been completely blown away by the results!!!! In my whole life I had never actually woken up in the morning feeling rested and alive!

Essentially. I have spent more than half my life sleeping without getting actual rest! So, if you have not done so far, I encourage you to have your doctor refer you for a sleep study and, hopefully, your life will change the way mine has and you won't waste as much time sleeping.

I hope this helps.
[/quote]
[/quote]
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Flex
post Jun 28, 2013, 06:26 AM
Post #11


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
From: Bay area CA
Member No.: 5877



Pro-Vigil: leading you toward early death. A vigil will be held in your honor.

Nu-Vigil: A vigil will be held in your honor when you lose your mind (Nu comes from the greek nous, which means mind). More like a mind noose!

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Flex
post Jun 28, 2013, 06:27 AM
Post #12


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1954
Joined: Oct 17, 2006
From: Bay area CA
Member No.: 5877



Sorry to be a smart ass, but it is better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass and kill yourself. If I were you, I would give your doctors the big fuck you and see an addiction medicine specialist to help you get off of everything, so you can build a proper foundation. Better to have nutrition than attrition of the mind.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25th November 2014 - 12:38 PM


Home     |     About     |    Research     |    Forum     |    Feedback  


Copyright BrainMeta. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use  |  Last Modified Tue Jan 17 2006 12:39 am

Consciousness Expansion · Brain Mapping · Neural Circuits · Connectomics  ·  Neuroscience Forum  ·  Brain Maps Blog