BrainMeta'   Connectomics'  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The best nootropic stack
casa861
post Jul 25, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #31


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Member No.: 33898



Gamma waves I thank for his contribution, I am a male of 26 years now.
I also have about twenty kilograms of loss.I want get your opinion on androdrive,how you wrote that you have taken.
I am able to take it, but first I want to ask you questions:
How significantly increases memory? Examples?
As it increases concentration and learning ability?
How long before you experience these benefits?
But yeah, you're right I want to take drugs that I do in a short time effect, because of time issues .I have problems with the university and the only way to solve my problems and to have a substance or substances that do almost the miracle ......
I'm in trouble with the university .... :-(
I tried doing a search for book reviews on the web, dell'androdrive v3 but in the reviews I've read in the comments I have not noticed people talking about powerful effects on cognitive ..... I would not want to end the only person feel these effects has been to you .......??
Forgive me in advance if I question your good faith is that I will not make mistakes.
p.s. But my card do you think that is dangerous or useless?
thanks in advance
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Gamma Waves
post Jul 26, 2012, 05:51 AM
Post #32


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Jul 01, 2012
Member No.: 34351



QUOTE(casa861 @ Jul 25, 2012, 02:07 PM) *

Gamma waves I thank for his contribution, I am a male of 26 years now.
I also have about twenty kilograms of loss.I want get your opinion on androdrive,how you wrote that you have taken.
I am able to take it, but first I want to ask you questions:
How significantly increases memory? Examples?
As it increases concentration and learning ability?
How long before you experience these benefits?
But yeah, you're right I want to take drugs that I do in a short time effect, because of time issues .I have problems with the university and the only way to solve my problems and to have a substance or substances that do almost the miracle ......
I'm in trouble with the university .... :-(
I tried doing a search for book reviews on the web, dell'androdrive v3 but in the reviews I've read in the comments I have not noticed people talking about powerful effects on cognitive ..... I would not want to end the only person feel these effects has been to you .......??
Forgive me in advance if I question your good faith is that I will not make mistakes.
p.s. But my card do you think that is dangerous or useless?
thanks in advance


casa,

First, my decisions to try something like AD were based on forum discussions with people I'd known for several years, and I felt they were good observers and had integrity in what they reported. I had observed how accurate the information I had received from these people over time. I used AD to learn computer related analytical stuff that does not really have strong interest for me, but I needed to learn new information to retain a job. This is like school is for most people, learning information that is not exciting to get results that are needed for success. I used it for 8 weeks than quit as I had achieved my goals. That was months ago.

So my information as to the safety of AD came from a number of people that I'd learned to trust for accurate information time after time. You don't know those people and have no long-term past with me. The DHEA in AD has been made so that it moves out of the body toward the later part of every day, and it allows your body to normalize itself every day. That's why it is to be taken only once per day, so the body can recover toward the end of each day. There are hardly any traces of use in the blood after just 2.5 to 3 days after you stop using it. I am into working out hard for years, but this is the only steriod I've ever used, and I would never touch most of that stuff with a long pole as people say. I will probably only use AD about once per year.

Second, AD is not that important to me, as I ordinarily use racetams like Aniracetam to do what I want. What I usually want is more of an overview or insight perspective of everything. This takes longer, and is not efficient, but is much more fun and interesting approach to learning. I have to be really interested in the subjects in order to use the racetam approach. Adding stuff like lion's mane and some of the other support supplements that nban recommended is an excellent idea.

Even if you decide to use something like AD, you can only use it for maximum of one semester. After that you should stay away for at least four months. So if you use it, the next semester you woud have to use something else. It is my experience that it works pretty well for learning material that ordinarily half bores me, but that I have to learn for success. It improves focus and attention or Drive and if you improve those you get improved medium term memory for passing tests or doing long papers. The increased concentration starts on the first day but does not reach full strength of several days, so it's not like amphetamines which hit you fully within a half hour. There is no Hollywood drug like NZT or the fictional drug in the movie "Limitless."

You don't have the same circle of discussion group or forum group people that I know. The best I can tell you is to go out on Primordial Performance or the website that has the stuff and lurk for a while on their discussion groups, then sign up and ask questions about the noot qualities of AD. AD has it's own discussion threads. Most of the people on that site though will talk about it's weight loss while retaining muscle and strength abilities, and how safe it is compared to most steriods, and they stack it with stronger stuff to get fairly quick weight loss. AD is a very, very mild steroid, and some hardcore muscleheads almost laugh at it, and suggest it's not really a true steroid. I learned about it from other forums, and only used the info on PP as a backup, as it is hard to trust info from a forum attached to people who sell a product.

If you are worried about negative side effects, JUST DON'T GO THERE, and take the long-term approach with racetams and backup supplements that produce more NGF and NBGF. Take time and figure out what you are truly interested in and work slowly at learning it with wide, very wide searches in all of the related fields to your main interests. If you are woried about the side effects of AD, you should be even a dozen times more woried about the side effects of the amphetamines, ADD, and narcolepsy drugs used to get work done, as they all have extremely negative effects.

I want to say something else. University studies overwhelm many, many students. If you find that you can't make it through this time it doesn't mean you are not a good learner. Even if you are successful this time make a list of all the things you are really interested in doing as well as studying. What attracts you? Move toward your interests and passions to catch fire. That's a bit of a cliche, but it's true. You don't have to know who you are, but you do have to have some idea of what really sparks your attention.

I wish you the best. I only came back to answer your questions. BTW, I'm learning Spanish. I have plenty of people to practice with now, and don't want to miss this opportunity.

Good will to you casa!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
deeptrancenow
post Aug 09, 2012, 05:43 AM
Post #33


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Member No.: 34424



QUOTE(alisha99 @ Jul 20, 2012, 01:08 AM) *

My stack:

Piracetam- 800mg one time or twice in a day.
Deprenyl- 15mg to 30mg per day.


Wow! I've been taking 5 mg of Deprenyl a day, and on extremely rare occasions 10 mg and I'm curious how much different do you feel when you take 30 mg per day - and do you take 15 - 30 mg every day - at once or in divided doses?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
deeptrancenow
post Aug 09, 2012, 05:58 AM
Post #34


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Member No.: 34424



I like Deprenyl - I take only 5 mg a day - and not every day.

I took occasionally Piracetam and tried Oxyracetam, and feel perhaps the most noticeable difference with Pramiracetam.

Years ago I was taking a stack with Piracetam, Lucidril and Hydergine, but these days tend to take a selection of supplements already mixed together in a formula like Higher Mind by Source Naturals. That one contains Gotu Kola, Gingko, Bacopa, DMAE, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Phosphatidylserine, Eleuthero, Vinpocetine, Huperzine and whole host of other ingredients including some that I find quite relaxing like GABA, Ashwagandha, and Magnesium.

I have started to experiment with Huperzine relatively recently and what I've noticed the most from the Higher Mind formula and from Huperzine is way better recall.

There is another combination that I very much like Choline Cocktail II which works quite energizing effect.

I do also take Rhodiola and TMG or SAMe, CoQ10 and other antioxidants.

And just few days ago I started to experiment with Jarrow's Alpha GPC and am still deciding what effect that has.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Neuroshark
post Aug 18, 2012, 12:25 PM
Post #35


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Member No.: 34437



QUOTE(casa861 @ Jan 17, 2012, 07:29 AM) *

Hi, I wanted to ask you if you do not mind, if you could recommend a good nootropic stack?
My situation is this:
I'm 25 years old, tall 175 cm and weight 100 Kg (230pound),I'm an engineering student.
I need a stack that would make me give my best in terms of concentration, memory, intelligence etc.
During this time I will have to face many tests, and most likely will go to a nervous breakdown and I'll be in a state of anxiety.
Half of these tests are mostly based on knowledge, while the other half of the more complex problem solving.
I state that I have already used the piracetam (2400 mg daily) and choline bitrate (700mg).
You could list a stack perfect for my problem?
Thank you for your time.



Epiphany D1 is a new nootropic stack offered by Cerebral Health. It contains both Aniracetam and Oxiracetam. I've used this stack for a while and can't enough of it. Many others have had the same result. The added Piracetam in your regimen should make for a great stack my friend. I believe Cerebral Health may be carrying Piracetam Capsules again in the near future. I also heard something about Pramiracetam coming back as well.

Hope this helps.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
RealKore
post Aug 31, 2012, 08:15 PM
Post #36


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 31, 2012
Member No.: 34488



Thanks for all the great information in this thread. I take oxiracetam and a lot of supplements, confirms I am on the right track for dealing with ADHD while studying. Some of you have mentioned anxiety, and being overwhelmed while studying. Whether you have ADHD or not, E-EPA can help with these, and many other health conditions. E-EPA is processed from fish oil to remove DHA and impurities and has an ethyl ester molecule added so can cross blood brain barrier easily. DHA is removed as it competes with EPA for absorption, and DHA can be stored in the body while EPA isn't and needs to be replenished regularly. Extra EPA is used in all mood disorders so can quickly become depleted. I take E-EPA and it has been fantastic for dealing with anxiety, I feel calm and can focus in situations where I would previously have been unable to function with anxiety or being overwhelmed. If my body needs extra EPA above the amount I regularly take, I take extra E-EPA, it's only fish oil. There is good info and references to studies on E-EPA at Vegepa dot com website. A cheaper product is Dr Toleron's E-EPA available online from many sellers.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
erick
post Sep 02, 2012, 07:17 AM
Post #37


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 29, 2012
Member No.: 34403



Guys, just don't forget to intake some source of antioxidants for the brain.
I was reading somewhere else about how important it is to get better results with stacks that use racetams or another nootropics.
By myself, I start to take vitamin C, E, B12 beyond a few other complements. Green tea is a good choice as well
Just saying. wink.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jessica T
post Oct 25, 2012, 06:27 AM
Post #38


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Oct 25, 2012
Member No.: 34645



The only racetams I have used are Piracetam and Phenibut occasionally. I've heard some really good things about Noopept, a new racetam nootropic thats supposed to be 1000x more potent than Piracetam. I havent found any dangers yet. Anyone tried it? Was thinking about grabing some from Advance Nootropics.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Georgeuk
post Nov 03, 2012, 04:59 AM
Post #39


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 03, 2012
Member No.: 34669



QUOTE(mban @ Feb 28, 2012, 10:38 PM) *

ncbi.nlm.nih dot gov/pubmed/2641481

sciencedirect dot com /science/article/pii/S0167876099000446

ncbi.nlm.nih dot gov /pubmed/8787170

sciencedirect dot com/science/article/pii/001346949390007I


My analysis was that piracetam decreases global complexity, thereby promoting an "alert, but relaxed" state which is consistent with the boost in alpha frequencies. That being said, a shift towards this state would be beneficial to those who have abnormal brain synchronization, such as those with schizophrenia, ADHD, dyslexia, or with advanced aging. Piracetam seems to interact with cell membranes causing changes in membrane fluidity, as well as changes in the receptor proportions found in cell membranes, which is beneficial to those who require it.

The brain is a complex organ which requires not only alpha or beta wave synchronization between neuronal subunits, but requires the correct combination of theta, alpha, beta, and omega frequency oscillations in order to function optimally and allow for the "binding" of information into a coherent whole. As stated above, the increase in alpha waves and decrease in global complexity associated with piracetam usage is perfectly fine for moreso automatic tasks that require concentration and accuracy when repeated consecutively, but I would not personally take it when I am required to do my best work. Notice that I am targeting the usage of piracetam to my own situation (being young), and therefore the use of piracetam will vary based on age and cognitive status.

Notice also that no studies that I am aware of have demonstrated significant increases in cognitive ability, apart from slight increases in verbal fluency, on the first day of testing for young/healthy subjects. For me to spend my money on this substance as a cognitive enhancer, I would need specific proof of increased cognitive ability tested from all domains OR that it allows for increased duration of mental effort at a high capacity.

All of this being said, piracetam still shows general health benefits, which I am aware of, and shows extremely low toxicity even at high doses, so there is relatively little stopping a person from trying it to see if it benefits them in some way.

If you find an article on general cognitive ability change in healthy/young subjects taking piracetam, point it out to me and I will take a look.

Cheers,

Mban


Hey mban, in this quote you said piracetam may help people with abnormal brain synchronisation, I present a case study early adult male, mild cerebral palsy from birth caused right side hemiplegia .MRI revealed trauma on the left brain consistent with a stroke.

Medical opinion stated the young brain would adapt its pathways of communication to compensate for damage present. Issues with concentration, realising logic in long term situations and other left brain qualities have arisen.
By this time the brain may be hard wired, but could piracetam or other similar supplementally drugs help?

Given medical opinion states they have done everything possible, hence to not write off this case in reference to their physician because that has already been explored.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Almighty
post Nov 03, 2012, 06:32 AM
Post #40


Aspiring
**

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Oct 06, 2012
Member No.: 34593



could someone advise what i need to do my order still has not arrived its now over a month
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Nov 03, 2012, 08:35 AM
Post #41


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(Georgeuk @ Nov 03, 2012, 06:59 AM) *

Hey mban, in this quote you said piracetam may help people with abnormal brain synchronisation, I present a case study early adult male, mild cerebral palsy from birth caused right side hemiplegia .MRI revealed trauma on the left brain consistent with a stroke.

Medical opinion stated the young brain would adapt its pathways of communication to compensate for damage present. Issues with concentration, realising logic in long term situations and other left brain qualities have arisen.
By this time the brain may be hard wired, but could piracetam or other similar supplementally drugs help?

Given medical opinion states they have done everything possible, hence to not write off this case in reference to their physician because that has already been explored.


Hi Georgeuk,

Stroke is a tough one as there is currently no specific therapeutics that can repair the necrotic brain tissue within the "core" area of cells damaged by stroke. The best that you can do at this point is promote compensatory behaviors and thought patterns which may aid in restructuring the remaining brain tissue to a certain degree.

The first things that you should assure is that the individual follows a proper and healthy diet, and may benefit from a good all purpose multivitamin. If you are having trouble fitting green foods into the picture, you may want to look into buying up to a kilogram of Chlorella (found on iHerb), which I personally mix a teaspoon with water to drink everyday.

Further, if the individual has difficulty with getting to sleep or staying asleep during the night, you may want to invest in 300-600mcg (0.3-0.6mg) extended release melatonin tablets that they would take one hour prior to going to bed.

Finally, one of the most important things for helping with plasticity is exercise that is vigorous enough to cause sweating for at least 20-30 mins each day.

As far as supplements go, no supplement will replace lost brain tissue. Researchers are currently looking into using stem cells to replace lost tissue, but that is still a long ways off. Right now, supplements to promote plasticity and proper function of the remaining brain tissue include Omega 3 oils, CoQ10, acetyl-L-carnitine, a choline source (e.g. citicoline), taurine and some general antioxidants, such as astaxanthin and alpha-lipoic-acid. You may also consider low dose lithium orotate to help with neuronal survival of remaining brain tissue as well as to promote a calm, stable mood. 10-20mg of elemental lithium from lithium orotate should be plenty (typical psychiatric doses of lithium are greater than 300mg, but that high of a dose is unnecessary if there is no mood disorder). Tablets of lithium orotate that you can get from places like iHerb, Swanson, etc. will have ~5mg of elemental lithium per tablet, so 2-4 tablets per day is plenty. As always, make sure to consult a doctor if taking any other medications at the same time as using any of these supplements.

Piracetam could help with some aspects of cognition due to its effect on cell membrane fluidity, but don't expect too much from it; alot of the self-reports that you read on it are placebo effect.

Let me know if you have any more questions,

Mban

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Georgeuk
post Nov 03, 2012, 10:01 AM
Post #42


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 03, 2012
Member No.: 34669



QUOTE(mban @ Nov 03, 2012, 04:35 PM) *


Piracetam could help with some aspects of cognition due to its effect on cell membrane fluidity, but don't expect too much from it; alot of the self-reports that you read on it are placebo effect.

Let me know if you have any more questions,

Mban


Thank you mban for the detailed response :-),
Of course regeneration of damaged brain tissue is not possible, discounting the damaged side now I want to know how to make the brain matter available more efficient hence counteracting the effect of the damaged tissue, could a method of promoting beta brain wave activity improve efficiency? In relation to your first post.
This method would directly oppose the use of piracetam because as you pointed out piracetam promotes alpha brain waves, the brain state cats are always in XD

I can see our conclusions becoming increasingly convoluted, exaserbated by the placebo effect which I am very conscious of when reading human experiences on medical subjects and experiences.

Also, to be clear the case study has no personality, sleeping, mood or any other disorders and despite the hemiplegia does exercise as described
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Nov 03, 2012, 11:17 AM
Post #43


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(Georgeuk @ Nov 03, 2012, 12:01 PM) *

I want to know how to make the brain matter available more efficient hence counteracting the effect of the damaged tissue, could a method of promoting beta brain wave activity improve efficiency? In relation to your first post.
This method would directly oppose the use of piracetam because as you pointed out piracetam promotes alpha brain waves, the brain state cats are always in XD

I can see our conclusions becoming increasingly convoluted, exaserbated by the placebo effect which I am very conscious of when reading human experiences on medical subjects and experiences.

Also, to be clear the case study has no personality, sleeping, mood or any other disorders and despite the hemiplegia does exercise as described


Promoting beta/high alpha MAY increase the processing efficiency of the remaining tissue, but there are several considerations. The main problem that will be faced is the complexity of adjusting global measures of processing, without causing adverse effects. In my view of why piracetam has shown efficacy in several studies on brain damage is due to the "normalization" of brain activity towards a more uniform state (I.e. a patient who had a stroke may present with cyclical variability in how their neural tissue is processing information, such that at any given moment localized populations of neurons may take on slower, more coordinated activity, thereby promoting an overall theta/delta global brain wave state which is not conducive to logical or efficient thought patterns. At other times, the patient may fluctuate into periods of completely un-coordinated neuronal firing, appearing as noisy alpha/beta frequency oscillation on an EEG, which again is a state which may increase arousal and physical activity, but does not allow for a large degree of concentration or attentional direction). Piracetam is though to promote a shift towards the intermediate alpha frequency oscillations irrespective of starting frequency; such that those with un-coordinated noisy beta oscillations as well as those with slower, drowsy theta/delta oscillations may benefit from a more sustained alpha brain wave pattern when awake. Although this state may not be "optimal", it may be better than the state of high variability/fluctuations.

Therefore, if the case study in question has frequent variability in their brain patterns, indicative of loss of brain area co-ordination and reciprocal connections between neocortex and lower brain structures, then piracetam may help to a small degree in promoting a more uniform brain state and help with concentration and logical thinking. Instead, if reciprocal connections remain between lower brain areas which normally regulate wakefulness and attention, and higher neocortical neuronal "units" or "groups", then promotion of efficient beta/gamma oscillatory behavior is preferred.

If it is unknown which of these is the case, a course of action could be to try cycling the piracetam on and off. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, and note any behavioral/cognitive changes during the on period vs. the off period. If you wanted to promote higher frequency beta or gamma oscillations, I would suggest using low dose choline precursors (e.g. citicoline), which may augment cholinergic pathways involved in wakefulness and concentration.

Of course, all of this is a gross oversimplification of the millions of signalling molecule, receptor, structural, and cellular changes that occur as a result of stroke/cerebral palsy. To provide excellent treatment for each particular case and maximize compensatory potential the medical community would have to know the specific changes that have occurred in each particular patient and formulate a treatment plan specific to that patient (which is too costly at this point for the medical system).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Georgeuk
post Nov 03, 2012, 04:57 PM
Post #44


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Nov 03, 2012
Member No.: 34669



QUOTE(mban @ Nov 03, 2012, 07:17 PM) *


Of course, all of this is a gross oversimplification of the millions of signalling molecule, receptor, structural, and cellular changes that occur as a result of stroke/cerebral palsy. To provide excellent treatment for each particular case and maximize compensatory potential the medical community would have to know the specific changes that have occurred in each particular patient and formulate a treatment plan specific to that patient (which is too costly at this point for the medical system).


I have found that when discussing biology or medical scenarios, oversimplification is an almost unavoidable occurrence purely because of the nature of the problems that are presented and the detail needed for a full thorough explanation would consume a lifetime to achieve perfection in exact explanation.

Nevertheless you have explained your points effectively and allowed for at least basic comprehension, even with it being a gross oversimplification. Thank you very much mban although I think it would be difficult to arrange an appointment with a neurologist let alone requesting to have an EEG or follow up MRI done, for obvious reasons. Any advice on how to medically justify these tests would be greatly appreciated.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
crazyAndroid
post Dec 11, 2012, 01:03 PM
Post #45


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 11, 2012
Member No.: 34749



QUOTE(mban @ Jan 28, 2012, 11:43 AM) *

D) Coenzyme Q10 + Bioperine - Aids in ATP production in cells. Bioperine, which is usually found combined with CoQ10 helps with absorption of many different nootropics - recommend 100-200mg per day divided between 2 separate doses
E) Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) - Acts as an acetyl donor in the formation of acetylcholine. Helps transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial cell membrane to be used in the production of ATP. Increases receptors for NGF - Take 500mg, divided into 2 equal doses per day
F) Acetyl L Carnitine Arginate (ALCA) - Much of the same purpose as ALCAR, but the additional arginate enables the molecule to interact directly with the NGF receptors which ALCAR increased. - take 100-200mg per day, in 2 separate doses
G) Lion's Mane mushroom - Has a host of benefits including immune system boosting effects. Main effect you are looking for is its ability to stimulate NGF receptors. - Take 2-3 grams per day, in 2-3 divided doses. Cheapest source of this is "fungihealth dot com/affiliate/450", but the bulk 1 lb powder (yes this is an affiliate link, if you don't want to support me at all you can just remove the affiliate portion of the link). Lion's mane can also be purchased from iherb and some other sources on the internet. You want to make sure that the source you buy from uses extracted mycelium, and not only the fruiting body of the mushroom, as the myecilium contains the most active NGF boosting molecules (erinacines).
H) Choline citrate/bitartrate/Alpha-GPC/Etc. - act as the choline donor in the formation of acetylcholine - take up to 500mg per day, divided into 2 doses
I) Ginkgo biloba - Increases cerebral blood flow and acts as a antioxidant. - Use 50-100mg, divided into 2 separate doses
J) Gotu Kola, Rhodiola Rosea, Eleuthero, Brahmi - These ones have pretty complex mechanisms of action, but in short they acts to reduce stress from long study hours, increase attention, act as antioxidants, boost levels of synaptic neurotransmitters or act directly on neurotransmitter receptors. I recommend relatively low doses of these when combined together and when taken with the other supplements on this list. Gotu Kola - 100mg, Rhodiola Rosea - 50mg, Eleuthero - 100mg, Brahmi - 100mg. Divide all of these into 2 separate doses.
K) (Optional) Resveratrol - Increases the number and function of mitochondria within neural cells, helping with metabolic health and increasing levels of ATP. This one is also seen as an anti-aging aid as it increases expression of genes associated with long life (I won't get too much into that here). Take between 50-500mg (based on how much money you have to spend) in 2 divided doses.
L) Omega 3 fatty acids - Help with cell membrane stability, increases ability to concentrate and relieves stress over the long term. - Take up to five 1g capsules per day.


Has anyone tried out this stack, I am tempted to buy these ingredients, but I come to close to 400$ (most of the quantities should last for almost a year though).
I like your explanations, although the mechanism of action for most of these substances may still be highly debatable. I'm new to nootropics, and I am wondering about those stacks containing dozens of substances. How do you know that some of them are not just placebos (did you try out the stack by eliminating one of the components for a while and noticed a difference?), or maybe some of them have reduntant actions and one of them could be replaced by a higher dose of the cheaper substance etc...
It seems to me that inevitably a lot of voodoo science is going on here.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Dec 11, 2012, 02:08 PM
Post #46


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(crazyAndroid @ Dec 11, 2012, 03:03 PM) *

Has anyone tried out this stack, I am tempted to buy these ingredients, but I come to close to 400$ (most of the quantities should last for almost a year though).
I like your explanations, although the mechanism of action for most of these substances may still be highly debatable. I'm new to nootropics, and I am wondering about those stacks containing dozens of substances. How do you know that some of them are not just placebos (did you try out the stack by eliminating one of the components for a while and noticed a difference?), or maybe some of them have reduntant actions and one of them could be replaced by a higher dose of the cheaper substance etc...
It seems to me that inevitably a lot of voodoo science is going on here.


Hey CrazyAndroid,

You are 100% right. I structured this stack as being moreso directed towards individuals such as myself, who have a good amount of expendable income to use on supplements.

If you are looking for purely nootropic benefits, many elements of that stack will only give very marginal improvements. I.e. a supplement like coenzymeQ and Lion's Mane may each give only 1-2% boosts in energy/motivation/nootropic benefit; many of them combined would be needed to really notice much of an increase in cognitive ability.

If you are trying to save money, I would stick with a very basic stack:
-Multivitamin
-Omega 3 Oil
-Choline (100-300mg per day)
-Acetyl L-Carnitine (300-1000mg per day)
-And when you get very stressed: Rhodiola Rosea (250-750mg per day)

Should be less than $100 per year ($0.27 per day)

And as always, exercise, proper diet, and getting enough sleep are your best nootropics...

-mban
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
crazyAndroid
post Dec 15, 2012, 08:47 AM
Post #47


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 11, 2012
Member No.: 34749



QUOTE(mban @ Dec 11, 2012, 02:08 PM) *

QUOTE(crazyAndroid @ Dec 11, 2012, 03:03 PM) *

Has anyone tried out this stack, I am tempted to buy these ingredients, but I come to close to 400$ (most of the quantities should last for almost a year though).
I like your explanations, although the mechanism of action for most of these substances may still be highly debatable. I'm new to nootropics, and I am wondering about those stacks containing dozens of substances. How do you know that some of them are not just placebos (did you try out the stack by eliminating one of the components for a while and noticed a difference?), or maybe some of them have reduntant actions and one of them could be replaced by a higher dose of the cheaper substance etc...
It seems to me that inevitably a lot of voodoo science is going on here.


Hey CrazyAndroid,

You are 100% right. I structured this stack as being moreso directed towards individuals such as myself, who have a good amount of expendable income to use on supplements.

If you are looking for purely nootropic benefits, many elements of that stack will only give very marginal improvements. I.e. a supplement like coenzymeQ and Lion's Mane may each give only 1-2% boosts in energy/motivation/nootropic benefit; many of them combined would be needed to really notice much of an increase in cognitive ability.

If you are trying to save money, I would stick with a very basic stack:
-Multivitamin
-Omega 3 Oil
-Choline (100-300mg per day)
-Acetyl L-Carnitine (300-1000mg per day)
-And when you get very stressed: Rhodiola Rosea (250-750mg per day)

Should be less than $100 per year ($0.27 per day)

And as always, exercise, proper diet, and getting enough sleep are your best nootropics...

-mban


Thanks mban,

I've already started using most of the ingredients of your main stack.
But I have some more questions:
-Why don't you have any B vitamins in your stack? I'd like to add Sulbutiamine or Pyrinitol unless their mechanisms of action are already covered by something else.. (in this newby guide, vitamins B1/3/6 getting a lot of attention: longecity org/forum/topic/36691-ten-months-of-research-condensed-a-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics/ )

-What do you think of Noopept? It's just fancy new and apparently 1000 times stronger than piracetam. I know you don't like racetams, but if I had to pick one, I think noopept would be the best choice (also for economical reasons, needs small dosage).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Dec 15, 2012, 12:20 PM
Post #48


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(crazyAndroid @ Dec 15, 2012, 09:47 AM) *

Thanks mban,

I've already started using most of the ingredients of your main stack.
But I have some more questions:
-Why don't you have any B vitamins in your stack? I'd like to add Sulbutiamine or Pyrinitol unless their mechanisms of action are already covered by something else.. (in this newby guide, vitamins B1/3/6 getting a lot of attention: longecity org/forum/topic/36691-ten-months-of-research-condensed-a-total-newbies-guide-to-nootropics/ )

-What do you think of Noopept? It's just fancy new and apparently 1000 times stronger than piracetam. I know you don't like racetams, but if I had to pick one, I think noopept would be the best choice (also for economical reasons, needs small dosage).


I'll start with your question on Noopept: I myself have taken it and found that at low doses (10-20mg) it really doesn't affect my cognitive ability (either pos or neg). At higher doses (30-50mg per day) I found it to actually decrease my ability to work with and process information, mainly due to a decrease in working memory capacity. Its mechanism of action may speak to these results: It acts as an allosteric AMPA receptor agonist, but also acts to inhibit Ca2+ gated K+ channels as well as voltage gated Ca2+ and K+ channels. This means that Ca2+ that would enter through NMDA channels would potentially sit around longer, and act as a stronger intracellular signal. This may lead to Noopept having memory boosting properties. The problem is that K+ channel activation is needed to truncate the action potential duration down to a reasonable length of time such that signals can be repeated in quick succession and be processed as independent (I.e. If a pre-synaptic neuron activates the post-synaptic neuron, and the post-synaptic neuron then has an internal signal lasting for 100ms, then if the pre-synaptic neuron tries to send a second signal to the post-synaptic neuron within that time period the intracellular cascade within the post-synaptic neuron will be boosted, instead of just taken as a second signal). Within the nervous system there is a fine balance of the amount of neural activation that you want for each pre-synaptic signal and how long you want the post-synaptic signal to last. Modification of these properties with Noopept may lead to increased memory formation and potentially better sensory processing in those who have a particular brain physiology that it works well with (everybody has slight differences in the inner-workings of their brain), but for others it may have either no effect, or negative effects on their ability to process information in a well rounded way.

O, and that 1000X stronger bit is a load of crap. The two compounds have completely different modes of action, so they really can't be compared. It would be like comparing deprenyl to cocaine and saying that cocaine is X times stronger at boosting dopamine levels than deprenyl, when in reality those two compounds are worlds apart in how they exert their effects. Noopept is not even a racetam, as it does not contain the pyrrolidone ring structure characteristic of the racetams.

If you find a good supplier, I would say give it a try if you want, but don't go over 30-50mg per day, and don't expect a large change in cognitive ability.

Pyrinitol has been linked to liver cholestatic hepatitis and some other side effects such as allergic reactions and photosensitivity. It is essentially a molecule composed of vitamin B6 molecules, so I thought why bother. It may have some cognition boosting effects, but I don't think I'll risk it.

I haven't done enough research on sulbutiamine to speculate at this point. It is a thiamine (vit B1) derivative tho, so I am wondering how much of its effect is mediated via breakdown into thiamine...not sure.

In any case, I get more than enough vit B6 and B1 in my diet and with my multivitamins, so I'm not too pushed to purchase the above two.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Anne`s fine
post Dec 18, 2012, 07:28 PM
Post #49


Aspiring
**

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Nov 21, 2012
Member No.: 34715



i know little about the stack you guys are talking about so that i can not help with this.
and maybe the only thing i can do is to introduce good website for nootropics.

http://www.sunnootropic.com/lang-en/67-vinpocetine-cas-42971-09-5.html ://http://www.sunnootropic.com/lang-en...2971-09-5.html
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
crazyAndroid
post Dec 22, 2012, 05:01 AM
Post #50


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 11, 2012
Member No.: 34749



QUOTE(mban @ Jan 28, 2012, 11:43 AM) *

Hello casa861,

This is my first post in this forum but I am very knowledgeable in this particular area (schooling in neuroscience) and think I could help you out. Notice that I put "dot com" in the links so that I could post this as it is my first time posting in this forum.

When looking at the brain and human memory you have to consider a variety of things which increase ability to store, process, and recall information:

1) Cerebral blood flow - Neurons require large portions of our bodily blood flow to function effectively. More blood flow equates to increased oxygenation, which is required for energy formation from the powerhouse of our cells, mitochondria. More blood flow also increases nutrient and protein availability in order to express brain relevant genes and help in the conversion of precursor nutrients into relevant molecules that are required for optimal brain processing.

2) Adequate supply of nutrients required for the formation of neurotransmitters - these include amino acids such as tyrosine (adrenaline/epinephrine, noradrenaline/norepinephrine and dopamine), tryptophan (precursor to serotonin), acetyl-CoA and choline (precursors to acetylcholine formation), etc.

3) A large supply of antioxidants - When parts of your brain are very active then generate large quantities of reactive oxygen species (ROS) which go on to damage cellular proteins, cell membranes, etc. Antioxidants act to "mop up" these ROS and prevent their eventual "brain fog" causing properties.

4) Excitability level - Neurons only send transmission after they have received enough activation in order to "fire" and send on their signal. The most prevalent source of excitation for cerebral cortex neurons is through activation of glutamate channels. This excitation is mainly opposed by GABA and glycine, which effectively blunt the signal as they are inhibitory.

5) Levels of neuronal branching - Neurons receive signals through their dendrites, which are like the arms of a tree. The more interconnections between neurons, the more dendrites there will be, and the more information the system can hold (more connections between concepts are able to be formed).

6) Metabolic health - Neurons, as cells, are required to produce large amounts of ATP (the energy molecule of the cell). More ATP means that they can fire more times without getting as exhausted.

Alright, now that you have a little background lets get in to what to do to boost brain function. Here are the basics first:

A) A general multivitamin (best/cheapest I find is LifeExtension's 2 per day multi's) - Provide you with the general nutrients to manufacture brain chemicals. I buy mine from iherb dot com. You can use my coupon code "DET108" for $5 off if you are a first time customer (if you don't want to use my referral coupon, "BUY123" is the generic one for iherb where you still get $5 off but don't give anyone commission).
cool.gif Get plenty of exercise - While not a nootropic pill per say, this one is one of the best for increasing levels of nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), both of which increase the amount of dendrite branching and increase connections between difficult concepts, which helps with memory and with solving problems.
C) Get AT LEAST 8 hours of sleep a night - helps with keeping neuron energy stores high and promotes larger brain levels of NGF and BDNF.

After you have those ones down pact, here are the supplements/drugs/herbs that will help you out. Most can be bought from iherb dot com or nutrabio dot com (cheapest sources). Take all on an empty stomach. All separate doses should be taken 4-6 hours apart. Do not take less than 4 hours before bed:

D) Coenzyme Q10 + Bioperine - Aids in ATP production in cells. Bioperine, which is usually found combined with CoQ10 helps with absorption of many different nootropics - recommend 100-200mg per day divided between 2 separate doses
E) Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) - Acts as an acetyl donor in the formation of acetylcholine. Helps transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial cell membrane to be used in the production of ATP. Increases receptors for NGF - Take 500mg, divided into 2 equal doses per day
F) Acetyl L Carnitine Arginate (ALCA) - Much of the same purpose as ALCAR, but the additional arginate enables the molecule to interact directly with the NGF receptors which ALCAR increased. - take 100-200mg per day, in 2 separate doses
G) Lion's Mane mushroom - Has a host of benefits including immune system boosting effects. Main effect you are looking for is its ability to stimulate NGF receptors. - Take 2-3 grams per day, in 2-3 divided doses. Cheapest source of this is "fungihealth dot com/affiliate/450", but the bulk 1 lb powder (yes this is an affiliate link, if you don't want to support me at all you can just remove the affiliate portion of the link). Lion's mane can also be purchased from iherb and some other sources on the internet. You want to make sure that the source you buy from uses extracted mycelium, and not only the fruiting body of the mushroom, as the myecilium contains the most active NGF boosting molecules (erinacines).
H) Choline citrate/bitartrate/Alpha-GPC/Etc. - act as the choline donor in the formation of acetylcholine - take up to 500mg per day, divided into 2 doses
I) Ginkgo biloba - Increases cerebral blood flow and acts as a antioxidant. - Use 50-100mg, divided into 2 separate doses
J) Gotu Kola, Rhodiola Rosea, Eleuthero, Brahmi - These ones have pretty complex mechanisms of action, but in short they acts to reduce stress from long study hours, increase attention, act as antioxidants, boost levels of synaptic neurotransmitters or act directly on neurotransmitter receptors. I recommend relatively low doses of these when combined together and when taken with the other supplements on this list. Gotu Kola - 100mg, Rhodiola Rosea - 50mg, Eleuthero - 100mg, Brahmi - 100mg. Divide all of these into 2 separate doses.
K) (Optional) Resveratrol - Increases the number and function of mitochondria within neural cells, helping with metabolic health and increasing levels of ATP. This one is also seen as an anti-aging aid as it increases expression of genes associated with long life (I won't get too much into that here). Take between 50-500mg (based on how much money you have to spend) in 2 divided doses.
L) Omega 3 fatty acids - Help with cell membrane stability, increases ability to concentrate and relieves stress over the long term. - Take up to five 1g capsules per day.


Here is one that you won't hear on most forums: Reduce your usage of piracetam/oxiracetam/etc. The racetams increase coordination between different brain areas, thereby increasing a brain wave pattern called "alpha waves". Sounds good doesn't it??? What most people don't understand is that the brain does its best work (most complex processing of information) when in a "beta wave" state. In contrast to the "beta" name, beta waves are actually of higher frequency than alpha waves. This means that there is less coordination between large sections of brain tissue. This is actually a good thing and I will explain why: Each brain area can be seen as a small parallel processor which is specific for a certain type of information. A small chunk of brain area from the occipital lobe of your brain processes only one aspect of visual information, and nothing else. Now, the racetams force larger brain areas to process info that they were never intended to process. This means that instead of an area of 5 mm cubic processing the equation "5+5=?", you would then have an area of 10 mm cubic processing this same task. As you can gather from this, it would be much better to have 2000 small parallel processors working on separate chunks of info and have a really good system in place to combine the information from the separate processors, then to use very large brain areas to process very simple concepts. In a study, physicists were given piracetam before attempting difficult physics problems; it was found to actually decrease their ability to process complex information (I don't have the reference for this off-hand, but you can look it up on pubmed if you are interested). The alpha waves associated with piracetam are associated with repetitive and moreso automatic tasks. They are really good for concentration if you are doing regular 9-5 jobs, but for intense study sessions, exams and complex material, I would keep their use to a minimum.

Cheers,

mban


I have some more questions about this stack. Most things cannot easily be bought as pure powder.
I got some pills and have difficulties to find out the actual dose.
For the Brahmi it says 3 pills/day and daily dose 330mg herbs, 660 mg herb extract (of which 52 mg bacosides (whatever that is...)). So I've been taking one pill per day that should be 110mg herbs, but I dunno did you mean with your recommended dose the pure active component?

Also I have these choline bitartrate pills, it says 650mg choline bitartrate and 260mg choline. Which is more important? but I think I'll change to alpha GPC anyways after what I've read about crossing of the BBB...

Also, do you think Phosphatidylserine would help in addition? Since the nerve cell membranes contain both phosphatydlcholine and phosphatidylserine (and choline + fish oil only helps in production of phosphatydlcholine but not phosphatidylserine ).

And one last question, what do you think about modafinil, I want to buy it, but only for occasional/emergency use. Some people take daily 100-200mg but that would be quite expensive...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Dec 29, 2012, 03:28 PM
Post #51


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(crazyAndroid @ Dec 22, 2012, 06:01 AM) *

I have some more questions about this stack. Most things cannot easily be bought as pure powder.
I got some pills and have difficulties to find out the actual dose.
For the Brahmi it says 3 pills/day and daily dose 330mg herbs, 660 mg herb extract (of which 52 mg bacosides (whatever that is...)). So I've been taking one pill per day that should be 110mg herbs, but I dunno did you mean with your recommended dose the pure active component?

Also I have these choline bitartrate pills, it says 650mg choline bitartrate and 260mg choline. Which is more important? but I think I'll change to alpha GPC anyways after what I've read about crossing of the BBB...

Also, do you think Phosphatidylserine would help in addition? Since the nerve cell membranes contain both phosphatydlcholine and phosphatidylserine (and choline + fish oil only helps in production of phosphatydlcholine but not phosphatidylserine ).

And one last question, what do you think about modafinil, I want to buy it, but only for occasional/emergency use. Some people take daily 100-200mg but that would be quite expensive...


If you are taking the bacopa in combination with the other supplements/herbs in that stack, then you will want to take 100mg or less of the herb extract, so if one pill is 100mg of extract then you only have to take one per day. If the pill/capsule contains 200mg of the extract, then take only a half pill/capsule a day.

Choline bitartrate provides the choline (260mg) listed on the bottle. Choline bitartrate is a molecule composed of a choline associated with a bitartrate. When choline bitartrate breaks apart in the body the choline is released and bitartrate released. 650mg of choline bitartrate breaks apart to release 260mg of choline and 390mg bitartrate. A single capsule per day should be plenty enough.

Phosphatidylserine may help in high enough doses, but at low doses there will be little to no effect. I wouldn't advise spending the money on it unless you have a good chunk of change to spend on larger amounts.

I can't comment on modafinil at this time, I haven't had any experience with it and I do not have time at this point to do extensive Pubmed searches for its pharmacology and side effects. Personally, I don't see its use as being necessary unless you don't manage your time correctly and get into a rut (i.e. cramming for a test). It is known to affect sleep quality, and sleep is necessary for the proper consolidation and integration of newly formed memories into the coherent whole, so try not to rely too much on it. If you were to take it, I would suggest taking an extremely low dose (10-25mg in the morning). Modafinil may result in skin and/or hypersensitivity reactions, so i'll let you be the judge of whether your current schooling situation really necessitates its use: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevens-Johnson_syndrome
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
robertguitar10
post Jan 12, 2013, 05:55 AM
Post #52


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Member No.: 34820



QUOTE(mban @ Jan 28, 2012, 11:43 AM) *

Hello casa861,

This is my first post in this forum but I am very knowledgeable in this particular area (schooling in neuroscience) and think I could help you out. Notice that I put "dot com" in the links so that I could post this as it is my first time posting in this forum.

When looking at the brain and human memory you have to consider a variety of things which increase ability to store, process, and recall information:

1) Cerebral blood flow - Neurons require large portions of our bodily blood flow to function effectively. More blood flow equates to increased oxygenation, which is required for energy formation from the powerhouse of our cells, mitochondria. More blood flow also increases nutrient and protein availability in order to express brain relevant genes and help in the conversion of precursor nutrients into relevant molecules that are required for optimal brain processing.

2) Adequate supply of nutrients required for the formation of neurotransmitters - these include amino acids such as tyrosine (adrenaline/epinephrine, noradrenaline/norepinephrine and dopamine), tryptophan (precursor to serotonin), acetyl-CoA and choline (precursors to acetylcholine formation), etc.

3) A large supply of antioxidants - When parts of your brain are very active then generate large quantities of reactive oxygen species (ROS) which go on to damage cellular proteins, cell membranes, etc. Antioxidants act to "mop up" these ROS and prevent their eventual "brain fog" causing properties.

4) Excitability level - Neurons only send transmission after they have received enough activation in order to "fire" and send on their signal. The most prevalent source of excitation for cerebral cortex neurons is through activation of glutamate channels. This excitation is mainly opposed by GABA and glycine, which effectively blunt the signal as they are inhibitory.

5) Levels of neuronal branching - Neurons receive signals through their dendrites, which are like the arms of a tree. The more interconnections between neurons, the more dendrites there will be, and the more information the system can hold (more connections between concepts are able to be formed).

6) Metabolic health - Neurons, as cells, are required to produce large amounts of ATP (the energy molecule of the cell). More ATP means that they can fire more times without getting as exhausted.

Alright, now that you have a little background lets get in to what to do to boost brain function. Here are the basics first:

A) A general multivitamin (best/cheapest I find is LifeExtension's 2 per day multi's) - Provide you with the general nutrients to manufacture brain chemicals. I buy mine from iherb dot com. You can use my coupon code "DET108" for $5 off if you are a first time customer (if you don't want to use my referral coupon, "BUY123" is the generic one for iherb where you still get $5 off but don't give anyone commission).
cool.gif Get plenty of exercise - While not a nootropic pill per say, this one is one of the best for increasing levels of nerve growth factor (NGF) and brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), both of which increase the amount of dendrite branching and increase connections between difficult concepts, which helps with memory and with solving problems.
C) Get AT LEAST 8 hours of sleep a night - helps with keeping neuron energy stores high and promotes larger brain levels of NGF and BDNF.

After you have those ones down pact, here are the supplements/drugs/herbs that will help you out. Most can be bought from iherb dot com or nutrabio dot com (cheapest sources). Take all on an empty stomach. All separate doses should be taken 4-6 hours apart. Do not take less than 4 hours before bed:

D) Coenzyme Q10 + Bioperine - Aids in ATP production in cells. Bioperine, which is usually found combined with CoQ10 helps with absorption of many different nootropics - recommend 100-200mg per day divided between 2 separate doses
E) Acetyl L Carnitine (ALCAR) - Acts as an acetyl donor in the formation of acetylcholine. Helps transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial cell membrane to be used in the production of ATP. Increases receptors for NGF - Take 500mg, divided into 2 equal doses per day
F) Acetyl L Carnitine Arginate (ALCA) - Much of the same purpose as ALCAR, but the additional arginate enables the molecule to interact directly with the NGF receptors which ALCAR increased. - take 100-200mg per day, in 2 separate doses
G) Lion's Mane mushroom - Has a host of benefits including immune system boosting effects. Main effect you are looking for is its ability to stimulate NGF receptors. - Take 2-3 grams per day, in 2-3 divided doses. Cheapest source of this is "fungihealth dot com/affiliate/450", but the bulk 1 lb powder (yes this is an affiliate link, if you don't want to support me at all you can just remove the affiliate portion of the link). Lion's mane can also be purchased from iherb and some other sources on the internet. You want to make sure that the source you buy from uses extracted mycelium, and not only the fruiting body of the mushroom, as the myecilium contains the most active NGF boosting molecules (erinacines).
H) Choline citrate/bitartrate/Alpha-GPC/Etc. - act as the choline donor in the formation of acetylcholine - take up to 500mg per day, divided into 2 doses
I) Ginkgo biloba - Increases cerebral blood flow and acts as a antioxidant. - Use 50-100mg, divided into 2 separate doses
J) Gotu Kola, Rhodiola Rosea, Eleuthero, Brahmi - These ones have pretty complex mechanisms of action, but in short they acts to reduce stress from long study hours, increase attention, act as antioxidants, boost levels of synaptic neurotransmitters or act directly on neurotransmitter receptors. I recommend relatively low doses of these when combined together and when taken with the other supplements on this list. Gotu Kola - 100mg, Rhodiola Rosea - 50mg, Eleuthero - 100mg, Brahmi - 100mg. Divide all of these into 2 separate doses.
K) (Optional) Resveratrol - Increases the number and function of mitochondria within neural cells, helping with metabolic health and increasing levels of ATP. This one is also seen as an anti-aging aid as it increases expression of genes associated with long life (I won't get too much into that here). Take between 50-500mg (based on how much money you have to spend) in 2 divided doses.
L) Omega 3 fatty acids - Help with cell membrane stability, increases ability to concentrate and relieves stress over the long term. - Take up to five 1g capsules per day.


Here is one that you won't hear on most forums: Reduce your usage of piracetam/oxiracetam/etc. The racetams increase coordination between different brain areas, thereby increasing a brain wave pattern called "alpha waves". Sounds good doesn't it??? What most people don't understand is that the brain does its best work (most complex processing of information) when in a "beta wave" state. In contrast to the "beta" name, beta waves are actually of higher frequency than alpha waves. This means that there is less coordination between large sections of brain tissue. This is actually a good thing and I will explain why: Each brain area can be seen as a small parallel processor which is specific for a certain type of information. A small chunk of brain area from the occipital lobe of your brain processes only one aspect of visual information, and nothing else. Now, the racetams force larger brain areas to process info that they were never intended to process. This means that instead of an area of 5 mm cubic processing the equation "5+5=?", you would then have an area of 10 mm cubic processing this same task. As you can gather from this, it would be much better to have 2000 small parallel processors working on separate chunks of info and have a really good system in place to combine the information from the separate processors, then to use very large brain areas to process very simple concepts. In a study, physicists were given piracetam before attempting difficult physics problems; it was found to actually decrease their ability to process complex information (I don't have the reference for this off-hand, but you can look it up on pubmed if you are interested). The alpha waves associated with piracetam are associated with repetitive and moreso automatic tasks. They are really good for concentration if you are doing regular 9-5 jobs, but for intense study sessions, exams and complex material, I would keep their use to a minimum.

Cheers,

mban

mban,
First of all i am new to nootropics and am trying to improve my overall cognitive function as well as memory (short and long term). My current stack consist of 20mg Vinpocetine, 50mcg Huperzine , 60mg Ginkgo biloba extract, 130mg DMAE, and 310mg Choline. I intend to get the multivitamin as well as some of the other supplements listed in D-L. I dont sleep that great but am usually able to get 6-8 hours, I also exercise plenty. What specifically would you recommend to help with my tasks and would you recommend removing anything that i am already taking?
Thank you in advance.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rob+3sigma
post Jan 13, 2013, 12:20 PM
Post #53


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 13, 2013
Member No.: 34823



Hi Mban,

Great post, however I do have one question. You say not to take different supplements together ie take 4-6 hrs apart. Surly there must be some of these that are synergistic and could be taken at the same time??

Thanks
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Jan 13, 2013, 05:30 PM
Post #54


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(robertguitar10 @ Jan 12, 2013, 06:55 AM) *

mban,
First of all i am new to nootropics and am trying to improve my overall cognitive function as well as memory (short and long term). My current stack consist of 20mg Vinpocetine, 50mcg Huperzine , 60mg Ginkgo biloba extract, 130mg DMAE, and 310mg Choline. I intend to get the multivitamin as well as some of the other supplements listed in D-L. I dont sleep that great but am usually able to get 6-8 hours, I also exercise plenty. What specifically would you recommend to help with my tasks and would you recommend removing anything that i am already taking?
Thank you in advance.

I would recommend reducing the vinpocetine to 5-10mg as it acts to inhibit voltage gated sodium channels (reduces neuronal excitability), reduce the huperzine down to less than 25 mcg, and add in acetyl-l-carnitine and perhaps 100mg of rhodiola rosea and a couple capsules of fish oil per day.

QUOTE(rob+3sigma @ Jan 13, 2013, 01:20 PM) *

Hi Mban,

Great post, however I do have one question. You say not to take different supplements together ie take 4-6 hrs apart. Surly there must be some of these that are synergistic and could be taken at the same time??

Thanks

Hi Rob,
You misunderstood the dosing. Everything can be taken together at the same time, but it is best to split the dose up into several parts (i.e. take 250mg of ALCAR in morning and 250mg ALCAR in afternoon, instead of taking 500mg in the morning only).

Cheers,
Mban

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
robertguitar10
post Jan 14, 2013, 09:33 PM
Post #55


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 12, 2013
Member No.: 34820



QUOTE(mban @ Jan 13, 2013, 05:30 PM) *

QUOTE(robertguitar10 @ Jan 12, 2013, 06:55 AM) *

mban,
First of all i am new to nootropics and am trying to improve my overall cognitive function as well as memory (short and long term). My current stack consist of 20mg Vinpocetine, 50mcg Huperzine , 60mg Ginkgo biloba extract, 130mg DMAE, and 310mg Choline. I intend to get the multivitamin as well as some of the other supplements listed in D-L. I dont sleep that great but am usually able to get 6-8 hours, I also exercise plenty. What specifically would you recommend to help with my tasks and would you recommend removing anything that i am already taking?
Thank you in advance.

I would recommend reducing the vinpocetine to 5-10mg as it acts to inhibit voltage gated sodium channels (reduces neuronal excitability), reduce the huperzine down to less than 25 mcg, and add in acetyl-l-carnitine and perhaps 100mg of rhodiola rosea and a couple capsules of fish oil per day.


Ok, so i will reduce the vinpocetine and huperzine, I added Rainbow light multivitamin and with get fish oil. How much acetyl-l-carnitine would you recommend adding? Also, Are these amounts for 1 day or for 2 doses approximately 6 hours apart? Thanks in advance for your response and your previous one.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Jan 14, 2013, 09:55 PM
Post #56


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(robertguitar10 @ Jan 14, 2013, 10:33 PM) *

Ok, so i will reduce the vinpocetine and huperzine, I added Rainbow light multivitamin and with get fish oil. How much acetyl-l-carnitine would you recommend adding? Also, Are these amounts for 1 day or for 2 doses approximately 6 hours apart? Thanks in advance for your response and your previous one.


Hi Robertguitar,

A normal dose of acetyl-l-carnitine is between 500-1000mg per day. If you decide on 500mg, it means dividing that dosage into however many separate doses you want to take in a day (i.e. if you want to take it first thing in the morning and again in the afternoon, you would take 250mg in the morning and 250mg in the afternoon (4-6 hours after the first dose)).

All the amounts stated in my initial long reply were the daily intakes. Take 1/2 of the daily intake dosage in the morning, the other 1/2 in the early afternoon (4-6 hours later).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mgrey
post Jul 22, 2013, 04:18 PM
Post #57


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Member No.: 35249



I see that you've don a lot of research on the various individual components needed for peak focus. I was an avid piracetam user and still am. What I discovered, similarly to you, was that piracetam needed other components to work at its best. So I started taking choline, magensium, ALCAR, L-theaning, and resveratrol. I got bored with making my owns stacks though. So I've tried a few premade stacks, and honestly the best stack I found was from one I hadn't even heard of before. It's called trubrain, they give me a box that's nicely divided into daily doses of DHA, choline, piracetam, magnesium, L-theanine, tyrosine, and some other parts. They've been working great and I would recommend it if you would prefer having a premade blend.

Good Luck!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Jul 22, 2013, 10:08 PM
Post #58


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(mgrey @ Jul 22, 2013, 06:18 PM) *

I see that you've don a lot of research on the various individual components needed for peak focus. I was an avid piracetam user and still am. What I discovered, similarly to you, was that piracetam needed other components to work at its best. So I started taking choline, magensium, ALCAR, L-theaning, and resveratrol. I got bored with making my owns stacks though. So I've tried a few premade stacks, and honestly the best stack I found was from one I hadn't even heard of before. It's called trubrain, they give me a box that's nicely divided into daily doses of DHA, choline, piracetam, magnesium, L-theanine, tyrosine, and some other parts. They've been working great and I would recommend it if you would prefer having a premade blend.

Good Luck!


It seems to be a pretty good mix of ingredients, but it is extremely expensive...

Much better to buy the ingredients individually and mix them yourself if you're able to.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
cogni
post Jul 23, 2013, 09:44 AM
Post #59


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 6
Joined: Jul 23, 2013
Member No.: 35250



Hi everyone, Im a total newbie to all of the nootropic stuff. So, I have a question: should I supplement in cycles, even if I dont want to use the racetams. For example, a basic stack with cdp choline, acetyl l-carnitine: 2 weeks on, a week off / 60-90 days on, a month (or more) off. Should I also add some lithium orotate, alpha lipoic acid etc.?
Another question: is it a good idea to start nice and slow and do the same with getting off the cycle. I mean, first week: 3 capsules/week, 5th-8th week: 7 capsules (250mg of cdp choline each)/week. So: 3-3-4-5-7-7-7-7-5-4-3-2 or is this not necessary at all?)
PS are there any issues if supplement also with protein (whey, casein), l-glutamine, bcaa or multivitamin "for athletes", such as twinlab daily one caps?

any help and suggestions are welcome and appreciated
Thank you in advance!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mban
post Jul 23, 2013, 04:43 PM
Post #60


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 46
Joined: Jan 28, 2012
Member No.: 33929



QUOTE(cogni @ Jul 23, 2013, 11:44 AM) *

Hi everyone, Im a total newbie to all of the nootropic stuff. So, I have a question: should I supplement in cycles, even if I dont want to use the racetams. For example, a basic stack with cdp choline, acetyl l-carnitine: 2 weeks on, a week off / 60-90 days on, a month (or more) off. Should I also add some lithium orotate, alpha lipoic acid etc.?
Another question: is it a good idea to start nice and slow and do the same with getting off the cycle. I mean, first week: 3 capsules/week, 5th-8th week: 7 capsules (250mg of cdp choline each)/week. So: 3-3-4-5-7-7-7-7-5-4-3-2 or is this not necessary at all?)
PS are there any issues if supplement also with protein (whey, casein), l-glutamine, bcaa or multivitamin "for athletes", such as twinlab daily one caps?

any help and suggestions are welcome and appreciated
Thank you in advance!


A) Yes, it is best to cycle. There are multiple different ways you can do this; what works best for me is to use my supplements Monday through Friday, then take the weekend off. I also don't take my stack any weekday that I know I won't be doing mentally challenging work. In a month period. this means that I will have taken 8 weekend days off, plus 2-7 extra weekdays off interspersed. Total of 10-15 days of not taking my supplements in a month to prevent tolerance.

B ) No need to start slow. Take a low enough dosage that gives you beneficial effects without causing tolerance week after week. A low dosage on the days that you are taking your supplements, plus cycling and not taking the supplements completely for several days, and you will get the benefits while preventing the tolerance.

C) There should be little issue with taking the supplements with protein, BCAAs, l-glutamine or multivitamins. Pre-workout mixes and other more stimulating workout supplements can be an issue (e.g. some pre-workout mixes contain large doses of caffeine, tyrosine, etc. etc.).

D) You can take alpha lipoic acid (ALA) if you desire, though I would suggest a low dosage (i.e. 100-200mg per day). No need to take lithium orotate unless you are dealing with a specific condition for which it's necessary. Lithium orotate gives no nootropic benefits, only mood stabilization at higher doses.



User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

3 Pages V < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 18th November 2017 - 03:22 PM


Home     |     About     |    Research     |    Forum     |    Feedback  


Copyright BrainMeta. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use  |  Last Modified Tue Jan 17 2006 12:39 am

Consciousness Expansion · Brain Mapping · Neural Circuits · Connectomics  ·  Neuroscience Forum  ·  Brain Maps Blog
 · Connectomics · Connectomics  ·  shawn mikula  ·  shawn mikula  ·  articles