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> Emotiv & Neurosky ( EEG ) genuine or scam ?
onk
post Sep 14, 2011, 12:28 PM
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Ive been looking at alternative ways I can help help bypass my health issues so I can meditate again and came across two companies ( Neurosky & Emotiv ) selling their EEG products with software.

( sry cant post links )

As Im not entriely convinced they really do anything to help I wondered ( seeing as no one else seems to have mentioned them ) if any one else here had tried them , and if they had any success ?

thanks

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Flex
post Sep 14, 2011, 01:04 PM
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http://www.ted.com/talks/tan_le_a_headset_...brainwaves.html

Looks awesome, probably doesn't work well yet smile.gif
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KoolK3n
post Sep 15, 2011, 03:45 PM
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That video was posted well over a year ago, so hopefully upgrades/refinements were made to it.

With my gut feeling, I am guessing Emotiv works better. Anyone thinking of actually buying either?
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onk
post Sep 15, 2011, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Sep 15, 2011, 03:45 PM) *

That video was posted well over a year ago, so hopefully upgrades/refinements were made to it.

With my gut feeling, I am guessing Emotiv works better. Anyone thinking of actually buying either?


Well, Ive been toying with the idea , I agree Emotiv looks better but the Neurosky is cheaper ..

Im having a particulair problem talking these days due to my health issues so I was curious if I could even use this as way round it , when i asked Emotiv about this they recommended I go with the Developers pack which of course is a cool $500 compared to 200 or whatevet it is for the consumers model.

The consumer model is only available is not available in Europe as far as I know.

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herbbread
post Sep 22, 2011, 01:42 PM
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So I think it depends on what you want to use it for. I've tried the neurosky hardware at a conference a year ago, and have one of the "toys" they manufacture where you can, by concentrating or relaxing, control the airflow on the toy to make a foam ball "levitate". I'd rate it's performance as mediocre.

There's nothing really new about the technology except that the two companies have made EEG recording cheap enough for the typical consumer to purchase. As far as I understand, although their algorithms are "proprietary", they look at an alpha-to-beta ratio in the EEG which is a crude measure of relaxation. It's definitely not a scam, but I'm not sure it'll be the solution you're looking for. It really depends on what you want to do with it.

In terms of the differences between the hardware, Emotiv has more electrodes which will theoretically give more redundancy and better performance while the Neurosky hardware I've seen has only a single electrode.
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onk
post Sep 22, 2011, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE(herbbread @ Sep 22, 2011, 01:42 PM) *

So I think it depends on what you want to use it for. I've tried the neurosky hardware at a conference a year ago, and have one of the "toys" they manufacture where you can, by concentrating or relaxing, control the airflow on the toy to make a foam ball "levitate". I'd rate it's performance as mediocre.

There's nothing really new about the technology except that the two companies have made EEG recording cheap enough for the typical consumer to purchase. As far as I understand, although their algorithms are "proprietary", they look at an alpha-to-beta ratio in the EEG which is a crude measure of relaxation. It's definitely not a scam, but I'm not sure it'll be the solution you're looking for. It really depends on what you want to do with it.

In terms of the differences between the hardware, Emotiv has more electrodes which will theoretically give more redundancy and better performance while the Neurosky hardware I've seen has only a single electrode.


I really wanted to use it to see if i could find any activities or patterns im not otherwise aware of that might help me understand / overcome my physical issues or at least highlight them in some way.

I suspect that would take something a lot more powerful and expensive though.

pp
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herbbread
post Sep 23, 2011, 10:07 AM
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Well, to be honest, I don't think more expensive EEG equipment will get you much more than what the emotiv hardware will already do. They should let you do most anything you might want to do with higher end research systems. That being said, I'm not sure EEG in general will give you exactly what you want, but that depends on the issues you're trying to address/look at. EEG is good at looking for serious abnormalities in brain rhythms like potential seizure activity, but for subtle things, it might not be the best modality. The hardware itself seems quite good though.
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onk
post Sep 23, 2011, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE(herbbread @ Sep 23, 2011, 10:07 AM) *

Well, to be honest, I don't think more expensive EEG equipment will get you much more than what the emotiv hardware will already do. They should let you do most anything you might want to do with higher end research systems. That being said, I'm not sure EEG in general will give you exactly what you want, but that depends on the issues you're trying to address/look at. EEG is good at looking for serious abnormalities in brain rhythms like potential seizure activity, but for subtle things, it might not be the best modality. The hardware itself seems quite good though.


Well, I was looking at this for diagnostic purposes esp in regards to the peripheral nervous system and muscoskeletal , I also wanted to use it to test for inertia .

Heres what I was told ..



There are some serious researchers looking at different quasi-medical applications. Although the product is not FDA approved in any way and was not designed for medical applications, two of the major

open-source research packages (BCI2000 and OpenViBE) now have real-time EPOC drivers and there are thousands of units out there in the hands of researchers in universities, research organisations and independent researchers. We know of many programs including psych self-assessment support programs for anxiety and depression sufferers, teaching materials for ADHD patients, neuromarketing, neurofeedback, disability support and even third-world medicine.

The hardware is not suitable for some kinds of measurement such as blood glucose level, blood pressure etc. Heart monitoring can be arranged by attaching the sensors elsewhere.Every body movement creates an impulse in the Brian and thus it should be reflected.

The EPOC system collects mental activity directly from the scalp, and also includes a two-axis gyro which follows the movement of the head. WHile in theory it is possible to extract motor activities such as
moving the legs or arms through EEG signals, we do not provide such detections because our sensors do not provide very much coverage of the motor cortex. These detections also require a very high level of
processing to achieve good accuracy, beyond the usual scope of consumer devices at this stage.



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nadmedia
post Nov 18, 2011, 12:42 AM
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I purchased the MindSet from NeuroSky and awaiting for its arrival. I've been playing around with the SDK, and everything looks pretty cool so far. I've researched the company and watched videos on there products over the last few weeks. I'm really excited about this technology coming to a consumer level. Once I get my MindSet I will post results.

NADmedia
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NootropicDude
post Apr 11, 2012, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE(nadmedia @ Nov 18, 2011, 12:42 AM) *

I purchased the MindSet from NeuroSky and awaiting for its arrival. I've been playing around with the SDK, and everything looks pretty cool so far. I've researched the company and watched videos on there products over the last few weeks. I'm really excited about this technology coming to a consumer level. Once I get my MindSet I will post results.

NADmedia


How did you like the product?
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amtya
post Apr 11, 2012, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE(onk @ Sep 14, 2011, 01:28 PM) *

Ive been looking at alternative ways I can help help bypass my health issues so I can meditate again and came across two companies ( Neurosky & Emotiv ) selling their EEG products with software.

( sry cant post links )

As Im not entriely convinced they really do anything to help I wondered ( seeing as no one else seems to have mentioned them ) if any one else here had tried them , and if they had any success ?

thanks

pinpoe


Hi there,
i have the emotiv and I use it in conjunction with Mind workstation software from transparentcorp dot com. I also use a light/sound synergizer in conjuction with this. This combination has worked for me for the last 4 months, although I use it for other intents - mainly focus and concentration while studying.
I would suggest trying some sessions from Neuro-Programmer trial for meditation and see if they are helpful - I've used them in the past and found them to work.
Hope it helps.

~Amtya
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niquil
post Sep 11, 2012, 05:37 PM
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Hi,

I've been looking for a good forum to discuss some of my personal findings of neurofeedback.

Anyway, I can speak in regards to the Neurosky Mindwave which I purchased a few months ago. Let's say if your wanting to get into neurofeedback it is a good way to get you a taste of how it works, the software it comes with right off the bat was a little disappointing, but I was able to write my own code in C# using the sdk doing more-so what I want, I'll be releasing an opensource project on what I've done here soon enough.
So, you get the headset it clips on to the ear, and has only one sensor that goes on the Fp1 position which is right above your left eyebrow, this is enough to get you a lot of what you want, but don't expect to be able to see anything other than graphing certain brainwaves or seeing two other indicators they provide which are Meditation and Attention done at a percentage (0-100%).

While the Neurosky is fascinating, I am curious as to what kind of resolution and indicators other devices have such as the Epoch (or maybe an OpenEEG style?), I've seen the TED Talk on the Epoch and there was lots, and lots of commands you could send it and have it understand, it seems much more accessible for interactivity that I would like to explore, could anyone elaborate on this?

If anyone has any questions on the Neurosky I would be happy to respond, and if there are any other software developers out there, let's talk.
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joey
post Nov 02, 2012, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE(niquil @ Sep 11, 2012, 06:37 PM) *

Hi,

I've been looking for a good forum to discuss some of my personal findings of neurofeedback.

Anyway, I can speak in regards to the Neurosky Mindwave which I purchased a few months ago. Let's say if your wanting to get into neurofeedback it is a good way to get you a taste of how it works, the software it comes with right off the bat was a little disappointing, but I was able to write my own code in C# using the sdk doing more-so what I want, I'll be releasing an opensource project on what I've done here soon enough.
So, you get the headset it clips on to the ear, and has only one sensor that goes on the Fp1 position which is right above your left eyebrow, this is enough to get you a lot of what you want, but don't expect to be able to see anything other than graphing certain brainwaves or seeing two other indicators they provide which are Meditation and Attention done at a percentage (0-100%).

While the Neurosky is fascinating, I am curious as to what kind of resolution and indicators other devices have such as the Epoch (or maybe an OpenEEG style?), I've seen the TED Talk on the Epoch and there was lots, and lots of commands you could send it and have it understand, it seems much more accessible for interactivity that I would like to explore, could anyone elaborate on this?

If anyone has any questions on the Neurosky I would be happy to respond, and if there are any other software developers out there, let's talk.


Hi,

I've just begun researching the Neurosky and Emotiv for use in a comparative study of focus and concentration (at the electrophysiological level) between differing groups of people in controlled contexts. I'm a computer scientist by training and have made a career doing analytical r&d, but never in this space, so I'm a bit of a newbie. I'd like to find out more specifics regarding what these devices can actually measure and whether or not the data will be of any use. I also assumed I'd have to write a good bit of code to accomplish my tasks so I'd love to hear more about your work and any openSource projects you know of or may have started, I might be able to contribute!


Thanks
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cicis
post Nov 13, 2012, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE(niquil @ Sep 11, 2012, 05:37 PM) *

Hi,

I've been looking for a good forum to discuss some of my personal findings of neurofeedback.

Anyway, I can speak in regards to the Neurosky Mindwave which I purchased a few months ago. Let's say if your wanting to get into neurofeedback it is a good way to get you a taste of how it works, the software it comes with right off the bat was a little disappointing, but I was able to write my own code in C# using the sdk doing more-so what I want, I'll be releasing an opensource project on what I've done here soon enough.
So, you get the headset it clips on to the ear, and has only one sensor that goes on the Fp1 position which is right above your left eyebrow, this is enough to get you a lot of what you want, but don't expect to be able to see anything other than graphing certain brainwaves or seeing two other indicators they provide which are Meditation and Attention done at a percentage (0-100%).

While the Neurosky is fascinating, I am curious as to what kind of resolution and indicators other devices have such as the Epoch (or maybe an OpenEEG style?), I've seen the TED Talk on the Epoch and there was lots, and lots of commands you could send it and have it understand, it seems much more accessible for interactivity that I would like to explore, could anyone elaborate on this?

If anyone has any questions on the Neurosky I would be happy to respond, and if there are any other software developers out there, let's talk.


Hi niquil,
I have been diagnosed with adult onset of ADD caused by stress and I am having neurofeedback sessions in my dr's office. I am looking into purchasing a personal set that would allow me to do some neurobeedback at home as well, so I have been reading up on these two devices. I have been trying to find people who have some first hand experience with them. Can you please tell me more about NeuroSky? Incidentally I am also a software developer and I am intrigued by the application development in this area. I understand that NeuroSky is the only set that that works with Apple devices. Is that still the case?
Thank you kindly,
Cici
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RichG
post May 29, 2013, 01:26 PM
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I have a MindWave headset and so far can only describe the experience as very random, with apparently little correlation between "thoughts" and actions.

Have done a lot of research into the Neurosky technology and am sure it is genuine, however I am far from convinced that it actually "works" in it's current form.

Have a read of this report, the link is from the Neurosky website, where it is held up as an excellent thesis for BCI.

daim.idi.ntnu.no/masteroppgave?id=6288

Not sure if they have read it, but to my way of thinking, it says in the nicest possible way that it does not work....

Other than an ability to detect blinks, and differentiate between eyes open & closed, it failed at everything else they threw at it.


Rich
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Neuro Knot
post Jun 13, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Do not buy this product, The NeuroSky MindWave if you are electro sensitive.

I bought this product in April 2013, or thereabouts. I used it once and within a half hour of using it started experiencing a very strong migraine headache. I had to take the head set off promptly and rest. I thought it was a one off and didn't use it again till the next day and it occurred again. This time I waited 7 days, with not such pain in between and on the third occasion it did it again. I saw my doctor and he told me that I may be electro sensitive and that I should not use a product of this nature and send it back to the manufacturer telling them what has transpired. I did contact them, but never received a return email. I put the product on the book shelf and forgot about it after this. Recently I was cleaning up and found it again. Thinking about why I hadn't heard from the customer support, I emailed them again. Their answer was not one of concern, but basically telling me that because I hadn't contacted them prior (I did) then a refund will not be honored. It's a product that has basically been used a handful of times, for very brief moments, but most importantly caused me a medical problem that should be addressed by the manufacturer. Instead of making note of this and applying basic human reasoning and refunding my money as well as possibly researching why this is occurring (I'm sure I'm not the only one), they're apparently more interested in the bottom line$$

Steer clear of NeuroSky and Mindwave technologies.

Regards!
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RonCi
post Aug 25, 2014, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE(Neuro Knot @ Jun 13, 2014, 10:26 AM) *

Do not buy this product, The NeuroSky MindWave if you are electro sensitive.

I bought this product in April 2013, or thereabouts. I used it once and within a half hour of using it started experiencing a very strong migraine headache. I had to take the head set off promptly and rest. I thought it was a one off and didn't use it again till the next day and it occurred again. This time I waited 7 days, with not such pain in between and on the third occasion it did it again. I saw my doctor and he told me that I may be electro sensitive and that I should not use a product of this nature and send it back to the manufacturer telling them what has transpired. I did contact them, but never received a return email. I put the product on the book shelf and forgot about it after this. Recently I was cleaning up and found it again. Thinking about why I hadn't heard from the customer support, I emailed them again. Their answer was not one of concern, but basically telling me that because I hadn't contacted them prior (I did) then a refund will not be honored. It's a product that has basically been used a handful of times, for very brief moments, but most importantly caused me a medical problem that should be addressed by the manufacturer. Instead of making note of this and applying basic human reasoning and refunding my money as well as possibly researching why this is occurring (I'm sure I'm not the only one), they're apparently more interested in the bottom line$$

Steer clear of NeuroSky and Mindwave technologies.

Regards!


@Neuro Knot,
Sorry to read about your issues with this product. One of the questions I've been trying to understand is the potential side effects of this technology. I've only recently started to explore this area and may be interested in purchasing your equipment but I'm leaning toward the EPOC. I know youve only used it a few times but I would be concerned that it could be associated with some sort of malfunction rather than simply your own sensitivity.

Is there someone you know who might try it to verify that the equipment ais actually functioning properly and will not affect everyone the same way? I know there is a potential risk but another subject using the device could be more puruasive if the same ror similar results are obtained. If there is truly a safety issue with this particular unit then the company will likely respond positively and if not then hey should be reported. Today the internet is a powerful media for the individual. It is not in their best interest to have your experience posted on facebook or Reddit or other popular media.
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