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> Does the cure to Alzheimer's exist?, Obvious question I can't find
KoolK3n
post Aug 21, 2011, 07:23 AM
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This may seem like a stupid question but do effective Anti-Myloid drug treatments exist? I've been hearing about the potential for some years now. If already proven effective in animal studies, why not immediately go for clinical trials on human volunteers?
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Flex
post Aug 21, 2011, 09:12 AM
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Not even close to a cure. Getting rid of the plaques and tangles doesn't mean you fix the problem.
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KoolK3n
post Aug 21, 2011, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Aug 21, 2011, 12:12 PM) *

Not even close to a cure. Getting rid of the plaques and tangles doesn't mean you fix the problem.


Not to be rude but how so? It stops further mental degradation by preventing the plagues and tangles to form. Can you clarify on what the problem is?
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Flex
post Aug 21, 2011, 11:17 AM
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The problem seems to be something with cholesterol as indicated by different ApoE isoforms.

B-amyloid sheets form in the pancreas of those with diabetes, but you don't see diabetics taking drugs to prevent this. It is not the problem, it is the result of the problem.
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KoolK3n
post Aug 21, 2011, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Aug 21, 2011, 02:17 PM) *

The problem seems to be something with cholesterol as indicated by different ApoE isoforms.

B-amyloid sheets form in the pancreas of those with diabetes, but you don't see diabetics taking drugs to prevent this. It is not the problem, it is the result of the problem.


I've only done 20 minutes of research on cholesterol's effect on the brain and ApoE isoforms. So please pardon my lack of experience. So I've found out that:

"George Bartzokis, professor of neurology at UCLA's David Geffen School of Medicine, director of the UCLA Memory Disorders and Alzheimer's Disease Clinic and Clinical Core director of the UCLA Alzheimer's Disease Research Center, closely analyzed MRI scans of 250 men and women's brains over three years to study the organ's internal "wiring." In healthy people, the wiring is coated with a fatty tissue called myelin, which has the highest cholesterol count of any brain tissue. The high amount of cholesterol allows the myelin to tightly wrap itself around the neurons, nerve cells that transmit messages to each other electrochemically, acting as a kind of natural "insulation." Bartzokis found that myelin keeps developing till about middle age. "This process continues until you are about 50, and that's when you achieve the maximum insulation of all the wires in the brain," he says.

But after that, it begins to degenerate. As more and more myelin is produced, the cholesterol level in the brain grows too. Too much cholesterol causes the production of a protein that attacks the myelin, and disrupts the message-transfer function of the neurons. "After 50, the insulation of the wiring begins to break down, and that's when you start to have lapses in memory, which eventually progress— in some people faster than others— to the point where eventually Alzheimer's disease develops," says Bartzokis, whose analysis revealed that the myelin actually breaks down in reverse order of development, with the most complex brain development deteriorating first." - Sciencentral

Couldn't an already diagnosed Alzheimer's patient recieve anti-inflammatory drugs and cholesterol-lowering medications to keep the myelin "insulation" healthy or regulated which prevents further protein toxins from being produced? And on top of that, receiving Anti-Myloid drugs to reduce the amount of plagues and tangles forming? Then take several very strong nootropics that jumpstart neurogenesis to create storage for new memories?
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Jakare
post Aug 21, 2011, 09:40 PM
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Interesting contribution. Wouldn´t that implies alzheimer is somehow related to multiple sclerosis if we have to believe the myelin model?...which i think is just one part of the puzzle.

This paper suggest you could know when you´ve started to walk down the hill by measuring your finger-tapping speed. Certainly your performance will rise with some training but soon you will peak your maximun performance, and so then by checking it every year you will know the year you started to get old...
interesting thought.

Another interesting paper but a little bit old:
http://www2.massgeneral.org/neurology/Kova...lesterol_03.pdf
I don´t understand something, if plama cholesterol level is not necessarily correlated to intracellular cholesterol level, and taking into acount nearly all brain cholesterol is created in situ (well thats a asumption), how is it diet restriction and cholesterol management drugs can make a difference on AD prognosis?

Terrible illness AD is.
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Flex
post Aug 22, 2011, 02:13 PM
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NSAIDs and statins come with other consequences. Since you are dealing with cholesterol, you have to take into account the route which it is synthesized. HMG-CoA as a target effects the production of all isoprenoids, and thus it becomes essential to further supplement with CoQ10 just to restore function. Another critical issue is the fact that steroid hormones are synthesized from cholesterol.

ApoE is a lipoprotein. The fact that different isoforms confer different probabilities of illness indicates that it is the differences in cholesterol transport and localization that are an issue. It is likely that there is more to the story. Probably some contribution comes from increased mitochondrial radical production, causing oxidation of cholesterol.

Drugs are not an effective means of promoting neurogenesis. Drugs tend to act in very broad ways, and thus are less effective. A healthy lifestyle seems to be the most effective treatment so far, and probably will be for a long time. This is not to say that medications wont play a role.

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KoolK3n
post Oct 31, 2011, 05:06 AM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Aug 22, 2011, 05:13 PM) *

HMG-CoA as a target effects the production of all isoprenoids, and thus it becomes essential to further supplement with CoQ10 just to restore function.


Then add it onto the stack smile.gif

QUOTE(Flex @ Aug 22, 2011, 05:13 PM) *

Another critical issue is the fact that steroid hormones are synthesized from cholesterol.


Would Pregnenolone compensate for this?

QUOTE(Flex @ Aug 22, 2011, 05:13 PM) *

Probably some contribution comes from increased mitochondrial radical production, causing oxidation of cholesterol.


Consuming Mitochondrial metabolites have shown to reduce oxidative damage and improve mitochondrial function. (i.e. ALCAR and/or Alpha Lipoic Acid). Even Yeast is a great catalase in breaking down the free radical Hydrogen Peroxide and reducing toxic excess accumulation.
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KoolK3n
post Dec 09, 2011, 05:42 PM
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List I complied just for fighting Alzheimers: (Absolute essential)
-Acetylcarnitine (Neuroprotective)
-Phosphatidydylserine (Membrane Stabilizer)
-Lion's Mane Mushroom (Possible NGF)
-Uncaria tomentosa (Helps inhibit brain beta amyloid deposits)
-Huperzine-A (Possible NGF)
-Royal Jelly (Possible NGF)
-Coenyzme q10 (Increases oxygen usage by mitocondria)
-Creatine (Protects ATP during transport)
-NADH (Assists in ATP production)
-Piracetam (Assists in ATP Production, Reduces Lipofuscin)
-Lipoic Acid (Improves oxygen usage)
-Pregnenolone (NGF)
-Melatonin (Possible Tau Protein inhibitor)
-Cholinergics (i.e. Alpha GPC)
-Cholinesterase inhibitors (i.e. Galantamine, Marijuana)
-Glutamate activators (i.e. aniracetam)
-Phosphodiesterase-4 inhibitor (i.e. Rolipram) (Potential dangerous interaction with MAOI)
-Lagestroemia speciosa (Glucose Regulator)
-Cinnamon (CEppt)
-Colloidal Gold (Destroy beta amyloid deposits)
-Adequate Water Intake
-Alpha Lipoic Acid (Glutathione)
-Milk Thistle (Glutathione)
-Balanced Amino Acid Supplements
-Cholesterol-Lowering Supplement
-Other Anti-Myloid drug treatments

The list above doesn't include the other nootropics that would provide further benefits..

Other recommended supplements for Alzheimer patients:
-Bacopa monniera
-DHEA/Vasopressin/Oxytocin/Aspartate/Nitric Oxide/Octopamine/etc
-SAM-e
-Ashwagandha
-Rhodiola rosea
-Centrophenoxine/DMAE (Reduces Lipofuscin)
-Cranberry
-Pomegranate
-Pyrroloquinoline Quinone
-MSM
-Magnesium L-Threonate
-B-vitamins (Inositol, Vitamin E included)
-Omega-3 (Anti-inflammatory)
-Extra-virgin olive oil ((Oleocanthal) Anti-inflammatory)
-CDP-Choline
-Zeaxanthin/Lutein/Astaxanthin/C3G
-Ginkgo biloba
-Biopeprine
-Lemon Balm
-Phosphatidylserine
-MCTs (i.e. Coconut Oil)
-Magnesium Citrate (Potential Neuroprotection)
-Resveratrol/ECGC/Turmeric (Curcumin)/Caffeine (May inhibit mTOR activity)
-Vitamin-C (Easily obtainable from fruit and vegetable juice)
-Digestive Support (May prevent gastrointestinal problems associated with some of the nootropics)

And most importantly...EXERCISE and SOCIAL INTERACTION

Many of the drugs listed above should be consumed by the age of 50 to prevent Alzheimers from developing.
I'm aware that many of these drugs haven't been researched extensively for concluding data on its true benefits, but it certainly wouldn't pose a serious threat based on the available limited research, company history, and consumer reviews.
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KoolK3n
post Dec 13, 2011, 05:51 AM
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bump*

And current list of treatment:
http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_treatments.asp
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Flex
post Dec 13, 2011, 09:12 AM
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And the most effective treatment of all... Drum roll please... The same as for every other ailment in the west--diet, exercise and a healthy lifestyle. Controlling chronic low grade inflammation is probably the key to preventing most age related illness.

Best treatment IMO is to allow your body to regulate its own isoprenoid synthesis. This means drastically reducing saturated fatty acid intake and completely eliminating cholesterol from the diet. THERE IS NO RECOMMENDED DAILY INTAKE OF CHOLESTEROL. The RDA is the UPPER LIMIT.
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KoolK3n
post Dec 13, 2011, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Dec 13, 2011, 11:12 AM) *

Best treatment IMO is to allow your body to regulate its own isoprenoid synthesis. This means drastically reducing saturated fatty acid intake and completely eliminating cholesterol from the diet. THERE IS NO RECOMMENDED DAILY INTAKE OF CHOLESTEROL. The RDA is the UPPER LIMIT.


Yes, I got that from Fork Over Knives

QUOTE(Flex @ Dec 13, 2011, 11:12 AM) *

And the most effective treatment of all... Drum roll please... The same as for every other ailment in the west--diet, exercise and a healthy lifestyle. Controlling chronic low grade inflammation is probably the key to preventing most age related illness.


Yes I agree, but that doesn't mean medications won't play a beneficial role.
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KoolK3n
post Dec 13, 2011, 11:21 AM
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Another very important factor is what to do after aid has been given. It would sadden me if after treatment, the patient still did virtually nothing. It would be ideal to continually stimulate their thinking.

According to site:
"What are the improvements needed in the area of gerontology?

-Experts & researchers need to communicate & collaborate across disciplines, as well as use a uniform common language to enhance communication.
-Nurses need to analyze & reduce the complexity of these theories and place emphasis on the quality of life of older adults.
-Society must develop a positive view of older adults & their potential within society.
-Nurses must see older adults as unique individuals with valuable life experiences & recollections that should be utilized.
-Society must change or eliminate stereotypes about older adults."

URL: http://www.angelfire.com/ns/southeasternnu...sofAgingC3.html

I agree, the problem isn't just biological but also our culture plays a role. We need to motivate older adults to change their lifestyle, not just medications and diet. Many causes outside the body are overlooked at for older adults. Exercise is difficult, socializing is difficult, heathly diet is difficult, even money becomes an issue. As a society, we all need to contribute to advancing technologies needed for older adults. Exercise alone far beats almost any medication, so it would make sense to have them engaged in it. Obviously it is much more difficult for them to exercise, but with advancing technologies we can solve that problem.

Supplements and diet can be refinded to strengthen the body and allow for deeper higher intensity exercise which are possible given todays knowledge of the human body. The only problem is the lack of money, culture, and motivation.

Exercise can influence the brain but not diet. Diet can influence the brain AND the exercise. Introducing the diet first may be a good starting point, in conjunction with supplements and Internet. Then given whatever amount of time needed, proceed with exercise. But again, the three problems listed above are in the way.

I'm listening to a lecture while typing so disregard my terrible grammar, writing, and organization*

I think introducing them to newer more stimulating technologies such as the Internet where social interaction and learning is high needs to be implemented a lot more. Gives them something to do and stimulates deep thinking in the process as opposed to sitting on the couch watching TV waiting for the day their disease takes over completely.

Exercise or diet or medication alone will not cure Alzheimers. All three should work together and will cure the fatal neurodegenerative disease.

And lastly, pollution is a problem.
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KoolK3n
post Dec 15, 2011, 05:53 AM
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I added more onto the list. I am very puzzled as to why many of these compounds haven't yet been studied by scientists in Alzheimers patients. I mean this list and the basic mechanism of each ingredient took only a couple of months of research. If truly, the compounds in my list were ignored and/or not studied enough, I am deeply worried about the nature of available treatments. I'll probably go ahead and conduct my own studies in patients with all stages of Alzheimers in a couple years. Hence the Brainmeta mega-project topic thread...
I refuse to give aid to any patient unless they are willing to change their lifestyle.
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alisha99
post Jul 31, 2012, 01:10 AM
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Alzheimer's disease is the most common form of dementia. Deprenyl anti aging is the best treatment for Alzheimer's disease.
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