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> Want to start Piracetam, I'm about to order some Piracetam.. Should I take anything with it to potentiate it?
Yoder
post Jul 26, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Two Questions..

1. I keep reading things that say Piracetam has been declared a drug in the U.S. and isn't available for purchase. Is this true?? and are there still places that are selling it in the U.S.?

2. Is there something I should take with Piracetam to boost the effects? Or to prevent consumption of other neurotransmitters?

I'm not wanting to spend a lot of $$ on this but I must try it! smile.gif If there are any obvious things I should take with it, please let me know.

Thanks!

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Jupiter
post Jul 26, 2011, 02:17 PM
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No one would answer you ,people are selfish i conjecture .
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Yoder
post Jul 27, 2011, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE(Jupiter @ Jul 26, 2011, 02:17 PM) *

No one would answer you ,people are selfish i conjecture .


It's all good.. I was able to read more about it last night. I just went ahead and ordered Synaptine Ultra off of cerebralhealth.com. Was pretty expensive but I didn't have time to look around other places for everything.
Hope I get good results!
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Yoder
post Jul 29, 2011, 05:56 AM
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OK, so one more question...
I'm going to start 400mgs Pramiracetam and 300mgs Alpha GPC on Saturday.

I usually drink one night a week.. Will I experience any interactions with this combo?
Also, I occassionally take .5 - 1mg of Alprozolam if I'm having trouble sleeping. Any known interactions with xanax??

Thanks!
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Cerebram
post Jul 29, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Shouldn't be a problem. Xanax effects GABAA receptors
Racetams are thought effect AMPA Glutamate receptors.

From Wikipedia: Aniracetam

After a confirmed test of the anxiolytic efficacy in a mouse model, haloperidol, mecamylamine, and ketanserin were applied to determine the pathways aniracetam depends on to exert its anti-anxiety effects. Haloperidol completely reversed the anxiolytic effects, and mecamylamine and ketanserin nearly completely reversed the effects. This shows that aniracetam's anxiolytic mechanism is facilitated by D2/D3, nACh, and 5-HT2A receptors.[1]
Aniracetam has also been shown to selectively modulate the AMPA receptor[2] and was used as the parent compound to derive a class of drugs known as the ampakines that are being investigated as nootropics and neuroprotective drugs for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and other neurodegenerative conditions.1
Despite the fat solubility of aniracetam, its half-life is much shorter than that of common racetam analogs such as piracetam.[citation needed]
Commonly used doses are 750-3,000 mg daily usually taken in 2-3 doses.

In theory, AlphaGPC effect Acetylcholine levels: "Alpha GPC rapidly delivers choline to the brain across the blood-brain barrier and is a biosynthetic precursor of the acetylcholine neurotransmitter.[2] Alpha GPC is derived from highly purified soy lecithin.'


A thought regarding xanax. L-Theanine, Picamilon, or even Aniracetam may provide a similar result without the side effects. Aniracetam may take a few weeks to build to effective levels.

If you get desperate for a source of the Nootrops, check out our site 2thinkbetter.com. We have a store in Troy NY, the Cognitive Marketplace and we take phone orders and ship. However, if you know what you want, there are a number of good sources on the internet that charge less than we do...there are also some that charge more.
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Yoder
post Jul 29, 2011, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE(Cerebram @ Jul 29, 2011, 09:16 AM) *

Shouldn't be a problem. Xanax effects GABAA receptors
Racetams are thought effect AMPA Glutamate receptors.

From Wikipedia: Aniracetam

After a confirmed test of the anxiolytic efficacy in a mouse model, haloperidol, mecamylamine, and ketanserin were applied to determine the pathways aniracetam depends on to exert its anti-anxiety effects. Haloperidol completely reversed the anxiolytic effects, and mecamylamine and ketanserin nearly completely reversed the effects. This shows that aniracetam's anxiolytic mechanism is facilitated by D2/D3, nACh, and 5-HT2A receptors.[1]
Aniracetam has also been shown to selectively modulate the AMPA receptor[2] and was used as the parent compound to derive a class of drugs known as the ampakines that are being investigated as nootropics and neuroprotective drugs for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease and other neurodegenerative conditions.1
Despite the fat solubility of aniracetam, its half-life is much shorter than that of common racetam analogs such as piracetam.[citation needed]
Commonly used doses are 750-3,000 mg daily usually taken in 2-3 doses.

In theory, AlphaGPC effect Acetylcholine levels: "Alpha GPC rapidly delivers choline to the brain across the blood-brain barrier and is a biosynthetic precursor of the acetylcholine neurotransmitter.[2] Alpha GPC is derived from highly purified soy lecithin.'


A thought regarding xanax. L-Theanine, Picamilon, or even Aniracetam may provide a similar result without the side effects. Aniracetam may take a few weeks to build to effective levels.

If you get desperate for a source of the Nootrops, check out our site 2thinkbetter.com. We have a store in Troy NY, the Cognitive Marketplace and we take phone orders and ship. However, if you know what you want, there are a number of good sources on the internet that charge less than we do...there are also some that charge more.



Thanks for the info!
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DirkDiggler12010
post Aug 18, 2011, 11:42 AM
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I think TF Supplements still carries the 500 gram tub of Piracetam from SNS...I bought 2 tubs a few months ago for less than $40. eBay still has Piracetam products but the prices tend to be a little inflated if you ask me. And although I have become used to the foul-tasting Piracetam powder, it took a long time to get to that stage. It is just terrible. But you take the good with the bad...

Any type of choline supplement will work synergistically with piracetam...and almost all nootropics go well with piracetam. So it mixes well with anything, pretty much.
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ozo
post Aug 29, 2011, 01:02 PM
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I'm new here, so I don't know how posting sources works. I have a good piracetam at $19 per 500g tub. PM me if you want a link.
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Isochroma
post Oct 06, 2011, 05:58 PM
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The most powerful potentiator of Piracetam is fish oil. I used to take 7g/day and now take 28g/day. It works incredibly well, especially for the visual sharpness and saturation!

The second most important potentiator is B-complex vitamins (I take B-100 which is 100mg of each b-vitamin).
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Flex
post Oct 06, 2011, 06:00 PM
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Potentiator? Evidence?
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Isochroma
post Oct 06, 2011, 06:15 PM
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Yoder, check your inbox. I've PM'd you regarding this topic. I can tell you a lot more about how to maximally potentiate Piracetam - we'll chat via PM only so as to avoid posters like the one above who only create problems.

I will not be viewing or replying to this thread any further. If anyone besides Flex is interested to know how to get the most out of racetams, I have extensive and successful experience doing so. Just PM me and I'll give you the info.
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Flex
post Oct 06, 2011, 07:25 PM
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Need I say more? Me thinks not smile.gif
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lucid_dream
post Oct 07, 2011, 01:11 AM
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i missed what was posted that offended, but have some idea. Just a reminder that the subject matter of posts are fair game for criticism, but let's avoid personal attacks since they are generally irrelevant to the subject under discussion, and because they serve little purpose but to inflame and irritate those involved.
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Tone
post Oct 07, 2011, 02:19 AM
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The exact opposite of paracetam, AMPA Antagonists, are what people need to feel well, just like the exact opposite of SSRIs is an SSRE. The things that are bad are what is popular, available and believed in. EG. Prozac, Racetams, which both induce dysphoria. We live in opposite world and of course hardly anyone will believe this & dismiss it as a fringe opinion, and continue to say Boosting AMPA and 5-HT is good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPA_receptor#Antagonists

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRE
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KoolK3n
post Oct 07, 2011, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE(Isochroma @ Oct 06, 2011, 08:58 PM) *

The most powerful potentiator of Piracetam is fish oil. I used to take 7g/day and now take 28g/day. It works incredibly well, especially for the visual sharpness and saturation!

The second most important potentiator is B-complex vitamins (I take B-100 which is 100mg of each b-vitamin).


I'm inclined to believe that you should cut back on some of those B-Vitamins. (i.e. 100mg of vitamin B-6 can have adverse effects) Many B-Vitamins should be in the dosage of mcg, definitely not 100mg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B6

You should also consider cutting back on fish oil. I only take 1 gram, but 3-5 grams should be the limit. If your worried about a possible overdose, check out Flax seed oil as it provides the same benefits.
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Flex
post Oct 07, 2011, 06:41 AM
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You are right about the B-vit Ken; however, a B100 complex takes this into account, as you will see on product labels. I go for the B50 myself.

No real harm in mega-dosing fish oil. Supplemental forms are generally pretty good as far as removing contaminants (mercury etc.). I do agree with the flax so long as adequate cofactors for elongases are provided in the diet.

As far as fish oil being a potentiator of piracetam, I have to disagree based on my understanding of potentiators. Sure the goal of piracetam is to make the cell membranes more fluid. Sure fish oil will do the same thing. Does that mean they act via the same mechanism, and in a concerted fashion? That I have never seen evidence for myself, but if it is true, I would love to hear more.

Last but certainly not least Tone, I think you are spot on! First do no harm right? Certainly many people are doing harm if they experience side effects. There is a reason why the US health care system is the third leading cause of death in the country!
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Tone
post Oct 08, 2011, 08:39 PM
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lowering AMPA a little bit instead of raising it a little bit makes the endorphin and other well-being systems of the brain work better and extends the life of brain cells. as a quick simplistic post; AMPA and Serotonin are bad unless lowered a little bit; and endorphins are good. You will get a higher IQ boost from feeling well and studying more than from messing with boosting the neurochemicals that form memory & learning. Boosted Choline & AMPA will f you up with nasty effects instead of make you smarter.
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KoolK3n
post Oct 08, 2011, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(Tone @ Oct 08, 2011, 11:39 PM) *

Boosted Choline & AMPA will f you up with nasty effects instead of make you smarter.


I understand AMPA, but why choline?
What do you think of DLPA?
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Tone
post Oct 10, 2011, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE(KoolK3n @ Oct 09, 2011, 12:38 AM) *

QUOTE(Tone @ Oct 08, 2011, 11:39 PM) *

Boosted Choline & AMPA will f you up with nasty effects instead of make you smarter.


I understand AMPA, but why choline?
What do you think of DLPA?


I think that maybe N-Acetyl-Tyrosine would make more sense to try since its the next intermediate step anyway, unless you are looking for the separate effects of the D isomer of PA.

why choline - because if you go to the bathroom enough and dont have a dry mouth, you dont need more choline, you need more studying and learning stimulation. if you have a dry mouth and other symptoms of a deficiency, by all means boost AcetylCholine. If you boost choline without being a deficiency person, then i recommend you have motion sickness pills on hand for every-time you get on a car or bus !!

Part of my rationale could be that i am loaded with choline. Im a person of high learning & recall, frequent urination, and always getting motion sick, and other aspects of high choline activity - i have to end up taking mild Anti-Cholinergics (Antihistamine) to stop from wanting to throw up !!

I dislike being a person of higher serotonin, choline and AMPA than normal, with endorphin & dopamine deficiency syndrome. They dont treat it in mainstream psychiatry.
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Flex
post Oct 10, 2011, 06:48 PM
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Anticholinergics and choline are two very different things. Choline is a vital component of cell membranes (every cell in the body) as opposed to anticholinergics acting on acetylcholine (neurotransmitter, also present in body, but at neuromuscular junction).
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Requiel
post Oct 14, 2011, 08:51 PM
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Hey,

I'm interested in enhancing piracetams effects as well. I've tried to PM Isochroma, but unfortunately his inbox is full so that is not possible.

I would greatly appreciate if someone could share me his PM about potentiating piracetam by sending me a message.

Thanks in advance.
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Teerayoot
post Oct 15, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Piracetam efficiency effect should public to everyone .
why PM
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RxMAN
post Jan 30, 2012, 09:19 AM
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I'm new to the forum, but I wanted to respond about Piracetam beind deemed a drug, and being still available in the US. Piracetam is listed in the FDA's approved bulk compounding list. Which means compounding pharmacies can legally compound it, but you will need a prescription from your doctor. I own a compounding pharmacy in FL and we are doing a big push with smart drugs...
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2cr4zy4u
post Feb 15, 2012, 01:58 AM
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Honestly, I personally know of Aniracetam working well with Piracetam. Someone I know takes Neuro Boost piracetam, from Smart Drugs for Thought, and stacks it with a hint of Aniracetam. Reason for this is...Aniracetam actually increases what you already know within your memory and Piracetam increases the ability to retain knowledge and information. This is true my friend. Also look into higher grades of Choline such as Alpha GPC, Citicholine, or CDP Choline (this is in alpha brain btw lol). It's all a matter of trial and error and taking it into moderation. Good luck on your piracetam usages, it works for me.
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE(Yoder @ Jul 29, 2011, 05:56 AM) *

I usually drink one night a week.. Will I experience any interactions with this combo?


YES. racetams potentiate alcohol. my rule of thumb is: x shots + a few grams piracetam or aniracetam = 2x shots
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 11:06 AM
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QUOTE(Tone @ Oct 07, 2011, 02:19 AM) *

The exact opposite of paracetam, AMPA Antagonists, are what people need to feel well, just like the exact opposite of SSRIs is an SSRE...


wrong. "the exact opposite of paracetam [sic]" is ill-defined, as piracetam's neuropharmacology is ill-understood. metabolism, permeability, excitability, ACh, AMPA, all of the above?

wikipedia Piracetam#Mechanisms_of_action

QUOTE(Tone @ Oct 07, 2011, 02:19 AM) *

Prozac, Racetams, which both induce dysphoria.


wrong. it induces good feelings in me, and many many many others.
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Maverick23
post Mar 06, 2012, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE(sambocyn @ Feb 18, 2012, 10:58 AM) *

QUOTE(Yoder @ Jul 29, 2011, 05:56 AM) *

I usually drink one night a week.. Will I experience any interactions with this combo?


YES. racetams potentiate alcohol. my rule of thumb is: x shots + a few grams piracetam or aniracetam = 2x shots


Do you also experience "enhanced" hangovers when combining alcohol with piracetam? When taking piracetam I watch my alcohol consumption quite (stick to only one type of alcohol and/or a couple of beers + water through out the night) carefully but what usually ends up happening is me feeling quite sober at the end of the night but then waking up with a massive hangover (even though I drink plenty of water before going to bed).
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MindSupplementsGal
post Mar 06, 2012, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE(Yoder @ Jul 26, 2011, 07:47 AM) *

Two Questions..

1. I keep reading things that say Piracetam has been declared a drug in the U.S. and isn't available for purchase. Is this true?? and are there still places that are selling it in the U.S.?

2. Is there something I should take with Piracetam to boost the effects? Or to prevent consumption of other neurotransmitters?

I'm not wanting to spend a lot of $$ on this but I must try it! smile.gif If there are any obvious things I should take with it, please let me know.

Thanks!



** Hi Yoder, I asked the FDA and they told me it is a hoax that some of the unethical supplement companies that are trying to make money off of customers are doing. So, anywhere you see that, it is just a money making gimmick. (note, the FDA did not say those exact words). Look for the Supplement Diva on you tube Ask her questions too. She recommends Mind Boost and it is GREAT!!!
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2cr4zy4u
post Apr 27, 2012, 10:35 AM
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QUOTE(2cr4zy4u @ Feb 15, 2012, 01:58 AM) *

Honestly, I personally know of Aniracetam working well with Piracetam. Someone I know takes Neuro Boost piracetam, from Smart Drugs for Thought, and stacks it with a hint of Aniracetam. Reason for this is...Aniracetam actually increases what you already know within your memory and Piracetam increases the ability to retain knowledge and information. This is true my friend. Also look into higher grades of Choline such as Alpha GPC, Citicholine, or CDP Choline (this is in alpha brain btw lol). It's all a matter of trial and error and taking it into moderation. Good luck on your piracetam usages, it works for me.



Update:

I personally gave this a test run 13 days ago and have experienced positive results. The Piracetam and Aniracetam certainly potentiate one another. The effects received from the synergy of the two racetams resulted in enhanced focus and concetration. However, I do recommend ingesting some solid foods with the use of the Aniracetam, for my 2nd day of use without food resulted in bearable slight nausea. The outcome has proved to me that Aniracetam would be one of the best potentiators when using Piracetam. Piracetam alone is great, but the Aniracetam makes it 2 or 3 times more effective. Honestly, I only consume 750mg (1 dose) of Aniracetam with 3,200mg of Piracetam and I'm just fine. Sometimes I will increase the dosage to two but refrain from doing so in the late evenings because of the stimulating effects Aniracetam produces. It seems to be great to enhance intelligence as well according to this document Human studies have established that Aniracetam is a powerful cognitive enhancer. Study participants improved their scores on a number of intelligence and memory tests (Saletu, 1980, 1984). I found at http://www.smartdrugsforthought.com/what-is-aniracetam I have not noticed a difference in the use of Piracetam + Aniracetam when I added in a cholinergic source for 2 days (this being Alpha GPC), but this may enhance effects for most individuals.
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