Methylene Blue, Experiences are gathering, and looks extremely promising Options

[aaron43]

I have never posted on here, and it won't allow me to post a url so, since I can't type out all the information...

type in google: "Longecity Methylene Blue" its the most current forum

I highly encourage you to take a look

[lucid_dream]

i'm skeptical of the longevity claims of methylene blue given intra-species differences (between mice and rats) and gender differences. I have seen some interesting results regarding it as a possible treatment for Alzheimers. MB is claimed to be a MAOI.

[aaron43]

i'm skeptical of the longevity claims of methylene blue given intra-species differences (between mice and rats) and gender differences. I have seen some interesting results regarding it as a possible treatment for Alzheimers. MB is claimed to be a MAOI.

It has already been used extensively in humans. There is also numerous studies on the safety in humans, provided in the forum I recommended. It is used to treat malaria, urinary tract infection, dye tumors for surgery, among others already. Its safety profile is excellent.

I'm not claiming longevity use for this supplement even though it is possible, Methylene blue is a true cognitive enhancer and works differently than other nootropics and the racetams. As if it seems to be newly found corner stone in the nootropic world.

MB is a RIMA, a Reversible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A. These types of MAOI do not have the dietary restrictions that regular MAOI's have, you can eat cheese, ect thing with tyramine. Note that this effect is usually at higher doses as well, and is not entirely present in a nootropic dose. MAOI does not = Nootropic Benefits

When used for malaria doses or anything else besides nootropic use, it is used in the milligram level. For nootropic purposes, it is used at 60 micrograms. Thus, making it short and simple, a very effective non-toxic nootropic that is optimized at lower levels instead of higher levels. The less the better.

There is a lot of information in longecity forum post, take the time to read it, this is worth it, and all the information you need and question is already in the forum

search "methylene blue aaron43"

"Methylene blue (MB) is a metabolic enhancer that has been demonstrated to improve memory retention when given post-training in low doses in a variety of tasks in rats, including inhibitory avoidance, spatial memory (in both normal and metabolically-impaired subjects), object recognition, and habituation to a familiar environment. MB has been also shown to improve memory retention of extinction of fear conditioning in the rat."

"The findings suggest that repeated post-training MB may improve memory consolidation between days of learning by an induction in the enzyme cytochrome oxidase, leading to increased metabolic capacity in brain regions requiring more energy during discrimination learning."

[lucid_dream]

I checked the longecity forum and found mainly anecdotal accounts, which are generally non-informative. Are there any published studies showing any cognitive enhancement in normal humans in carefully controlled double-blind studies?

I also noticed that most or all of the studies claiming memory enhancement in rats come out of F. Gonzalez-Lima's lab, which is somewhat suspicious if other labs cannot validate or extend their studies. You would think that if this was a true nootropic, that a multitude of different labs would be publishing over it.

[aaron43]

I checked the longecity forum and found mainly anecdotal accounts, which are generally non-informative. Are there any published studies showing any cognitive enhancement in normal humans in carefully controlled double-blind studies?

Well this dam website won't let me post any URL's so this abstract is from one of the many studies posted on the thread, so it's going to have to do. For access to links, along with many comments/questions/worries already answered in the forum (type in google "methylene blue aaron43") It is the longecity forum.
I personally feel like you breezed through my forum, wrongly categorized it as annecdotal and non-informative, which is a result of skimming and reading only what catches the eye. There are many studies provided in the forum, that prove the efficiency, the safety, the cost, as well an additional bonus of anecdotal evidence that will help the unscientific mind become familiar and know what to expect with Methylene Blue.

"Methylene blue (MB) is a metabolic enhancer that has been demonstrated to improve memory retention when given post-training in low doses in a variety of tasks in rats, including inhibitory avoidance, spatial memory (in both normal and metabolically-impaired subjects), object recognition, and habituation to a familiar environment. MB has been also shown to improve memory retention of extinction of fear conditioning in the rat. No experiments have been conducted to determine the effects of MB on more complex learning such as in discrimination tasks that require repeated days of training. This study examined the effects of daily MB on spatial discrimination memory in a baited holeboard maze. Following three days of discrimination training, subjects treated daily with post-training MB (1 mg/kg) reliably discriminated between rewarded (baited) and non-rewarded (unbaited) trials as indicated by a greater number of correct responses on rewarded trials than non-rewarded trials during the last three days of discrimination training. No such discrimination effects were observed in the saline-treated control group during the same training period. To determine whether the memory-enhancing effects of MB are associated with an increase in metabolic energy capacity in the brain, cytochrome c oxidation was measured in brains from rats treated with 1 mg/kg MB or saline for three days. The number of daily injections was chosen based on the behavioral data which revealed group differences three days after the beginning of MB treatment. Brain cytochrome oxidase activity in the MB-treated group was approximately 70% higher than in saline-treated rats. The findings suggest that repeated post-training MB may improve memory consolidation between days of learning by an induction in the enzyme cytochrome oxidase, leading to increased metabolic capacity in brain regions requiring more energy during discrimination learning.

For interspecies problems: Animals are always the first in line to give an indication of whether humans should pursue a product for its beneficial properties based off the animals response. To logically dismiss this, give a rat some LSD, it will trip balls. Give a human some LSD, it will trip balls.

And for dismissing the studies:
I would first like to ask what is your expertise, do you have any degrees towards this subject, who are you to dismiss the work of Prof. F. Gonzalez-Lima, University of Texas at Austin, who has provided many studies/conclusive laboratory results/ probably has more knowledge than anyone on this subject. In dismissing this you are also dismissing the work of Prof. Riha PD, Bruchey AK, Echevarria DJ, Kathryn M. Wrubel, Monica A. Maldonado, David McCollum, Callaway NL, Julio C. Rojas, Nicola Simola, Bailey A. Kermath, Jacqueline R. Kane, Timothy Schallert among many others. That is quite a list full of educational/laboratorial experience to dismiss.

That type of thinking would have lead to the rejection of Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. Since no one at the time, maybe save a slight few, would have been able to follow up the studies.

[lucid_dream]

i believe you must post 5 times before being able to post urls. This is to discourage spam postings.

Cytochrome C oxidation is not the only marker for metabolic energy capacity, and methylene blue is not unique in its abilities to oxidize Cyt C, nor is it the most effective chemical.

One of the first things you learn in science is, "Don't believe everything you read in science". You need to exercise some critical thought over everything you read. If you're a teenager, which you probably are based on your postings, then your prefrontal cortex is not fully developed and therefore your inability for critical thought is excusable this time.

Besides the fact that most of these methylene blue studies come out of a single lab (which in itself is suspicious), you should also consider the quality of the journals where these studies are published. If the evidence was strong that MB was offering substantial cognitive or memory benefits, you would see the studies published in better journals, like J. Neurosci, or better still, Nature or Science.

A healthy degree of skepticism is always a good thing. Your Einstein comment is completely irrelevant. Einstein's theory was at least very well thought out and rigorously demonstrated. Your ideas are more crackpot and reek of snake oil.

Show me some double-blind studies showing any memory enhancing effects of MB. The ones you cited are not double-blind. Come up with some compelling arguments to convince me that whatever personal experience you have with MB is not due to wishful thinking and placebo effects. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.

[aaron43]

Come up with some compelling arguments to convince me that whatever personal experience you have with MB is not due to wishful thinking and placebo effects. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.

Your wasting everyone's time by undermining intrigue with an irrational dose of skepicism while twittling your fingers in a methaphorical asshole of your current nootropic knowledge.
I am expanding public knowledge with innovation, which is quite the opposite of wasting anyone's time and, as a side effect, could belittle "know it all" personalities with ego's tied to their messaging board.

[DaneV]

Hi aaron,
Are you still using mb daily ? Can you tell me the effects you got from it?
No tolerance issues yet ?

[lucid_dream]

Come up with some compelling arguments to convince me that whatever personal experience you have with MB is not due to wishful thinking and placebo effects. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.

Your wasting everyone's time by undermining intrigue with an irrational dose of skepicism while twittling your fingers in a methaphorical asshole of your current nootropic knowledge.
I am expanding public knowledge with innovation, which is quite the opposite of wasting anyone's time and, as a side effect, could belittle "know it all" personalities with ego's tied to their messaging board.

well, you sure told me. Way to distract attention from your lack of hard evidence. ;-)

Btw, you're not being innovative by drinking fish bowl cleaner and then touting its benefits. It's rather foolish, actually. Btw, I have some toilet bowl cleaner you can try if you want. Show me the double-blind studies demonstrating that methylene blue has nootropic effects. Otherwise, you're just engaged in fantasy pharmacology and wishful thinking. You must like all the attention you receive in the forums, though.

[aaron43]

Hi aaron,
Are you still using mb daily ? Can you tell me the effects you got from it?
No tolerance issues yet ?

It works everyday, everytime I take it. It's not really like a racetam where there are subjective effects at first and the longer you take it the better it works. Its seems like instant results. There isn't any tolerance issues either, and it's nice because it's actually the lower the dose the more effective it is, making tolerance paradoxical.
The effects, without going into personal experience to make it short and easy: Learning is amplified, not only do you perceptionalize what your learning better, but when MB is taken post-training, it's as if MB organizes what you learned in your brain without losing anything, and allows for perfect smooth retrieval when implementing the newly learned idea. It really facilitates the concept "see it once and learn it". It also gives clean energy, not any type of cracked out energy, I never feel tired anymore, but yet I can take MB before bed and sleep great. When I learn and make new connections, I get these bursts of euphoric energy, and this I feel is the "extinction of fear effect" coming into play. If I'm learning something, to get rid of an old idea or habit, this positive emotion (provided by MB + learning) puts weight on what I just learned, in effect, not letting it pass through one ear and out the other. Motivation is increased through this aspect as well, the more you learn, the more confident you become in the subject. The more confident you become the more you want to expand.

well, you sure told me. Way to distract attention from your lack of hard evidence. ;-)

Btw, you're not being innovative by drinking fish bowl cleaner and then touting its benefits. It's rather foolish, actually. Btw, I have some toilet bowl cleaner you can try if you want. Show me the double-blind studies demonstrating that methylene blue has nootropic effects. Otherwise, you're just engaged in fantasy pharmacology and wishful thinking. You must like all the attention you receive in the forums, though.

Way to distract from the idea that you have NO credentials to dismiss results from a blind or academic study ;-)

You classifying it as a fish bowl cleaner/recommending a toilet bowl cleaner, I wouldn't classify it as foolish but ignorant. You would then know that this fish bowl cleaner is used in surgery, extensively on humans, and there are many studies exemplifying its safety.
If you read my forum, then all your question's would have been answered about safety, effectiveness, "calling it a fish bowl cleaner". This further exemplifies your lack of credentials; you are quick to dismiss, but reluctant to read in detail.
I actually don't care about any attention as I am trying to learn more about MB and get progressive ideas from other people who have interest in this field. BUT, for some reason I get the attention of people who have nothing to add or contribute except for skepticism, which by itself, is useless. Meaning, that you are uselss by posting on my board (as well as Isochroma's), posting skepticism directed towards newly facilitated information without adding anything yourself. Either do something productive or get out of the way.

As far as a double blind study, I have one, but just like a naggy girlfriend, I'm going to make you work for it.

[lucid_dream]

As far as a double blind study, I have one, but just like a naggy girlfriend, I'm going to make you work for it.

in your case, it's a naggy Mom who's pounding on your bedroom door right now, wondering what's going on inside. Better pull your pants up and let her in.

Really, it's not my problem if you're unable or unwilling to exercise critical thought. You want to fall prey to placebo effects and blindly believe everything you find on Pubmed, be my guest. See how far you get with that. But don't think that you're going to spread your misinformation around here without getting called to task for it. All you have shared with us are MB anecdotes and some rather shoddy science in second-rate journals, but no rigorous double-blind studies demonstrating nootropic effects. Why you would want to convince other people that methylene blue is a nootropic that they should try is an interesting question for your psychologist and an answer would probably shed light on this thread.

You have a lot of learning to do. Better double up on that MB!

[aaron43]

Really, it's not my problem that you're unable to exercise critical thought. You want to fall prey to placebo effects and blindly believe everything you read in second-hand science journals, be my guest. See how far you get with that. But don't think that you're going to spread your misinformation around here. Any claims not backed up will be shot down. All you have are your own personal anecdotal experiences with methylene blue and no rigorous double-blind studies demonstrating its nootropic effects. Why you would want to convince other people that methylene blue is a nootropic that they should try is an interesting question for your psychologist or psychiatrist. It's somewhat odd that you consider your actions as innovative since they're anything but. You have a lot of learning to do. Better double or triple up on that MB! ;-)

lol (laugh out loud). Critical thought? Your right, blindly shooting down any advancement of intrigue in a supplement that is backed by academic, blind, AND double blind studies is the smartest thing to do. I guess demanding a double-blind study, ignoring previous studies and annecdotal reports, and expecting to be hand fed information is critical thinking. lola (laugh out loud again). You remind me of a toddler trying to boost their ego.
Hmm, and according to your logic, if something is effective, I should keep quite and let everyone be subjected to pharmaceuticals and their side effects without the knowledge of an effective alternative.
Did you know about methylene blue before I posted this, did you have any information on it? No. So yes, innovative. As in, people don't know, and I'm facilitating new information to them.
Your intelligence is so great, that you must be smarter than all the professors that I listed, that you must be smarter than TauRx for making it into a pharmaceutical at high doses for alzheimers, that apparently you have access to a laboratory where you are sure that you can disprove the work of vigilant academic professionals.

You sir, are a joke to this board. A linear thinker to the world. And useless in the field of nootropic expansion.

[lucid_dream]

you missed the point that you've produced no double-blind studies supporting your claim of MB as a nootropic. Even many of the anecdotal reports at your link are from people who say that MB did nothing for them. You're conflating the issue by throwing in Alzheimers, where I already acknowledged at the start of this thread that MB 'might' be useful for because of its apparent tau dissolving properties, though it still has not been rigorously demonstrated that it would be an effective treatment.

Just face the fact that you are either 1) a victim of the placebo effect, or 2) intentionally misleading people with regard to MBs nootropic effects.

Why don't you clarify which of the above two is true?

Btw, I knew about MB long before your posting. And I must say that your incoherent postings do not make a good case for using MB as a nootropic. I feel like I lost an IQ point just reading your posts. Hopefully it's reversible. Please do everyone reading this thread a favor and dose a few piracetams or hydergine before replying.

You sir, are a joke to this board. A linear thinker to the world. And useless in the field of nootropic expansion.

the irony here is amusing

[aaron43]

you missed the point that you've produced no double-blind studies supporting your claim of MB as a nootropic. Even many of the anecdotal reports at your link are from people who say that MB did nothing for them. You're conflating the issue by throwing in Alzheimers, where I already acknowledged at the start of this thread that MB 'might' be useful for because of its apparent tau dissolving properties, though it still has not been rigorously demonstrated that it would be an effective treatment.

Just face the fact that you are either 1) a victim of the placebo effect, or 2) intentionally misleading people with regard to MBs nootropic effects.

Why don't you clarify which of the above two is true?

Many who did not dose at the proper level of ~60 micrograms may have said it did nothing for them. Then again, you fail to realize that people who are probably reading these forums, are into nootropics and health. When MB is taken with CQ-10 or Idebenone, it does not work properly and the results are skewed. Thus showing that anecdotal claims of ineffectiveness are just as subject to anecdotal claims of effectiveness. That being said, one might ask next, then do you have studies to prove it works? Yes I do. And its all on the internet. Annecdotal evidence is necessary to confirm the scientific studies and effectiveness in vivo if it is a subject about human intellectual improvement.
You missed the point, that I have a double-blind study, but since your demanding it and seeking to validify whatever egotistical problem you have by demanding it, I shall not.
Anyone who pm's me, who really feels that nothing can be physically effective without the validity of being described as a "double-blind" study, I shall give you a double blind study. Except Lucid_dream of course lol.
Shows how ignorant you are: What gain would I get from intentionally misleading people about the generic chemical of methylene blue. Not once have I focused the spot light on me for personal gain, except to further facilitate a better understanding of the chemical.

Just face the facts that you are either: 1) wrong, or 2) egotistically driven to diminish efforts on the expansion of knowledge so as to satisfy and pet your underlying desire to "know it all" as it is exemplified in your post and in your exuberant title as "God".

You belong working at Savons. Where you can memorize all the products in the store. That's your world. But you'll never have a say in what new products get stocked.

I hope you lost an IQ point, it will do all us a favor in getting rid of demeaning know-it all's.

[lucid_dream]

Many who did not dose at the proper level of ~60 micrograms may have said it did nothing for them. Then again, you fail to realize that people who are probably reading these forums, are into nootropics and health. When MB is taken with CQ-10 or Idebenone, it does not work properly and the results are skewed. Thus showing that anecdotal claims of ineffectiveness are just as subject to anecdotal claims of effectiveness. That being said, one might ask next, then do you have studies to prove it works? Yes I do. And its all on the internet. Annecdotal evidence is necessary to confirm the scientific studies and effectiveness in vivo if it is a subject about human intellectual improvement.
You missed the point, that I have a double-blind study, but since your demanding it and seeking to validify whatever egotistical problem you have by demanding it, I shall not.
Anyone who pm's me, who really feels that nothing can be physically effective without the validity of being described as a "double-blind" study, I shall give you a double blind study. Except Lucid_dream of course lol.
Shows how ignorant you are: What gain would I get from intentionally misleading people about the generic chemical of methylene blue. Not once have I focused the spot light on me for personal gain, except to further facilitate a better understanding of the chemical.

Just face the facts that you are either: 1) wrong, or 2) egotistically driven to diminish efforts on the expansion of knowledge so as to satisfy and pet your underlying desire to "know it all" as it is exemplified in your post and in your exuberant title as "God".

You belong working at Savons. Where you can memorize all the products in the store. That's your world. But you'll never have a say in what new products get stocked.

I hope you lost an IQ point, it will do all us a favor in getting rid of demeaning know-it all's.

with your post above, you've just thoroughly discredited yourself, so let me give you a heartfelt 'thanks' for saving me the time of formulating a refutation, since that leaves me time for more interesting matters. The thread is all yours! Naturally, I reserve the right to jump in at any time to correct your many misunderstandings and armchair science.

[aaron43]

so let me give you a heartfelt 'thanks' for saving me the time of formulating a refutation, since that leaves me time for more interesting matters. The thread is all yours! Naturally, I reserve the right to jump in at any time to correct your many misunderstandings and armchair science.

The pleasure is all mine, you are now free to stick your nose back in that metaphorical asshole of current nootropic knowledge

For armchair science? You still haven't answered my question about what your credentials are. They must be good to dismiss 7+ studies. I personally think you framed a bag of doritos and deemed yourself authoritative.