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> What makes people happy?, What makes you personally happy
orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 06:23 AM
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I was reading along list in one of my psychology books , it was about what people think makes people happy.
It was a meta analysis an considered many options. This study came up with Love/Marriage, Vocation,
and genetics. Money was listed as making people modestly happy.
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Joesus
post May 12, 2011, 06:58 AM
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So relatively speaking nothing makes you happy. In a relative world where our beliefs change with perspectives of reality, it is our choice to accept or deny the attachment to objects or conditions of relationship that creates happiness, but the object of desire or affection cannot manipulate or control our thoughts and attachments at any kind of permanent level.
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orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 07:05 AM
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This was about people in general, in the Western World. It was not looking at things from a metaphysical
perspective, it was looking at correlates to happiness. People have infinite want with finite resources to obtain
the wanted thing.
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orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 07:09 AM
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"but the object of desire or affection cannot manipulate or control our thoughts and attachments at any kind of permanent level." what do you mean by this?

People have a lot less "free will" than they believe, our genetics determine our fayte.

The desire for something can change behaviors, make people do things that they would not
of done previously, which effects your brain
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Joesus
post May 12, 2011, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 03:09 PM) *

"but the object of desire or affection cannot manipulate or control our thoughts and attachments at any kind of permanent level." what do you mean by this?

People have a lot less "free will" than they believe, our genetics determine our fayte.

The desire for something can change behaviors, make people do things that they would not
of done previously, which effects your brain

Historical precepts do not determine an amount of free will nor does our DNA. Our states of conscious awareness reflects itself in the DNA we observe as active and inactive. It is not the other way around.

If you believe you can be manipulated by the attachment to an object of desire without the ability to observe yourself and your attachments, and that you are an absolute victim, then you may surrender your sensibility to the idea as your only reality. But that does not necessarily make it a standard and an absolute, anymore than the determination that was made that the earth was flat and the sun circled the earth. Fate is not determined by some outside force within reality. It is an unfolding of your own making.

Just because someone has not been educated in the experience of reality does not make ignorant relative truths absolute. Nothing makes anyone do what they will. We as a species accept what we want to believe and act according to the boundaries accepted within the belief, even to the point of blind acceptance. We create every impulse and authority that is necessary to expand the contrast and the experiences of reality, from our time of birth, our parents, our nationality and country where we live.
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Phi
post May 12, 2011, 11:28 AM
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I think I used to think that perspective alone could create happiness. Now I think that being deeply involved with the changes you would like to see in the world creates happiness, along with staying physically and mentally optimal while challenging yourself at both.

Then in between all that is:
Sex
Food
Seep
Friends
...I was guessing this is the direction you were initially heading in??

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orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 12, 2011, 12:31 PM) *

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 03:09 PM) *

"but the object of desire or affection cannot manipulate or control our thoughts and attachments at any kind of permanent level." what do you mean by this?

People have a lot less "free will" than they believe, our genetics determine our fayte.

The desire for something can change behaviors, make people do things that they would not
of done previously, which effects your brain

Historical precepts do not determine an amount of free will nor does our DNA. Our states of conscious awareness reflects itself in the DNA we observe as active and inactive. It is not the other way around.

If you believe you can be manipulated by the attachment to an object of desire without the ability to observe yourself and your attachments, and that you are an absolute victim, then you may surrender your sensibility to the idea as your only reality. But that does not necessarily make it a standard and an absolute, anymore than the determination that was made that the earth was flat and the sun circled the earth. Fate is not determined by some outside force within reality. It is an unfolding of your own making.

Just because someone has not been educated in the experience of reality does not make ignorant relative truths absolute. Nothing makes anyone do what they will. We as a species accept what we want to believe and act according to the boundaries accepted within the belief, even to the point of blind acceptance. We create every impulse and authority that is necessary to expand the contrast and the experiences of reality, from our time of birth, our parents, our nationality and country where we live.


What people do, think, feel, etc is determined by our genes our past, we are a product of evolution
people are not special, we observe the world through human eyes, people are not evolved
to experience "reality", we are as we are to survive in our environment,
reductionism is the facts of life, science changes because people can understand the micro
and macro world better through the scientific method, people want to fell special
so bad, though we are not
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orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ May 12, 2011, 03:28 PM) *

I think I used to think that perspective alone could create happiness. Now I think that being deeply involved with the changes you would like to see in the world creates happiness, along with staying physically and mentally optimal while challenging yourself at both.

Then in between all that is:
Sex
Food
Seep
Friends
...I was guessing this is the direction you were initially heading in??


Me, well yes. Food makes us happy, because it has to, if we don't eat
we die, no sex no more people, friends/allies aid our survival
What I was refereeing to about happiness, is that what people think
makes us happy may not be true
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Phi
post May 12, 2011, 01:02 PM
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this topic reminded me of what I'm personally trying...not to aim for a much higher state of happiness right away, but to increase my baseline each day. By keeping away from things that lower my baseline I seem to find all the positives slowly building a happier state of mind each day that I wake up.

But of course... I could be full of shit and this will all fall apart smile.gif
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orangesand
post May 12, 2011, 01:06 PM
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The happiness , what makes people happy , that I was speaking of
is bio-pyscho-social, that is a currently adopted model for humans
interaction with each other in Pyschology circles, the APA, to understand happiness our Genetics
must be considered, along with our Society, we act way X because of the society that we live in, along with our psychology, how one's can function in their given society
our social interaction effects our brain/body and our ability to operate socially is based upon one's psychological
health
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Joesus
post May 12, 2011, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 08:51 PM) *


What people do, think, feel, etc is determined by our genes our past, we are a product of evolution
people are not special, we observe the world through human eyes, people are not evolved
to experience "reality", we are as we are to survive in our environment,
reductionism is the facts of life, science changes because people can understand the micro
and macro world better through the scientific method, people want to fell special
so bad, though we are not



Mmmmmmmmmmm ...No.
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orangesand
post May 13, 2011, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 12, 2011, 05:29 PM) *

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 08:51 PM) *


What people do, think, feel, etc is determined by our genes our past, we are a product of evolution
people are not special, we observe the world through human eyes, people are not evolved
to experience "reality", we are as we are to survive in our environment,
reductionism is the facts of life, science changes because people can understand the micro
and macro world better through the scientific method, people want to fell special
so bad, though we are not



Mmmmmmmmmmm ...No.

Why not? The truth may be painful ,not want you want, you can talk yourself into believing anything,
there is no validation for your assertions, the classic defense mechanism is employed here, negate the
other without understanding, science appears to be very foreign to you, what factual basis to you have in
your assertions( the classic beyond man understanding, is folly, not taken for a dime by scientists)?
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orangesand
post May 13, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Do you have a through understanding of biology/naturalism? If not how
can you negate my statement (other than by rhetoric)? A profound
understanding of the world comes through science and being able to
replicate phenomena, once mysterious things are understand to be based
on natural law, they fade away as mysticism and become part of our understanding,
the revolution of the sun(not a god, a star) the earth's place in the galaxy(extremely common
galaxy with nothing special noted)
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Joesus
post May 13, 2011, 01:34 PM
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There is no absolute fact regarding the idea that DNA is responsible for keeping someone in a box, where they cannot respond to a situation other than according to scientific delusion.
You can test this yourself.

Put yourself in a situation. Any situation and observe your reaction. Do you always think and experience the same exact thoughts feelings and intellectual impulses every time when repeating the situation. If not then your DNA is not controlling your reactive responses nor does it prevent you from being aware at different levels of experience.

It is also probable that you can learn to spell, also challenging the idea that your DNA is keeping you from mastering that ability.
Stretch that into other realms of physical and psychological perspectives of observation and learning, and you may find that we are a product of our own ability to challenge the boundaries we believe are real, especially when you become hypnotized by an idea because someone told you they were the authority.

I realize it is difficult to imagine that everything you have been told is not exactly absolute just because someone who has gained a title of authority says it is so, but it is pretty much a fact that as science evolves, what was once truth is often replaced with something greater.

Hence the earth being flat reference being relative to a lack of knowledge and imagination, rather than some huge gap in the gene pool over a few centuries in human evolution.

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 13, 2011, 05:13 PM) *

What people do, think, feel, etc is determined by our genes

the classic beyond man understanding, is folly, not taken for a dime by scientists

Just thought you might take a look at the two statements that you have made here, which contradict each other.

If science limits itself thru inadequate genes, then it places itself at a level that is less than capable of understanding the Universe at any great length. Meaning there are things beyond its capabilities in understanding even itself (which would include whether genes determine whether you can learn to spell or not).

Makes a good excuse tho if you decided to get into an argument with an ignorant man. You can always defend yourself by saying, "I can't spell because it was predetermined by my genes." rolleyes.gif dry.gif
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orangesand
post May 13, 2011, 05:11 PM
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"Makes a good excuse tho if you decided", anything spelled wrong in your statement?
You simply do not know about , as it is becoming more evident, anything of value
You say some googbly gook and pretend it portends to something and I talk about actual issues.
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orangesand
post May 13, 2011, 05:20 PM
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You misunderstood what the topic was/is about.
I mentioned a study about happiness.
Those same three big happiness indicators
are true across people in Western Society on mean(even you ).
No need to be incendiary mate, as you said in your first replay
"so nothing makes you happy", you fundamentally misunderstood
what I wrote.

Say what makes you happy, (wonder if its winding your self up and chipping)?
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orangesand
post May 13, 2011, 05:21 PM
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You probably do not know what that means..............
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Flex
post May 13, 2011, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 12, 2011, 09:31 AM) *

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 12, 2011, 03:09 PM) *

"but the object of desire or affection cannot manipulate or control our thoughts and attachments at any kind of permanent level." what do you mean by this?

People have a lot less "free will" than they believe, our genetics determine our fayte.

The desire for something can change behaviors, make people do things that they would not
of done previously, which effects your brain

Historical precepts do not determine an amount of free will nor does our DNA. Our states of conscious awareness reflects itself in the DNA we observe as active and inactive. It is not the other way around.

If you believe you can be manipulated by the attachment to an object of desire without the ability to observe yourself and your attachments, and that you are an absolute victim, then you may surrender your sensibility to the idea as your only reality. But that does not necessarily make it a standard and an absolute, anymore than the determination that was made that the earth was flat and the sun circled the earth. Fate is not determined by some outside force within reality. It is an unfolding of your own making.


Ok dude real talk. Go get 140X salvia extract and take a fat bong rip and hold it till you dissociate from this world. You don't control shit... Your genes are not a product of you, you are a product of your genes. No matter how much free will you perceive yourself to have, if you take a sip of osmium tetroxide, you die. Everyone must abide by the laws of the Universe, which are not a product of your mind.
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Joesus
post May 13, 2011, 09:18 PM
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At least not the mind you imagine.
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Joesus
post May 13, 2011, 09:21 PM
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QUOTE(orangesand @ May 14, 2011, 01:20 AM) *

You misunderstood what the topic was/is about.
I mentioned a study about happiness.
Those same three big happiness indicators
are true across people in Western Society on mean(even you ).
No need to be incendiary mate, as you said in your first replay
"so nothing makes you happy", you fundamentally misunderstood
what I wrote.

Say what makes you happy, (wonder if its winding your self up and chipping)?

Me incendiary? Would that be your genes talking? Must not be happy with what I had to say.

And no I didn't misunderstand what the topic was/is about, I just don't abide by your rules of thought.
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Phi
post May 14, 2011, 03:23 PM
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@flex
lol
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orangesand
post May 15, 2011, 03:37 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 14, 2011, 01:21 AM) *

QUOTE(orangesand @ May 14, 2011, 01:20 AM) *

You misunderstood what the topic was/is about.
I mentioned a study about happiness.
Those same three big happiness indicators
are true across people in Western Society on mean(even you ).
No need to be incendiary mate, as you said in your first replay
"so nothing makes you happy", you fundamentally misunderstood
what I wrote.

Say what makes you happy, (wonder if its winding your self up and chipping)?

Me incendiary? Would that be your genes talking? Must not be happy with what I had to say.

And no I didn't misunderstand what the topic was/is about, I just don't abide by your rules of thought.

You went to school right? Not just the hippy commune, where you can say anything and its all okay,
because everyone is high and a degenerate. Are you afraid to face the real world?
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Joesus
post May 15, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Ah the real world and the educational system. The one that teaches you to compete and judge not only yourself but others. The one that supports success and idealizes it against all other ideas as failure. The one that doesn't tell you the meaning of life but instead defines you and teaches you how to define others and the world around you according to authority.

Which has led to the inability for human kind to support itself with compassion.

We have an abundance of food and over half the world starves.
We have the means to house the homeless but school teaches us to reach for more success and it doesn't matter if we leave those who are not successful behind.

Our wisdom creates pity for the weak and instead of helping them find the will and strength of purpose that lives inside of them, we continue to take dignity and sense of worth by offering them welfare programs to exemplify the separation between the successful and the unsuccessful.

You want to study the psyche and how it works, then become observant rather than becoming another mindless programmed clone who blindly accepts what the media says is truth for you and everyone else even if it means ignoring the suffering of humanity for your own gains.

It would be easy enough for someone who has food and shelter to accept that their genetic code created their success and their misdemeanor, but then tell the millions of starving people that all that is wrong with their situation is due to their genetic code and that they are inferior by their inherent nature.

Hitler decided this was true when he built the extermination camps. The Church decided this was true when it created the crusade to separate those who believed in God from those who didn't thru execution and war.

The difference between you and I is probably experience and age. You might believe that it is genetic code that makes you believe what you do and that there is nothing other than that. But I think you know that experience is the best teacher. You want to believe what you are told even without the experience and that is just naive.

Go ahead and use the social system as your foundation for excuse and defense. Most do, for if they didn't have something to champion their beliefs their life would be meaningless. That is the nature of your psychology and your happiness.
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Flex
post May 15, 2011, 08:55 AM
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We have enough food to feed the world because we have schools to teach proper farming strategies--the world starves because of an inherent nature of biology. Suffering drives evolution. By nature we are designed to populate beyond our capacity to maintain survival of all. Without injustice there is no evolution.

Look at Mozart. Born with a great gift, but raised a pussy. Not until death approached did he start to make music that was worth a damn. Beethoven on the other hand constantly produced truly inspired brilliant work all throughout his life, precisely because he suffered.

If you believe so greatly in experience, then surely you must believe in science. The scientific method starts with observation.
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Joesus
post May 15, 2011, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ May 15, 2011, 04:55 PM) *

If you believe so greatly in experience, then surely you must believe in science. The scientific method starts with observation.

But the observer is necessarily flawed, so he can evolve?

Sure I believe science is useful but not all scientists have an open mind, therefore science has its limitations.
Also there are schools of science that are not accepted by the relative scientist that insists repeatability is not achieved by the human instrument, but instead an instrument humans must accept as the epitome of human abilities in design (which by the way are inherently flawed and constantly evolving according to the gene theorists).

I also believe it is the nature of man to seek more than limitation and it is not necessary to suffer in order to evolve.

So you can justify suffering if you wish but I don't believe it is a human quality. I believe it is imposed upon those who have willingly taken the authoritative ideal up the backside, and perpetuated by those who just don't want to be bothered by it. In other words it has become a system of belief, like religion.
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Flex
post May 15, 2011, 01:46 PM
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There is nothing flawed it is nature. The observer simply is. Evolution comes from scarcity, not from flaws.
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Flex
post May 15, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Those who find themselves above natural law are called megalomaniacs.
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Joesus
post May 15, 2011, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ May 15, 2011, 09:48 PM) *

Those who find themselves above natural law are called megalomaniacs.

Those who find themselves part of the makeup of natural law are on their way to becoming enlightened.

If the observer just is, then what is it that the observer evolves into.
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Flex
post May 15, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Who knows. Just like the Universe's evolution. As the Universe cools we will likely have new fundamental forces--no one knows what they will be yet, but they will emerge.
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orangesand
post May 15, 2011, 08:41 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 15, 2011, 11:30 AM) *

Ah the real world and the educational system. The one that teaches you to compete and judge not only yourself but others. The one that supports success and idealizes it against all other ideas as failure. The one that doesn't tell you the meaning of life but instead defines you and teaches you how to define others and the world around you according to authority.

Which has led to the inability for human kind to support itself with compassion.

We have an abundance of food and over half the world starves.
We have the means to house the homeless but school teaches us to reach for more success and it doesn't matter if we leave those who are not successful behind.

Our wisdom creates pity for the weak and instead of helping them find the will and strength of purpose that lives inside of them, we continue to take dignity and sense of worth by offering them welfare programs to exemplify the separation between the successful and the unsuccessful.

You want to study the psyche and how it works, then become observant rather than becoming another mindless programmed clone who blindly accepts what the media says is truth for you and everyone else even if it means ignoring the suffering of humanity for your own gains.

It would be easy enough for someone who has food and shelter to accept that their genetic code created their success and their misdemeanor, but then tell the millions of starving people that all that is wrong with their situation is due to their genetic code and that they are inferior by their inherent nature.

Hitler decided this was true when he built the extermination camps. The Church decided this was true when it created the crusade to separate those who believed in God from those who didn't thru execution and war.

The difference between you and I is probably experience and age. You might believe that it is genetic code that makes you believe what you do and that there is nothing other than that. But I think you know that experience is the best teacher. You want to believe what you are told even without the experience and that is just naive.

Go ahead and use the social system as your foundation for excuse and defense. Most do, for if they didn't have something to champion their beliefs their life would be meaningless. That is the nature of your psychology and your happiness.


Who is older, who has more experience?(You assume) It is common for the younger of our people to believe the anti-statement,(worse for the elder ones to) As a child a mountain is seen, an adult sees a collection of particles, an old man sees a mountain..........(the learned man observes both states of the mountain and through study, realizes that the mountain is a random collection of particles, that look X way to people.)
Perhaps the long years have clouded my judgment.
Been to China, India? There are some hard facts one observes upon visiting.
You mention Hitler, as is so often used(the extreme, an exception), first of what you said pertains to Heinrich
Himmler(good to actually study a topic, so one knows at least something about it),
Did you go to school? If so do you see your degree as invalid and nullified?
Things are more complicated in the adult world ,
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