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> Meaning of ‘formless’ God, Nobody knows God, which means God is unimaginable
dattaswami
post Apr 30, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Meaning of ‘formless’ God
God is un-detectable
Nobody knows God, which means God is unimaginable


In the case of God, the word ‘formless’ indicates that He is unimaginable. Actually, the imaginable items of creation are form-full and formless. Sky is formless and Earth is formfull. In the first step, you have to climb from formfull to formless and in the second step, you have to climb from formless to unimaginable. For the people who think that God is formfull, if you say that God is unimaginable, it will be a double jump, which will be very difficult. Both formless and unimaginable are unseen. When people think God is seen like light, etc., you can say that God is the unseen, formless cosmic energy that pervades all over the cosmos. By this, you have established God at least as unseen. In the second step, you can say that God is not even the cosmic energy since it is imaginable and say that God is unimaginable. In fact, cosmic energy also has form, which is in the form of waves or quanta and can be seen through powerful microscope. Since the microscope was not discovered in that time, God was said to be cosmic energy, which was unseen and formless.

Cosmic energy also has form of waves or quanta. It is a simile that was used when the microscope was absent. Hence, God was said to be all pervading formless entity. But today, science has developed so much that you cannot define God as unseen and formless pervading all over the cosmos. All these similes have to be dropped because every simile is detected by science and God is left over, who is beyond detection. Therefore, the time has come to say that God is un-detectable. Krishna clearly stated that nobody knows God, which means God is unimaginable (Maamtuveda na kashchana…). The words used by the human incarnations have their significance in the context of those times. Therefore, if Mohammed said that God was formless and all pervading, you should understand that His intention was only to divert from the concept that God is some visible form and limited. Baba also tried His level best to unify all the religions of the world and was never confined to any specific religion. Baba treated all the religions of the world with equality and He has the devotees in all the religions.
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Rick
post Apr 30, 2011, 09:21 PM
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People create gods in their own images.
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dattaswami
post May 01, 2011, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Apr 30, 2011, 10:21 PM) *

People create gods in their own images.

The first mistake is that you apply the analytical conclusions of the subject of imaginable items to the unimaginable God.

The second mistake is that based on the above analysis, you conclude that the existence of awareness in the world is the entry of cause or its characteristic into the product. By this, you conclude that awareness is the cause of the world or at least the characteristic of such cause.

There are several materials and properties existing in the world and awareness is just one among them. Then, why don’t you take other existing properties also as God and apply the same status of logic? You need not fear that if God is not awareness, it means God has to be concluded as inert item. In the items of the world, such conclusion is possible because the world consists of only awareness and inert items. You must recognize the existence of unimaginable item, which is beyond these two types of items of the world.

Moreover, by virtue of un-imaginable power, God can know everything and He need not be awareness to know like the worldly item. Therefore, you need not fear that if God is not awareness, He cannot know anything or cannot wish to create the world. If this single point is clearly understood, the Advaita philosophers will come out of their misunderstanding of Shankara. Shankara called awareness as God since God is always associated with a living human being while He comes down.

The Veda and Shankara used the words, ‘Jnana’ and ‘Prajnana’, which do not mean mere awareness. Awareness indicates a living being. The word ‘Jnana’ indicates a human being. ‘Prajnana’ indicates a specific human being associated with special knowledge. Of course, ‘Prajnana’ includes ‘Jnana’ and ‘Jnana’ includes awareness. ‘Jnana’ means the knowledge in the imaginable level and ‘Prajnana’ means the knowledge in the unimaginable level. The hundred rupees (dollar) include 10 rupees (dollar) and 10 rupees(dollar) include 1 rupee(dollar). Therefore, you should not confine the 100 rupees(dollar) and 10 rupees(dollar) to one rupee(dollar) only. Moreover, you can call God through the associated item like calling the bearer of apples by the word ‘apples’. Hence, you can call God by awareness or knowledge or special knowledge. But, such call is confined to only the context of human incarnation in which God is associated with the special knowledge. You can call the bearer of apples by the word ‘apples’ only when he is carrying on the apples. When he is not associated with apples, you will not use such usage. Another important point is that Shankara used this context since His task was to convert atheists into theists. Atheists never believe God and hence, Shankara attracted them by calling them as God so that the existence of God, which means their own existence, cannot be denied.
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Kairos
post May 02, 2011, 03:14 AM
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"Nobody knows God, which means God is unimaginable"

Is it possible to know God ?

If God is unimaginable, can we know God by means of imagination ?

Chapters 7 and 8 of Bvagavad-Gita speak of Knowledge of the Absolute and Attaining the Supreme.

"The universe is the cosmic form of the Supreme Lord, and I am that Lord represented as the Supersoul, dwelling in the heart of every embodied being."

"I am in everybody´s heart as the Supersoul."

Chapter 9 of Bhagavad-Gita speaks of The Most Purest Knowledge because it gives direct perception of "What is to be Known".

Shankara called Awareness God because Awareness/Direct Perception is The Most Purest Knowledge.

That´s why the Buddhists call Awareness MANI, or the most precious Jewel.

MANI = Jewel/Clarity/Awareness/Enlightenment
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dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 02, 2011, 04:14 AM) *

"Nobody knows God, which means God is unimaginable"

Is it possible to know God ?

If God is unimaginable, can we know God by means of imagination ?

Chapters 7 and 8 of Bvagavad-Gita speak of Knowledge of the Absolute and Attaining the Supreme.

"The universe is the cosmic form of the Supreme Lord, and I am that Lord represented as the Supersoul, dwelling in the heart of every embodied being."

"I am in everybody´s heart as the Supersoul."

Chapter 9 of Bhagavad-Gita speaks of The Most Purest Knowledge because it gives direct perception of "What is to be Known".

Shankara called Awareness God because Awareness/Direct Perception is The Most Purest Knowledge.

That´s why the Buddhists call Awareness MANI, or the most precious Jewel.

MANI = Jewel/Clarity/Awareness/Enlightenment

Shankara also differentiated the awareness of all things (Sarvajna) from the awareness of few things (Alpajna) as ‘Ishwara’ and ‘Jeeva’ respectively. Here, the word ‘Jeeva’ stands for the ordinary soul and the word ‘Ishwara’ stands for the unimaginable God associated with created general awareness, which is specially qualified by the unimaginable quality of knowing everything. Here, ‘Ishwara’ should not be taken as the pure unimaginable God (Nirguna Brahman). Therefore, awareness should be understood as a quality or property or the created item existing in the creation. After all, awareness is an item that is understood by us and cannot be the unimaginable God. The general awareness existing as common essence in both ‘Ishwara’ and ‘Jeeva’ is only created item and not the creator. Shankara called this general awareness as ‘Brahman’ not in the sense of unimaginable God. The word ‘Brahman’ can be used for any greatest item in a category.

Awareness is the greatest item due to its preciousness (Para Prakruti) among all the categories of the creation and hence, can be emphatically called as ‘Brahman’. But, it is only the imaginable item and the unimaginable God is always greater than it. Therefore, the unimaginable God or the creator is the absolute greatest item and should be called as ‘Brahman’ in the absolute sense in the first place. The awareness comes in the second place, which is not the creator but, the greatest item of the creation. Now, if you call both these items i.e., unimaginable God and awareness by the same word ‘Brahman’, definitely the confusion starts and as a result, you will certainly mistake the general awareness as the unimaginable God.

Therefore, Shankara created a new word ‘Parabrahman’, which means that, which is other than Brahman. The word ‘Para’ also means ‘other than’. He clearly mentioned the meaning of ‘Parabrahman’ as that, which is beyond words (Maunavyaakhyaa Prakatita Parabrahma…). Only the unimaginable item can never be expressed by words. In spite of His clarification, the advaita philosophers continued in the illusion that awareness is God because the attraction to become God is always very strong ambition. Awareness is the process of knowing, which is just a specific work form of inert energy only and we must thank the modern science for giving such clarification so that now we know the mechanism of the process of knowing.
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dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 02, 2011, 04:14 AM) *



MANI = Jewel/Clarity/Awareness/Enlightenment

The Veda says clearly that the soul is generated from food. This means that the food is oxidized to produce inert energy and the inert energy is converted into awareness. The Vedic statement is an indirect step of generation. If you have dollars, you can convert them into rupees and with rupees, you can purchase any item in India. You can say that you can purchase any item with dollar and such statement is the indirect statement. All this means that the soul is an imaginable item of creation but not the unimaginable creator.

In the Bhagavatam it is said that certain souls were hidden by Brahma and God in the form of Krishna created the same souls again. This itself proves that the soul is created [item] and not the creator. If the soul were to be the creator, it cannot be created again by duplication. However, the soul is permanent or eternal with respect to human body as said in the Gita (Nahanyate hanyamaane…). Such eternality is only relative but not absolute. The soul enters energetic body after death, while the human body perishes and such eternality of the soul is not real, permanent and absolute.
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Joesus
post May 02, 2011, 06:12 AM
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QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 02, 2011, 12:47 PM) *


The Veda says clearly that the soul is generated from food. dry.gif


No. It doesn't.
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dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 07:26 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 02, 2011, 07:12 AM) *

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 02, 2011, 12:47 PM) *


The Veda says clearly that the soul is generated from food. dry.gif


No. It doesn't.

God gave the ability of creating robot, a duplicate human being, to the humanity to show that a human being is a created item only. The human being includes the soul, which is a special work form of inert energy. The inert energy was created by God as the first item in the beginning of the creation. This inert energy is manifested in several forms like light, heat, electricity, magnetism and various work forms. The work forms become different since the same inert energy works in different systems. A system needs material, which is matter. For example, respiration is a specific work from of inert energy and needs the specific system called lungs. A lung is made of matter. Therefore, the same inert energy is manifested in the form of matter. The work in general, is called as kinetic energy. The energy associated with a static body is called as potential energy. The potential energy can be converted into kinetic energy when the system works. Matter is in three states called as gas (vayu), liquid (jalam) and solid (bhumi). The inert energy in invisible state is called as space (aakaasha) and in visible state is called as fire (agni).

Soul is the general awareness called as awareness of awareness, which is the specific work form of inert energy functioning in the specific nervous system. The various sub-modes of the same general work (awareness) are called as feelings or qualities. The general awareness is stated as ‘Atman’ whereas, the same general awareness existing in different sub-modes is called as ‘Jeeva’. The main sub-modes are four types called as ‘Antahkaranams’ viz. the mind, the intelligence, the memory and basic ego identified as ‘I’ (Manas, Buddhi, Chittam and Ahankara). It is like various sub-modes of the same working computer. The general functioning of a computer can be taken as soul and the main facilities of the work can be taken as ‘Antahkaranams’. This general functioning associated with various aspects of work can be taken as ‘Jeeva’. The electrical energy is the inert energy. If the various systems involved in the generation of the electricity are also associated with the computer, it represents a human being.
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Joesus
post May 02, 2011, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 02, 2011, 12:47 PM) *


The Veda says clearly that the soul is generated from food. dry.gif


No. It doesn't.
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Kairos
post May 02, 2011, 08:11 AM
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In Dzogchen Teachings(rDzogs Chen = Great Perfection/Completion), Rigpa(= Vidya, Sanskrit))is the awakened state of mind, primordial nondual awareness, our ultimate nature, the state of omniscience, or nonconceptual innermost stainless mind.
The whole teaching of Buddha is directed towards realizing Rigpa.

The essential, absolute nature of mind is Vajra/Dorje/Mani, or Diamond Clear and Radiant, free from all stains/thoughts/conceptions, empty, clear and open like the sky ~








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