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> April 2011 Updated Mental Stack, For those who may benefit from my own trials and errors
Phi
post Apr 04, 2011, 02:08 AM
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All of these things seem to work hand-in-hand with each other, but I will try and list them with the ones I think most important on the top:

Keep in mind I try to use the best quality sources I can find except for the amino acid complex(it seems to still work fine and is great to aid in physical activities(and its cheap!!))

Daytime:
SJW
Amino Acid Complex
Multivitamin(although I barely use them and would prefer to just be able to eat the right types of foods)

Night:
L-Tryptophan
Fish Oil


I will soon be adding L-Glutamine for nighttime. Anyone know a relatively effective dose?

Of course, feel free to ask questions...and suggestions
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Flex
post Apr 04, 2011, 04:43 PM
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SJW=St. John's Wort?

5g ought to do the trick. That is what I usually use. I actually just mix equal parts glatamine and creatine in a container and take 10g.

Keep a 3 day food record of EVERYTHING you eat. That includes condiments and beverages etc. Add up to totals of all nutrients and divide by 3 to get a good approx. of your daily intake. Ideally you should do this over 2 week days and one weekend day.

Best database by far:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/mynd/mytrack...mynd/mytracking

You should absolutely be fine with diet alone. Just make sure to figure out your lean body mass, and make sure you are getting adequate protein and calories for your lean body mass. Multivitamins are really just an insurance policy if you have a proper diet (which most people don't).

Keep in mind that RDAs are not optimal intakes--they are established to prevent malnutrition only. If you don't at least meet these, definitely do so: http://iom.edu/Activities/Nutrition/Summar...%20Elements.pdf

Obviously 90mg of vitamin C is pretty damn low... Paleolithic man consumed in excess of 500mg/day. If you post all of your intakes, activity level, and goals, I will give it a looking over.
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Jakare
post Apr 05, 2011, 04:53 PM
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How does the l-tryptophan work? Im using melatoning at 0.5 mg night but i would consider l-triptophan if it has a noticeable effect.
How much do you take Phi?
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Phi
post Apr 05, 2011, 06:00 PM
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I use the 500 mg source naturals. If you enjoy the melatonin, the tryptophan will be much more effective(as it breaks down into 5-htp, serotonin, and melatonin((probably more things but those seem to be the important parts to me))

I only take one 500mg capsule an hr before I want to sleep. If I want to force sleep, I may take 2-3.

Since I've just started saint johns wort, I'll probably be using less in the near future.

I started with 1500 the first day, 1000 the 2nd, 500 the 3rd, and I'll miss a few days here and there(as long as I don't miss more than 3 I really don't notice a difference unless I'm having issues sleeping)

I wake up more rested, with less hours of sleep. My dreams have been consistently vivid since I started about a half year ago.

I take it because it has noticeable effects on my daily mood, so I'll definitely continue using it(I would assume it seems natural to take it very infrequently over time((but it really helps me sleep so I take it consistently)).
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Flex
post Apr 05, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Tryptophan is wonderful. It was extremely widely used and prescribed by psychiatrists a while back, but there was one batch (I believe from China) that was tainted and gave it a really bad rap. Definitely one of the best sleep aids out there. It personally makes me feel a little bit weird though--kind of out of body. I don't recommend it if you are bipolar.
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Phi
post Apr 05, 2011, 07:06 PM
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I thought the bad batch was for 5-htp
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Jakare
post Apr 05, 2011, 09:05 PM
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Yes it was 5-htp but it was from japan. I heard the effects were pretty bad but as far as i know that happened only once so...is like not swiming on the sea because you saw "Jaws".
Sometimes, when im in the mood for that i take a mini dose of it. But because i get very little to none sunlight i prefer to take it in the morning on an empty stomach to help create some serotonin. Later on the night it will get converted to melatonin i think. If im right if you take it with food any amount of vit. b6 will metabolize 5-htp to serotonin but in the blood-stream instead of in the brain, and serotonin doesnt cross the BBB (bloodbrainbarrier) so...
This is the metabolic way (dont hesitate on telling me im wrong):
l-triptophane--5-htp--serotonin--and finally melatonin isnīt it? Of course it can go on the opposite direction.
Anyway although i love melatonin i dont feel absolutely confortable taking it all the time. Thats why i was asking about l-triptophan, would it be much of a difference with 5-htp?
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Phi
post Apr 05, 2011, 09:40 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 05, 2011, 10:05 PM) *

Yes it was 5-htp but it was from japan. I heard the effects were prety bad but as far as i know that happened only once so...is like not swiming on the sea because you saw "Jaws".
Sometimes, when im in the mood for that i take a mini dose of it. But because i get very little to none sunlight i prefer to take it in the morning on an empty stomach to help create some serotonin. Later on the night it will get converted to melatonin i think. If im right if you take it with food any amount of vit. b6 will metabolize 5-htp to serotonin but in the blood-stream instead of in the brain, and serotonin doesnt cross the BBB (bloodbrainbarrier) so...
This is the metabolic way (dont hesitate on telling me im wrong):
l-triptophane--5-htp--serotonin--and finally melatonin isnīt it? Of course it can go on the opposite direction.
Anyway although i love melatonin i dont feel absolutely confortable taking it all the time. Thats way i was asking about l-triptophan, would it be much of a difference with 5-htp?


I would describe l-tryptophan as a more complete way to absorb 5htp and melatonin.
As far as I know, 5-htp is taken for its' immediate effect; while tryptophan seems to utilize a more natural process. I could be wrong, but I've taken both and tryptophan is personally more effective(which would leave melatonin at the bottom of the three imo)
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Flex
post Apr 06, 2011, 05:36 AM
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Agreed. My personal experience tells me tryptophan is the most effective. Melatonin will only work for individuals with already low levels anyways if I remember right, so unless you are older, it shouldn't really have any effect.
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Jakare
post Apr 06, 2011, 08:29 AM
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Well melatonin helps me to fall sleep quicker than normal, usually take me from 30 to 60 minutes without it and the sleep seems to be deeper when i take it.
I work on the night shift, thats why i dont get enough sunlight at all. Which means i dont create enough serotonin and consecuently melatonin. (and yes im supplementing D3)
But you have made your point and i like it. Next time i will order some l-triptophan.
Anyway if there is a sleep issue i think melatonin is better than 5-htp as it has posible contraindications and melatonin doesnīt.
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Flex
post Apr 06, 2011, 01:39 PM
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As a side note, valerian is an awesome sleep aid, but sometimes it can be too awesome and carry over into the next day smile.gif
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Phi
post Apr 06, 2011, 05:25 PM
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how do u get your valerian? I would assume that it would work well, but it hasn't for me in the past(possibly my source wasn't a good one)
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Jakare
post Apr 06, 2011, 06:25 PM
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I already tried that. Not too bad i must say. I use to get it in tea bags from the supermarket but the effect fade kickly so i had to take it right before going to sleep. Maybe on pills would be better and they are easy to find at my local chemist.
But thats not exiting, l-triptophan is ;-) If i go to a friend and tell him/her -im taking valerian- he/she will put a hand on my shoulder and say -im so sorry you have got anxiety problems, my grandma take it aswell-. But if i say -Hey im taking l-triptophan- Their eyes will blink with ignorance and shine of admiration, and they will say -thats my friend-.
:-) is sad but is true.
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Flex
post Apr 06, 2011, 08:19 PM
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Haha yes valerian is rather common place. I personally like the tinctures.
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Phi
post Apr 06, 2011, 09:41 PM
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do you notice any difference between extracts or will any do?
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Flex
post Apr 07, 2011, 09:39 AM
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Most legit products put the % valerenic acid on the product.
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Flex
post Apr 07, 2011, 01:15 PM
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Oh this is what I was referring to BTW smile.gif See 1989 (it was caused by contamination): http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/Histo...s/ucm081229.htm
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Jakare
post Apr 07, 2011, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Apr 07, 2011, 11:15 PM) *

Oh this is what I was referring to BTW smile.gif See 1989 (it was caused by contamination): http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/Histo...s/ucm081229.htm


And thats the one i was refering to:

http://www.erowid.org/smarts/tryptophan/tr...an_info10.shtml


And the product i use is suppose to be clean of it:
http://www.healthyorigins.com/Merchant2/gr...bels/35072l.htm
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Flex
post Apr 07, 2011, 03:38 PM
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All products nowadays should be fine. That was a good 20 years ago--manufacturing practices and regulations have improved substantially.

I personally believe the contamination was so heavily publicized because temazepam became patented in Aug. 1987, and tryptophan was the prescription of choice for most psychiatrists. It seems like pretty fishy timing to me that a new sleep med became patented so close to the only recorded outbreak...
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Flex
post Apr 09, 2011, 09:36 AM
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Thought you all might enjoy: http://ki.se/ki/jsp/polopoly.jsp?l=en&d=13...420&newsdep=130
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Phi
post Apr 11, 2011, 03:26 AM
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I wonder if they give the salamanders parkinsons...
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Phi
post May 01, 2011, 02:33 PM
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Alright, the valerian tincture is effective, but short acting(couple hours at most).

On a different note, I'm thinking of trying aniracetam again(as I might have not given it a fair shot when I first tried it). I'm aiming for some notable cognitive improvement and possible mood improvement through the anxliotic mechanisms. I don't consider myself to suffer anxiety these days, but a slight dulling seems useful on most occasions.

Any aniracetam experiences/suggestions?
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Guest
post May 01, 2011, 05:15 PM
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My response to aniracetam shows two well differenciated stages. The first is the well known anxiolitic and improved focus effect and the second just make me dull and give me brainfog.
Fortunately enough im right now on the first stage :-) Good because i have some important exams near.
Lately i use to spike it with a low dose of pramiracetam.
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Jakare
post May 01, 2011, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE(Guest @ May 02, 2011, 03:15 AM) *

My response to aniracetam shows two well differenciated stages. The first is the well known anxiolitic and improved focus effect and the second just make me dull and give me brainfog.
Fortunately enough im right now on the first stage :-) Good because i have some important exams near.
Lately i use to spike it with a low dose of pramiracetam.


That was me. Strange, usually my computer log me in directly...
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Phi
post May 01, 2011, 10:10 PM
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The pramiracetam just clears the fog for you?
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Jakare
post May 02, 2011, 07:09 AM
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A small dose makes me a little bit more speedy so it does help. But you know those things dont work the same for everyone...
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Phi
post May 03, 2011, 03:48 AM
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of course, but thanks for giving your subjective input(I think it can still be somewhat helpful).

Anyway, I don't plan on ordering pramiracetam; I was just curious
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Phi
post May 03, 2011, 03:55 AM
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I can't believe I hadn't put this on yet: I replaced my amino complex weeks ago with a protein powder which is high in glutamine; I may be switching to another protein powder that is high in glutamine and has creatine...I'll keep posted.

The reason for such is my increase in physical activity, bioavailability over capsules, and lack of protein in my diet(I'm poor). Anyway, it seems to be an important part of my day(as I can notice a baseline difference if I don't take it).

Happy health
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Phi
post May 08, 2011, 06:01 PM
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Added jack3d today; seems like itll be a great addition to my morning bike rides. I awoke today from my terrible bar hoping/gambling night and it erased the lingering (insert bad feeling here).

I'll keep posted if that changes
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