 Cognitive enhancers/de-foggers for someone with MS?, brain fog, multiple sclerosis, nootropics |
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| mxyzptlk |
 Jun 10, 2010, 09:35 PM
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#1
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Newbie  Group: Basic Member Posts: 2 Joined: Jun 10, 2010 Member No.: 32820  |
Hi all,
This is my first post here, after surfing through I don't know how many other posts. I'm a PhD student who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis about a year and a half ago, but we know that my first attack happened almost eleven years prior. I'm already on a number of medications to control symptoms, but the brain fog has become debilitating to my academic career. So I'll identify what I'm currently prescribed, give some background on what I've tried before I was diagnosed (I knew there were problems) and what I'm currently dealing with, and then fish for suggestions. Currently taking
I'm a 5'8 135lb male in my mid-thirties, at one time very physically active, exercising regularly and having wrestled in college and later trained in judo. I had my first MS attack while working on my master's degree overseas. Before I could finish getting the required tests (doctors weren't sure what was going on), I returned home to satisfy a worried family. As many people already know, the US medical system isn't so hot on preventative medicine, and I went mis-diagnosed with epilepsy for about a decade until I finally lost vision in my right eye. A spinal tap and MRI later confirmed multiple lesions on my left frontal lobe and brain stem. Brain-fog-related difficulties include memory and concentration/focus problems, including over-focusing on the wrong things without recognizing it. These are all new to me, and have significantly impeded my ability to either work on my PhD or teach. I've forgotten important meetings, dates, left keys in my door and in my bike (which I'd never do -- I'm a city boy), and basically have these lapses that are worrying, to say the least. My doctors have basically chalked this up to adult-onset ADHD-like symptoms due to MS. To sort of illustrate the extent of the change, I went from reading well over 100 books a year, writing conference papers, editing and writing books and teaching, down to barely able to get through my email. After more tests, I'm to meet with a CBT (cogntive behavioral therapist) to basically learn how to learn again and get some of these issues under control. A few years before I was diagnosed, I was incorrectly placed on a few different epilepsy medications that turned me into a zombie. That's when I started researching racetams, looking for something to clear the haze. I've tried piracetam and aniracetam, and honestly can't say I felt anything in particular. However, one of my MS side-effects is vicious insomnia, which may have played a role in how effective any racetam would have been. (I average about 3-5 hours sleep a night; one thing I find ironic is that when they thought I was epileptic I was to take clonazpam in the morning, and now I'm to take it to help me sleep. Exercise once helped with sleep, but not anymore, and my balance/recovery time just isn't what it used to be.) Before the diagnosis, one thing that helped for bursts of clear, productive concentration was an ugly low-rent OTC method. When I was in high school, some local gas stations sold a version of pseudephedrine behind the counter to truckers to help them stay awake. But it was sold to anyone who asked, and I'd used it on occasion for late nights at work or studying. Such supplements were eventually outlawed, but most everyone knew you could get a similar effect from sudafed, which is now a hassle to get because it's used to make meth. However, I found that 120-180 mg of sudafed would help clear the cobwebs for a few hours, but that's not something I want to use regularly. I was prescribed 200 mg Provigil and later 20 mg amphetamine salts after I started crashing at odd times in odd places, waking up in the library after-hours, etc. I've experimented with 100 mg Provigil in the morning and 100 in the afternoon, with the adderall in between, or taking the adderall with the morning provigil, and with taking it all at once a while after I wake up. I can say that the 100 mg Provigil and the adderall in the a.m. and 100 mg later is probably the most effective, but it only gets me to about 60% of where I was once at, which honestly leaves me still struggling, especially at the end of the semester. For a while I was prescribed extended release adderall, and found it not very effective. I had tried idebenone before I was diagnosed, and found that it it helped some with clearer, more fluid thinking, and recently added that back into my daily doses. Questions After leaving my keys in the door again today and freaking out my wife, I'm looking for suggestions to supplement or build on the modafinil/adderall/idebenone stack. I'm assuming piracetam is the first place to start, and to be honest when I took it in the past, I combined it with choline citrate, not cdp-choline or alpha gpc choline, so I'm not sure if I was simply missing a major component and should go back to that. I've also read about L-Tyrosine and D,L-Phenylalanine to help with energy; I'm interested, but of course I first want to hear some voices of experience. Some vasodilators I'm curious about are vinpocetine, vincamine, galantamine, guanfacine and pyritinol -- all things I've looked into, but I'm hoping to get some more informed advice. I'm particularly interested in vasodilators for a couple reasons: Some recent research has discovered that people with MS tend to have very narrow or twisted jugular and azygos veins, constricing oxygen to the brain and leading to iron build-up in myelin, which in turn the immune system then attacks, leaving frayed neurons and brain lesions. This is still being studied in the US, and the only treatments currently available are surgical stent procedures being offered in Poland and Bulgaria -- not an option. However, when I have a crash attack, I've noted that my lips and hands go numb and my vision dims, which is very similar to how a blood choke feels in judo or jujitsu (grappling has come in handy). This suggests to me constricted blood flow to the brain, which may be consistent with narrow jugular/axygos veins. So I'm interested in finding a way to increase blood flow to the brain that doesn't require going to Poland to get a balloon shot into my jugular. I'm also not averse to any particular stretching/breathing exercises that would increase blood flow to the brain. After my first attack I studied meditation with a buddhist monk for six months to help get my concentration back in order so I could finish my master's degree. That helped tremendously and I still try to practice those techniques, but it's become increasingly difficult. Besides, when I do try to meditate, my two beagles tend to come up and lick my face or sit on my lap, blowing the whole concentration thing. (I know I could go to a different room, but then they think I'm playing a game and bark.) Oh -- don't know if this will make much of a difference or not, but I tend to have low blood pressure. Not dangerously low, healthily low, but low nonetheless. I know it's a lot for my first post here, but I've spent a long time lurking and have been impressed with the level of discussion, research and advice, and finally decided to pull the trigger and see what comes up. |
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| jerdine77 |
Jun 11, 2010, 02:05 PM
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#2
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Newbie Group: Basic Member Posts: 2 Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Member No.: 32825 |
QUOTE(mxyzptlk @ Jun 10, 2010, 10:35 PM)  Hi all, This is my first post here, after surfing through I don't know how many other posts. I'm a PhD student who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis about a year and a half ago, but we know that my first attack happened almost eleven years prior. I'm already on a number of medications to control symptoms, but the brain fog has become debilitating to my academic career. So I'll identify what I'm currently prescribed, give some background on what I've tried before I was diagnosed (I knew there were problems) and what I'm currently dealing with, and then fish for suggestions. Currently taking
I'm a 5'8 135lb male in my mid-thirties, at one time very physically active, exercising regularly and having wrestled in college and later trained in judo. I had my first MS attack while working on my master's degree overseas. Before I could finish getting the required tests (doctors weren't sure what was going on), I returned home to satisfy a worried family. As many people already know, the US medical system isn't so hot on preventative medicine, and I went mis-diagnosed with epilepsy for about a decade until I finally lost vision in my right eye. A spinal tap and MRI later confirmed multiple lesions on my left frontal lobe and brain stem. Brain-fog-related difficulties include memory and concentration/focus problems, including over-focusing on the wrong things without recognizing it. These are all new to me, and have significantly impeded my ability to either work on my PhD or teach. I've forgotten important meetings, dates, left keys in my door and in my bike (which I'd never do -- I'm a city boy), and basically have these lapses that are worrying, to say the least. My doctors have basically chalked this up to adult-onset ADHD-like symptoms due to MS. To sort of illustrate the extent of the change, I went from reading well over 100 books a year, writing conference papers, editing and writing books and teaching, down to barely able to get through my email. After more tests, I'm to meet with a CBT (cogntive behavioral therapist) to basically learn how to learn again and get some of these issues under control. A few years before I was diagnosed, I was incorrectly placed on a few different epilepsy medications that turned me into a zombie. That's when I started researching racetams, looking for something to clear the haze. I've tried piracetam and aniracetam, and honestly can't say I felt anything in particular. However, one of my MS side-effects is vicious insomnia, which may have played a role in how effective any racetam would have been. (I average about 3-5 hours sleep a night; one thing I find ironic is that when they thought I was epileptic I was to take clonazpam in the morning, and now I'm to take it to help me sleep. Exercise once helped with sleep, but not anymore, and my balance/recovery time just isn't what it used to be.) Before the diagnosis, one thing that helped for bursts of clear, productive concentration was an ugly low-rent OTC method. When I was in high school, some local gas stations sold a version of pseudephedrine behind the counter to truckers to help them stay awake. But it was sold to anyone who asked, and I'd used it on occasion for late nights at work or studying. Such supplements were eventually outlawed, but most everyone knew you could get a similar effect from sudafed, which is now a hassle to get because it's used to make meth. However, I found that 120-180 mg of sudafed would help clear the cobwebs for a few hours, but that's not something I want to use regularly. I was prescribed 200 mg Provigil and later 20 mg amphetamine salts after I started crashing at odd times in odd places, waking up in the library after-hours, etc. I've experimented with 100 mg Provigil in the morning and 100 in the afternoon, with the adderall in between, or taking the adderall with the morning provigil, and with taking it all at once a while after I wake up. I can say that the 100 mg Provigil and the adderall in the a.m. and 100 mg later is probably the most effective, but it only gets me to about 60% of where I was once at, which honestly leaves me still struggling, especially at the end of the semester. For a while I was prescribed extended release adderall, and found it not very effective. I had tried idebenone before I was diagnosed, and found that it it helped some with clearer, more fluid thinking, and recently added that back into my daily doses. Questions After leaving my keys in the door again today and freaking out my wife, I'm looking for suggestions to supplement or build on the modafinil/adderall/idebenone stack. I'm assuming piracetam is the first place to start, and to be honest when I took it in the past, I combined it with choline citrate, not cdp-choline or alpha gpc choline, so I'm not sure if I was simply missing a major component and should go back to that. I've also read about L-Tyrosine and D,L-Phenylalanine to help with energy; I'm interested, but of course I first want to hear some voices of experience. Some vasodilators I'm curious about are vinpocetine, vincamine, galantamine, guanfacine and pyritinol -- all things I've looked into, but I'm hoping to get some more informed advice. I'm particularly interested in vasodilators for a couple reasons: Some recent research has discovered that people with MS tend to have very narrow or twisted jugular and azygos veins, constricing oxygen to the brain and leading to iron build-up in myelin, which in turn the immune system then attacks, leaving frayed neurons and brain lesions. This is still being studied in the US, and the only treatments currently available are surgical stent procedures being offered in Poland and Bulgaria -- not an option. However, when I have a crash attack, I've noted that my lips and hands go numb and my vision dims, which is very similar to how a blood choke feels in judo or jujitsu (grappling has come in handy). This suggests to me constricted blood flow to the brain, which may be consistent with narrow jugular/axygos veins. So I'm interested in finding a way to increase blood flow to the brain that doesn't require going to Poland to get a balloon shot into my jugular. I'm also not averse to any particular stretching/breathing exercises that would increase blood flow to the brain. After my first attack I studied meditation with a buddhist monk for six months to help get my concentration back in order so I could finish my master's degree. That helped tremendously and I still try to practice those techniques, but it's become increasingly difficult. Besides, when I do try to meditate, my two beagles tend to come up and lick my face or sit on my lap, blowing the whole concentration thing. (I know I could go to a different room, but then they think I'm playing a game and bark.) Oh -- don't know if this will make much of a difference or not, but I tend to have low blood pressure. Not dangerously low, healthily low, but low nonetheless. I know it's a lot for my first post here, but I've spent a long time lurking and have been impressed with the level of discussion, research and advice, and finally decided to pull the trigger and see what comes up. Hello there, I commend you for seeking answers instead of just accepting what allopathic medicine dictates. I'm wondering if you would consider taking mega doses of buffered natural source vitamin C. Start with 1 gram and gradually move it up. I know of someone whom had MS in Edmonton, Alberta. He began taking an American health supplement by a company called Universa. He was taking their "Ageless Extra" and something called "xperia." I am not sure in what quantity, BUT after 3 months using these nutritional supplements, he rode a bicycle in the annual MS bike fundraiser and is able to move better. It's worth a shot. I also wonder what kind of water you drink. Maybe consider trying ionized alkaline water. I switched to that water a year ago and my migraines are minimized, I have less body pain, and less brain fog. I don't have MS, but I feel better drinking at least 10 glasses of that water a day. I bought a machine from ionways. I bought their ISIS ionizer. The newer VENUS model is said to be even better, but I don't know if it's available in USA. You can look. Good luck! |
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| GodConsciousness |
Jun 14, 2010, 07:08 AM
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#3
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 Demi-God Group: Basic Member Posts: 818 Joined: Sep 19, 2006 Member No.: 5683 |
You may also want to look into amino acids and brain proteins.
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| Hey Hey |
Jun 14, 2010, 10:13 PM
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#4
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 Supreme God Group: Basic Member Posts: 7763 Joined: Dec 31, 2003 Member No.: 845 |
QUOTE(jerdine77 @ Jun 11, 2010, 11:05 PM) QUOTE(mxyzptlk @ Jun 10, 2010, 10:35 PM) Hi all, This is my first post here, after surfing through I don't know how many other posts. I'm a PhD student who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis about a year and a half ago, but we know that my first attack happened almost eleven years prior. I'm already on a number of medications to control symptoms, but the brain fog has become debilitating to my academic career. So I'll identify what I'm currently prescribed, give some background on what I've tried before I was diagnosed (I knew there were problems) and what I'm currently dealing with, and then fish for suggestions. Currently taking
I'm a 5'8 135lb male in my mid-thirties, at one time very physically active, exercising regularly and having wrestled in college and later trained in judo. I had my first MS attack while working on my master's degree overseas. Before I could finish getting the required tests (doctors weren't sure what was going on), I returned home to satisfy a worried family. As many people already know, the US medical system isn't so hot on preventative medicine, and I went mis-diagnosed with epilepsy for about a decade until I finally lost vision in my right eye. A spinal tap and MRI later confirmed multiple lesions on my left frontal lobe and brain stem. Brain-fog-related difficulties include memory and concentration/focus problems, including over-focusing on the wrong things without recognizing it. These are all new to me, and have significantly impeded my ability to either work on my PhD or teach. I've forgotten important meetings, dates, left keys in my door and in my bike (which I'd never do -- I'm a city boy), and basically have these lapses that are worrying, to say the least. My doctors have basically chalked this up to adult-onset ADHD-like symptoms due to MS. To sort of illustrate the extent of the change, I went from reading well over 100 books a year, writing conference papers, editing and writing books and teaching, down to barely able to get through my email. After more tests, I'm to meet with a CBT (cogntive behavioral therapist) to basically learn how to learn again and get some of these issues under control. A few years before I was diagnosed, I was incorrectly placed on a few different epilepsy medications that turned me into a zombie. That's when I started researching racetams, looking for something to clear the haze. I've tried piracetam and aniracetam, and honestly can't say I felt anything in particular. However, one of my MS side-effects is vicious insomnia, which may have played a role in how effective any racetam would have been. (I average about 3-5 hours sleep a night; one thing I find ironic is that when they thought I was epileptic I was to take clonazpam in the morning, and now I'm to take it to help me sleep. Exercise once helped with sleep, but not anymore, and my balance/recovery time just isn't what it used to be.) Before the diagnosis, one thing that helped for bursts of clear, productive concentration was an ugly low-rent OTC method. When I was in high school, some local gas stations sold a version of pseudephedrine behind the counter to truckers to help them stay awake. But it was sold to anyone who asked, and I'd used it on occasion for late nights at work or studying. Such supplements were eventually outlawed, but most everyone knew you could get a similar effect from sudafed, which is now a hassle to get because it's used to make meth. However, I found that 120-180 mg of sudafed would help clear the cobwebs for a few hours, but that's not something I want to use regularly. I was prescribed 200 mg Provigil and later 20 mg amphetamine salts after I started crashing at odd times in odd places, waking up in the library after-hours, etc. I've experimented with 100 mg Provigil in the morning and 100 in the afternoon, with the adderall in between, or taking the adderall with the morning provigil, and with taking it all at once a while after I wake up. I can say that the 100 mg Provigil and the adderall in the a.m. and 100 mg later is probably the most effective, but it only gets me to about 60% of where I was once at, which honestly leaves me still struggling, especially at the end of the semester. For a while I was prescribed extended release adderall, and found it not very effective. I had tried idebenone before I was diagnosed, and found that it it helped some with clearer, more fluid thinking, and recently added that back into my daily doses. Questions After leaving my keys in the door again today and freaking out my wife, I'm looking for suggestions to supplement or build on the modafinil/adderall/idebenone stack. I'm assuming piracetam is the first place to start, and to be honest when I took it in the past, I combined it with choline citrate, not cdp-choline or alpha gpc choline, so I'm not sure if I was simply missing a major component and should go back to that. I've also read about L-Tyrosine and D,L-Phenylalanine to help with energy; I'm interested, but of course I first want to hear some voices of experience. Some vasodilators I'm curious about are vinpocetine, vincamine, galantamine, guanfacine and pyritinol -- all things I've looked into, but I'm hoping to get some more informed advice. I'm particularly interested in vasodilators for a couple reasons: Some recent research has discovered that people with MS tend to have very narrow or twisted jugular and azygos veins, constricing oxygen to the brain and leading to iron build-up in myelin, which in turn the immune system then attacks, leaving frayed neurons and brain lesions. This is still being studied in the US, and the only treatments currently available are surgical stent procedures being offered in Poland and Bulgaria -- not an option. However, when I have a crash attack, I've noted that my lips and hands go numb and my vision dims, which is very similar to how a blood choke feels in judo or jujitsu (grappling has come in handy). This suggests to me constricted blood flow to the brain, which may be consistent with narrow jugular/axygos veins. So I'm interested in finding a way to increase blood flow to the brain that doesn't require going to Poland to get a balloon shot into my jugular. I'm also not averse to any particular stretching/breathing exercises that would increase blood flow to the brain. After my first attack I studied meditation with a buddhist monk for six months to help get my concentration back in order so I could finish my master's degree. That helped tremendously and I still try to practice those techniques, but it's become increasingly difficult. Besides, when I do try to meditate, my two beagles tend to come up and lick my face or sit on my lap, blowing the whole concentration thing. (I know I could go to a different room, but then they think I'm playing a game and bark.) Oh -- don't know if this will make much of a difference or not, but I tend to have low blood pressure. Not dangerously low, healthily low, but low nonetheless. I know it's a lot for my first post here, but I've spent a long time lurking and have been impressed with the level of discussion, research and advice, and finally decided to pull the trigger and see what comes up. Hello there, I commend you for seeking answers instead of just accepting what allopathic medicine dictates. I'm wondering if you would consider taking mega doses of buffered natural source vitamin C. Start with 1 gram and gradually move it up. I know of someone whom had MS in Edmonton, Alberta. He began taking an American health supplement by a company called Universa. He was taking their "Ageless Extra" and something called "xperia." I am not sure in what quantity, BUT after 3 months using these nutritional supplements, he rode a bicycle in the annual MS bike fundraiser and is able to move better. It's worth a shot. I also wonder what kind of water you drink. Maybe consider trying ionized alkaline water. I switched to that water a year ago and my migraines are minimized, I have less body pain, and less brain fog. I don't have MS, but I feel better drinking at least 10 glasses of that water a day. I bought a machine from ionways. I bought their ISIS ionizer. The newer VENUS model is said to be even better, but I don't know if it's available in USA. You can look. Good luck! "pH pH is a measurement that indicates the level of alkalinity or acidity as measured on the pH scale. More and more researchers and health practitioners understand the importance of balancing body pH to maintain good health. Ionization raises or lowers the pH in water and drinking ionized alkaline water can help you maintain this ever important balance." What a load of cobblers! Small variations in potable water pH will have NO effect on physiological pH whatsoever! As soon as you swallow water it hits a pH of around 2 (it can be as low as pH1) in the stomach. Unless you drink gallons at a time (not recommended for all sorts of reasons) then the pH remaining in the stomach will be firmly acid! This evolutionary benefit allows the reduction of levels of most pathogenic bacteria and transforms the state of many chemicals that arrive there for the purposes of assisting their absorption locally or later. In most developed countries there is strict regulation of water properties, including pH, though the latter being a range (usually around 6.0 - 8.5). The human body maintains pH equilibrium on a constant basis and will not be affected by water consumption. Do I need to say more on the probable waste of money these types of products are? If you have chlorine tasting water (probably only an aesthetic issue, as many people at the front end of the distribution network will have this due to the residual required for the rest of the network) or are bothered with hardness or worried about extremely low level chemicals (pesticides, estrogen analogues etc) then use a charcoal filter. But note, that you must maintain these correctly (ie there is an ongoing cost) for many reasons, including the issues of microbiological contamination* after prolonged usage. I'd love to see definitive evidence that these types of products can be beneficial for the very wide range of health conditions that are indicated by companies. Most just make the water taste different (better???) if you're lucky or help the flavour of tea or coffee by removing some of hardness (visible or invisible scum). *There should be no pathogens in the potable water delivered to your household tap. There could be other, non-pathogenic organisms, but of course as non-pathogens they are of no consequence to health, and some even say that as natural components of water they ought to be there. Sometimes pathogens enter the potable water distribution system; maybe a broken pipe has let some contaminated material into the system. After the pipe is repaired, clean, usually chlorinated, water is flushed through the pipe to flush out the contamination. Any microbes in the flush can be trapped by the filter that you install near your tap (faucet). There the small, probably insignificant numbers can multiply and reach large, significant, numbers. As the filter nears its capacity limit (volume or time of usage) then the materials can break down. So large quantities of microbes can be released into your tap and cause illness. Thus, unless maintained rigorously, filter systems can actually cause a health risk in your water supply. I think this way, why would you trust a filter supplier but not your potable water supplier? Yes, be proactive with respect to keeping standards high, but don't waste money on extras that often have unsubstantiated claims regarding health benefits. |
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| mxyzptlk |
Jun 16, 2010, 01:08 PM
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#5
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Newbie Group: Basic Member Posts: 2 Joined: Jun 10, 2010 Member No.: 32820 |
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jun 15, 2010, 02:13 AM) I had a quick look at the Ionways page. I couldn't find any reference to scientific papers or other authoritative scientific/technical bibliography. What I did find is this type of statement, "pH pH is a measurement that indicates the level of alkalinity or acidity as measured on the pH scale. More and more researchers and health practitioners understand the importance of balancing body pH to maintain good health. Ionization raises or lowers the pH in water and drinking ionized alkaline water can help you maintain this ever important balance." What a load of cobblers! Thanks for this. I didn't reply to the first response for similar reasons, and left it at that. I also use a faucet filter for my water, and have since a college course where we studied the 1993 cryptosporidium outbreak in Milwaukee, Wisconsin's public water supply. I'm curious about the amino acid/brain protein remark -- suggestions? I mentioned L-Tyrosine and D,L-Phenylalanine, which are both amino acids with cognitive effects but I'm not all that familiar with them. |
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| tedrashwin |
Aug 07, 2012, 11:58 PM
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#6
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Newbie Group: Basic Member Posts: 2 Joined: Aug 07, 2012 Member No.: 34416 |
how similar it is on stem cell drugs that cure parkinson's also do ms treatment ?
__________________________ Is that another from of cell therapy? Check out. I had my aunt undergo stem cell - ms treatment |
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