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> Best place to buy Piracetam/Nooracetam, Piracetam/Nooracetam
Goddess
post Nov 02, 2009, 08:27 PM
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Hello,
I am in the Bay Area and my health food store only has Nooracetam 800 mg capsules, I would like to try Piracetam, and am wondering what are the best brands and which stores have you been purchasing through?
thanks
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Isochroma
post Jun 25, 2010, 01:44 PM
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It's been a while since I've posted here, so would like to give everyone an update on my progress with Piracetam, and also my experiences with its suppliers, namely the two who have provided the majority of orders: Smart Powders and Cerebral Health.

I started piracetam with my first order - which at the time due to lack of investigation was purchased for a rather high price on eBay - on July 10th, 2008.

When it arrived on the 20th I excitedly scooped up a heaping tablespoon and, stuffing it in my mouth drank the stuff down with a glass of water, while my friend seemed shocked that I'd eaten a whole four grams :) I was at his place where the order had arrived.

At the forty minute mark as I prepared to leave, the effects were already becoming evident: visual clarity, mental clarity, and the magic feeling that all those characteristics of my younger years - I was 30 at the time - were beginning to reappear. I'd been struggling with a loss of ability to stay awake during the day despite good sleep, loss of mental clarity, low-quality sleep with decreased dreaming.

From that fateful day until today, I have maintained a high-dose piracetam regime with dosing at the four-hour mark for half that time, and the latter half dosing every three hours. Most won't require such high and frequent dosing, but I felt and do feel that it has its advantages for difficult cases like mine.

Within the first week of starting the daily mental tiredness that had become steadily worse for years was in full retreat, like some defeated enemy that waves the proverbial white flag of surrender. Looking out a window revealed landscapes that looked more like highly detailed paintings of very saturated colors and the kind of sharpness one would expect of a ten-megapixel digital camera compared to an old 16mm film unit.

Sleep became easier as the old insomnia decreased substantially, dreams became vivid once more, I awoke every single day to a freshness and clarity that was immediate rather than the old feeling that I hadn't obtained enough sleep - even after 10-12 hour sleeps.

It should be noted that I don't take alcohol or caffeine, and do take a range of vitamin and mineral supplements including fish oil. Before starting piracetam I'd also been taking four grams per day of fish oil - along with the other supplements - with only slight enhancement of dreaming.

After the first two months the last traces of old degeneracies had vanished completely, and only the clock told me when to hit the bed. After only seven to eight hours of sleep I was waking totally refreshed and ready for a day of computer work. One of the best effects on sleep was the new ability to shift my sleep cycle without paying the price of what's often called jet-lag.

All day I was and am able to think at a higher level than before, and the beautiful super-sharp saturated vision remains. No 'tolerance' or decreased effect has ever been noted.

Since then I have never experienced any side effect or withdrawal effect - several times due to shipping delays I was deprived of this miracle molecule, but never more than a week.

Soon I decided to try the other racetams, hoping they might have even better effects. So I ordered and tried aniracetam, oxiracetam and pramiracetam. Aniracetam proved to caused drowsiness and a kind of temporal missync between brain and body. Oxiracetam was sweet and had a slightly higher effect on visual color saturation and clarity, but was otherwise hard to distinguish from piracetam except for its ability to empty my wallet with high speed. Pramiracetam tasted like a million ants biting my tongue, and did have a slightly stronger effect than piracetam, providing a higher intellectual level with minimal side effects, but much higher price.

So I stuck with piracetam.

As for suppliers, besides various eBay sellers who I quickly abandoned due to their high prices, Smart Powders and Cerebral Health have been my main suppliers.

Unfortunately, a recent order from Smart Powders was intercepted by Canada Customs. Though legal for me to import, I was made to go through a veritable rat-maze of red-tape paperwork and telephonic back-and-forth to get the material released. The order was eventually released and I received it, but the stress and time to deal with the problem made me look for a supplier who wouldn't be a target for those great protectors of the populace from the evil of independent imports.

So I found Cerebral Health and since the first order from them, not a single one has vanished or been red-taped by Customs. So I continue to use their service, and of course the material quality is as perfect as it can be - though I have no gas chromatograph or HPLC to check purity. My brain says that all suppliers whose piracetam came through have been found to supply the correct chemical, though often with different crystal sizes.

For Canadians - and likely anyone who orders from outside the United States - it seems that Cerebral Health is likely to be the safest choice for a supplier. Their order record on my side indicates their reliability at 100%. In addition the proprietor of Smart Powders and his business attracts more attention from authorities due to its size and the way it is widely promoted. These factors are positive in the sense that they are what's advocated in Business 101, but in the case of a substance liable to border interception it seems that 'flying low' as Cerebral Health does prevents the authorities from blacklisting them. It also seems that international orders are less likely to be intercepted if sent by postal mail than private courier, at least to Canada. Cerebral Health sends by postal mail, Smart Powders by private courier. Both provide tracking, so the service quality is equal.

I'd recommend piracetam for anyone who wants to have a better-working brain, as a mechanic would recommend the best lubricant and highest-octane fuel for a car engine that will work cleanly and for its maximum lifetime. It's amazing how much guys spend on optimizing their cars with all the highest-quality fluids, best tweaks and regular maintenance, compared to how much is spent on making their brains truly healthy.

The most important factor that make us human and differentiates us from all other species on the planet is our brain. So we ought to do our best to protect it, upgrade it and keep it from the damages of abuse and time. Piracetam is the single cheapest, safest and most legal way to do so, by its actions of regrowing neural receptors, refluidizing cell membranes, enhancing metabolic efficiency and reducing platelet aggregation, which aids both cerebral microcirculation and prevents heart attacks.
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chrono
post Jun 26, 2010, 09:03 PM
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Glad to hear you're doing better, Isochroma happy.gif
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GodConsciousness
post Jun 27, 2010, 05:21 AM
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Eloquent review Iso!

Good to especially hear that you have not experienced any withdrawal symptoms or decreased effect. Ala Dr. Giurgea (the original developer of piracetam), this is one of the beauties of a 'true nootropic'. Nootropics should not be addictive or have any adverse side effects. I hope that cognitive enhancement development in the future can be true to Dr. Giurgea's vision.
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Crick
post Sep 15, 2010, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE(Isochroma @ Jun 25, 2010, 01:44 PM) *

It's been a while since I've posted here, so would like to give everyone an update on my progress with Piracetam, and also my experiences with its suppliers, namely the two who have provided the majority of orders: Smart Powders and Cerebral Health.

I started piracetam with my first order - which at the time due to lack of investigation was purchased for a rather high price on eBay - on July 10th, 2008.

When it arrived on the 20th I excitedly scooped up a heaping tablespoon and, stuffing it in my mouth drank the stuff down with a glass of water, while my friend seemed shocked that I'd eaten a whole four grams smile.gif I was at his place where the order had arrived.

At the forty minute mark as I prepared to leave, the effects were already becoming evident: visual clarity, mental clarity, and the magic feeling that all those characteristics of my younger years - I was 30 at the time - were beginning to reappear. I'd been struggling with a loss of ability to stay awake during the day despite good sleep, loss of mental clarity, low-quality sleep with decreased dreaming.

From that fateful day until today, I have maintained a high-dose piracetam regime with dosing at the four-hour mark for half that time, and the latter half dosing every three hours. Most won't require such high and frequent dosing, but I felt and do feel that it has its advantages for difficult cases like mine.

Within the first week of starting the daily mental tiredness that had become steadily worse for years was in full retreat, like some defeated enemy that waves the proverbial white flag of surrender. Looking out a window revealed landscapes that looked more like highly detailed paintings of very saturated colors and the kind of sharpness one would expect of a ten-megapixel digital camera compared to an old 16mm film unit.

Sleep became easier as the old insomnia decreased substantially, dreams became vivid once more, I awoke every single day to a freshness and clarity that was immediate rather than the old feeling that I hadn't obtained enough sleep - even after 10-12 hour sleeps.

It should be noted that I don't take alcohol or caffeine, and do take a range of vitamin and mineral supplements including fish oil. Before starting piracetam I'd also been taking four grams per day of fish oil - along with the other supplements - with only slight enhancement of dreaming.

After the first two months the last traces of old degeneracies had vanished completely, and only the clock told me when to hit the bed. After only seven to eight hours of sleep I was waking totally refreshed and ready for a day of computer work. One of the best effects on sleep was the new ability to shift my sleep cycle without paying the price of what's often called jet-lag.

All day I was and am able to think at a higher level than before, and the beautiful super-sharp saturated vision remains. No 'tolerance' or decreased effect has ever been noted.

Since then I have never experienced any side effect or withdrawal effect - several times due to shipping delays I was deprived of this miracle molecule, but never more than a week.

Soon I decided to try the other racetams, hoping they might have even better effects. So I ordered and tried aniracetam, oxiracetam and pramiracetam. Aniracetam proved to caused drowsiness and a kind of temporal missync between brain and body. Oxiracetam was sweet and had a slightly higher effect on visual color saturation and clarity, but was otherwise hard to distinguish from piracetam except for its ability to empty my wallet with high speed. Pramiracetam tasted like a million ants biting my tongue, and did have a slightly stronger effect than piracetam, providing a higher intellectual level with minimal side effects, but much higher price.

So I stuck with piracetam.

As for suppliers, besides various eBay sellers who I quickly abandoned due to their high prices, Smart Powders and Cerebral Health have been my main suppliers.

Unfortunately, a recent order from Smart Powders was intercepted by Canada Customs. Though legal for me to import, I was made to go through a veritable rat-maze of red-tape paperwork and telephonic back-and-forth to get the material released. The order was eventually released and I received it, but the stress and time to deal with the problem made me look for a supplier who wouldn't be a target for those great protectors of the populace from the evil of independent imports.

So I found Cerebral Health and since the first order from them, not a single one has vanished or been red-taped by Customs. So I continue to use their service, and of course the material quality is as perfect as it can be - though I have no gas chromatograph or HPLC to check purity. My brain says that all suppliers whose piracetam came through have been found to supply the correct chemical, though often with different crystal sizes.

For Canadians - and likely anyone who orders from outside the United States - it seems that Cerebral Health is likely to be the safest choice for a supplier. Their order record on my side indicates their reliability at 100%. In addition the proprietor of Smart Powders and his business attracts more attention from authorities due to its size and the way it is widely promoted. These factors are positive in the sense that they are what's advocated in Business 101, but in the case of a substance liable to border interception it seems that 'flying low' as Cerebral Health does prevents the authorities from blacklisting them. It also seems that international orders are less likely to be intercepted if sent by postal mail than private courier, at least to Canada. Cerebral Health sends by postal mail, Smart Powders by private courier. Both provide tracking, so the service quality is equal.

I'd recommend piracetam for anyone who wants to have a better-working brain, as a mechanic would recommend the best lubricant and highest-octane fuel for a car engine that will work cleanly and for its maximum lifetime. It's amazing how much guys spend on optimizing their cars with all the highest-quality fluids, best tweaks and regular maintenance, compared to how much is spent on making their brains truly healthy.

The most important factor that make us human and differentiates us from all other species on the planet is our brain. So we ought to do our best to protect it, upgrade it and keep it from the damages of abuse and time. Piracetam is the single cheapest, safest and most legal way to do so, by its actions of regrowing neural receptors, refluidizing cell membranes, enhancing metabolic efficiency and reducing platelet aggregation, which aids both cerebral microcirculation and prevents heart attacks.



Great review man! That was incredibly helpful! I have been interested as to whether I can take piracetam everyday without side effects - so you didn't find it to be unsafe then?
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post Sep 15, 2010, 09:14 PM
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Isochroma
post Sep 17, 2010, 12:31 PM
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No side effects. Just lots of fun and a better life.
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Maya1986
post Jan 16, 2011, 01:46 AM
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I am selling oxiracetam if anyone is intrested. Gotta be quick though because I only got 1 package left. Its 60 pills, contains 750 mg. Dossage recommended is 1 a day.
So if anyone is interested let me know.
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Jakare
post Jan 18, 2011, 07:41 PM
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For me i find mixing 1g to 1.5g of piracetam with 0.25g to 0.5g of pramiracetam to be the best combination. Maybe i should try higher doses of piracetam.
Agree oxiracetam seems a little bit better than piracetam but do not worth the price.
Weird enough i notice the drowsiness from aniracetam lately. Never before.
After nearly one year of using racetams im still not sure if i need choline or not. So that probably means i dont need it but anyway i take small doses of Alpha gpc or choline bitartrate.
Im curious if you ,Isochroma, do need any choline at all with those high doses of piracetam.
Cerebralhealth is one of my suppliers and i think is good and professional but anyway bussines is bussines so i always look for the best price on a few well reputated shops.
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Isochroma
post Jan 19, 2011, 12:33 PM
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There happens to be 210mg of choline bitartrate in my time-release B-complex pill, of which I take one per day. It's Natural Factors B-100, and I've been taking it all my life. Other than that, I don't eat any eggs at all - the yolks give me gas. I do eat meat - almost every day! And lots of dairy - cottage cheese. There's a joke about that one - tell me if you want to hear it.

As for piracetam, it still works as well as it did the first time, even after years of use. A spoonful every three hours all day. I go thru about 1.1kg of the stuff every month, which works out to 36g/day. No side effects even at higher doses, all without taking any significantly 'extra' choline. Myths die hard though. There are others in various forums that can attest to the same thing.

Finally, a small subset of the population may have a higher need for choline when taking piracetam. It's up to each person to test it for themselves, by first starting with piracetam only.

If you're mixing things from the start you'll never know the truth. Excess choline has nasty side effects like headaches and depression, from certain other forum users' posts. I don't have the posts or links though. What I do know from reading thousands of posts on this forum and many others, is that the majority of people will not need a choline supplement to avoid piracetam's minor and usually transient side-effects, namely headache and brain fog. Neither will this majority require a choline supplement to realize the full benefit of piracetam. Remember I'm talking about normal people with decent diets, not starving Africans. People who eat at least a bit of meat/dairy/eggs, which all supply the natural, minimal amount of choline needed.

Animal studies are misleading because human choline needs are very different from animals, and their brains are also very different in metabolic requirements.

Just last night I enjoyed another wonderful dream, among many that I live through each night. It's so beautiful to sing to the universe and levitate. Piracetam has the best power - seconded only by high-dose fish oil - to bring clarity, focus, colour and energy into dreaming. Which means amazing dreams every single night! Beautiful terrible horrors encased in worlds both close and far from this one. Like finding viral executables running in Task Manager - another treat from last nite's dreamsession.
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Christsean
post Jan 26, 2011, 01:50 PM
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How do you know if you need choline? What are the effects of choline deficiency?
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Isochroma
post Jan 26, 2011, 04:31 PM
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Choline deficiency symptoms here.

In first-world countries frank choline deficiency is rare. 210mg/day choline bitartrate is sufficient for me, along with some meat every few days. It's not something to worry about - but someone wanting to have a good supply need only eat some eggs/meat/dairy on a regular basis. Choline citrate and other salts are cheaply available but should not be taken in large amounts unless there's a need.

Let me say this: I've read hundreds of posts on users' experiences with piracetam. Some took too much choline and found themselves becoming depressed; others noticed no difference. None had deficiency symptoms. A small percentage reported certain piracetam side-effects decreased or disappeared when they supplemented choline - less than the percentage of people who reported negative effects from taking choline.

For someone wanting to start piracetam, I'd recommend taking the piracetam alone for at least a week before adding anything else. After that, if undesireable side effects manifest and won't go away then supplemental choline can be tried.

As for the big, statistical picture, it seems that people fall into only a few groups so far as their response to piracetam. There are the positive responders, non-responders, and negative responders. In the third case, most will achieve positive effects just by lowering their dose or waiting for at least 1-2 weeks for their metabolic processes to accomodate.

Among the small fraction who can't accomodate despite time and dose changes, some will benefit from choline supplementation. It seems there are a few distinct genetic 'pools' that most everyone belongs to, in regards to both piracetam response and choline response. Those who need to supplement with choline I call 'inefficient recyclers' while the majority who don't need choline I call 'efficient recyclers'. Their brains recycle acetylcholine/choline well, so adding more can cause overdose symptoms or not provide benefit. Everyone's brain recycles choline - if they didn't then large doses of the stuff would have to be consumed in the diet just to survive.

The difference between the 'efficient' recyclers and the 'less-efficient' folks is likely small, but becomes significant and obviously evident when piracetam enters the picture. Piracetam acts as a diagnostic - a kind of genetic test if you will. Science hasn't sufficiently explored why there is so much response variation. Piracetam intake quickly shows the previously hidden differences between only a few 'basic engine designs' present in the general population's genetics.

Most drugs aren't like this. Both pharmaceuticals and commonly-used legal drugs produce predictable, uniform results across large populations. For example 90%+ of users will respond the same way to amphetamine, caffeine, alcohol, or aspirin (acetylsalicyclic acid). It's one of the reasons these substances are so popular and widely used. There's always a few outliers (unusual responders), but they are a tiny minority.

One of the reasons piracetam isn't so widely approved for use is that - unlike most other drugs - its users split into a few distinct large pools. Government regulators (ie. FDA) like to see a uniform, predictable response, as well as certain other things like a well-understood mode of action - why it works. Not only is Piracetam's MOA not well understood, but worse - it's users split up not into one big pool with a few small ones off to the side, but a few big pools. That means there are two or more major 'genetic designs' in the masses' brains, instead of just one major 'standard design' and a few very minor or unusual 'special designs'.

The inefficient recyclers have a high loss of choline, which is nonetheless OK until they start taking piracetam - which at least temporarily causes growth in the cholinergic system, thus tipping them into deficiency.

Even efficient recyclers can suffer temporary deficiency symptoms due to the rapid cholinergic restructuring. However, in the course of a week or two their symptoms subside as their internal 'pool' of choline is built up again and efficiently re-used. As one of those folks, I did get temporary headaches and interdose slumps in the second week - they quickly disappeared and never came back.

Inefficient recylers' symptoms won't disappear after a week or a year or a lifetime, because their genetic design means their cholinergic system is lossier. Thinking evolutionarily, there must be a nearly equal benefit to the lossy design too - since they constitute a minor yet significant fraction of the population. Over the course of human evolution there was an advantage to that design - or less net disadvantage compared to the high choline retention design.

Vegans (no animal products at all) will likely need to supplement - whichever their genetic design. This is because plant foods are very poor sources of choline, and human synthesis can't quite keep up with needs. A diet that includes some animal foods on a regular basis is likely to be sufficient for most.

Finally, the dietary fat composition is important. At least one poster has reported that supplementing with fish oil relieved him of piracetam symptoms. I myself was already taking 4g/day of fish oil when I started piracetam, and now take 7-14g/day. Both fish oil and piracetam have strong effects on neural membrane composition and behaviour, and fish oil has plenty of other strong brain effects in addition. Incidentally, omega-3 deficiency is widespread in North America and other 'first world' nations where most piracetam is consumed.

Caffeine and other stimulants can amplify the 'slump', fuzziness or sleepiness that can occur during initial dosing. Piracetam makes the power of stimulants greater, but in some cases can cause the smooth up-peak-decline slope of a stimulant to be much steeper and taller, with a deeper crash at the end - caffeine in particular. I don't take any caffeine or alcohol, but others have reported this.

Nicotine is a strong cholinergic and creates a long-term modulation or modification of the entire cholinergic system. From Wikipedia: "Nicotine acts on the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, specifically the ganglion type nicotinic receptor and one CNS nicotinic receptor." Smokers will likely have a very different response to piracetam, choline and the two combined than non-smokers.
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Christsean
post Jan 27, 2011, 04:12 AM
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Good stuff Isochroma! I started a regimen of Piracetam with Alpha-GPC just recently. I had to stop taking the Aplha-GPC because it was making me foggy-headed and I had a sensation of nausea/dizziness. It was really strange. I also felt frontal lobe pressure. This has ceased since I stopped taking the Alpha-GPC. I am going to try not taking any choline for awhile. The Piracetam seems to be working without any sides so far. I eat very healthy and am sure that I get enough choline in my regular diet.

Do you know what may cause mild headaches with the Piracetam and what to do about it? Caffeine alleviates the pain for the most part.
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Isochroma
post Jan 27, 2011, 10:58 AM
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Classic choline overdose symptoms. Alpha-GPC - by reports I've read on this and other forums - has been responsible for more negative reactions than any other form of the stuff. Paradoxically, it's probably because the product is so efficient at delivering choline to already oversaturated brains :) It's overpriced too.

As for mild headaches, they're common when first starting piracetam. I had a very slight mild headache on and off for the first week, then it went away. Caffeine can relieve such headaches, but causes them too! Caffeine withdrawal can cause up to a month's worth of headaches. I'd be careful with taking it during piracetam supplementation.

One of my friends had to give up piracetam after a week due to worsening headaches. But he was a regular caffeine consumer, so I can't say for sure what caused it but... it's another data point.

Few years back I gave a friend a teaspoon of piracetam, and later he told me it made him jittery. I thought it strange, since piracetam doesn't do that. So I asked him if he took any caffeine, and I'll be damned - just minutes before I'd given him the dose (he'd just dropped by so I didn't know) he'd drank a cup of coffee.

Other substances can give a false impression of piracetam, especially at the start when the brain's busy restructuring. Someone I know even refused to try piracetam when I told them it has interactions with caffeine (they couldn't even stand the thought of giving up their high-dose coffee regimen). It never occured to that person that they might not ever need caffeine again - and its nasty, addictive side-effects - if they switched to piracetam.
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Christsean
post Jan 27, 2011, 11:57 AM
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Today I have not had a headache at all. As far as choline goes, I'm going to try the Piracetam without it for awhile. I really would like to just be able to take my Piracetam and eat my normal diet and not dive into all the extra. I can function relatively well without anything. I just wanted to try Piracetam because of the brain benefits. I'm not looking to be any smarter, just a more healthy brain. I try to take care of my self with consciencious eating habits/lifestyle. I take a few supplements (flax/fish oil, glucosamine, pro-biotics) I try to supply everything else with healthy eating and about 30 minutes of walking/jogging. I consider my brain my greatest asset(duh!) I figure if something like Piracetam can help preserve it, I'm in. As far as going crazy supplementing, I want to try to refrain. I am glad this board is available. I like to research and to have real life feedback is great to me.

I should be recieving some aniracetam today. Do you have any experience with this Isochroma?
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Isochroma
post Jan 27, 2011, 12:28 PM
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You've got a good chance of being fine with just piracetam and a decent diet, like most folks - including me :) I wince whenever I'm on those bodybuilding forums and everyone's talking about their 'stack'. I do take a wide range of vitamins and minerals but other than those dietary factors, piracetam's the only synthetic.

I've also tried Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, and Pramiracetam.

Aniracetam: made me sleepy, vision very clear with about 15% higher colour saturation than piracetam gives. The dose was about a half-teaspoon once a day. I wasn't thinking very much, and it was very difficult to get anything done, or rather there seemed to be nothing to do. Empty head? Yet I couldn't even doze off during the day. Walked a bit like a drunkard, a bit of an S-curve on the path. Felt floaty. Not really safe to ride a bike. I used up about most of my 30g that way over the course of about a week, then decided it wasn't how I wanted to be and flushed the rest.

Oxiracetam: Nice clear feeling, just like piracetam but less electric. Colour saturation is also about 10-15% higher than piracetam. Effects subside quicker than piracetam. Taste is sweet! Note: can be used as a zero-calorie sweetener. It's not metabolized - just like piracetam - and does not affect blood sugar. Could be approved as a 'food additive: sweetener'. Trojan horse for gettting it onto the market. Unlike Aspartame and other synthetic sweeteners, it doesn't cause cancer or metabolize into toxic chemicals. I ate it up real quick due to the taste, and it ate up all the bills in my wallet in a flash. Due to excessive cost, I - regretfully - dropped it. If money was no object I'd be using it by the cupful for a sugar substitute.

Of all the piracetam derivatives, Oxiracetam is the closest in composition and structure. There is only one oxygen atom added to the piracetam molecule (-H becomes -OH) - that tiny conformal change is enough to:

1. Increase the potency
2. Make a bitter powder sweet
3. Qualitatively change the effects (slightly)

I'd like to emphasize that neither piracetam nor oxiracetam is metabolized. These are 'teflon molecules' so to speak - they don't break down in the body or participate in any chemical reactions. They work like prions do - their electric fields change the shape and behaviour of molecules around them just by the physical pressure of field-against-field. Like having a rock under yer pillow. Even a princess can feel a pea under a dozen mattresses.

Pramiracetam: a million ants biting my tongue. The raw powder is vicious and leaves the tongue red like it's been abraded by fine sandpaper. Rather than having a taste, it's like thousands of microblades cutting and scraping the taste-buds. As for effects, a slight bit of the sleepiness of aniracetam, some of the clarity of piracetam, and after a week a significant boost in brainpower. I ate what I could but the tongue death and price doomed the remainder to the latrine. I didn't really love the slight sleepiness, but it wouldn't hold me off if it didn't also cost a mint and taste worse than a spoonful of fire ants.

The most important thing to remember about the piracetam derivatives is that they are qualitatively different than piracetam. They aren't even 'more potent' per se but just different, and they affect different people differently. Some feel highly stimulated on aniracetam while piracetam makes them sleepy. Your brainage may vary. The one common thing among these derivatives is that they all cost a mint and the best of them is only a bit more 'powerful' than piracetam.
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Alittke
post Jan 27, 2011, 01:25 PM
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I've been reading a lot about piracetam lately and being an intellectual who seems to have loss motivation for anything in life as well as gained a case of severe depression over the past couple years, I am interested in giving it a try. The only problem i'm having is finding a reliable place to buy from. Could someone recommend a place to order from that I can trust to ship? thankyou!
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Isochroma
post Jan 27, 2011, 01:42 PM
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Yes, the topic! Let us all take a moment to remember our dear, almost-departed topic :)

I've been ordering piracetam once a month for the last two years from Cerebral Health. No lost orders or other mistakes. Now that Mike lost his Smart Powders piracetam business due to medical claims, CH is one of the few suppliers left. He is a great guy and real PhD scientist too, not just some flashy pump-and-dump marketer like Mike.

He's in the US and also ships international - I live in Canada. He's got good mojo with the Customs dudes - unlike Mike, who was much-hated by them. Something I found out the hard way when more than one of his shipments to me was impounded by Customs. Was quite a bit o' work pulling those orders outta them gov't dogs' teeth, but I did eventually get 'em.
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Alittke
post Jan 27, 2011, 03:17 PM
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thankyou! i appreciate it very much. I am going to put in an order immediately. I'm excited to see what affects it has on me. From everything I've read it seems like fish oil in the regard that it has many outstanding positive effects and any negative sides are few and mild. I have an appointment with my physician tomorrow as well so I suppose I could always ask him further about it.
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Christsean
post Jan 28, 2011, 05:41 AM
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Thanks Isochroma for all the valuable input. I just tried the aniracetam with the piracetam. It is pretty outstanding so far. I am very focused and relaxed at the same time. I have a sense of well-being that almost feels euphoric. Pretty nice effect.
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Christsean
post Feb 07, 2011, 01:45 PM
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To answer the question to this old post: CerebralHealth.com hands down!
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nito
post Feb 10, 2011, 03:56 PM
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just bought pira from cereberal health as relentless improvement had it sold out. I've been unlucky with pira in the past from smaprtpowders so i'll see how this goes. Next would be trying the pill form and after that ill give up on pira and try either oxi or pram.
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GodConsciousness
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Just a heads up- we (Cerebral Health) ran out of stock of piracetam this week due to high demand. A new batch is on the way and should be available by Feb 15.
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Isochroma
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:07 PM
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Excellent: I shall be ordering on February 16th. It's good to hear that demand is picking up, and it's about time to see more people turning away from toxic, depleting consumer-drugs and toward health-replenishing, brain-restoring racetams :)

Dollar for dollar, racetams - piracetam in particular - deliver real, cumulative benefits which are also concrete investments in future health. Even as the economy is in recession and people are hurting, the fundamental value of piracetam keeps them coming back time after time.

There is simply no replacement.
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GodConsciousness
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:14 PM
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We have also been going through an FDA audit and inspection this week and things have been going fairly well. I have also had the opportunity to talk directly about the racetams and specifically in regards to piracetam. They said that nootropics and cognitive enhancers are a new area for them and I gave them more detail about how piracetam is derived. It looks like they are going to allow us to continue offering piracetam for the time being, but if a big pharma company gets piracetam through all stages of clinical trials, piracetam would be pulled from the market. This will cost about $100 million to do and may only effect piracetam.
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Isochroma
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:21 PM
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I don't see why just because it is approved that you can't sell it, if the approval is for general use without a prescription. And of course, even such a thing happens, you can export internationally.

What I do know is that if it is subjected to the unfair, profit-grabbing big-pharma system then the entire market will be destroyed. Nobody's going to pay 10x or 100x more for such a simple, off-patent molecule. My previous post highlighted the value proposition, but that argument will be decimated by both the inevitable price increase and restricted availability if it is made prescription-only.

If worst comes to worst, US buyers will have to find other suppliers like I have - in China - to import from. I'm not using those suppliers yet because CH is still here. They are backups and if he goes or the market is destroyed by the FDA then I will just switch. I've already set everything up.

For those that want a future worth living in, they will have to prepare now for what is inevitably to come.

Anyone who has a real medical need for racetams has got to start finding out where else to get them from - backup sources for the sad day when the Feds come knocking on CH's door with their legal death-notice, like they did with Mike at Smart Powders. There's a concerted - conscious and organized - effort going on in the US to prevent people from having economic access to good medicine.

They only want to sell toxic drugs like amphetamines and antidepressants. The kind of drugs that make peoples' problems worse and turn them into burnt-out addicts. That's where the corporate profits are: healthy people are just unprofitable, and without monopolies there are no monopoly profits.

The US is a corporate oligarchy and it's going down the tubes real quick. There will be no freedom left in the USA soon - even for the cautious. Mike at Smart Powders was just the canary in the coalmine. He was the easiest victim to target. Now that they're done with him they'll pick the next lowest hanging fruit - CH.
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GodConsciousness
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:26 PM
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It is imperative to avoid any medical claims whatsoever. If big pharma goes after piracetam there may be a chance to have it grandfathered in as a dietary supplement.
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GodConsciousness
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:29 PM
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The FDA can inspect any supplement facility at any time without warning. They have instituted new compliance rules for all size supplement companies which will likely wipe out quite a few companies. Our inspector has actually been pretty cool and is giving me some good guidance to make our operations even better.
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GodConsciousness
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:46 PM
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Iso- there is no doubt there are some serious political issues in the US and drug policy. I personally find it a bit absurd that no one can say that any natural substance (or largely naturally derived) can be medically beneficial unless they pay $100 million. I understand the need to scientifically back up claims, but it has gone a bit too far. Big pharma basically has a monopoly on medical terminology and has so infiltrated medical education institutions that an MD education is becoming more and more simply big pharma indoctrination. Surgeons and other medical specialties may be a different story.
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Isochroma
post Feb 10, 2011, 04:54 PM
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The unstated goal is indeed to 'wipe out' the 'small supplement companies'. I read just last week by the FDA's own figures that there were zero deaths due to herbs, vitamins and supplements combined, while just one (take your pick) pharma drug caused thousands of deaths.

In other words, these 'inspections' aren't happening because the FDA cares about US consumers' health; rather, they serve two other purposes: one, to bankrupt small producers that can't afford expensive equipment, bribes or other administrative costs, and two, these inspections allow the FDA to find out what's going on. They are actually 'searches' in disguise - like when the cops come in with a warrant, except without the warrant.

Like any predator, the FDA first circles around its prey. Like any good wolf, it knows to find its prey's weak points first. And so it starts from a distance, looking and smelling for any weaknesses. Then when it's ready it goes in for the kill, like it did with Mike. They didn't just drop by one day and tell him to shut down. Instead, they scoped his operation and even sent him warning letters for months.

Even a stupid sheep will run away or flock together with its herd in defense formation when it sees or smells a wolf. But Mike thought he was a wolf even as his wooly coat was saying something quite different to the drooling beast eyeing him in the distance. Maybe they taught him in bizness school to act like a wolf for higher profits. Instead he got a longer rap sheet.

I'll congratulate him on one thing though: he did better than any wolf could have and managed to lead his entire flock over the cliff.
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