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> Antidepressants forever?
Hey Hey
post Oct 23, 2009, 03:12 PM
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I had a haircut today. The lady that cut my hair said that she started to come off antidepressants a couple of weeks ago. She halved the dose but had bad withdrawal symptoms. Her doctor said to stop them outright as there will be repercussions anyway so just go the whole hog.

She seemed so much happier than I've seen her over the last couple of years.

I don't know what the medication was, as I felt it might be too intrusive to ask.

Whatever, did they work? Was it time for her to resume her "native" serotonin again? Did the treatment leave her with elevated serotonin levels? What about the length of treatment anyway? Are there long term treatment scenarios in patients that could be terminated but aren't? What about side-effects versus benefits? ... What's going on? ...
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Rick
post Oct 23, 2009, 08:02 PM
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It's good to know that she can quit and be happy. I would have assumed, knowing the pharmaceutical companies, that there would be hell to pay.
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rhymer
post Oct 24, 2009, 03:12 PM
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several sites cover this topic eg....
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/179/42/s4.pdf

I have been taking AD's for 19 years now adn haevt'n scene ayn bda seid efex.

I think that odd cases of unsuspected experiences will always arise and think that, in any case, attempts to manage without medication should be tried perhaps every 6 months under the GP's control (usually with a gradual removal of the drugs).
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Phi
post Oct 25, 2009, 07:07 AM
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too bad that most people wont follow the regimen the way it's directed.

realistically, the reason why drug companies profit so much is because there is no follow-through...either on the side of the patient or the provider.

not everyone who needs help has access to reliable treatment because of financial status or health coverage or ignorance.

it's just my opinion that a majority of people seeking help through antidepressants won't get the correct treatment, and there are plenty of ways to function efficiently without that route.

if one cares to know, I believe the goal of the regimen is to initiate personal choice....and I'd be willing to prove it if anyone disagrees
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Tone
post Nov 07, 2009, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Oct 25, 2009, 09:07 AM) *

too bad that most people wont follow the regimen the way it's directed.

realistically, the reason why drug companies profit so much is because there is no follow-through...either on the side of the patient or the provider.

not everyone who needs help has access to reliable treatment because of financial status or health coverage or ignorance.

it's just my opinion that a majority of people seeking help through antidepressants won't get the correct treatment, and there are plenty of ways to function efficiently without that route.

if one cares to know, I believe the goal of the regimen is to initiate personal choice....and I'd be willing to prove it if anyone disagrees



you are totally wrong, "antidepressants" have never helped any true-depressive no matter what way they are used, after no matter how many years, after no matter what combinations. I got out of bed at 7:00 PM today. I had 11 doctors over 14 years. Following "regimens" does not work at all and never has. I have never once gotten any relief from any "antidepressant", save for dozens of stablon tablets having a MINIMAL effect that allows me to leave my home for a bit but still not do much in pain and suffering. No one else like me has ever gotten any help from any medical establishment but there is a black-out on this and people with Pseudo-depression are covered instead, because going from 'feeling fine and cocky', to feeling 'fine and cocky' (no change) can be lied about as "the drugs worked".
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Phi
post Nov 08, 2009, 03:41 AM
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no doubt that it won't work for everyone.
i was referring to how much money is really made off of the way the medical system is set up(especially in the context of anti-depressants).

the way things are going, i hope that things are developed for those who are in more extreme conditions.
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Tone
post Dec 02, 2009, 05:03 PM
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they dont work for anyone with real depression, just a placebo effect on false depression thats then reported as a percentage success rat. the real rate is zero, just like aspirin would help zero percent of people with a ruptured spinal disc.
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Hey Hey
post Dec 03, 2009, 09:24 AM
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QUOTE(Tone @ Nov 08, 2009, 02:56 AM) *
you are totally wrong, "antidepressants" have never helped any true-depressive no matter what way they are used, after no matter how many years, after no matter what combinations.
I sympathise with your condition.

I wondered if you could provide a list of all depression patients and the medication they are/were on so that I could appraise their situation. As your statement suggests you know them all I thought it might be good to take advantage of your insights.
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rhymer
post Feb 20, 2010, 03:38 AM
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Tone does not apparently have depression, or maybe he has not tried the right antidepressant yet. (I tried about 15). They certainly changed my life significantly!!

New research reports a better understanding of how AD's work - at least some of them.....

http://www.physorg.com/news185727145.html
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Flex
post Feb 20, 2010, 10:23 AM
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Nope, people don't really have any idea how this shit actually works. No one knows how consciousness works, so knowing how monoamines function in perception is not possible. Look, in the not so near future, for a new class of antidepressants that act on VMAT rather than the traditional reuptake route. The preliminary work is showing lots of promise for antidepressant treatment, and Parkinson's treatment as well.
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Hey Hey
post Feb 20, 2010, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Feb 20, 2010, 06:23 PM) *

Nope, people don't really have any idea how this shit actually works. No one knows how consciousness works, so knowing how monoamines function in perception is not possible. Look, in the not so near future, for a new class of antidepressants that act on VMAT rather than the traditional reuptake route. The preliminary work is showing lots of promise for antidepressant treatment, and Parkinson's treatment as well.
Why would you consider vesicular monoamine transporter modifiers to be superior in vivo to any other antidepressants?

Is all of this because you are a reserpine fan? It of course is known as a VMAT inhibitor.
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Flex
post Feb 20, 2010, 01:12 PM
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Why would you target reuptake? Just a different way to impact neurotransmitter release. There are basically 3 different neurotransmitter pools, and changing concentrations in the different pools can have a significant impact. For Parkinson's it is thought that a part of the problem is that dopamine is oxidized in the cytoplasm, so getting more dopamine into vesicles prevents this oxidation from taking place. The idea is actually almost the exact opposite of Reserpine, which causes an assload of problems, because neurotransmitters need to be packaged in order to be released. Reserpine follows the same line of thinking as the other forms of treatment--to inhibit.

A major advantage of this system over targeting reuptake, is to target specific modalities of release (synaptic vesicles vs. large dense core vesicles). Another advantage, is that rather than inhibiting like MAOIs SSRIs etc. you are optimizing efficiency. If someone is deficient in serotonin, it doesn't make sense to me to inhibit the patients body further, but rather to enhance.
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Hey Hey
post Feb 20, 2010, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Feb 20, 2010, 09:12 PM) *

Why would you target reuptake? Just a different way to impact neurotransmitter release. There are basically 3 different neurotransmitter pools, and changing concentrations in the different pools can have a significant impact. For Parkinson's it is thought that a part of the problem is that dopamine is oxidized in the cytoplasm, so getting more dopamine into vesicles prevents this oxidation from taking place. The idea is actually almost the exact opposite of Reserpine, which causes an assload of problems, because neurotransmitters need to be packaged in order to be released. Reserpine follows the same line of thinking as the other forms of treatment--to inhibit.

A major advantage of this system over targeting reuptake, is to target specific modalities of release (synaptic vesicles vs. large dense core vesicles). Another advantage, is that rather than inhibiting like MAOIs SSRIs etc. you are optimizing efficiency. If someone is deficient in serotonin, it doesn't make sense to me to inhibit the patients body further, but rather to enhance.
You'll have to explain the mechanisms underlying the modification of VMAT physiology more clearly for the antidepressant effect that you think are so advantageous. I don't see enough info from you on the various affected transmitters and their modulation mechanisms (specifically for the antidepressant application). And also, what do you think about the side-effects, bearing in mind that the previous, OK inhibitory, VMAT modulators had catastrophic side-effects and issues, as Ernest Hemingway's curtailed genius demonstrates. (Hint: an historical perspective could be worth investigating for any so-called 'new' drug or drug category).

What are the physiological bases for clinical depression, in your opinion?
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Flex
post Feb 20, 2010, 03:02 PM
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I don't think anyone knows the physiological bases for clinical depression--I certainly don't. I just happen to know this is a project that is being worked on because Kantz is a professor of mine. As far as side effects, that has to be explored. This is a new novel approach. The side effects will be nothing like Reserpine, because that type of drug functions in a completely different direction. Of course blocking neurotransmitters from entering vesicles is going to cause serious problems; this means they can never be released. Increasing the efficiency of VMAT means that you can get more neurotransmitter release (proven in fruit flies) when the body wants to release it, as opposed to reuptake in which you keep the transmitter in the synapse longer than it normally would be, which could potentially impact timing of transmission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1850781...m&ordinalpos=13

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2005398...um&ordinalpos=2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1076903...ogdbfrom=pubmed
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Hey Hey
post Feb 20, 2010, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE(Flex @ Feb 20, 2010, 11:02 PM) *

I don't think anyone knows the physiological bases for clinical depression--I certainly don't. I just happen to know this is a project that is being worked on because Kantz is a professor of mine. As far as side effects, that has to be explored. This is a new novel approach. The side effects will be nothing like Reserpine, because that type of drug functions in a completely different direction. Of course blocking neurotransmitters from entering vesicles is going to cause serious problems; this means they can never be released. Increasing the efficiency of VMAT means that you can get more neurotransmitter release (proven in fruit flies) when the body wants to release it, as opposed to reuptake in which you keep the transmitter in the synapse longer than it normally would be, which could potentially impact timing of transmission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1850781...m&ordinalpos=13

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2005398...um&ordinalpos=2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1076903...ogdbfrom=pubmed
This is a really interesting discussion friend, but I can't respond any further tonight. I just thought I'd let you know in case you thought you'd convinced me! wink.gif
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Anne`s fine
post Nov 26, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Suzhou vosun chemical Co.,Ltd specialises in products to improve memory, mental performance, attention span, and brain function. We are supplying new products to improve mental performance and slow brain aging.PS:it doesn`t belong to pharmaceutical company.
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oceanwild
post Jul 09, 2015, 11:51 PM
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Has anyone take the 5htp to againest depressants? I take it when I am hardly go to sleep. anyways good for that lady.
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handshaker
post Jan 07, 2016, 05:13 AM
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QUOTE(Tone @ Nov 07, 2009, 06:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Phi @ Oct 25, 2009, 09:07 AM) *

too bad that most people wont follow the regimen the way it's directed.

realistically, the reason why drug companies profit so much is because there is no follow-through...either on the side of the patient or the provider.

not everyone who needs help has access to reliable treatment because of financial status or health coverage or ignorance.

it's just my opinion that a majority of people seeking help through antidepressants won't get the correct treatment, and there are plenty of ways to function efficiently without that route.

if one cares to know, I believe the goal of the regimen is to initiate personal choice....and I'd be willing to prove it if anyone disagrees



you are totally wrong, "antidepressants" have never helped any true-depressive no matter what way they are used, after no matter how many years, after no matter what combinations. I got out of bed at 7:00 PM today. I had 11 doctors over 14 years. Following "regimens" does not work at all and never has. I have never once gotten any relief from any "antidepressant", save for dozens of stablon tablets having a MINIMAL effect that allows me to leave my home for a bit but still not do much in pain and suffering. No one else like me has ever gotten any help from any medical establishment but there is a black-out on this and people with Pseudo-depression are covered instead, because going from 'feeling fine and cocky', to feeling 'fine and cocky' (no change) can be lied about as "the drugs worked".



So are you saying that after many combinations and meds, you have found that stablon (tianeptine) was the best med for you?

I am toying with trying either Stablon, or maybe Modafinil, as both can have a slight stimulant effect which i think may help by fatigue....

Thanks in advance
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WesCody
post Feb 02, 2016, 07:48 AM
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Anti-depressants are a slippery slope. I was taking xanax for only about several days and while i thought i felt great for those several days, I ran out and anxiety came back ten-fold. I had a couple of days where I wouldn't even want to leave my apartment I was so edgy. I am fine now, but jeeze, I couldn't imagine being on them for months or even years on end, then coming off of them. I will definitely stay away and only take it on very very rare occasions.
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BaldyBadBrains
post May 02, 2016, 06:09 AM
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Im on 60mg of Paxil and 72mg of concerta. I have had back issues for 3 years and had surgery in Nov. I am struggling to get off the painkillers and wondering if anybody had any feedback on whether the opiate damage could be assisted with 5htp or sam-e because of lowered levels while already on those meds? I have an appt with my Dr. tomorrow and looking for some information and education before we start discussing. Dr. is anti supplements and Im beginning to get leary of all meds.
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ntuc
post May 05, 2016, 11:21 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Oct 23, 2009, 08:02 PM) *

It's good to know that she can quit and be happy. I would have assumed, knowing the pharmaceutical companies, that there would be hell to pay.



Yup, and here's another example, Botox Injections forever?


http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1876371#i
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Elaine Eleanor
post May 16, 2016, 05:36 AM
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Try Panadol
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Botell0
post Jun 19, 2016, 01:56 AM
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Unfortunately, there are people who are put on anti depressants and they need to take them forever. It depends on how well you respond on them
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ntuc
post Jun 22, 2016, 02:31 AM
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QUOTE(Botell0 @ Jun 19, 2016, 01:56 AM) *

Unfortunately, there are people who are put on anti depressants and they need to take them forever. It depends on how well you respond on them



Well, objectively based on basic & general medical knowledge, their side effects are simply not as fatally harmful and overwhelmingly scary and dire than these dopamine antagonist mind-altering drugs for the intended users.


http://www.psychvisit.com/conditions/schiz...E.html#dystonia

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19710&st=30 (Botox Injections For Blepharospasm - Please refer to post 48 - Summary

http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2063112#i

http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2064819#i
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GeorgeLoo
post Sep 29, 2017, 01:50 AM
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getting on antidepressants is dangerous. I think it's already going down with mental disorders
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ntuc
post Oct 04, 2017, 05:33 AM
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QUOTE(GeorgeLoo @ Sep 29, 2017, 01:50 AM) *

getting on antidepressants is dangerous. I think it's already going down with mental disorders



Well, about your post above especially when you mention the word "dangerous", please consider the following excerpts which may be related & relevant:


Extrapyramidal Symptoms - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrapyramidal_symptoms /


Neuroleptic malignant syndrome - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroleptic_malignant_syndrome


Extrapyramidal symptoms are forms of abnormal body movements that are caused by a blockade of normal dopamine functions in the brain. They occur most commonly as side-effects of certain medications that block dopamine functioning, such as the Typical Antipsychotics, less commonly the Atypical Antipsychotics, and very rarely by antidepressants [ref]. Extrapyramidal symptoms are often found in people with Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder who use these medications [ref]. However, these symptoms can also occur in people with Schizophrenia who have never taken any of these medications [ref].

The four main types of extrapyramidal symptoms are Parkinsonian Symptoms, Dystonia, Akathisia, and Tardive Dyskinesia. See here for strategies on how to manage these symptoms......




as quoted from:

http://www.psychvisit.com/conditions/schiz...E.html#dystonia


Additional information:


http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50303 - Sometimes cures may just turn out to be worse than diseases themselves


http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19710&st=30 (Botox Injections For Blepharospasm - Please refer to post 48 - Summary


http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2063112#i - Fees-seeking Psychiatrist & Their Fees-paying Patients Everyone Has All the Undisputed Rights & Responsibilities On Any Grounds to Safeguard the Best Possible Interests of Their Personal Heath Cares & Well-beings


http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2386541#i - Follow-up : Fees-seeking Psychiatrist & Their Fees-paying Patients General & brief idea about psychotherapy


http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2064819#i - Duly Licensed & Certified Professional Psychiatrists & Their Compulsory Medical Professionalism of Modern-day 21St Century
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