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> why are there two nootropic forums wihtin "explanding conciousness"?
nate
post Sep 17, 2009, 09:56 PM
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ummm...
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Hey Hey
post Sep 18, 2009, 07:18 PM
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You must have an echo. I don't see two forums with the title. There are, of course, sub-forums that have a similar title to the umbrella main-forum. That seems quite a logical way to organize things.
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nate
post Sep 18, 2009, 07:40 PM
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right, a nootropic forum and a nootropic subforum in another forum. isn't that kinda dumb?
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Hey Hey
post Sep 19, 2009, 02:11 PM
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This (present) forum is:

BrainMeta.com Forum > Enhancing Consciousness and Cognition > Expanding Consciousness > Nootropics

The other that I think you refer to is:

BrainMeta.com Forum > Enhancing Consciousness and Cognition > Cognitive Enhancers (Nootropics, Smart Drugs)

Expanding consciousness and cognitive enhancement are not necessarily the same thing. So there is justification for separate discussion environments. But if you feel especially strongly against this organization, then feel free to PM or email Shawn who will decide as to whether there should be a change, such as amalgamation. Personally I don't think there should be change. If, for example, I wish to read about ideas pertaining to the use of drugs to assist the merging of human minds into a collective consciousness, I will use one forum. But if, for example, I wish to find information on drugs to enhance intellectual abilities or memory, I will explore the other forum.

Note, a newbie with 11 posts (2 of which are in this topic) calling 'dumb' the organization of such a well-established Board that is populated by many highly qualified and intellectually competent members, won't get you very far. If the organization is not to your liking, then feel free to take my recommendation above, or get some contributions under your belt and see how BM works before jumping in head first.
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Rick
post Sep 21, 2009, 11:30 AM
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While we're on this topic, I read today in Scientific American magazine that Switzerland has now licensed LSD research. Gram for gram, it's the most effective consciousness expanding substance, so it's about time they resumed research on it after a 40-year hiatus. It's fitting too, because Switzerland is where it was discovered by Albert Hoffmann.
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Hey Hey
post Sep 21, 2009, 11:45 AM
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I don't think we've discussed LSD as a nootropic previously, that I remember. Does it fit the bill?
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Rick
post Sep 21, 2009, 02:16 PM
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Definitely. If some consciousness is good, more is better. Right?
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post Sep 21, 2009, 02:22 PM
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Uhmm ... consciousness or dream or inbetween?
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Rick
post Sep 21, 2009, 02:48 PM
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Hmm. The literature says "mind manifesting." Some proponents have said psychedelics "expand consciousness." If some is good, then more is better, right? Some say it's like waking up for the first time in one's life.
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Hey Hey
post Sep 23, 2009, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Sep 21, 2009, 11:48 PM) *
"expand consciousness."
Does this mean adding to and/or improving consciousness? What can you do with it; splash more paint ... merge more words ... fall faster? I prefer these ideas to expand consciousness: http://www.hplusmagazine.com/articles/neur...pload-our-minds
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Rick
post Sep 23, 2009, 02:03 PM
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Some of everything. More awake. More intense experience. More creativity. In one study in the '60s with a dozen or so neurotics, the average measured IQ increase from a single session with LSD was 10 points.
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Rick
post Sep 23, 2009, 02:06 PM
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One group of therapists used the low dose "psycholytic" approach because of the reduced resistance to access to the unconscious. Others used the overwhelming dose "psychedelic" approach. Both groups of therapists reported promising results. Unfortunately, there was very little research outside of clinical settings. Leary's famous "Good Friday" experiment is one exception.
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Hey Hey
post Sep 23, 2009, 02:08 PM
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but these are episodic "expansions" of consciousness. how could this be used effectively in the real world. (unless the IQ increases were permanent - were they?)
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Rick
post Sep 23, 2009, 03:58 PM
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Yes. IQ was measured days later.
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Trip like I do
post Sep 23, 2009, 05:36 PM
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.... one has to be mentally tough for positive affects of lsd to transpire!
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Phi
post Sep 23, 2009, 08:45 PM
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unlocking the realization of subjective potential...thats whats been passively taught.
The real world motivation of acid depends on experience, so i agree that the application depends on a strong mind...although, acid isnt the only answer.
A hallucinogenic experience can be related to trauma or absolute bliss (most likely a combination); but when faced with a relative of death or eternity, one has to take time to self-define in order to prosper. Who can sit back when the subjective experience means that they will fail in their own mind?
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Rick
post Sep 24, 2009, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Sep 23, 2009, 06:36 PM) *

.... one has to be mentally tough for positive affects of lsd to transpire!

Hoffmann may have been right: it's definitely not for everyone!
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Phi
post Sep 24, 2009, 11:50 PM
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what proof is there that its not for everybody?
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Rick
post Sep 25, 2009, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Sep 25, 2009, 12:50 AM) *

what proof is there that its not for everybody?

This is the basis of contention between the two schools of thought. Hoffmann, the discoverer of LSD was of the "elitist" (my term) school in which the experience was reserved for the well-informed and prepared cognoscenti. Leary represented the egalitarian school, in which LSD experiences were to be distributed as widely as possible with the aim of revolutionizing world culture. Hoffman personally cancelled Leary's million dose order to Sandoz Laboratories, touching off a feud that was never resolved.

Timothy Leary once said that he would rather give LSD to a 14-year-old who didn't know what he was doing than to a 40-year-old who didn't know what he was doing because the 14-year-old would use it to have fun while the 40-year-old would use it for less wisely.

To prove that it's not for everyone, I only need to find one person that it should not be for. How about Charles Manson?
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Phi
post Sep 27, 2009, 08:06 AM
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i exclude forms of retardation

wink.gif
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Rick
post Sep 28, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Yeah, if only. And all his women too. And the guy who jumped out the window after the CIA dosed him without his knowledge.
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Phi
post Sep 28, 2009, 06:38 PM
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lol, what was legit about the cia being involved?
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Rick
post Sep 29, 2009, 08:34 AM
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The CIA is people too, you know. They used it as a party drug for a while. They also thought they could make people talk with it. They experimented for a while then gave up on it.
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