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> A Perspective Few Will Embrace
Sunny
post Jul 17, 2009, 06:07 PM
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I'm going to be honest...

I don't see the point in bothering to try change the world, or even develop oneself, anymore. Before you think me a depressed individual with no hope, hear me out:

Fighting the system -- or its subsystems; a specific religion, political movement, a gang of terorrists, an economic disaster, environmental destruction and so forth -- I find that's like beating a dead horse, honestly. If I attack "them", why not attack every problem in the world? What a fruitless task that would be. And imagine I had a following with hundreds of thousands of attendees who all heartily agreed in the foolishness of the other folks who believe in "those things" (whatever I would be opposing)... I would just be supporting a "religion" of my own as I see it...another faction for some other group(s) to be opposed to as well.

I think what's going on in this world is that we are driven to pit ourselves into various arenas against others to try to opt for supremacy. But in doing that we really sell ourselves out. We do that by giving the world significance with our actions. As I am seeing, the more I delve into occult and the "secrets" of the Illuminati, its relation to prophecy and ancient cultures/writings, I just notice -- wow, this is like a bad novel.

My only belief, really, is that this human reality is entirely a fantasy. The only part of it that isn't a fantasy is that some of us, which are in it as we are inhabiting human bodies, are hoaxed at the most fundamental level - beyond every other belief we have been given since the day we were born. I don't care about Anti Christ, New World Order, faces carved into Mars (a man with a lion-like face, and now a woman's face too -- very, very clearly etched into the rock, no doubt about it now)... None of it. It's all true from what I can see. And from my perspective, it's all part of a very stupid video game.

Everything is put before you at once to catch your eye, to make you want to be a part of something "fantastic". And you are driven to want this by first being put into a life which is altogether plain, boring, without much in the way of substance - a life where you are made to feel insignificant in the greater scheme of things, if you relate to the world at all. Even being born into a baby's body, and growing up as a child, seems to be a way to initiate you into a form of insignificance (please read on). As a child at first you don't really give much thought to the world, and that's perhaps why things feel so "golden", because you're still, at the deepest level, unattached to this place and unaware of it, even though you can't remember yourself. I don't believe for a second we spring from nothing more than the meeting of a sperm and an egg.

And so you either coalesece into a life of little pleasures, the "finer things" as some call it, or a middle-class lifestyle that gives you a mimic of those things - doesn't matter which: A cozy, comfy existence where you can sit back, let go for a little while, in-between the daily grind, or if you're lucky, you can be part of the "investing class". You can build up amasses of money -- do good things, do bad things, whatever suits your fancy -- and that's just it, it's to suit ideas which have been implanted in you from the day you were born, as well. And that too is a game that tries to absorb you.

If that fails, well then there's the greater scheme of the world. I have found myself in that particular game - a game of seeking out rampant fascinations, hidden things, secrets. I never had much when I grew up, and when I finally found myself -- for a time -- in a position where I had access to much of the 'nicer' things too, I found no value in them. Money, 'nice things' and people themselves are not what we seek, not really -- it's the feelings they provide us, feelings which are often created by us from learning what things 'should feel like' when we receive them. What we are actually searching for is an experience of being... But what nobody realizes is that experience of being we seek for is actually a return to ourselves. This reality is constantly trying to bait you with good feelings because the whole reality is setup otherwise to make you feel terrible -- insignificant, or depressed, or sad, always like there's some problem or something wrong that 'someone must deal with'.

So in desiring to be part of the greater scheme of the world and know more -- you find kooky information beyond the norm, but mimics the norm in that it's another set of rules, another set of info, that once you acquire seems just as mundane -- not extraordinary and special like it might have once first seemed. And still the world pulls on you, trying to get you to be ever-busy, take sides, participate, do this, do that... Live, live... Is any of this really living? I don't think so. What we really want to be is ourselves. What we really want to do is express UNIQUELY...something a human truly cannot do; because the constraints of our prison system reality, which we all inhabit together, are far too strict. We can only dabble in things which are made to seem as expression...music, writing, art, and so on... But in truth it's the same thing over and over. As someone once said to me in a discussion about Chaos & Order, or Harmony & Creativity as you might put it, nothing new truly arises for us here -- it's always an extension of what already was.

I shake my head at all of this. Everything seems to want you to desire, to fear loss when you acquire some of those desires, to feel miserable when you acquire none -- to draw you in more and more, until you can't even fathom that you, You the God, the Special Being, the One Who Matters Most To You, could possibly have been fooled so tremendously. But I differ in this respect, at least now in this hour and ever onward: I have no problem admitting my errors in past. This does not make me superior to anyone --- lucky in a sense perhaps, but not overly so, perhaps not at all given that it's alienated me from any source of happiness in this world --- it makes me to be one of the ones who's in a quickest rush to leave.

I don't feel as though I am insane, nor errant, in this line of thinking, but I do not exclude the possibility either -- the fact is such a thing doesn't matter. If this is all there is, then I am a meaningless blip on the fabric of space and time. But I do not believe that. I will not submit to this reality. Be it today, tomorrow, maybe 10 years, 20 years from now...I will Die... but only in the flesh, which is not really me. Nothing could be me except that which I willed to be. There is the key to truth: We are what we will to be. If you believe in this world, that you are really part of it...well, then you are, by your own admission. Notice that the world is always trying to convince you either directly - or primarily, indirectly - of exactly that, that you are of it, you are responsible for it, not only that but you should feel guilty for its affairs. I say this is nonsense.

May the world burn to ashes for all I care, and I along with it, for then I will be as free as we all once were... Free to Live and Die as we choose, part of the greater mystery of Life, not this pale shadowy farce of a play that mimics it. Life is much greater than all of this we blind ones 'see' before us.
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Joesus
post Jul 17, 2009, 08:48 PM
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Are you going to remain blind and not care, or see and find a purpose to all of this in your own life?
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lucid_dream
post Jul 17, 2009, 11:25 PM
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interesting thoughts... but what's wrong with engaging a participatory reality and in creating your own meaning, or in contemplating the objective mysteries of reality?

If you believe that human reality is pure fantasy (which I would agree with, depending on how you define 'human reality'), then what's stopping you from getting beyond that, as opposed to taking a step backwards, which appears to be what you're doing?

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Phi
post Jul 18, 2009, 05:31 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 17, 2009, 09:48 PM) *

Are you going to remain blind and not care, or see and find a purpose to all of this in your own life?


I agree. It's like the welcome to In-sanity. Ok, so you're not going to convince the world that you're correct; but really, it only matters that you do what you personally love and apply that to every aspect that you deem objectively important
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Rick
post Jul 18, 2009, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE(Sunny @ Jul 17, 2009, 07:07 PM) *
... I think what's going on in this world is that we are driven to pit ourselves into various arenas against others to try to opt for supremacy. But in doing that we really sell ourselves out. We do that by giving the world significance with our actions. ...

Don't overthink it. Slow down and enjoy life. Maybe be more like a tubeworm?
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Joesus
post Jul 18, 2009, 08:08 PM
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Tubeworm?
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Rick
post Jul 19, 2009, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 18, 2009, 09:08 PM) *

Tubeworm?

An ocean creature that sifts the water for nutrients. It's mouth organs look much like flowers when fully deployed. Like the lillys of the field, niether do the spin nor toil, yet they are lovely.
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Joesus
post Jul 19, 2009, 07:38 PM
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I'm imagining Tubeworm Consciousness, and the type of enjoyment in life it perceives... huh.gif I don't think it thinks much about anything or even what enjoyment or life is.
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Rick
post Jul 20, 2009, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 19, 2009, 08:38 PM) *

I'm imagining Tubeworm Consciousness, and the type of enjoyment in life it perceives... huh.gif I don't think it thinks much about anything or even what enjoyment or life is.

When the environment is good, I bet it's like munching on a cookie. Yum yum. When the water's polluted, I bet it feels like being sick.
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Joesus
post Jul 20, 2009, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 20, 2009, 03:50 PM) *

When the environment is good, I bet it's like munching on a cookie. Yum yum. When the water's polluted, I bet it feels like being sick.

No doubt it might be affected pyisically by its surroundings but I doubt it has any emotional cognitive ability to think "I'm sick" or "I'm happy" or "this tastes good with clean water" and "this tastes like crap in crappy water". I would imagine happiness or contentment to a tubeworm are foreign concepts to its consciousness.

I would imagine it would be closer to a human having taken antidepressants and feeling numb with no sexual drive intact. Reproducing mechanically without any enjoyment in the process.
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Rick
post Jul 20, 2009, 10:10 AM
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I think all animals know the joy of being alive. If I munch on a cookie, and I limit my consciousness to just those enjoyable parts of crunching and tasting, it's just like being a baby again. Babies like it, and so do, I suspect, tubeworms. Try giving a cookie to a baby sometime. He'll thank you if he could. Or treats to a dog or cat. People underestimate animals and children.
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Joesus
post Jul 20, 2009, 07:02 PM
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Babies and pets I get... Tubeworms I can't imagine having much conscious cognitive ability. I understand the idea of a plant being happy when you talk to it and feed it but I don't think it recognizes the difference in being sad or happy and then thinking it prefers one over the other, and so I kinda think a tubeworm has about as much awareness as a plant.
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catseye
post Jul 20, 2009, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 20, 2009, 08:02 PM) *

Babies and pets I get... Tubeworms I can't imagine having much conscious cognitive ability. I understand the idea of a plant being happy when you talk to it and feed it but I don't think it recognizes the difference in being sad or happy and then thinking it prefers one over the other, and so I kinda think a tubeworm has about as much awareness as a plant.


why not? it just would be "tubeworm happy" in it's "tubeworm consciousness". all things have their own way. to anthropomorphizing and say they have "human consciousness understanding happy" is off base. but it is fair to say all living things know what is good for them and bad. It's human arrogance that stipulates mood by intelligence -as understood by human achievement.
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Joesus
post Jul 20, 2009, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE(catseye @ Jul 21, 2009, 03:18 AM) *

It's human arrogance that stipulates mood by intelligence -as understood by human achievement.

Wouldn't that mean then, that to make a reference toward being happy as a tubeworm would be a projection as understood according to human achievement?
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Rick
post Jul 21, 2009, 08:47 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 20, 2009, 08:02 PM) *
... and so I kinda think a tubeworm has about as much awareness as a plant.

Very few plants move when you touch them, but any sea animal will react to touch, so I think that they are conscious. Have you ever put a living earthworm on a fishing hook? It's very clear to me that they don't like it and will struggle mightily to avoid it. You have to pierce the worm's body several places to get it to stay on the hook. I don't like doing it. I have too much sympathy for the worm.
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Phi
post Jul 21, 2009, 12:52 PM
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what about venus fly traps?
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Sunny
post Jul 21, 2009, 01:01 PM
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Hmm, tubeworm. Gotcha. I like it actually. Will give it a shot. Can always die later.
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Rick
post Jul 21, 2009, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Jul 21, 2009, 01:52 PM) *

what about venus fly traps?

Another one is mimosa pudica (sensitive plant). There's some evidence it's also telepathic.
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Joesus
post Jul 21, 2009, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 21, 2009, 04:47 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 20, 2009, 08:02 PM) *
... and so I kinda think a tubeworm has about as much awareness as a plant.

Very few plants move when you touch them, but any sea animal will react to touch, so I think that they are conscious. Have you ever put a living earthworm on a fishing hook? It's very clear to me that they don't like it and will struggle mightily to avoid it. You have to pierce the worm's body several places to get it to stay on the hook. I don't like doing it. I have too much sympathy for the worm.

I don't think muscular action defines consciousness.
I've shared this story a nurse friend of mine told me about an organ donor before.
This particular donor was a brain dead motorcyclist who had massive head injuries. The body was being kept alive artificially with machines while they prepped him for harvest. They had the same equipment they use to monitor respiration and heartbeat as they do when they operate on the living, to observe the body while they harvest the organs only in this case there was no anaesthesia. When they cut into the body the skin began to sweat and the heart beat and respiration went up. The man was brain dead and there was no neural activity according to the person telling the story, so there was no consciousness as was determined by the medical team. The body was reacting without the influence of brain activity.
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Rick
post Jul 22, 2009, 10:32 AM
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I still think that frogs and worms feel pain.
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Joesus
post Jul 22, 2009, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 22, 2009, 06:32 PM) *

I still think that frogs and worms feel pain.

Well according to the story of the organ harvest a man or woman who is without consciousness can feel pain...as long as the body is still alive.
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post Jul 22, 2009, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 21, 2009, 08:47 AM) *

I don't like doing it. I have too much sympathy for the worm.

Im glad I'm not the only one who hates doing that! They struggle to the death. I wonder how much they hurt. There's got to be a better way!
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post Jul 22, 2009, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 22, 2009, 10:32 AM) *

I still think that frogs and worms feel pain.

I didn't know there were any frogs left in the world!
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Joesus
post Jul 22, 2009, 08:44 PM
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Some call the French, Frogs.
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2009, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 22, 2009, 09:44 PM) *

Some call the French, Frogs.

Unworthy attitudes abound in the world.
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