Soul and its composition; and difference between atman and God, The word soul (Jeevaatman) is composed of two components 1) Atman and 2) Jeeva. Options

[dattaswami]

God is the absolute reality and creation is relatively real
God can never be imagined as long as space, energy and matter (Creation) exist


Shankara established the fundamental concept in the spiritual knowledge according to which God is the absolute reality and the creation is relatively real. If you analyze the present science deeply, this can be well appreciated. Science says that matter is a form of energy. Matter and energy are the simultaneous concept and both are inter-convertible. Einstein says that matter and space are similar simultaneous concepts. He says that there is no absolute space without referring the matter since geometrical space only exists. The bending of space around boundary of matter indicates that space is not nothing but has physical status. Thus, energy and matter are similar to matter and space in the simultaneous existence. Therefore, space and energy must have similar relationship. The generation of galaxies from space indicates the inter conversion of space into energy and matter. All this concludes that space, energy and matter are mutually existing and are simultaneous inter-convertible concepts like the sides of a coin. The forms that are converting between themselves must be relatively real. The absolute basic form must be always one without any conversion. This can be clear by an example.

You have seen a rope in mild darkness. The existence of rope is clear to you but not the form of the rope. The superimposed forms like snake, stick and garland appear but their existence is the same existence of rope. Therefore, the three superimpositions appear as if they really exist. These superimpositions will be converting in to each other because you will be seeing the snake for some time, the stick for some time and garland for some time. Once the light is put on, the absolute reality, the rope, appears. This rope will never be converted into any of these relative forms (snake, stick and garland). Therefore, the right conclusion is that the absolute reality is never converted into another form and the inter-convertible forms are always relatively real. Based on this example, space, energy and matter are relatively real, which are inter-convertible between themselves. Absolute reality is God and cannot be converted into any other form with reference to the realisation of rope. The rope is never seen as long as the relative forms exist. Therefore, God can never be imagined as long as space, energy and matter (Creation) exist. Therefore, God is unimaginable.

You are a part and parcel of creation and you will disappear along with the disappearance of creation. Therefore, for you creation can never be unreal. It is unreal only for the God. But Shankara gave a twist here to purify minds of atheists. He said that the world is unreal. They atheists took that the world is unreal for them. Shankara kept silent because such misunderstanding is going to do good for the atheists. Due to unreality of the world, one will reduce the influence of family bonds, which are supposed to be unreal. This will minimise selfishness and mind is purified, which is required for the devotion to God. Thus, Shankara converted atheists in to theists by saying that they are God. Then they purified their minds by taking the world as unreal for them. The theist with pure mind is eligible to become a good devotee. Then He introduced the Lord for worship with devotion in order to become God practically. Who can handle this situation, with such efficiency except the human incarnation of God?

[dattaswami]

Soul and its composition; and difference between atman and God


The word soul (Jeevaatman) is composed of two components 1) Atman and 2) Jeeva. The component Atman is basic inert energy that is generated in the body by the oxidation of food with the help of digestive system (Annamaya kosha) and respiratory system (Pranamaya kosha). The component Jeeva consists of a complex mechanism of receiving information from the external world, storing it, thinking it in several ways, determining the correct path by logic and finally enjoying happiness. Of course, if the path is wrong by bad logic, grief is enjoyed and all this also is part of Jeeva only. Receiving the information and thinking it in several ways is Manomaya kosha. Determination of correct conclusion for practice and its implementation is Vijnanamaya kosha and enjoying the happiness is Anandamaya kosha.

The Annamaya kosha carries on the digestion of food by pulverising it with enzymes. The supply of oxygen for oxidation of food by respiratory system is Pranamaya kosha. The food is oxidised by oxygen for the liberation of inert energy. This inert energy represents Atman and therefore Atman is indicated by the first two koshas. The other three koshas represent Jeeva. The word Atman is indicated by the word Paraprakruti, which is said to be the maintainer of this creation (Yayedam dharyate...Gita). The maintainer is the creator and destroyer also. Therefore, the inert energy called as cosmic energy creates, maintains and destroys this world. This cosmic energy is called as Brahman, which means the greatest entity. It pervades all over the creation and is inert as said in Gita (Nityah sarvagatah sthanuh.....). Atman is a drop of this cosmic energy embedded by a body. Atman and cosmic energy are qualitatively same and differ only quantitatively. Atman is the original unmodified basic crude inert energy. This Atman is modified into Jeeva and thus Jeeva is a modified form of Atman only (Jeevabhutaam---Gita).

Jeeva represents work and work is a form of inert energy only. Matter and space are also modifications of inert energy only. Therefore, the body surrounding the Atman is also essentially inert energy only. Thus, in essence, all the creation is just modification of infinite inert energy only. Atman is the unmodified basic inert energy, where as the body is modified form of inert energy. The words like Sthanuh and Achalah denote that it is inert in nature. Atman existing in the body and Brahman existing in cosmos are one and the same in quality and thus Atman is Brahman. If the body is destroyed and if Jeeva is also destroyed, the Atman merges with Brahman like the space in the pot merging with the cosmic space after the destruction of pot. This is the salvation in Advaita. If Jeeva is not destroyed, Atman is in the form of Jeeva, which goes to the upper worlds and returns back after some time. Jeeva is the block of ice. If the ice disappears, the block of ice becomes water and merges with the ocean.
Shankara says that Atman is neither kartha nor Bhokta, which means that neither Atman does good and bad deeds nor enjoys good and bad fruits. This is possible only when Atman is inert. The quantitative difference between Atman and Brahman (cosmic energy) is also explained by Shankara with reference to the difference in the media i.e., body and cosmos (Upadhi bheda). Therefore, Shankara never touched God, who is beyond matter, inert energy and space. The process of receiving the information from external objects is purely physics. The process of thinking is nothing but transmission of electrical pulses between neuron cells, which involves chemical reactions and electricity based on biological sciences. These electrical pulses transmitted between crorers of neuron cells can even lit an electrical bulb!

The logical analysis and determination of right conclusion are involved in these electrical transmissions. The enjoyment of happiness is due to chemical changes involving liberation of certain hormones. Therefore, the entire Jeeva is a complex of systematic, scientific biological process only. Since matter is form of inert energy, the whole process and material of the body is just modification of Atman only. Therefore, all the philosophy of Shankara is circulated in the creation only, when He advised that Atman is Brahman. Here the word Brahman means the basic inert cosmic energy only and not the unimaginable God, who is beyond the cosmic energy. He did not go beyond the creation, while preaching Purvamemamsakas and Buddhists, who were atheists.

They were converted in to theists by showing the highest attraction that Atman is Brahman. The word Brahman stands for both the God and the cosmic energy. This dual chance was exploited by Shankara to convert atheists into theists. The atheists thought that Brahman is God but Shankara meant Brahman as cosmic energy. Shankara meant that Atman is cosmic energy in quality but atheists took Atman as God. The silence of Shankara on this dual meaning of Brahman is to convert atheists into theists. Since, they agree that they exist, God existed by their own word itself. After knowing that Atman is God theoretically, the practical achievement was linked to worship of God through devotion. In this way Shankara converted the atheists in to devotees and His master plan is marvellous and is the biggest wonder in this creation. Unless He is incarnation of God, such an intellectual twist cannot be created. He twisted the concept to suit the psychology of atheists and converted them into devotees. If an atheist asks, He will say that Atman is Brahman or God. If a theist asks He will say that Atman is Brahman or cosmic energy.

[dattaswami]

Krishna is a Myth conveyed by tales and Puranas. Jesus is a historical personality. Why should we accept Krishna?


Ans.) Is there any direct photograph of Jesus? Is there any cassette that recorded the voice of Jesus directly? If you show the birth place and the place of crucifixion of Jesus, we will also show you the birth place, the dancing place etc of Krishna. If you say that twelve disciples have written the preachings of Jesus, the manuscripts of those twelve disciples can be doubted by us also as the manuscripts written by some others in their names. The history is always believed by faith on generation to generation. If you are based on the direct perception only without inference, no history can stand before us.


These remarks on other religions hurt others and lead to terrorism finally. Whether Krishna existed or Jesus existed, it is immaterial. You take their messages and see the unity in them. There is only one God in different forms. If you want direct perception, recognize the contemporary human incarnation existing in your generation by conquering the ego and jealousy. If you cannot do that, at least find unity in the religions and follow the universal spirituality. I appreciate even the conservatism, if you stick to your path only without criticizing other religions. It is the worst projection of conservatism to criticize other religions, which is the starting point for cracking the world peace.
www.universal-spirituality.org

[dattaswami]

Punishment shows infinite love of God on us.

Punishment given for a sin is only to change the mind of the soul and purify it. There is no trace of revenge in this. The hell is an indication of the intensive love of God to the souls through which God wants to reform the souls. The hell indicates the hectic effort of God put on the soul to reform it and not to leave the soul for its fate. A father may leave his son since he is not changing inspite of all his efforts. But in the hell God puts serious effort and succeeds to change the soul. Therefore, even thousands of fathers cannot be equal to God. God is not leaving the soul without changing it and this point is indicated by the punishment and hell. Therefore, there is no point of excusing the Prarabhdas if this true basis is understood. God will try to change the soul through preaching as far as possible. Punishment in the hell is the last resort. Once the soul is reformed all the sins are smashed since there is neither the necessity of preaching nor the necessity of punishment.
www.universal-spirituality.org

[dattaswami]

Why God is making Himself Unimaginable?

You are talking this standing by the side of God. You stand by the side of human beings and understand the concept. The intelligence of a human being can never cross the spatial dimensions and therefore human logic can never understand God who is beyond space being the creator of space. You cannot blame God for the limitation of the soul. An average student who gets third class questions the university for keeping 60% as first class. Therefore it is the limitation of the human being and not the sadistic mentality of God. For a third class student, the university appears to be a sadist only.

[Tone]

this is the brain-meta forum - its a mixture of people who believe in a soul and believe that there is no soul only the central nervous system - it would be interesting to ask who is who

[dattaswami]

this is the brain-meta forum - its a mixture of people who believe in a soul and believe that there is no soul only the central nervous system - it would be interesting to ask who is who

The real meaning of Advaita
Soul is not God and God is not soul

The Advaita means the unity of two items. It does not mean that the item is one only. It means that God and soul or united in the human incarnation and that both are inseparable and hence cannot be taken as two. This does not mean that God is soul or soul is God.

The current in the wire is inseparable from the wire. Both are united and can be treated as one but both are not actually one. Current is stream of electrons and wire is chain of metallic crystals. Both are different. When the current leaves the wire or when the current does not enter the wire, the difference is clearly understood. The unimaginable God becomes imaginable and perceivable through the human form since both are united and inseparable as long as the human form exists. Before the entry of God, the human soul exists and the same soul exists after the exit of God also.

God is one item before the entry and after the exit. Similarly, the soul is one item before the entry and after the exit of God. The soul can be treated as God during the stay of God in it.

Advaita means that both can be treated as one and not actually one. All this discussion is confined to the Human Incarnation only and should not be extended to every human soul. There is no need of discussion in the single God or in the single soul. Even the human soul present in the human incarnation is not subjected to this discussion before the entry and after the exit of God.


When Shankara took wine, every disciple took the wine claiming himself as God, since Shankara told that He is God (Shivoham). They thought that drinking wine is the common characteristic to God and themselves. Next day, Shankara swallowed molten lead, which could not be swallowed by them. Then, Shankara declared that He alone is God (Shivah Kevaloham). However, this does not mean that a demon also, who can perform this miracle is God. This miracle differentiates 90 percent of humanity from God. The demon, who can perform this miracle cannot preach the excellent spiritual knowledge like Shankara and hence can be eliminated. Therefore, majority can be eliminated by the miracle and minority can be eliminated by the spiritual knowledge. The spiritual knowledge is the final identity and is most important because you are going to achieve the divine fruit only through the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge as said in the beginning.

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

[dattaswami]

Why God has to come in human form?

If the spiritual knowledge is perfect and complete, the devotion and practice are the spontaneous subsequent steps for which there is no need of any effort. If the practice is perfect and complete, the fruit is spontaneous. Therefore, all the efforts should be put only to gain the perfect and complete spiritual knowledge. Hence, Shankara told that knowledge alone can achieve fruit (Jnanadevatu…). The perfect and complete spiritual knowledge is possible only from God. But God is unimaginable and therefore to give this perfect and complete knowledge, the unimaginable God comes down in human form.

For this purpose, which is most important, God will never enter inert medium. The human form means the soul or awareness associated with the human body. Whenever God enters this world the soul is always an associated medium with Him. You should not say that the soul or awareness alone is the associated medium. If you say like that, the soul exists in birds and animals also and these birds and animals cannot give the spiritual knowledge to humanity. Therefore, the soul should mean the soul existing in human body only.


In Human incarnation God is insepearable from human soul

In Veda the soul is always referred as medium for God and this danger of extension to birds and animals comes up in Veda. To rectify this defect, Gita says that God is associated with human form (Manusheem tanum). Hence, Gita is the reformed essence of Veda. Due to constant association of God and soul, you can address the soul as God. This is possible due to “Lakshana”, which speaks that you can address X through Y if there is constant association between X and Y. You can call the bearer of apples by the word ‘apples’ since the bearer is constantly associated with the basket of apples. As far as the context is confined, the bearer and apples are inseparable. However, this does not mean that the bearer is always associated with apples or vice-versa. As long as you are confined to the context of the bearer carrying on the apples, this Lakshana is valid.

Similarly, as long as you are confined to the context of human incarnation of God, you can say that God is inseparable from the human soul and vice-versa. Hence, this does not mean that God does not exist without human form and this does not also mean that human form does not exist without God. In short, you can say that whenever God is recognized by you, He is always associated with the human soul or human form. But, reverse is not true. It means that you should not say that wherever human form is seen, God is associated with that human form.


Every soul existing in all living beings is not God

The king is always seen with red shirt. You can recognize the king through the red shirt. But this does not mean that every person wearing red shirt is the king. At this point, the Advaita Scholars mistook the concept and slipped by extending the concept to every human form. The wrong concept developed by them is further misunderstood by thinking that every human soul itself is God. It is further misunderstood to think that every soul existing in all living beings is God. The final misunderstood essence of the concept made God as the soul or awareness and hence God is imaginable. The soul or awareness is imaginable through deep analysis.

The awareness is a special work form of energy resulting in the special machine called nervous system. Matter is clearly perceivable and easily understood. Energy in visible form like light is also easily understood. Sound, magnetism, electricity, etc., are also understood through senses. The basic form of energy, which is the wave-nature or particle-nature in the form of quanta is also understood through analysis with the help of intricate equipments like electron microscopes. But the work form of energy is the most difficult form of energy to understand, which can be only inferred through analysis and never perceived by senses.


Awareness being imaginable is not God

Let us take the example of grinding work. You can see the current as waves through equipment. You can see the grinding machine with visual eyes. You can see the pulses before and after grinding. You can see the movement of grinding machine. But the actual grinding work is invisible and can be inferred only. Even if you call the movement of the machine as the work, the actual movement is not seen except the machine in different points of movement. However, the work is also understood since it is the knowledge of inference.

Therefore, work is also imaginable item of creation. Therefore, awareness being the work form of inert energy is also imaginable and cannot be the unimaginable God. The awareness is constantly associated with the unimaginable God, whenever He comes down in the human form. You should not take the reverse of the concept and finally claim that awareness itself is God.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace