What God is is a Title? Then who is God? Options

[P.j.S]

In such case i must apologize, sorry. I dont feel forced to continue participating neither but as an ex-jehova witness in pretty sensitive to any spark of proselitism as to any dominant ultimate and only truth faith as they proclame themselves and i cant help myself on detecting those sparks on your comments, although the main subject is another one, and i think is a good one to tell you the truth.
Anyway as a brainmeta member i will use my rigth to post every time i feel another point of view is needed. If on any of those posts im not respectful enough just tell me and will apologize in public, thats not a problem, and will edit my post if im asked to by administrators.

Just consider. How does your post contribute to "Who is God?" in this discussion? I would welcome any comments that you might have along those lines here on this forum if you want too concerning this topic and tangents.

[Jakare]

May i ask the same about posting the link to watchtower society webpage on your very first post? And thats without talking about the "red" "black" and "blue" frases on it...

Enquiring minds want to know just that, "Who is God?"!

A Personal Advisory with you in mind:
Psalm 83:18 using God's Holy Word found in the Bible

If this is the first Scripture or even the last Scripture that you have read in a Bible lately...
Does it name the Person of God as Jehovah?
Is this Person God really or is there some other LORD to be found finally named as God?

Study Aids and Reasonable Solutions to your Bible Questions provided below.
Many a Mother Tongue to choose from with a current translation of the Bible at the ready.

Newly featured articles about every week or so for your convenience.
Please feel free to click on the link for yourself, to help you further satisfy an appetite involving spiritual hunger & thirst that needs to be met with soon.

http://www.watchtower.org/ ANOUNCING JEHOVAH'S KINGDOM

I was just giving an explicit answer to an implicit subject.

[P.j.S]

May i ask the same about posting the link to watchtower society webpage on your first post?

It seems that you may have personal issues with the Watchtower people. What they have had to say is public worldwide. It does not bother me to have people go there to see what they have to say. Plus the version of the Bible they use is easily found there. There is no harm in others reading it and learning from it that I can see.
One time other bibles had Jehovah's name in it. Now I only know that theirs does.

When I ask "Who is God?" that is a bible that I can direct people to to find out. Personally I like the convenience of the link for people who like to learn for themselves. The link contributes to the topic very well.

[Jakare]

Probably everyone has its own opinion about if the link (and the suggestions above) do really make a contribution to the topic. Im not getting in to it any further.
Honestly i will be really pleased to talk about my personal issues with watchtower people and their personal issues against me but i already have disturbed your topic enough and i already made my point anyway.
Maybe in en future. The exchange can be interesting.

[PJS]

Inquiring minds want to know just that, "Who is God?"!
Like the use of the title God found in the text of Genesis 1:28-29 for example.

A Personal Advisory with you in mind:
Psalm 83:18 using God's Holy Word found in the Bible

If this is the first Scripture or even the last Scripture that you have read in a Bible lately...
Does it name the Person of God as Jehovah?
Is this Person God really or is there some other than the LORD to be found finally named as God?

Study Aids and Reasonable Solutions to your Bible Questions provided below.
Many a Mother Tongue to choose from with a current translation of the Bible at the ready.
A well used Bible is found here: http://watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm

Newly featured articles about every week or so for your convenience.
Please feel free to click on the link for yourself, to help you further satisfy an appetite involving spiritual hunger & thirst that needs to be met with soon.

http://www.watchtower.org/ ANNOUNCING JEHOVAH'S KINGDOM

Honor Your Father and Your Mother

Basically I am mostly referring to the first 3 Chapters of Genesis found among the Scriptures of God's Word.

Since my younger days when my sister taught me the story of Adam and Eve in the paradise Garden of Eden and how they sinned and lost it all, likewise in many meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses the same information and personal preaching about this matter by knocking at the doors of other people and telling them, but lately, I have come to see these things in a different light. With an open mind see what I mean.

Genesis 1:29 says that God went on to say that every fruit tree bearing seed was to serve as food. And later on in the chapter it says and it came to be so and then that it was very good..

This was when the man and woman were being married and blessed at the end of the sixth creative day. There was no exception to the fruit trees mentioned in the Bible at that time that were good for food but every tree on which there is the fruit of a tree bearing seed let it serve you for food and it came to be so.

The seventh day came and the serpent spoke to the woman. Consequently the woman saw that the tree of the knowledge of good and bad was good for food. And she saw that the tree was desirable to look upon. So she ate and gave some to her husband as well and he ate.

Then they knew that they were naked. They took fig leaves for loin coverings and hid not because they felt guilty but because they were conscious of their new naked condition. God made garmets of long skin for them and He drove them out of the Garden of Eden so that they may not eat from the tree of life.-. Here it is that God reverted to the way things used to be with the tree of knowledge of good and bad when He questioned the man and the woman about eating from that tree..

Jehovah had at one time commanded man not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad the Bible says, to Adam, when he was all alone. Adam may have told the woman what God had said after she was created. But Gen 1:29 came to be so instead when the man and woman were married.

It is terrible for some to display the attitude that if they were in the garden they wouldn't have sinned by the way they talk about the first married couple as gross rebellious sinners. What was their sin?. Would this knowledge gained by eating from the tree make them independent from God? No. For God said that now the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. The angels were not independent of God and neither would man be.

Did they steal from God? No. Gen 1:29 shows that the tree was good for food and they had permission to eat from trees like that and even the narrative in the Bible testifies that the woman saw that the tree was good for food. What trees that were good for food they had permission to eat from.

The man was not deceived. He knew that serpents couldn't talk on their own. Plus he didn't think that the woman lied to him about a talking serpent anyway. So he ate also because the tree was good for food and the woman offered some to him. Why should he suspect that a spirit creature turned bad when everything around him was very good and he had no warning about such an occurrence and that the woman joined such a one as this during the day?..

The woman said to the serpent about the tree in the middle of the garden that God had said not even to touch it that she may not die. Was this the tree of life in the middle of the garden?. If so the serpent said that she positively will not die if she ate from it. Even if it was the tree of the knowledge of good and bad the tree was good for food as mentioned earlier. It would be one of every fruit tree that became alright to eat from with the new command in the sixth day.

So the serpent did not lie. But Adam and Eve died apparently turning the serpent into a man slayer. Why?. Because the serpent may have interfered without permission. But God did create free moral agents.

The tree was good for food. Did the LORD God go back on his word somehow?. Did he take something out of context from Gen 1:29?. Remember it came to be so. The serpent said that she would not die consequently she saw that the tree was good for food. The Bible does not say that the serpent ate the fruit to show her that it was safe to eat for herself. This could be a false charge against the serpent in the context in which it is spoken about as a sinister act of some kind against the woman. She should not have died from eating of the fruit anyway it seems.

The serpent said to the woman that she would come to know good and bad like God if she ate of the special fruit tree. Who is God? The serpent did not use Father's personal name. The serpent may not have been referring to that One as God. Possibly the serpent was talking about a primary angel like the Firstborn of Creation as God that knew good and bad in the manner that the Father, Jehovah God did.

Interestingly that new directive of Gen. 1:28-29 was given to the man and the woman by God on the sixth day. Adam should have been able to eat the fruit as well on the seventh day. It came to be so on the sixth day. This means that the times were different than before. The special fruit tree was good for food now. It was also the way God made the fruit trees. Desirable to look upon. Then the woman ate. She seemed conscious of her spirituality. First she made sure that the fruit was right to eat and then she looked upon the desirableness of the tree. Then she ate. The tree offered her condition to be different and she may have contemplated that as a reasoning person to the best of her ability. The Bible does not say what she thought about. There was no rule to say who should eat from any tree first. So she partook of the fruit.

Even if the serpent was talking about the tree of the knowledge of good and bad he would have been correct that she positively will not die because again the tree was good for food on the seventh day.

The serpent said that she would become like God in knowing good and bad. God said himself that the man had become like them. How did the man sin?. This is what the tree offered. To make the serpent a liar It seems that God had to go back on his own word too. 11:01.:. God drove the man and woman out of the Garden of Eden to die and make the serpent a liar while seemingly compromising his own position to do so.

Was it just mere food that cost the lives of our father and mother in the Garden of Eden? Did the serpent trick the woman with mere food? Hardly, for Genesis 1:28-29 was a command on God's part that came to be so. The man and woman were together to hear about their food allowances at that time when they were being married perhaps, which would have at least included the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. But we do not read of them being together and hearing about that tree that it was forbidden to eat from like some have sadly written and published that God did. Read Listen to God and Live Forever page 9, published by Jehovah's Witnesses. Note: where in the Bible did it say that God showed Adam and Eve a tree that could cost them their lives if they ate from it?

What Pilate has written he has written. Has not God done the same thing with His word?. What about Jehovah's Witnesses are they not responsible for what they say in public?.

In the seventh day the serpent said that you positively will not die. Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food. Food should sustain the body to keep on living. It came to be so in the sixth day. This is what the Bible teaches. It is not a twisting of the scriptures to see things this way. It may be a twisting and a lack of depth to speak otherwise though. Please be careful.

The woman was morbidly afraid of the tree in the middle of the garden and apparently avoiding it. The one behind the serpent may have innocently surmised that and tried to correct the situation by speaking through a serpent to her. That one may have known that the tree was good for food and that is why it was spoken "you positively will not die" by the serpent. It may not have been appropriate for the spirit creature to show himself directly to the woman who had no name at this time and when it was customary for the man to be dealt with in the breezy part of the day. But it was not the man who was being spoken to but it was the woman. She was the one searching for food it seems and the serpent asked her a question about what food she could eat..

The serpent had no way of knowing what the woman would reply to his question. The woman could have quoted what Genesis 1:29 says not meaning that she had a Bible but from her perfect memory. It may be that what she said surprized the serpent and threw him off balance. Because the tree meant death at one time the woman was afraid of it. It seems that people primarily wanted to keep living. For such serious consequences everything seemed to happen quite quickly between what was said between different parties including what God said and did.. But where is the lie that the serpent told the woman?.

The fact that the woman said to God that the serpent deceived her shows that she still did not understand what happened to her. She was afraid. Serpents cannot talk on their own. Neither Adam or the woman argued with God about what was good for food. They respected God when He spoke to them..

What was the sin of the man and the woman and the speaker behind the serpent?. See what I mean?.
Did God act irrationally towards these individuals with the sentences He gave them?. Who knows?.

Had Adam received a warning about an errant spirit creature if this were the case he may have guarded his wife and himself more closely instead of letting her wonder around the Garden without his protection..

Does this mean that Christ Jesus' sacrifice is invalid? No! Mankind became imperfect somehow and needed to be bought back including our original father and mother so that dead persons could live again..

Was there a mincing of words between the Mighty God and his father Jehovah in regard to the blessing of the 6th day? This was an exciting time in man's history. Did the Mighty God in the excitement give the blessing and permission to eat which over rode Jehovah's command about the fruit trees to Adam and what was good for food and indirectly cause the loss of life to Adam and his wife because silently God still held to His original command and they ate of the forbidden fruit after the serpent spoke to the woman? Is this why Christ had to die as a mortal man to buy back what life was lost in the Garden of Eden? But the new command at Genesis 1:29 came to be so and was very good the Bible says.

Adam and his wife have been accused by Jehovah's Witnesses, in printed form, at public meetings and from door to door, as being gross disobedient rebellious sinners who chose to take Satan's side of an issue of Universal Sovereignty by partaking of forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. I do not read of an issue of Universal Sovereignty in any Scripture just like the word Trinity is not found there to promote a Triune God.

But I do read of a paradox about once forbidden fruit caused by the speaker known only as God found in the Scripture of Genesis 1:28-29. Did poor confused people need to die? Why? It does not seem fair that subjects of God should suffer because of updated instructions that they personally heard about what they could now eat after being married. Does that not seem to you like they were granted a release from any previous command about fruit trees?. If not then...

...did Adam sin at the fault of the Mighty God as an unintentional man slayer and at Christ's expense from whom his Father said that the cup could not pass away from Jesus as a corresponding ransom for the first man Adam and consequently mankind in general or many others needing a resurrection who have come from Adam's loins, to live again?..:..::. Does this resurrection leave out the nephilim who were born from women?:. Please remember that the woman who came to be called Eve by Adam was taken from Adam's rib not his loins. But she still came from Adam just the same. How much life will the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus cover? It remains to be seen what God's judgement will allow for..

Does this mean that God is not fit to be loved anymore because of justice like this if so?
No it does not mean that! The Mosaic Law declared eye for eye and tooth for tooth so from that life for life. Apparently even if the principle might affect the firstborn of creation God's son.

Elohim is in the plural in the Bible near the end of Genesis chapter 1 for the word "God". Does not plural also mean more than one of a kind in this instance possibly denoting Gods in the sense that some "God" other than Jehovah God was doing the speaking to Adam and his wife at the end of the 6th day?.. Possibly Gods in the plural meaning Jehovah and His firstborn son and elohim meant that the son as a "God" was speaking on occasion and possibly be doing other things in man's affairs>?.

Elohim as gods may have been discouraged to use because of the danger of labeling 3 Gods as one in a Trinity or Triune God. But a person does not say " two God" they say "two Gods". In the Bible I know of two Gods with a capital "G" in the beginning of the word god. One is Jehovah God the Most High over all the earth and the other is Mighty God referring to the Firstborn of Creation and known also as the mortal man Jesus Christ. No where have I read in the Bible that the Holy Spirit is a God. Therefore it seems that the use of the plural of Elohim could legitimately mean 2 Gods as "God" is used in Genesis 1:28 for example meaning that the person known later to people as the Mighty God was doing the speaking. The context may indicate along with an accurate knowledge of God"s Word the Bible whether the term "God" is being applied as Excellence or the 2 Gods of the creative works.

There must be a good reason why Jehovah God acted this way in taking lives in the light of Genesis 1:29.
But the Bible does not seem to exactly explain why. Was He the God speaking at Genesis 1:29?. It is something to consider.

Mere oppression will make the wise one act crazy. Perhaps there was a difference in the heavens over some new math in the classroom with the Teacher of spirit persons. Who knows?. It is not unthinkable. The finding of irrational pi as an answer for C/d = pi in a circle may have caused pride on the part of the one who discovered it and possibly opened up new lines of thought that were hard to deal with at first. .:.:.

Pi is introduced with a value of 3 in the Bible openly with the Molten Sea which included the use of a circumference and a radius creating an inscribed hexagon when measuring the circle of the Molten Sea and made fun of by persons today who may feel they know better what the value of C/d is namely supporters of chaos under the authority of the air and world ruler...:.:.

Pi is a letter of the Greek alphabet. The Greeks once ruled over the Isrealites. A Greek named Archimedes found a way with the use of a circumscribed hexagon to appoximate irrational pi a long time ago.. It is revered to this day. This would seem superior to a pi value of 3 like the conquered Hebrews had recorded and perhaps open up ideas of chaotic secrets to the start of the universe in the eyes of some people living on the earth today.:.:.:.::.

Does this seem insignificant to you?. That temple built by Solomon was Holy. Jehovah is a God of order.
I have proved that pi=3 on MSN Groups with cubits of time indicating that 360/120=3. Also I have proved that 1080/7^3 = pi rationally as well. This too has caught the attention of the world's math community.

Is irrational pi simply the result of man's efforts or is it inspired by the Original Serpent?:!:/0:.::.

When offering the kingdoms of the world to Jesus was Satan giving up his original math as well?.

Adam did not live even 1 day as a 1000 years in God's eyes and after 80 years we fly wrote Moses the writer of both the 90th Psalm and Genesis speaking about death.:.:. After 1080 years from man's beginning there was no paradise anymore and death ruled as king. This is not the way life was meant to be. Enoch was taken at 365 years in his life and Noah's father died at 777 years just before the flood:.::/1=5:.. Moses himself died at the age of 120 years. A figure that is one third of 360 or days of a lunar year. Is there hidden meaning about the earth and pi and possibly much more in the Bible or is this just coincidence?..:. It is fair to consider everything.:.

Stopping the earth in Joshua's day would be a perfect opportunity to start t5he earth up with an elliptical orbit based on irrational pi making the year 365.2422 days long and the day a little less than 24 hours..
It did not take a whole day for the earth to start up again the Bible says. Satan argued his position whatever it was day and night. It may have been about the circle at first perhaps. This new orbit with an earth affected by the flood of Noah's day may have caused the prophesying by Jesus of earthquakes in one place after another in the last days as the orbit finally decayed to that condition long before God's Kingdom fixes everything over all.:.:.::.

The cause of imperfection may indirectly be the result of an argument in the heavens over the mathematics of a circle or who is -1 from i^2 = -1 which may be a mathematical lie in the light of the simple equation x^3 - 2x^2 = 1 when x^2 + 1 = 0:..:. ...:..:!..

Who knows?. It is not unthinkable. But whatever the case Genesis 1:29 came to be so in the sixth day..
And everything was said to be very good by God himself.:.:.*4=20.:.+5=9:25..house.:.reversegravity.:.

Why did God subject the Creation to futility?. What was Adam and his wife's sin?..
What was the lie told by the serpent? All these questions in the light of Genesis 1:28-29...:.:.

This good news of God's Kingdom Ruled by Christ Jesus will be preached. Matt. 24:14.

Taking God's name from the Bible may dampen efforts to find out the truth about matters.:::/0:.

PJS Standing by. God knows why...!:.:.:. ; .!::...::. ; :!.!::.... ; :!:_.:.::/0. ; 5?.:::..!.::.:. 7*10=70!..=9^2 Unitycall.Love.=100AmIanactor?OrisGodafraud?.:.=5.=8!!!.xx^2x^3.-1:/0.EDDY./9.DE.:.!.DM.:.=20:..5.:.!9.:.::.=15:1/900.=10:.!.=6.:.=40.|1|:.::!.2%:::.!=60.:!..:.=13.!.=10::!.=80.:::!/9.:.::.=15.=100.22:.11!_:.:!.:.....:../1.125./0:.Unitycall.Happiness::.!:./100.:.!.=15:.!./7^3=3P:...!!.::.=10:....:....::::::.!:.

The Forum is What is God? The question is A Man slayer? That may depend on who god is. The topic is Who is God? The answer may be more difficult than the question appears on the surface. Consider the quote above which has been edited with some interesting additions and for some spelling errors.

Last edited: August 4/2011. Please see post 164, 166 and 168. http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20953&st=150

[Joesus]

You won't find the answer in any Bible, nor will you get it from someone else.

[P.j.S]

You won't find the answer in any Bible, nor will you get it from someone else.

The Bible may have the answer for who is God. 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is inspired by God and good for setting things straight for one thing.

[Joesus]

The Bible may have the answer for who is God. 2 Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is inspired by God and good for setting things straight for one thing.

It would be impossible to imbue personal experience with a book.
If it was possible, there would be no necessity to do an internship after studying to be a doctor, or to go thru hands on training after studying all the materials necessary to familiarize yourself with an aircraft in learning to fly a passenger jet. To assume you could read a book and become enlightened is an old and foolish ideal

If anyone is interested in some of the history regarding "The book of Mormon you could begin with this:

http://mormonconspiracy.com/book-of-mormon.html

Another tidbit of information regarding the violent nature of Joseph Smith would be the history of the Mountain Meadows Massacre in Utah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

Basically Joseph Smith was pissed that his group was exiled from Missouri, so he indoctrinated his officers in the idea that God wanted anyone and everyone who would pass thru their land to be executed as revenge for the past.

Now it would be interesting also to take a look into the scripture you mentioned, but instead of quoting one line of the scripture to elevate one thought, it would be beneficial to look into more of the complete paragraph. Sometimes even better to look into the particular book mentioned so that you know who was being spoken to and more of what the story is about.

There is some controversy regarding the author of 2 Timothy which differentiates itself from 1 Timothy. 1st Timothy is generally accepted as being authored by Paul but that has never been proven. 2nd Timothy is addressed to Paul and to Timotheus and as far as the scholars know the author may have been a follower of Paul who wrote the doctrine after Pauls death. Normally scripture is of the enlightened word, but we should remain cognizant of the fact that Jesus himself never wrote anything down, and so it was many years after the crucifixion that the scripture came out and generally accepted as being authored by his disciples.
This is not always the case. It is generally known that Revelations was dictated by John and written by a disciple of John while imprisoned on the isle of Patmos.

One must bear in mind that after time what one remembers of what they have been told changes thru the years. I can testify to the fact that in my own instruction, what I knew when I was being taught changed with the experience I gained thru the years after. What I understood of scripture in the past has matured so to speak. New meaning and understanding of God is ongoing.
Since God does not fit into a box, the immensity of God is forever becoming and/or unfolding.

Anyway lets look at 2nd Timothy and two different translations different to the Book of Mormon Translation which is slightly over a century old.

2 Timothy

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

1 But be certain of this, that in the last days times of trouble will come.

No one really knows what the last days are, but within the context of enlightenment as testified in his own experiences, Jesus often referred to those days when one walks a fine line between the temptations and attachments to egoic identification with the physical body and the freedom of the immortal Soul.
It is possible that he might speak of some day centuries beyond the days he spoke to his disciples and followers, but logically speaking what concern would those he spoke to over 2000 years ago have with a future so far away? It would make more sense if one put it into the time scale pertinent to those around him as he taught. AND to put it into a timeless perspective in that in every generation, a time will come when one will look into what is most important to their connection with the Universal principal of life.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, uplifted in pride, given to bitter words, going against the authority of their fathers, never giving praise, having no religion,

This obviously does not pertain to a future moment, but rather the times he (Jesus) lived and all times including now.

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

3 Without natural love, bitter haters, saying evil of others, violent and uncontrolled, hating all good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

4 False to their friends, acting without thought, lifted up in mind, loving pleasure more than God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

5 Having a form of religion, but turning their backs on the power of it: go not with these.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

6 For these are they who go secretly into houses, making prisoners of foolish women, weighted down with sin, turned from the way by their evil desires,

I think 2 Timothy 3:5 is really interesting. It speaks of religionist who speak of God but do not know God or the Power that exists in ones self as the Son of God.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

7 Ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of what is true.

Nice. The definition of a religionist who spouts words but has no power of practical experience with God or God within themselves. A person who quotes scripture and touts their bible and religion but knows absolutely nothing about what they are talking about. History has shown us that no religion, no matter which one, has found the cure for suffering and escape from corruption. No one in any Church, has ever had the drawing power, intelligence, compassion or wisdom of the man thy worship as their personal God and Saviour.

The best one has been able to do is to make threats to the opposition of the faith whether justified or fabricated and to rally a number of their followers to lay waste to land and human life. Something their saviour never taught or would do in his life.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

8 And as James and Jambres went against Moses, so do these go against what is true: men of evil minds, who, tested by faith, are seen to be false.

9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

9 But they will go no farther: for their foolish behaviour will be clear to all men, as theirs was in the end.

If the quote is of Jesus speaking to the disciples or of Paul to his, the reference is to the idea that ignorant is as ignorant does. You reap what you sew kinda thing.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, long suffering, charity, patience,

10 But you took as your example my teaching, behaviour, purpose, and faith; my long waiting, my love, my quiet undergoing of trouble;

Since it hasn't been determined who the author is and or who it is that is being quoted it is less likely that one would know the doctrine of whoever is being referenced. Let's face it. The disciples of Jesus spent years listening and asking questions of Jesus and his knowledge and experience. The most obvious conclusion would be that you could never condense years of tutelage into a few paragraphs and expect to instantly absorb experience and understanding. If the Bible hadn't been so painstakingly edited in the 4th century to omit the things Jesus spoke of regarding reincarnation and his previous life with John the Baptist as his Teacher you might get an idea of how long it took Jesus in his multiple lifetimes to achieve the mastery he had of his experience with God.

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

11 My punishments and pain; the things which came to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; the cruel attacks made on me: and the Lord made me free from them all.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

12 Yes, and all whose purpose is to be living in the knowledge of God in Christ Jesus, will be cruelly attacked.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

13 Evil and false men will become worse and worse, using deceit and themselves overcome by deceit.

Unfortunately every spiritual man or woman who would proselytize themselves will desire to become the martyr and vindicate themselves thru the idea that suffering under attack is the way of the lord, which will end in salvation or a special place in heaven. In fact they will use this to also threaten those who oppose their preaching with eternal damnation, hell fire or suffering and sickness.
There's a Mormon preacher, currently being tried for sexual molestation that preaches polygamy as divine law who is now threatening the court and all involved in his persecution with this very thing.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

14 But see that you keep to the teaching you have been given and the things of which you are certain, conscious of who has been your teacher;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

15 And that from the time when you were a child, you have had knowledge of the holy Writings, which are able to make you wise to salvation, through faith in Christ Jesus.

I would want to know who is teaching and who is being taught before I assume that the totality of what was being taught was being referenced. Then I personally would think that the teaching, as in any teaching when given by someone of experience, would include an interaction between the student and the teacher with practical application and validation with that guidance. Otherwise you risk lending knowledge to the interpretation of personality and personalities tendency to misinterpret or twist meanings into designs that are straying from the original meanings.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

16 Every holy Writing which comes from God is of profit for teaching, for training, for guiding, for education in righteousness:

All scripture is thru the inspiration of clear mind or one tuned into God. Jesus was considered a Master and one of clear mind. The Bible unfortunately is still considered an edited document by scholars who, thru democratic process wrote a book by compiling quotes from the teacher to the student. But not a book with the content and heart of his years with his students in interactive discourse and study.
Then the book was edited and translated to give meanings to words that originally scribed could not be translated into the new language. From Hebrew and Aramaic into German Greek and Latin, words were altered to try and convey the original intent. Then edited again in the 4th century. One would have to study scripture to understand scripture. Once one has read enough scripture by enough of the masters who have made a name for themselves similarities are gleaned within texts which point in a direction but not define something to a particular way of thinking or experience idealized by religion.

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

17 So that the man of God may be complete, trained and made ready for every good work.

If we even allow for the word trained to be part of this equation, we would have to assume the trainer or teacher is not a book, with the experience behind them in the nature of what is being taught.
Since those who are reading the book supposedly authored by those who were personally trained we could assume the book itself is not the Teacher or the trainer, but instead testimony to the endeavor of Teaching and training, or validation thru guidance.

[P.j.S]

Jesus was leading his life in a ministry that was going to change the Jewish way of worship and he told his disciples why and how he would have to die as a perfect person as a ransom and corresponding sacrifice for the first man Adam. Why could he not just keep living? Father said that this cup would not pass from him. Why did he have to die?

The story of Eden may give insight into this matter of justice when considering elohim and who is God speaking at Genesis 1:28-29 possibly causing a conflict over the tree of the knowledge of good and bad among the Gods.

[Joesus]

Jesus was leading his life in a ministry that was going to change the Jewish way of worship and he told his disciples why and how he would have to die as a perfect person as a ransom and corresponding sacrifice for the first man Adam. Why could he not just keep living? Father said that this cup would not pass from him. Why did he have to die?

According to scripture he never told them he was going to die. But rather than he would be crucified only to rise up beyond the appearance of death into the resurrection. This was to display the ultimate form of the human expression that could be comprehended beyond the death of the body, or the living consciousness immortal.

So in essence he did not have to die nor did he die. Instead what scripture suggests, is that he displayed a transformation for the level of conscious awareness to get a slight grip on reality, by playing the Adam story in reverse.

Adam takes consciousness in his immortal form into the density of mortality. Jesus reverses the process and takes the dense mortal form into the etheric light body of an immortal.

Who is God? Man is God. Individually, collectively and obviously more than the sum of its parts.

The story of Eden may give insight into this matter of justice when considering elohim and who is God speaking at Genesis 1:28-29 possibly causing a conflict over the tree of the knowledge of good and bad among the Gods.

Genesis 1:27-29

26 And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'

27 And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.

28 And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.'

29 And God saith, `Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which `is' upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which `is' the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food;

God imbuing man in the image of God (which is faceless but in all faces) male and female logical and intuitive, artistic and destructive, bore thru desire a creature fully possessed to create universes, with mastery over matter, and with the ability to create (multiply him/herself) the image with all manner of personality and habits, as well as all manner of animal and plant life.

29 is an analogy for the essence of all of creation. The absolute within. With that inside nothing else would be needed to nourish the soul. For that is the seed of all that is.

But then to the average man it implies that the lesser qualities of manifest reality may suffice to be taken in as food thru the belief that the energy of creation itself can be absorbed by taking it indirectly thru the material form in the digestive process. The absolute feeds the un-manifest soul and the manifest food reinforces the manifestation of the body. One is permanent, and the other, not so much.....

[P.j.S]

It is known that Jesus lie dead in a tomb for parts of 3 days before he was resurrected to life again.

[Joesus]

It is known that Jesus lie dead in a tomb for parts of 3 days before he was resurrected to life again.

The popular belief is that the body was dead and that he was entombed. But then the popular knowledge is that after three days they found it empty with the cover removed. No one was in the tomb with him for those three days, and no one really understood the contradiction in knowledge if you will, that he had the ability to raise the dead, heal the sick, walk thru walls, change water into wine, multiply 4 fish and few loaves of bread to feed a thousand people, transport himself from place to place as well as to defy gravity by walking on water, but somehow couldn't keep from being captured and crucified. WTF?

No coroners record to qualify the death, nor does man even today yet have the definitive answer to what death is.

Since you like math which leans toward science, you might like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akgCb85PG-A...n_order&list=UL

[P.j.S]

Adam and Eve were mortal. They had not eaten from the Tree of Life. God did not permit this. Justice would require that another perfect mortal would have to die as a corresponding sacrifice to the first perfect man Adam who died in the end.

Adam and Eve had imperfect children and when the perfect man came the earth was full of imperfect people. Jesus demonstrated what a perfect man could do miraculously with a close relationship with Father. Father was greater than Jesus and Father's will is what Jesus did.

Jesus died as a mere man. This is what the records about the Bible teach. Sadly others twist what the scriptures say or try to imply that they have experience about God beyond the Bible. But the Bible records what Jesus said about John the Baptist. No one among men were greater than he was and yet he was not greater than Jesus his master and John died. For a slave is not greater than the master. The master was Jesus and Jesus died as a mortal man to balance the scales of justice.

I doubt Joesus that you have eaten the fruit from the Tree of Life. This makes you an imperfect man who has not fully resisted aging and faces death in this system of things like we all do.

Christ was dead for parts of three days and then he was lifted up. Based on that resurrection people living can have a hope too that at a more appropriate time Jesus will bring them back to life if they die before God's kingdom rules more fully in man's affairs. For since the Kingdom has come a great preaching work has been done door to door letting people know that the time is short before earth's woes are gone forever.

[PJS]

It is interesting that the serpent said that the woman would be like God in knowing good and bad if she ate of the special fruit tree. Who is God? The serpent did not use Father's personal name Jehovah. The serpent may not have been referring to that One.

Possibly the serpent was talking about a primary angel like the Firstborn of Creation as God who may have known about good and bad in the manner that the Father, Jehovah God does.

The plural of Elohim may mean more than one God. Like Gods referring to two prominent persons in Creation.

[Joesus]

Adam and Eve represent human mortality. Where the first humans were born and when has never really been established other than thru belief.
Small minded religionists believe earth is the only planet in a single universe of over 400 billion galaxies that has intelligent life, and the only life that gave birth to a single person known as the son of God.
That's OK by me... it's a step above the whole earth is flat scenario...

Jesus demonstrated what a perfect man could do miraculously with a close relationship with Father. Father was greater than Jesus and Father's will is what Jesus did.
Jesus died as a mere man.....

Seems you contradict yourself. IF he was a perfect man and merely a man, then no mere man is less than perfect. Some are less educated or aware but that does not make them less than perfect. Religion invented the idea of the perfect and imperfect man as a means to measure a man and separate brother from brother, sister from sister, Mother from daughter, and Father from son..

But the Bible records what Jesus said about John the Baptist. No one among men were greater than he was and yet he was not greater than Jesus his master and John died. For a slave is not greater than the master. The master was Jesus and Jesus died as a mortal man to balance the scales of justice.

Yeah I'm sure someones translation makes this so, however there is evidence (if you want to call the bible an authority on fact) of a man born 2000 years prior to Jesus by the name of Melchizedek who appeared on Earth without being born of a woman, who had left the same way he came.

So you think John the Baptist was Jesus' slave? Fascinating...

The records of his (Melchizedek's) miracles were often used as a standard in which Jesus was measured as were many priests that were called Melchizedek priests. The Bible even references Jesus as a Melchizedek Priest. The bible also references the disciples as having performed miracles with the instruction of Jesus as well as Lazarus who was taught by Jesus to raise the dead. All merely plain mortal men.....
As you said, People twist words to manipulate stories to fit within the boundaries of belief. What does not fit within belief is rejected for what is often called the pleasant truth, or that which can be sold as the truth to pander to the needs of a certain mindset.
The point being, there is no proof within the words of the bible for anything Jesus said or did. It is all testimony according to a majority. A testimony that inspires a large mindset to explore the possibilities of reality. Unfortunately a good amount of people simply accept what they are told as fact and a great deal of those will lay down their lives for a belief in something they have no real experience in. That is a sad fact of the ego.

I doubt Joesus that you have eaten the fruit from the Tree of Life. This makes you an imperfect man who has not fully resisted aging and faces death in this system of things like we all do.

I have no doubt that you have doubts. If you don't know what you are looking for, how do you find it?

Resisting death only perpetuates the reality of it. Embracing death as a part of life at least gets you closer to realizing what you think is alive and temporary, is not really life. You might call suffering in the name of God Jehovah a life, but that is a poor example of an idea that man accepts as reality. As the best one can accept as an example of life, man had to make up an afterlife where one finds reward for suffering. The church had a way and a plan to steer mankind like cattle thru the pastures of subservience.

I can't imagine any Father who would demand their children suffer to please him, but those who would try to explain their suffering as the will of God, find some twisted solace in that idea. Man creates his own suffering and it has nothing to do with what a personality called God outside of ones self, dictates.

You seem to want to point toward the vindictive and petty God as the answer to the Topic at hand. A perfect personality bound by human emotions and desires with a Title.

The plural of Elohim may mean more than one God. Like Gods referring to two prominent persons in Creation.

Or the consciousness of 6 billion people residing within the aging forms of human mortality.

[PJS]

Who is God? Joesus what is your God's name? Can you identify that one? I don't call you man. I call you Joesus. When calling upon the true God what is His name please?

[Dianah]

God’s name is Peter, Joesus, Shawn, Penelope, John, Susan etc…

God’s form is breath

God’s life is vitality

To evoke the light of God into the heart of man…is the Word.

Language of light is that which must be remembered withIN the
breath of life…therein lays the VOICE of God…his true name.

[P.j.S]

God’s name is Peter, Joesus, Shawn, Penelope, John, Susan etc…

God’s form is breath

God’s life is vitality

To evoke the light of God into the heart of man…is the Word.

Language of light is that which must be remembered withIN the
breath of life…therein lays the VOICE of God…his true name.

Joesus is the name of your God "VOICE"?

[Joesus]

God is in every voice. Once one comes to know the voice of God it shines thru every part of creation.
Giving the voice/spirit a name only personalizes it, yet it is not partial to any personal reality.

By the way I see that you don't believe in reincarnation or at least in the suggestion I made regarding Jesus (Elisha) and John the Baptist (Elijah) in the Bible, where it stated that Elisha would take up his masters mantle after the death of Elijah.
When Jesus spoke to John, he spoke to him with the love in memory of the relationship they had as Teacher and Student. In his incarnation as Jesus he (Elisha) took up the reversed role as the Master, while John played the lesser part (NOT that of a slave). They were famous in the stories of the bible for performing miracles together in their other incarnations.

They, called God "Father" Some call the voice of the Father "The Holy Spirit" (the living link between the absolute and the manifest)

Some call God Yahweh many call God by a number of other names. You want to call God by your name and deny all others their own title of endearment so that you may hope to maintain a sense of purity and righteousness.

Why do you feel threatened if God is bigger than your religion and the names you wish to idolize your God with?

Do you believe God can have only one name or be absent in any part of creation?

I think Jakare was intuitive enough to know that you are here to promote your particular belief in the Mormon ideals, since you seem partial to arguing for the way you see the truth without offering leeway to truth (relative as it is within personal beliefs of others) from anyone else when answering the question you posed in this thread.

Why did you pose the question? I think maybe it wasn't to gain any insight outside of the box you live in but rather to argue with everyone that lives outside of the box you want to put God and everything else in.

[PJS]

You say that God is in every voice. A voice once spoke Ps 83:18 where Jehovah is identified as the Most High over all the earth. This is the name substituted by the title "LORD". Everywhere the title "LORD" is in A Bible is once where the name JEHOVAH was.

I merely recognize what the voice of someone in the past has told me. Jesus said that Father was greater than he was. This was the audible voice of the Lord in the past. Now he is King of kings and Lord of lords but Jehovah is still the Most High over all the earth.

Elijah was a prophet of Jehovah's and Jehovah was the Father of Jesus. Jesus made Father's name known in a public ministry in which others would do greater works by preaching to the whole world than Jesus did who basically preached to the Jews as Jesus said so himself.

The voices of all these preachers from door to door has raised up and told the magnificent things of God to listening ears at the doors just as Jesus did in his day. Surely Jehovah would be pleased with His name being made known. All this work would not be in vain because Jehovah is God as mentioned in the Scriptures and some people have tried unsuccessfully to hide God's name today.

Oppressors of God hate the name of Jehovah. They try to deny Him his voice and prevent making this name known among the people. But not everyone is like that or the preaching work would not increasingly get done telling out with their voices who is God to the public worldwide. A collective voice of common mortal people today who have the hope of living forever as the Bible offers by its teachings for those who have had their perceptive powers trained by Jehovah God through his word.

[Joesus]

You say that God is in every voice.

Is there someplace where God is not? You side stepped this question earlier..

A voice once spoke Ps 83:18 where Jehovah is identified as the Most High over all the earth. This is the name substituted by the title "LORD". Everywhere the title "LORD" is in A Bible is once where the name JEHOVAH was.

Jehovah (according to some scholars) is an anglicized derivative of the Hebrew vocalization of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible.
according to wiki..
YHWH appears 6,518 times in the traditional Masoretic Text, in addition to 305 instances of Jehovih. The earliest available Latin text to use a vocalization similar to Jehovah dates from the 13th century.

Most scholars believe "Jehovah" to be a late (ca. 1100 CE) hybrid form derived by combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai, but there is some evidence that it may already have been in use in Late Antiquity (5th century). It was not the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Pentateuch (6th century BCE), at which time the most likely vocalization was Yahweh.


Jehovah is composed of the abbreviated forms of the imperfect, the participle, and the perfect of the Hebrew verb "to be" (ye=yehi; ho=howeh; wa=hawah). According to this explanation, the meaning of Jehovah would be "he who will be, is, and has been". But such a word-formation has no analogy in the Hebrew language.

I merely recognize what the voice of someone in the past has told me.

Most never progress further in their own experience, beyond what someone has told them

Jesus said that Father was greater than he was. This was the audible voice of the Lord in the past. Now he is King of kings and Lord of lords but Jehovah is still the Most High over all the earth.

That audible voice also said: "I and my Father are One. What the Father witnesses in me, I witness in the Father." The indication of greatness or of measure in comparison, was that the unmanifest is greater in scope than the manifest due to the limitation of the outward oriented senses. The lord of lords or king of kings is the living link that exists within each human that is the Image of God. The image is Christed or anointed consciousness. That link exists in every man woman and child. The only difference between Jesus and any other man is that Jesus learned how to turn on the link by expanding his awareness thru the more subtle senses.

Elijah was a prophet of Jehovah's and Jehovah was the Father of Jesus. Jesus made Father's name known in a public ministry in which others would do greater works by preaching to the whole world than Jesus did who basically preached to the Jews as Jesus said so himself.

Preaching ignorance on a world wide scale was not the "Greater Things" Jesus was referring to. That reference was to reveal what he couldn't because of the limited mindset of the world as it was during his time. Without the knowledge of the universe as it is known today there are things that simply cannot be described in context that the mind can grasp. You don't hand the car keys to a 5 year old and tell them to hit the freeway, and Jesus could not hand the keys to the universe to sheep that could not fathom the reality of what he was.
100 years from now the world will be even better prepared to accept a greater truth than the superstitions that the mind accepts on faith as the reality of God.

The voices of all these preachers from door to door has raised up and told the magnificent things of God to listening ears at the doors just as Jesus did in his day. Surely Jehovah would be pleased with His name being made known. All this work would not be in vain because Jehovah is God as mentioned in the Scriptures and some people have tried unsuccessfully to hide God's name today.

Now you're just cheerleading for the JW's and the Mormons. Every JW or Mormon that I have heard at my door always speaks to the wonders of God coming in some future when everyone becomes a follower of their faith or when all that is left are those of that belief after God destroys all of his other children in favor of those who become subservient to a particular way of thinking.

Never has one like you told me of the wonders of God as they exist in all that is around the world inclusive of all religions and beliefs in God.
You exalt your belief in the hopes you will be exalted in the eyes of a personal God who judges his children, or loves them according to their performance.
Anyone who knows God knows better.
Anyone who has been a parent knows love does not exist as a condition of preference but as a living link that exists beyond systems of personal measure.
People just like to tack their emotional baggage on top of love to define love by their limitations and attachments.

If you were to play God, you would be scolding your babies for not standing, walking and acting like you. You would be making up reasons why they act the way they do to condemn them as being haters of their father for not living up to your expectations.

Fortunately God has more wisdom and tolerance than small thinkers like yourself.

Oppressors of God hate the name of Jehovah.

Oppressors of God hate any reference to God. You are generalizing to try and make a point to your favor in the idea that Jehovah is the one and only name for God in a universe of multidimensionality and lifeforms that exist far and beyond what you want life to be. You limit your vision.
Become a parent and tell your child that you will not accept any other name as your name other than Da Da. Then tell them if they don't learn to call you by that name alone they will be bad children or ignorant children.

[PJS]

Who is God? What is His name? It is true that the original pure Hebrew was lost when God scrambled the language of men at the time of the tower of Babel into many languages. Since that time the true pronunciation of God's name has been lost. But still He knows who is making an effort to call upon His name as it is generally accepted by the world around us today.

God is identified in the first Scripture in the Bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Primarily God existed before the heavens which was the government to rule over the founding of the literal earth sitting in darkness and the society of people to live on the earth that followed. This government included the Firstborn Son of God a most powerful archangel. How do we know that this is what the heavens meant? Because the literal heavens including the greater and lesser luminaries plus all the stars were not created until the 4th creative day. The literal earth was existing before that. The Bible refers to heavens as a government different times.

God in this scripture uses Elohim in the plural meaning Majesty or Excellence. Since the Firstborn Spirit Son took on a perfect form as a mortal man and taught his Father's name while on the earth it can generally be accepted that the name of the Most High of all the earth and the governmental heavens is Jehovah from YHWH.

Where is it written and published anywhere else what the Most High over all the earth's name is besides Psalm 83:18?

Jehovah God is our Creator and Life Giver.

[Dianah]

Who is God? What is His name? It is true that the original pure Hebrew was lost when God scrambled the language of men at the time of the tower of Babel into many languages. Since that time the true pronunciation of God's name has been lost. But still He knows who is making an effort to call upon His name as it is generally accepted by the world around us today.

God is identified in the first Scripture in the Bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Primarily God existed before the heavens which was the government to rule over the founding of the literal earth sitting in darkness and the society of people to live on the earth that followed. This government included the Firstborn Son of God a most powerful archangel. How do we know that this is what the heavens meant? Because the literal heavens including the greater and lesser luminaries plus all the stars were not created until the 4th creative day. The literal earth was existing before that. The Bible refers to heavens as a government different times.

God in this scripture uses Elohim in the plural meaning Majesty or Excellence. Since the Firstborn Spirit Son took on a perfect form as a mortal man and taught his Father's name while on the earth it can generally be accepted that the name of the Most High of all the earth and the governmental heavens is Jehovah from YHWH.

Where is it written and published anywhere else what the Most High over all the earth's name is besides Psalm 83:18?

Jehovah God is our Creator and Life Giver.

Peter,

Is this what you are saying?

In the dimensions of Yetsirah exists a hierarchy. Yetsirah preceded physical man. The ‘God’ of this realm, or that which commands the position of ‘most high’ falls within the vibration or name of Jehovah? Thus with the lack of this knowledge and expression of this name/word, a connection or remembrance is lost/forgotten?

Jehovah therefore can be aligned with Kether…and that which begat the tree of life?

[PJS]

Who is God? What is His name? It is true that the original pure Hebrew was lost when God scrambled the language of men at the time of the tower of Babel into many languages. Since that time the true pronunciation of God's name has been lost. But still He knows who is making an effort to call upon His name as it is generally accepted by the world around us today.

God is identified in the first Scripture in the Bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Primarily God existed before the heavens which was the government to rule over the founding of the literal earth sitting in darkness and the society of people to live on the earth that followed. This government included the Firstborn Son of God a most powerful archangel. How do we know that this is what the heavens meant? Because the literal heavens including the greater and lesser luminaries plus all the stars were not created until the 4th creative day. The literal earth was existing before that. The Bible refers to heavens as a government different times.

God in this scripture uses Elohim in the plural meaning Majesty or Excellence. Since the Firstborn Spirit Son took on a perfect form as a mortal man and taught his Father's name while on the earth it can generally be accepted that the name of the Most High of all the earth and the governmental heavens is Jehovah from YHWH.

Where is it written and published anywhere else what the Most High over all the earth's name is besides Psalm 83:18?

Jehovah God is our Creator and Life Giver.

Peter,

Is this what you are saying?

In the dimensions of Yetsirah exists a hierarchy. Yetsirah preceded physical man. The ‘God’ of this realm, or that which commands the position of ‘most high’ falls within the vibration or name of Jehovah? Thus with the lack of this knowledge and expression of this name/word, a connection or remembrance is lost/forgotten?

Jehovah therefore can be aligned with Kether…and that which begat the tree of life?

This is something that you are saying. I have said what is mentioned in the quote above about the Most High over all the earth Jehovah God.

[Dianah]

What you say and suggest has a very esoteric tone to it and does not fall into the ‘average’ Jehovah Witness theologies, at least from my experiences with everyday Jehovah‘s…sounds very Kabblistic to me…

[PJS]

What you say and suggest has a very esoteric tone to it and does not fall into the ‘average’ Jehovah Witness theologies, at least from my experiences with everyday Jehovah‘s…sounds very Kabblistic to me…

I don't claim to be all knowing. I am just sharing what my faith says who God is in the light of Genesis 1:28-29.

Please refer to "Honor Your Father and Your Mother" at post 125 of this discussion.for possibly some new remarks about who God is from the command given at Genesis 1:28-29 to Adam and his wife.

[Dianah]

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

Who is the “them” that God blessed and imparted this knowledge to? Who had ‘ears’ to hear this knowledge when God originally spoke? Surely it must have been the ‘government’ within the heavens, who then sent sparks of themselves unto the earth in which to fulfill the scripture…and to return to the heavens, one must ‘grow’ ears that can hear and eyes that can ‘see’…the remembrance of the spark they are…or as you share; the knocking on doors.

I don't claim to be all knowing. I am just sharing what my faith says who God is in the light of Genesis 1:28-29.

I appreciate your sharing. And I’ve never felt, nor accused that you claim to be all knowing.

[PJS]

God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

Who is the “them” that God blessed and imparted this knowledge to? Who had ‘ears’ to hear this knowledge when God originally spoke? Surely it must have been the ‘government’ within the heavens, who then sent sparks of themselves unto the earth in which to fulfill the scripture…and to return to the heavens, one must ‘grow’ ears that can hear and eyes that can ‘see’…the remembrance of the spark they are…or as you share; the knocking on doors.

I don't claim to be all knowing. I am just sharing what my faith says who God is in the light of Genesis 1:28-29.

I appreciate your sharing. And I’ve never felt, nor accused that you claim to be all knowing.

The "them" being asked about is referring to the man Adam and the unnamed woman who were being married at the time of the command also about what they could eat and were the only two humans alive at the time. Being fruitful or having children is primarily reserved for married people as the original couple set the precedent. God married the couple. There was no third party to have children out of wed-lock with and neither did the couple have children before they were blessed on the sixth day. Marriage is a Holy and clean arrangement.

The marriage applied to the fleshly couple and the earth was given to them as their home.

The heavens (government) which heard and witnessed the blessing were created first but not conducted to be fruitful as fleshly people were for when the sons of God took women they left their natural dwelling place to do so.

It may be that the Word was the God speaking out the blessing from the Heavens (government). It is not impossible to think that as being the truth. This leaves Jehovah in a rational state when considering the sentences he applied to the first perfect married couple for sinning against Him so that they became imperfect and died.

[Dianah]

Now that is a Jehovah response that I have experienced before…very fundamentalist…you still are very kabalistic…even when trying to ‘derail’ observers…wavering from esoteric to fundamentalism…its all part of the game I guess...have fun!

[PJS]

Now that is a Jehovah response that I have experienced before…very fundamentalist…you still are very kabalistic…even when trying to ‘derail’ observers…wavering from esoteric to fundamentalism…its all part of the game I guess...have fun!

You are disappointed because I believe that people became imperfect at Jehovah's hand?

People were perfect. Not subject to death. The only thing to cause death that was mentioned to Adam as a direct Order from Jehovah was not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. If you do then in the day you eat from it you will die. And in God's eyes 1 day is as if 1000 years. Adam lived 930 years.

It may be that it would take Jehovah to now say the test is over you can now eat from the tree that I previously told you not to eat from. So should the Word have given the blessing as God then he may have gone further than Jehovah the Father had intended.

Therefore eating of the fruit makes the Word an independent speaker and an unintentional man slayer because man still sinned against the direct Order of Jehovah by eating of the forbidden fruit. Then Jehovah kept His word to Adam by sentencing Adam to return to the dust from which he had been made. Consequently the Word would have to come in the flesh as a mortal man to die for justice sake if this is the case.

Since Adam and Eve had no children when they were not subject to death all they could do now is bring children into a dieing condition when they had them. This means the children would be imperfect or subject to death.

Jehovah's Witnesses currently teach that Adam and his wife were rebellious disobedient sinners and will not receive a resurrection. But eating from the special fruit tree may not have totally been their fault in that they listened to somebody else about Gen. 1:29.
In that way what was their sin? They are victims of circumstance and may possibly be in line for life again because Christ died a perfect man and provided the means of a ransom in exchange for many.

Adam and his wife were blessed to become many as perfect people in Genesis 1:28. However they did become part of many but as those subject to death. Christ Jesus died for many. One would naturally think that our original father and mother (Adam and Eve) would be among those to live again as part of the "many".