What God is is a Title? Then who is God? Options

[P.j.S]

Inquiring minds want to know just that, "Who is God?"!
Like the use of the title God found in the text of Genesis 1:28-29 for example.

A Personal Advisory with you in mind:
Psalm 83:18 using God's Holy Word found in the Bible

If this is the first Scripture or even the last Scripture that you have read in a Bible lately...
Does it name the Person of God as Jehovah?
Is this Person God really or is there some other than the LORD to be found finally named as God?

Study Aids and Reasonable Solutions to your Bible Questions provided below.
Many a Mother Tongue to choose from with a current translation of the Bible at the ready.
A useful Bible found here: http://watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm

Newly featured articles about every week or so for your convenience.
Please feel free to click on the link for yourself, to help you further satisfy an appetite involving spiritual hunger & thirst that needs to be met with soon.

http://www.watchtower.org/ ANNOUNCING JEHOVAH'S KINGDOM

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20953&st=120 Please consider Post 125 as well.

Last Edited: August 1/2011

[Joesus]

Psalm 83:18 found in God's Word the Bible

From the Aramaic translation

Psalm 83:
18. That men may know that thou, whose name alone is the Lord, art the most high over all earth.

From Young's Literal Translation
Psalm 83:
18 And they know that Thou -- (Thy name `is' [Jehovah -- by Thyself],) `Art' the Most High over all the earth!

[P.j.S]

Psalm 83:18 found in God's Word the Bible

From the Aramaic translation

Psalm 83:
18. That men may know that thou, whose name alone is the Lord, art the most high over all earth.

From Young's Literal Translation
Psalm 83:
18 And they know that Thou -- (Thy name `is' [Jehovah -- by Thyself],) `Art' the Most High over all the earth!

Wow! God's name inserted with another title LORD oops that isn't even "lord" in all capital letters in Psalm 83:18.

I really don't understand why this is being done. How about if some poor mailman tried to deliver personal mail that just said To:Man or To:Woman or To:Child! He wouldn't know which house to give it to.

Christ Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Now the Lord of Ps.83:18 is somehow subordinate to His own son by this line of reasoning. Such a twisting of Scripture is not good. The proper name Jehovah should be put back in its proper places it logicly seems.

[Joesus]

Wow! God's name inserted with another title LORD oops that isn't even "lord" in all capital letters in Psalm 83:18.

Just goes to show that God doesn't need a title unless one decides to make God something other than it is, such as a title.

I really don't understand why this is being done. How about if some poor mailman tried to deliver personal mail that just said To:Man or To:Woman or To:Child! He wouldn't know which house to give it to.

And if there are a thousand different names for God it might be confusing for someone to recognize a God with a different name and could cause friction, animosity and even war amongst the superstitious who must have it their own way.

Christ Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Now the Lord of Ps.83:18 is somehow subordinate to His own son by this line of reasoning. Such a twisting of Scripture is not good. The proper name Jehovah should be put back in its proper places it logicly seems.

Or if one learns of the reality of Christ consciousness as being the True Son of God, and that it lives in everyone the idea of Lord comes to greater comprehension and to manifest as a Universal and a viable experience.
Jn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Unfortunately scripture has been twisted enough by those who have translated the original scripts written in Hebrew and Aramaic to further elude the words which Jesus said were for those who have the ears to hear, meaning those who were awakened to the God within or the Christ within.

JESUS, THE CHRIST

THE period of history that began with the first century B.C. and ended with the year 414 A.D. was an important one for the Western world. During those five hundred years certain causes were set in motion, the effects of which we are still feeling at the present day and will continue to feel for some time to come. This period of history should be carefully studied by every one calling himself a Christian. For it contains not only the life record of Jesus, but also the story of a Church that grew, in that comparatively short space of time, from a single individual to a powerful political organization. It is of equal importance to the Theosophist, for it witnessed the beginning, the growth and the final destruction of one of the greatest Theosophical Schools in history, marked the death of the Mysteries, and sealed the doom of the old religions, sciences and philosophies for many centuries.

In the first century B.C., the Theosophical Movement and Christianity were one, Jesus the Christ being a great Theosophist, and the work he tried to accomplish forming part of the program of the Theosophical Movement. But from the first century A.D. onwards, the Theosophical Movement and Christianity gradually separated; in the year 414 A.D. the work of the Theosophical Movement of that day was destroyed by the Church that called itself Christian.

In trying to find the causes that led up to this catastrophe, the Theosophical Movement and Christianity must be studied side by side. This study will be as fair and impartial as it is possible to make it, and each side will be allowed to present its own case. The story of the Church will be taken from Catholic historians and from the writings of the early Church Fathers themselves. The story of the Theosophical Movement will be drawn from the best historical sources available, and the teachings of the great Theosophists of the period will be presented in their own words. Direct quotations from the different writers will be given, and the motto used will be that of the Theosophical Society: There is no Religion higher than Truth.

There are many persons, even in this enlightened day, who consider Christianity as a unique religion, the Bible as the only revelation of God, and Jesus Christ as His only-begotten Son. If this were true, it would mean that, during all the vast procession of the ages, there has been only one expression of Truth. But Truth, as every thinking person will admit, is universal, and could not have been limited to a single expression. Even if it had been so limited, this fact would not enhance its value. The fact that two and two make four is none the less important because the whole world knows it.

If Christianity is an expression of universal Truth, it will gain, rather than lose, by a recognition of its identity with other expressions of the same truth. If the Bible is a revelation of God, its truth will become more apparent if it is found to agree with other "revelations." If Jesus was a "Son of God", his position will become still more secure when he is recognized as a member of a great Fraternity of Perfected Men, all of whom have presented identical doctrines.

The study of the history of these five centuries will disclose an important fact: that there is nothing unique in Christianity. It will show that Jesus was not a unique character, but only one of a long line of Teachers. It will show that the Bible is not a unique book, but only one of the many Scriptures of the world. It will show that there is not a single dogma, ritual nor ceremony in the Christian Church that has not been taken bodily from the so-called "Pagan" religions. Finally it will show that not even the term Christian is unique.

Many persons believe that Christianity has been in existence for only two thousand years. But history shows that the terms Christ and Christians were well known to writers like Herodotus and Aeschylus fully five centuries before the "Christian" era, and were simply borrowed by the later "Christians" from the Temple terminology of the Pagans. The early Church knew this to be a fact, for it is openly admitted by no less an authority than Justin Martyr, one of the foremost Christian writers of the second century.

The terms Chrestos and Christos came from the Mysteries. There the word Chrestos was used to designate a disciple on probation, a neophyte, one who was preparing himself for initiation into the Mysteries. When the candidate had passed through the Chrestos condition, or the probationary period, and had finally reached the state of an Initiate, he was anointed and became a Christos.

The word Christos also meant the "Way" or the "Path." When the Chrestos addressed his Master, he said: "Thou art the Path." After the disciple had been initiated himself, the same words were repeated to him by his Teacher. "I am the Way", said Jesus, after he had become a Christos. "Thou canst not travel on the Path until thou hast become that Path itself," says the Voice of the Silence. And H. P. Blavatsky reiterated the same idea when she said to her pupils: "Do not follow me; follow the Path I show," meaning by that: "Do not follow my personality; follow the Christos-principle within yourselves, the only 'Light on the Path' that really exists."

Christos, or Christ, is therefore not a special title belonging to any one individual, but is a state or condition, the last stage in the long series of progressive awakenings of the soul. The Christos, or Christ-principle, lies latent within every man. Jesus had completely awakened this principle in himself. Therefore he is known as Jesus, the Christ.

As far as secular history goes, there seems to be no accurate record of Jesus. If he lived in the first century A.D. we would naturally expect to find references to him in the works of the great historians of that century. But Philo Judaeus, who lived in Palestine during the very years that Jesus is supposed to have been teaching there, never mentions him, and Josephus disposes of his whole career in one short sentence. Even that sentence, which is interpolated between incongruous paragraphs in one of the works of Josephus, (Antiquities of the Jews: Book xviii, chapter 3) is considered by scholars as spurious and a palpable forgery.

The second century offers little more. Neither Plutarch nor Dion Cassius, the two great historians of this century, refer to him. Suetonius, in his Life of the Twelve Caesars, speaks of the Jews that were banished from Rome during the reign of the Emperor Claudius because of the disturbances they were making at the instigation of one Chrestos. But as Jesus is supposed to have been in Jerusalem at that time, he could not have been the Chrestos to whom Suetonius refers. The Emperor Hadrian, also writing in the second century, does not mention Jesus, but speaks of the Christians, calling them worshippers of Serapis. This is because the Christians of that day, having no image or picture of Jesus to remind them of their Teacher, adopted the image of Serapis, who was always represented with long hair and wearing a garment reaching to his feet. The image of Jesus with which we are familiar at the present day is this same likeness of Serapis.

The ecclesiastical history of Jesus is quite as disappointing as the secular. Up to the year 180 A.D. none of the Christian writers seem to have known when Jesus was born, how long he taught or when he died. Some claim that he taught only one year, others extend the term of his ministry to ten and even twenty years. During the latter years of the second century an altercation took place between a man called Ptolamaeus, and Irenaeus, one of the foremost Church Fathers. Ptolemaeus argued that Jesus was too young to have given out anything of importance. Irenaeus rebuked him and accused him of

"Destroying Christ's work, and robbing him of that age which is both necessary and more honorable than any other; the more advanced age, I mean, during which, also, he excelled all others."

And then, having no certain data to furnish, he throws himself back on tradition and claims that Jesus had preached ten years, and that he was at least fifty years old at his death.

With such a lack of accurate historical data and such disagreement among the Christians, it is evident that we must look elsewhere for more dependable information. As Jesus and his twelve disciples are said to have been Jews, it is possible that Jewish history may be more correct than Christian.

One statement, which is commonly accepted by historians, and which furthermore, has the backing of actual history, is found in the Jewish Gemara, the section called Sepher Toldos Jeshu. In this story, Jesus is said to have been the son of a man named Pandira, who lived in the first century B.C. during the reign of King Alexander Janneus. Ernst Haeckel, in his Riddle of the Universe, finds in this story the solution of Jesus' non-Jewish characteristics. Mr. Haeckel says:

"The statement of the apocryphal gospels that Pandira was the true father of Christ seems all the more credible when we make a careful anthropological study of the personality of Christ. He is generally regarded as pure Jewish. Yet the characteristics which distinguish his high and noble personality, and which give impress to his religion, are certainly not Semitical. Now the name of Christ's real father, Pandira, points unequivocally to a Greek origin; in one manuscript, in fact, it is written Pandora."

The Sepher Toldos Jeshu corroborates the apocryphal statements in regard to Jesus' Greek paternity, and describes the years of his early youth:

"Mary, having become the mother of a son, named Jehoshuah, and the boy growing up, she entrusted him to the care of the Rabbi Elhanan. And the child progressed in knowledge, for he was well gifted with spirit and understanding. Rabbi Jehoshuah, son of Perachiah, continued the education of Jesus after Elhanan, and initiated him into the secret knowledge. But the King Janneus, having given orders to slay all the Initiates, Jehoshuah Ben Perachiah fled to Alexandria, in Egypt, taking the boy with him."

Then follows a series of adventures which show that Jesus supplemented his initiation into the secret wisdom of the Jews with an additional acquisition of the secret knowledge of Egypt.

Two points stand out in this old story. The first is that Jesus lived during the reign of King Alexander Janneus, which was in the early years of the first century B.C. It is a matter of history that King Janneus actually did persecute and slay hundreds of Initiates, who in those days were called "Innocents", "Infants" and "Little Ones". But the reign of Herod, in which Jesus is supposed to have lived, contains no record of such a massacre.

The second point is that Jesus was initiated into the Mysteries of the Jewish Temple in his early youth, and later went to Egypt, where he was initiated into the Egyptian Mysteries. These two points are corroborated by the Masters and by H.P.B. She says:

"The position THEY give to Jesus, as far as we know, is that of an Initiate who recognized no difference -- save the moral one -- between men; who rejected caste and despised wealth; and who, finally, lived a century before our vulgar, so-called Christian era."

Jesus is constantly referred to as an Initiate in Theosophical literature. H.P.B. says: "Let the world judge Jesus for what he was -- a Mahatma, a Perfected Man." And Mr. Judge, in the Ocean of Theosophy, describes him as an Avatar, a member of the great Fraternity of Adepts. If he was a true Initiate, as these words imply, and a member of that great Brotherhood which is the custodian of the Wisdom-Religion, then he must have taught the same Theosophical principles that we study today. For, as H.P.B. says,

...if he was an initiate of either the Pythagorean Essenes, the Chaldean Magi, or the Egyptian Priests, then the doctrine taught by him was but a portion of the "Secret Doctrine" taught by the Pagan hierophants to the few select adepts admitted within the sacred adyta. --Isis Unveiled II, 94.

These words give a clear indication of the places where Jesus gained his knowledge and received his initiation. It must have been among the Pythagorean Essenes (who were the descendants of the Egyptian Hierophants) or among the Nazarenes (who were the descendants of the Chaldean Magi). He must have supplemented his knowledge of the ancient Egyptian and Chaldean systems with that acquired through the study of the Pythagorean and Buddhistic philosophies, for:

1, all his sayings are in a Pythagorean spirit, when not verbatim repetitions; 2, his code of ethics is purely Buddhistic; 3, his mode of action and walk in life, Essenian; and 4, his mystical mode of expression, his parables, and his ways, those of an initiate, whether Grecian, Chaldean or Magian (for the "Perfect," who spoke the hidden wisdom, were of the same school of archaic learning the world over), it is difficult to escape from the logical conclusion that he belonged to that same body of initiates. --Isis Unveiled, II, 337.

Let us go back in thought and try to reconstruct those years of Jesus' life, when his mode of action and walk in life became Essenian. We remember that, after the persecution of the Initiates by King Janneus, Jesus and his teacher Rabbi Jehoshuah fled to Alexandria in Egypt. It would be interesting to know what sort of an impression this great cosmopolitan city made upon the young man. He must have been astonished at the magnificent Palace of the Ptolemies and the grandeur of the Museum and its gardens. He must have watched the galleys riding upon the blue waters in the shadow of the great lighthouse of Pharos and wondered about the strange countries from which they came. He must have gone out into the western quarter of the city and climbed the rocky hill that led to the Temple of Serapis, whose image was one day to be substituted for his own. He must have visited the great library of the Bruckion and examined some of its seven hundred thousand scrolls. He must have met some of the learned Jews who, like himself, had been initiated into the mysteries of the Kabala. But fascinating as the great city of Alexandria must have been, it did not hold the secrets that Jesus came to Egypt to garner.

Just south of the city of Alexandria there lived a community of men and women known as the Therapeutae. They formed an inner group within Alexandrian Judaism, an esoteric circle of illuminati, or wise men. Jesus' knowledge of healing and the many "miraculous" cures attributed to him point to the fact that he must at one time have been a member of this community. They were the true mystics of that day, and Christianity is indebted to them for many of its mystical expressions.

The main object of Jesus' stay in Egypt was, however, to gain a knowledge of the Egyptian philosophical system, which could be acquired only through initiation into the Egyptian Mysteries. These secrets were held by the descendants of the ancient Egyptian Hierophants, the Essenes, one group of which was known as the Konoibi. Jesus established connection with this group, and it is probably through them that he was eventually initiated into the secret wisdom of Egypt. Where this initiation took place it is impossible to say. The true Initiate does not speak of these sacred matters to the world at large. But, considering the connection of the Essenes with the ancient Egyptian Hierophants, it is highly probable that Jesus passed his final initiation within the sacred precincts of the great Pyramid of Gizeh, whose walls had often witnessed the initiation scenes of different members of the royal families of ancient Egypt.

The great Pyramid of Gizeh (now called Cheops) stands upon a low hill overlooking the yellow sands of the vast Libyan desert. Within it is a narrow passage leading up to the King's Chamber, as it is now called, but which in olden days was the Holy of Holies, or Chamber of Initiation. At the top of this passage is a narrow gate that leads directly into the initiation chamber. Did Jesus himself climb this very passage and go through this "strait gate" on the day of his initiation? What else did H.P.B. mean when she said:

...the narrow upward passage leading to the King's Chamber had a "narrow gate" indeed; the same "strait gate" which "leadeth unto life," or the new spiritual rebirth alluded to by Jesus in Matthew vii. 13 et. seq.; and that it is this gate in the Initiation temple, that the writer who recorded the words alleged to have been spoken by an Initiate, was thinking of. --Secret Doctrine I, 318, footnote.

Having passed through the "strait gate that leadeth unto life", the neophyte entered the Holy of Holies. On one side of this chamber there stands a great porphyry sarcophagus. This was the Baptismal Font, upon emerging from which the neophyte was "born again". At the time of his initiation, the candidate was attached to a couch in the form of a cross and plunged into a deep sleep. He remained in that condition for three days and nights, during which time his spiritual Ego is said to have "ascended into Heaven and descended into Hell," while his entranced body remained within the sarcophagus. On the night before the third day he was carried to the entrance of a gallery, where at a certain hour the beams of the sun struck him full in the face and he awoke to be initiated.

In this story of initiation, we find the source from which the Christian Church drew the Apostles' Creed as well as the rite of Baptism and the story of the Crucifixion. Whether Jesus went through this rite within the Egyptian Pyramid or in the river Jordan, the idea is the same. The New Testament does not mention his initiation into the Egyptian Mysteries, but the Gospel of Matthew records his later initiation:

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon him."

Jesus' crucifixion on the Cross of Calvary may, or may not have been an actual fact. The method by which an Initiate loses his physical body is of little consequence to him. But the "Cross of Calvary" which was always laid upon the breast of the Initiate after his new birth was of vital importance to him as well as to the world at large. For it spoke of the regenerated man who had crucified the man of flesh, and proclaimed to the world:

If one gives some attention to the Christian religion from differing points of view such as from Hindu or Vedic Eastern Scripture, Buddhist Scripture, as well as Gnostic interpretations the similarities to the Title Of Christ and of God is very revealing.

Unfortunately those who are stuck in one way of thought idealize what they have been told, rather than to achieve a direct experience of what Scripture points to in regard to Universal mind and Christ Consciousness. It is this superstitious belief that separates humanity into social mores and scientific beliefs based on prejudice and ideology rather than facts that tie all names of God to its True essence, within all beliefs and delusions of reality.

[P.j.S]

I believe that I just experienced a Thesis of some sort. You reflect a well educated tongue I must say.

There was once only One True God our Creator and Life Giver and Sustainer Jehovah God fore Jehovah God created Adam. After Eve named Seth there came to be a calling on the name of Jehovah the Genesis account reveals. Not necessarily in pleasant ways either.

In Nimrod's time Jehovah confused people by giving them many different tongues so that the tower project would be spoiled and people would be forced to dispurse and populate the earth as originally directed instead of congregating into larger communities like cities doing bad things with a unified Hebrew tongue.

In the confusion God's name may have changed in acceptable or unacceptable ways among people. Also in dealing now with false gods victorious and glorifying titles came to be revealed in God's Word about Himself still referring to Jehovah God like "Jehovah of Armies" for example.

People of the nations were now mostly alienated from a more pleasing spiritual way of life in God's opinion. Consequently God chose Abraham to bring forth a special possession of people from which the True Messiah or Christ would come in time. And we should not forget about Job an Oriental individual well mentioned in the Bible because of his loving generosity toward orphans and widows and who kept integrity to God in very troublesome times for him.

Even though Moses was a Christ and Mediator between God and Man he did not receive an assignment to announce God's Kingdom from door to door. Instead Christ Jesus was unique in initiating that and assigning 70 others to preform that work by twos, that even proliferated in number once the Apostles had to bear the work under grievious personal circumstances from the time of Christ's prophesied death particularly and most understandably and onward from there.

Educating individuals from door to door extended to people of the nations as well. The work of informing others that the Kingdom of God had drawn near was commissioned upon the one who came to be known as the Apostle Paul. Personally attended to by the ressurrected Jesus Christ himself. And others whom the Apostle Paul invited and influenced took the work upon themselves too. Not just the Jews alone but also now people of surrounding territories.

Jesus would only teach when he had an illustration to share as well. Christ Jesus taught the disciples that he would be leaving and entrusted his possessions (spiritual interests) in the care of others while he was gone. Also he told them that he would be with them all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. Historically in 70 C.E. the temple was destroyed by the Romans near the end of the favored Apostalic period. When the last of such ones died the preaching work from door to door virtually came to a stop.

Once again at the end of the Gentile Times that started in 607 B.C.E when Babylon first dominated God's people until 1914 C.E which was the end of the prophetic time period pointed out by Daniel the prophet. One of the signs that the Kingdom of God had begun ruling officially amid God's enemies was the fact that the door to door preaching work by lovers of God's Kingdom prospects had started up again. This congregation of servants of God strive to adhere as closely as possible to the original administration of Christian affairs while yet only being ordinary people themselves of course.

Jesus said that he would be with those with the preaching assignment of his until the conclusion of the system of things. He prophesied frequent earthquakes near the time of the final end of wickedness himself when alive as a perfect man on earth. We know that he controlled the elements when he was a man before too and now we can have the faith that he can even halt earthquakes altogether since he is the Reigning King of God's Kingdom ruling from the Heavens. From that vantage point all mankind's present woes will be manageable for him bringing awesome relief for all the people at hand at that time to experience some of the joy that Christ Jesus endured the torture stake for in the year 33 of the first century C.E.

Peter

[Joesus]

There was once only One True God our Creator and Life Giver and Sustainer Jehovah God fore Jehovah God created Adam. After Eve named Seth there came to be a calling on the name of Jehovah the Genesis account reveals. Not necessarily in pleasant ways either.

Copied from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah
Jehovah (pronounced /dʒɨˈhoʊvə/) is an English reading of יְהֹוָה, the most frequent form of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (transliterated as YHWH), the principal and personal name of God in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).

It is a direct phonetic transliteration based on the Hebrew Bible text with vowel points handed down by the Masoretes. By long tradition, in modern Jewish culture the Tetragrammaton is not pronounced. Instead the above vocalization indicates to the reverent Jewish reader that the term Adonai is to be used. Where it precedes or follows the word Adonai, the reading Elohim is used instead, indicated by a different vocalization of the Tetragrammaton.[1] It is generally considered, in line with the Jewish tradition, that יְהֹוָה (Jehovah) is a "hybrid form".[2]

Some sources question the received view that the vowels of Jehovah originate with the word Adonai rather than an ancient pronunciation of YHWH. They note that details of vocalization differ between the various early extant manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible, that the vowel points of Jehovah and Adonai are not identical, and that scholars are not in total agreement as to why the Masoretes did not use the precise vowel points of Adonai.

Early English translators, thought to have been unacquainted with Jewish tradition, read this word as they would any other word, and transcribed it as Jehovah.

The form thus achieved wide currency in the translations of the Protestant Reformation,[3] though it was already in use by Roman Catholic authors. It is the regular English rendition of יהוה in the American Standard Version,[4] and occurs seven times in the King James Version.[5] It is also used in Christian hymns such as "Guide Me, O Thou Great Jehovah".[6]

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Jehovah is "the proper name of God in the Old Testament."[7] The name Jehovah is widely used by Jehovah's Witnesses as the personal name of God, although the religion recognizes and encourages the use of equivalent names in other languages.[8][9][10] Witnesses do not believe that Jehovah is the original pronunciation of the Name, but rather that Jehovah is a commonly used, faithfully translated form of the original Hebrew Name.[11][12]

A name does not imply an ownership nor does a transcript imply fact. It does imply that there is a story to be conveyed and if one isolates ones self to a belief in one religion it is not likely that isolation has allowed much experience in deciphering the differences between relative and subjective Truth and Absolute, or Universal Truth.
Adam and eve are subjective aphorisms to a greater story of the male and female within the human nervous system or world tree, as well as the subjective and objective differences between the male unmanifest absolute One, and the female side, manifestations of the Father (male), which is the Son of God within the Female, or manifest reality.

In Nimrod's time Jehovah confused people by giving them many different tongues so that the tower project would be spoiled and people would be forced to dispurse and populate the earth as originally directed instead of congregating into larger communities like cities doing bad things with a unified Hebrew tongue.

This sounds alot like the Jealous God of the Christians. A God with intention to create chaos leaving his children to struggle in sin on account of Gods plan. Such superstition is not exactly intelligent. Nor does it lift the hearts of people to know that it is because of God that suffering exists and that they are subject to action outside of themselves with no hope but to depend on some idea that God will change and give them reprieve from Gods created suffering.

In the confusion God's name may have changed in acceptable or unacceptable ways among people. Also in dealing now with false gods victorious and glorifying titles came to be revealed in God's Word about Himself still referring to Jehovah God like "Jehovah of Armies" for example.

Acceptability being Gods exception, being that man who was created as confused by God, (confusion to be the foundation of intellectual understanding in Man).

People of the nations were now mostly alienated from a more pleasing spiritual way of life in God's opinion.

As a result of God or as you put it: In Nimrod's time Jehovah confused people by giving them many different tongues so that the tower project would be spoiled and people would be forced to dispurse and populate the earth as originally directed instead of congregating into larger communities like cities doing bad things with a unified Hebrew tongue.

Consequently God chose Abraham to bring forth a special possession of people from which the True Messiah or Christ would come in time. And we should not forget about Job an Oriental individual well mentioned in the Bible because of his loving generosity toward orphans and widows and who kept integrity to God in very troublesome times for him.

Forget about Job and lets get back to a God that creates confusion in man so that man cannot keep with any integrity with God because they have been designed to be As God designed them to be. How is this out of integrity with God? And why does God create Abraham to change what God created and to design a messiah to save the people whom God created confused and in need of saving?

Even though Moses was a Christ and Mediator between God and Man he did not receive an assignment to announce God's Kingdom from door to door. Instead Christ Jesus was unique in initiating that and assigning 70 others to preform that work by twos, that even proliferated in number once the Apostles had to bear the work under grievious personal circumstances from the time of Christ's prophesied death particularly and most understandably and onward from there.

Christ was no more unique than Machiventa Melchizedek who appeared on earth 2000 years before Christ Jesus, who also preached the same gospel as Jesus, performed miracles such as controlling the elements and raising the dead. There has been throughout time many Christs who walk the earth giving the same message to the people that God did not create suffering and confusion in man but free will which allows man to create confusion in and amongst the beliefs in what God is and what God is called.
40 years Moses struggled with an idea of how to isolate God within as a name and a concept on the outside of himself, and when the story is told of his visit with God on the spiritual mountain of self inquiry God spoke to him and says to him. "Tell your people I am that I am, or that I am becoming." Yet poor Moses never quite grasped the concept of God being within and so he died in the desert of inadequate understanding and comprehension regardless of his faith in something he could not contain in a name or an intellectual concept. Moses lived by rules as do most religionists and Jesus spent much time doing damage control over the delusions of God having control over free will and being a Jealous or wrathful creator of imperfection only to leave man waiting for God to bring perfection back to imperfection.

Educating individuals from door to door extended to people of the nations as well. The work of informing others that the Kingdom of God had drawn near was commissioned upon the one who came to be known as the Apostle Paul. Personally attended to by the ressurrected Jesus Christ himself. And others whom the Apostle Paul invited and influenced took the work upon themselves too. Not just the Jews alone but also now people of surrounding territories.

Paul was not commissioned to take any task on personally nor was Jesus to have any specific task to complete. Jesus simply lived the Truth and as such had sufficiently taught Paul to know god within and stated upon this rock or stability will the church be built. Meaning that anyone who could sufficiently know God within as was taught by Jesus his teacher to Peter his disciple, would know and live in accord with the foundation of all life, the Church or Temple of God which is the soul or mirror of the absolute One Consciousness and creator of all things. Paul is often thought of as the creator of religion or the Church of instruction. Jesus spent lifetimes perfecting himself and the bible even mentions his previous incarnation as Elisha student of Elijah (John the Baptist) who lived a life previous to his incarnation as Jesus performing miracles as he did 2000 years ago. The idea that Heaven had been brought closer is a misnomer. Heaven resides within all peoples and has always been, it is only separated by a belief in God being separate from man as a thing, or an object, or a "He" or a "Him" a something or nothing that exists outside of man. A God named Jehovah who creates confusion in man rather than Unity and Love.

Jesus would only teach when he had an illustration to share as well. Christ Jesus taught the disciples that he would be leaving and entrusted his possessions (spiritual interests) in the care of others while he was gone. Also he told them that he would be with them all the days until the conclusion of the system of things. Historically in 70 C.E. the temple was destroyed by the Romans near the end of the favored Apostalic period. When the last of such ones died the preaching work from door to door virtually came to a stop.

No it never stopped. Tho all of the disciples except for John were eventually killed the Teachings of Christ have been in steady review in and amongst the different nations of the world. You can find them in virtually every beginning of every religion and in the scriptures that preceded every messiah. The teaching did not begin with Jesus the Christ, they have existed since the dawn of humanity. People just get stuck on one iconic figure within one point in history that is glorified under some idealistic relative belief in a language and a name.

Once again at the end of the Gentile Times that started in 607 B.C.E when Babylon first dominated God's people until 1914 C.E which was the end of the prophetic time period pointed out by Daniel the prophet. One of the signs that the Kingdom of God had begun ruling officially amid God's enemies was the fact that the door to door preaching work by lovers of God's Kingdom prospects had started up again. This congregation of servants of God strive to adhere as closely as possible to the original administration of Christian affairs while yet only being ordinary people themselves of course.

Started up again implies that the Kingdom of God was never lost nor was it being originally created or realized. Only that it was being restored where it had once been abandoned. If you look into the vedic scripture which describes the Universal Seasons of transition you would see that this coincides with the transitional rise and fall of God awareness in humanity which occurs like the seasonal changes of the earth.
Ref:Yuga (Devanāgari: युग) in Hindu philosophy is the name of an 'epoch' or 'era' within a cycle of four ages. These are the Satya Yuga (or Krita Yuga), the Treta Yuga, the Dvapara Yuga and finally the Kali Yuga. According to Hindu cosmology, the world is created, destroyed and recreated every 4,320,000 years (Maha Yuga) [1]. The cycles are said to repeat like the seasons, waxing and waning within a greater time-cycle of the creation and destruction of the universe. Like Summer, Spring, Winter and Autumn, each yuga involves stages or gradual changes which the earth and the consciousness of mankind goes through as a whole. A complete yuga cycle from a high Golden Age of enlightenment to a Dark Age and back again is said to be caused by the solar system's motion around a central sun.

Jesus said that he would be with those with the preaching assignment of his until the conclusion of the system of things. He prophesied frequent earthquakes near the time of the final end of wickedness himself when alive as a perfect man on earth. We know that he controlled the elements when he was a man before too and now we can have the faith that he can even halt earthquakes altogether since he is the Reigning King of God's Kingdom ruling from the Heavens. From that vantage point all mankind's present woes will be manageable for him bringing awesome relief for all the people at hand at that time to experience some of the joy that Christ Jesus endured the torture stake for in the year 33 of the first century C.E.

Peter

You don't take this literally to be the second coming do You? The idea that someone will circumvent free will to intervene the natural course of evolution of man and his ability to know God by forcing God into mans awareness and consciousness by stopping the cause and effect created from ignorance and stupidity?

[P.j.S]

The parousia.

[Joesus]

The parousia.

Which can refer to Christ consciousness, or the awakening in the individual as in enlightenment the awareness of Heaven and God within.
Or taken literally in superstitious belief to mean the reappearance of a man such as Jesus the Christ, to come and change the world by removing the obstacles to happiness, such as in the prophesied beliefs of the Jews in the idea of Jesus being the KING to remove the Roman empire from the Seat of the Throne, that somehow was not removed when he was there the first time he came 2000 years ago.

(as the saying goes..third time is always a charm... .. )

[Lindsay]

Feel free to click on the link for yourself to help further satisfy your spiritual appetite.

http://www.watchtower.org/

P.j.S, thanks for this information. With interest, I will read SOME of what you and J_esus have to say to one another.
G0D and l0ve be with both of you!!!!

[P.j.S]

Lindsay. That is really nice that you feel that way. It really is meant to accommodate the individual's personal tastes and time budget allotment.

Joesus. Christ Jesus willfully allowed himself to be killed by people once. He doesn't have to do that twice or so much as a charming third time. Love builds up. Knowledge puffs up. God wants people to worship in Spirit and Truth not just truth. Do you know what I mean?

[Joesus]

Joesus. Christ Jesus willfully allowed himself to be killed by people once. He doesn't have to do that twice or so much as a charming third time. Love builds up. Knowledge puffs up. God wants people to worship in Spirit and Truth not just truth. Do you know what I mean?

Jesus willfully demonstrated that the spirit is what is real and not the flesh.
God has no wants, otherwise God would be without something and would be in need. In spirit there is communion with all that is. So God does not feel that man is separate from God with a need to be worshipped or recognized. That is mans trip.

Do you know what I mean?

[P.j.S]

Joesus. Christ Jesus willfully allowed himself to be killed by people once. He doesn't have to do that twice or so much as a charming third time. Love builds up. Knowledge puffs up. God wants people to worship in Spirit and Truth not just truth. Do you know what I mean?

Jesus willfully demonstrated that the spirit is what is real and not the flesh.
God has no wants, otherwise God would be without something and would be in need. In spirit there is communion with all that is. So God does not feel that man is separate from God with a need to be worshipped or recognized. That is mans trip.

Do you know what I mean?

Truth is knowledge. So? There is a carnal knowledge of sin too. But, Truth without spirit is dry, arid and parched. Little will grow there by itself. The Spirit adds life to. Zeal. Desire for others to live well. Yearning. Tact and words well seasoned with salt. Palatable. A true Source of encouragement and motivation to do good to others and receiving righteous satisfying benefits for self as a by-product of good deeds done for others.

Yes I believe that I do know what you mean. Please consider carefully though...

At one time before Babylon's defeat by Cyrus and the Medo-Persian Empire the Kingdom was weighed in God's Scales and found wanting. How much more so this degraded world so alienated from God is found wanting too in God's scales Today. When mankind finds themselves living at the the time of the feet of the Image that the Babylonian King dreamed about. When the Stone would strike the feet of that Image and the Drophet Daniel reveals weighty meaning for us about these matters of God in our time period. It is all so very interesting...

What is the real thing to be happy about? "Boy I'm some glad to be a bad Babylonian soldier who is going to lose my life tonight." Hardly! Do you miss the purpose of Bible truth Joesus? It is to warn us about how God feels about us when we are alive and what actions are we taking to demonstrate that we love God primariy with our own life. You know. Our own God fearing relationship with the One who can take away our life. That is not mere superstition.

God wrote about how He felt about others in Bible times and dealt with them so that we living now, while the Bible is still preserved well, can accurately learn about Him and what He is capable of.

Are we asleep some how now? I hope not for all our sakes. Our own life is directly involved.

The real question for individuals to ask themselves then, including myself, is "What sort of person am I in deeds of Godly devotion? What am I doing to encougage my fellowman to be a better person with the Spirit and Truth that I have learned and am experienced with? Fore, if I don't know how to live in a more proper God-fearing way of life myself, then I would be a hypocrite for trying to pull the rafter out of someone else's eye, by just telling them that "This is what I Think that they should do!".

Frankly Joesus, you have your formal factual education. How does that help you be a better example to others, so that with a better comprehension you can help yourself more fully as well? Tell me please if you want too.

You see if I say "I follow the Ten Commandments." If another says, "I follow the Golden Rule." Here is just two examples of someone trying to live a good life by, showing their example in their life, day to day.

Whoop de do!! There are other people who don't claim to worship God who try to live a good life too! Something more is needed.

The point is, then that, a person who is really striving to be "good" in God's eyes would be prostrating themselves in prayer to God, sighing and crying, so to speak, over all the detestable things going on around him in such a sad world. Such fellow feeling for God requires close fervent prayers to Him. There is a need then to know His name "Jehovah" to do that in a friendlier manner.

If Jehovah God's Kingdom is Ruling by Christ Jesus now amid His enemies do you not think that these enemies would want Jehovah's name removed from the Bible so that common people can't learn it or call on Him more closely? That is a current Spiritual Warfare tactic in use today.

Why not look for a Bible that has God's name in it and study what is happening to the people trying to learn from it and live the way Christ Jesus taught and recommended for his foot-step followers to live.

Preach from door to door reasonably when able to in an orderly organized way as already successfully directed and only worry about Life's anxieties one day at a time. In such Critical Last Days of such Times hard to deal with this proves to be invaluable advice.

Such ones already doing so are praying to Jehovah about supplying more happy and joyful workers to the Harvest too!

Enter the Joy of the Master. The Reigning King of God's Messianic Kingdom, Christ Jesus. Matthew 24:14

[Joesus]

Truth is knowledge. So?

Truth can be experienced and experience is superior to knowledge.

There is a carnal knowledge of sin too. But, Truth without spirit is dry, arid and parched. Little will grow there by itself. The Spirit adds life to. Zeal. Desire for others to live well. Yearning.

Fear creates projection, fanaticism appears like zeal and the desire for others to act in accord to ones belief a need of the ego to substantiate ones personal truth and idealism

Tact and words well seasoned with salt. Palatable. A true Source of encouragement and motivation to do good to others and receiving righteous satisfying benefits for self as a by-product of good deeds done for others.

A fully realized man is not satisfied by the works of others but by being filled with spirit and in perfect surrender gives away what he has to those who are ready to receive it without anticipation and anxiety of rejection. Love unconditional is extended from the fully realized man to even those who chose to turn away from spirit in the knowledge and experience that their time is coming as they are capable of receiving, which allows for understanding and compassion, such as is given to the child who is learning to walk. There is no rush to make the child grow and learn only guidance and love.

Yes I believe that I do know what you mean. Please consider carefully though...

So far you show no indication of grasping other than your belief in your religion.

At one time before Babylon's defeat by Cyrus and the Medo-Persian Empire the Kingdom was weighed in God's Scales and found wanting.

The world is ever filled with ripening fruit and the tree will bear it through cycles of flowering on fertile ground for fruit bear, giving fruit that is ripened and then laying dormant to prepare itself for another season to repeat the process over and over again.

How much more so this degraded world so alienated from God is found wanting too in God's scales Today.

No more than it has for eons of evolution in soul growth. Too many people have this image of finality with God. Knowing little of how infinite God is and how limitless the manifestation of God can be.

When mankind finds themselves living at the the time of the feet of the Image that the Babylonian King dreamed about. When the Stone would strike the feet of that Image and the Drophet Daniel reveals weighty meaning for us about these matters of God in our time period. It is all so very interesting...

Even more interesting to those who have succeeded in their quest to find God and understand God rather than to think about God from ideas and superstition.

What is the real thing to be happy about?

That which is real.

"Boy I'm some glad to be a bad Babylonian soldier who is going to lose my life tonight." Hardly! Do you miss the purpose of Bible truth Joesus?

Not at all. Jesus never wrote anything down. Unfortunately only snippets of his years of conversation and teachings with his disciples have been recorded, only to be parroted by those who have not run the course of achieving Christ-ed consciousness themselves. From delusion is created fear and expectation of Gods rule rather than from first hand experience which is extended to understanding of creation and personal responsibility to greater understanding and experience. There is scripture that is actually written by masters who have achieved what Jesus did, and it is much more easily absorbed and understood than the periodic quotations which have been so badly mistranslated in the Bible and it brings greater understanding and life to Biblical scripture so that one has no illusions about a God who is lacking or in need or that suffers from the imaginings of the ego in it's separation in awareness of Spirit.

It is to warn us about how God feels us when we are alive and what actions are we taking to demonstrate that we love God primariy with our own life. You know. Our own God fearing relationship with the One who can take away our life. That is not mere superstition. Are we asleep some how now?

That is superstition. The masters of reality teach understanding and lead those who are ready to first hand experience of the One. Only from the experience of achievement can one lead another or speak effectively of the Biblical references to God. Others project from the imagination of the ego.

The real question for individuals to ask themselves is, including myself, is "What sort of person am I?

An even better question would be "who or what am I?" Simply projecting relative measures of self image only allows for a diversity of opinion which Religion has demonstrated by fragmenting itself into so many pieces of a pie, with each piece of the pie claiming to know better than the other pieces.

What am I doing to encougage my fellowman to be a better person witth the Spirit and Truth that I have learned?

What have you learned? Are you confident you are encouraging those from the same place as did the originator of the words replicated in part and partially understood and mistranslated into the book called the bible?

Fore, if I don't know how to live in a more proper God-fearing way of life myself, then I would be a hypocrite for trying to pull the rafter out of someone else's eye, by just telling them what "I Think that they should do is this!".

Exactly and Jesus used to point out the delusions of the pharisees and false prophets to come who would twist the meanings of his words having spent no time under direct tutelage of his teachings.

Frankly Joesus, you have your formal factual education. How does that help you be a better example to others, so that with a better comprehension you can help yourself? Tell me please if you want too.

Direct experience and a surrender to the will of spirit as the example is superior to any knowledge.
Knowledge is misconstrued and taken out of context when repeated from one mouth to another and becomes less than knowledge. Such is the reality of religion and religionists.

You see if I say "I follow the Ten Commandments." If another says, "I follow the Golden Rule." Then here is just two examples of someone trying to live a good life by their living their example in their day to day life. Whoop de do!! There are others you don't worship God who try to live a good life too!

Niether can be effective without having surrendered all thought feeling and action to spirit, as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." People who believe in God without the direct experience and immersion of self into God are no different than people who don't believe in God. Their intentions are directed from a best guess and a belief in social mores given to them from someone else who had their beliefs and those beliefs are constantly changing. It wasn't that long ago the church had a rule they called righteous and golden that allowed them to persecute and execute everyone that did not fall in line with church edict.

The point is, then that, that "good" person would be prostrating themselves in prayer to God, sighing and crying, so to speak, over all the detestable things going on around him in the world. Such fellow feeling for God requires for really close fervent prayers to Him. There is a need then to know His name "Jehovah" to do that in a friendlier manner.

Eastern Scripture and spiritual sciences would say to meditate (pray) on the word of God (the Om) to come to know and unite with God, rather than to waste time projecting from not knowing God and surmising Gods reality while standing outside of it. Then true compassion reveals that everyone is doing the best they can rather than the worst with a need to correct what God has created from the position of imagining ones self as God with a problem in defective craftsmanship.

If Jehovah God's Kingdom is Ruling by Christ Jesus now amid His enemies do you not think that these enemies would want Jehovah's name removed from the Bible so that common people can't learn it or call on Him more closely? That is a Spiritual Warfare tactic.

That's also a big IF. God being Omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent can't possibly have a creation that has gotten out of hand nor could his creation be less than perfect. If God is imperfect there is a problem and he would need all the help he could get. But the Truth of the matter is Christ is inside of everyone and it only needs to be given attention. To be watered and fertilized and given time to grow in those who are on their path to evolution.
There are just as many good hearted souls filled with misinformation creating inferior examples of righteousness as there are ideas of the enemy. The opposition is the ego and it lives in separation only from lack of experience and better understanding. Once understanding is gained thru experience perfection is realized. Until then, it (ego) can only imagine God and his/her/Its limits, or even limitlessness. Let's face it from the reference point of being limited it would be difficult to know unlimited boundary-less life of Spirit.

Why not look for a Bible that has God's name in it and study what is happening to the people trying to learn from it and live the way Christ Jesus taught his followers to live.

I find that studying people who are trying to lean from a book they do not understand to be less effective than to study scripture after having reached an experience of Spirit which reveals the message behind the parables of scripture. Also I find it effective to study all scripture to find commonality so that knowledge is not limited to someones beliefs created from trying to learn and not knowing.

Preach from door to door reasonably when able to and only worry about Life's anxieties one day at a time in such Last Days of such Critical Times hard to deal with. Such ones are praying to Jehovah about that too!

I find that there is wisdom in the words, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
So... It becomes effective to direct knowledge to those who are not wearing blinders and set into patterns that disallow experience thru an innocent approach.

There are a couple of wise sayings: "Consciousness recognizes consciousness," and "when the student is ready the teacher will appear." I believe Jesus sent his disciples out with a similar message not to waste time with those who would not receive them, but more importantly he also didn't send out his disciples with any lack of experience of the One, so their words were not of the intellect but of Spirit itself.

[P.j.S]

God is a Person of Order. What Organization are you associated with Joesus?

[Joesus]

God is a Person of Order. What Organization are you associated with Joesus?

God is not a person but lives in all persons, and as such, order is "creation." I am in all of it, but not of it, for there are many interpretations of order and creation, and I am not bound by anyone's personal needs to reflect any particular organization or order.

Which "Organization" do you think Jesus belonged to and subsequently indoctrinated his disciples into?

[P.j.S]

God is a Person of Order. What Organization are you associated with Joesus?

God is not a person but lives in all persons, and as such, order is "creation." I am in all of it, but not of it, for there are many interpretations of order and creation, and I am not bound by anyone's personal needs to reflect any particular organization or order.

Which "Organization" do you think Jesus belonged to?

What is the name of the person sitting beside me?

If you can't tell me then I don't believe that you are God at least Joesus or that He is personally telling you too much if He is in you. You may need to get closer to Him than that, really. If your not organized then perhaps you are just some lonely individual with an encyclopedia. I don't believe there would be any violence after the Teachings of Christ Jesus if God was in everyone. Christ Jesus died a violent death and it is reasonable to appreciate that He (Jehovah) only knows the wicked one from a distance. God has no part of those who practicer violence other than to sustain their life on one hand while He seriously tries to get them to change their ways before He puts them to sleep in death permanently.

You fail to recognize that there is little or no comfort in your words. If God is in everybody like you say then you could be nothing more than another violent killer hiding behind your Alias looking for intellectual prey.

The Apostle Paul taught, if I remember correctly, about Sarah. Jesus may have been spiritually a part of that arrangement. It involves the enmity between the Woman's seed and the seed of the Serpent.

Good Day!

[Rick]

The trouble with any religion is that it closes minds.

[Lindsay]

"The trouble with any religion is that it closes minds." Rick

Rick, do you mean any and all religions? I know you like the truth; are you sure your statement is fully true? Check out http://www.wondercafe.ca[/url] which is hosted by the http://www.united-church.ca It encourages dialogue with an open-mind. Atheists and agnostics, and all religions, are welcome.

[P.j.S]

It is very sad. But you are right Rick.

When voilence prevailed in the earth it was like a false way of life from what God had intended. It was like a false religion because individuals worshipped their bellies instead of their Creator. That means that they worshipped the creation instead of rightfully worshipping the Creator.

So God had regrets that He made man. Effectively He closed His mind to the voilence. But thankfully with His heart He felt like correcting matters to help poor peaceable people and only 8 of them out of everyone alive got on the Ark, the means of survival. Noah did not orchestrate the building of a boat. God did. He reads the heart and knows the thoughts of people. He knew how many people would get on and what animals to save to fit in the boat that the people could handle for about a year or so before trying to manage on dry ground again.

So Rick it is easy to see by your specifics in posting participation that your are a sane thinker and assume responsibility for your decisions which is how God is free to Judge individuals but your heart Rick is what God and Fellow-feeling persons who know you will watch to see what you are motivated to do. You know your actions resulting from what you think. We need to watch what we think then ever so carefully since as the Bible Teaches longer living prospects with the return of dead loved ones is in view. That is Good News.

The heart is the seat of motivation. I hope that you think so too.

Peter.

[Rick]

There are many Christians who believe the bible is not to be taken literally, but to be taken in the contexts of the times in which the various parts were written.

Some of those believe that the best action is to live a life in emulation of Christ, taking to heart the best things he taught, and ignoring those things not quite up to the best standards of Humanism.

Personally, I think there is too much mental and emotional baggage attached to any of the scriptures (Vedas, Quran, etc.) to take them as anything more than ancient literature to study for insight into the past.

[P.j.S]

10,000 years ago the earth was real. Now people walk around with their heads up in the clouds and the ground is invisible. No I'm not saying this to act smart. Rather the ground is still literal. We can tust that.

You are right again that determining what is literal or not in the Bible may be difficult or even impossible at our level of understanding. Appreciating simple principles is vital for survival.

Like obedience is better than a sacrifice. Christ died for our sins. Our sins and imperfection is why we die. Christ would not have died for us if mankind had not lost their perfection in the first place. Every time we repeatedly sin it is personally like asking Christ to die for us again. Is not obedience to God then to do what is right better than liening on Christ's life if we really can do better than that with our personal habits? These are things that God looks for in people. Who really appreciates what His Son did for us?

Therefore when we avoid intellectualism or "here's what I independently think" on a spiritual plane then we will realize that by following the simple lessons of the Bible that it becomes easier to trust God to handle the more difficult things in His time like earthquakes and how people are suffering from tragedy like that for example.

We need to learn about God's thinking and feeling about how we should live and try to trust Him more like there is still ground under everyone's feet, we trust that. BTW, Trip like I do, that picture of 1/2 the earth as seen from the moon is needly of a new special word just to show proper appreciation for the picturesque. Regular words are to busy decribing something else I guess. Where the earth should be is dark just like the poor people there have no ground to stand on. Wow! Just a little worn out wow! is all I can think of to relieve expression motivational pressure right now, sorry!

...anyway Rick the emphasis on obeying is better than a sacrifice, causes benefit for oneself at least for relief from a grief stricken conscience for one thing. The emotional benefits of appreciating Christ Jesus offering of his life for us are weighty and healthy for us.

Peter

[Rick]

There are no gods, and even if there were, why should we obey them? You need obey only yourself. It's a big responsibility to command yourself wisely.

[P.j.S]

There are no gods, and even if there were, why should we obey them? You need obey only yourself. It's a big responsibility to command yourself wisely.

Well if you don't know God then you may be using some of his Laws and Orders to govern yourself. You didn't invent your principles yourself did you? So why obey God? He knows that you are not going to live very much longer only utilizing some of what is beneficial for an individual to practice. When imperfect there is a need to do more. That is what spiritual warfare is now after Christ Death.

Everyone is responsible to wrestle with themselves so that they can become better living companions with everyone else allowed to live. When the imperfection is finally out of the way again then on with the good things, the Real Life. Our uninterrupted studies and stuff like that. Good associates and stuff like that.

God lives uninterruptly meaning He doesn't die like mankind does. The matter of imperfection is only a temporary circumstance for Him to be handling His way. After informing individuals that refuse to co-operate their persistence gets them evicted. Even real estate owners among people know that they won't tolerate property devaluing tenants for very long. Who can afford too?

Now let's use your reasoning for a moment. "I found this empty house and I'm going to stay here for a while and theres nobody to tell me what to do. There is no electricity so I'll just knock out a few windows to get some air in here. Then the owner pulls up and tells you to get out after you make him show you the deed to the property. Now your homeless. What are you going to do now, sue? For what? Damaging another person's property and then not being able to breathe right afterwards about it? You even cleaned your fingernails before you broke in. Personal Cleanliness you know, important. You got to love that.

This earth is God's Rick. Life is designed for many to benefit from. Individuals seeking to corrupt even inadvertantly are warned to stop. That influence is counter productive. That's the power of the Bible's warnings. It is before the fact for us like a "No Tresspassing" sign. We have no excuses for stubbornly refusing to make good spiritual progress since Christ Jesus taught us so many things particularly about better living and how to achieve it. Such violent ones living on earth with Noah a Preacher of Righteousness were evicted on record already. God will do it again He warns but not by a global flood this time.

A person may want God to deal with them personally. "Make me god type attidude". Sad. But when God collects everyone who feels that way then by the example of the Flood then He gets rid of them all at once.

How many people built the Ark and how many people got on board? How many are preaching in our day like Noah did then and like Christ Jesus demonstrated he wanted done? And how many will survive God's war this time? You perhaps decide for yourself.

Trip like I do, I'm heading for those pictures now. They're really encouraging to me. And I think that I need some right about now. Thanks again.

PJS

PS The moon was here before we got here. Is it too hard to think that somebody else might own it like the earth being already owned too in much the sameway?.. :.

[Joesus]

Which "Organization" do you think Jesus belonged to?

You haven't answered this question.

What is the name of the person sitting beside me?

What is the flesh and what is the spirit? Is the person sitting next to you flesh or spirit? Are you flesh or are you spirit, and does your spirit have a name?

If you can't tell me then I don't believe that you are God at least Joesus or that He is personally telling you too much if He is in you.

No I don't think you do believe me. I think you only believe what you want to hear.

You may need to get closer to Him than that, really. If your not organized then perhaps you are just some lonely individual with an encyclopedia.

Or like Jesus fully surrendered to the Spirit and as such part of everything.

I don't believe there would be any violence after the Teachings of Christ Jesus if God was in everyone.

Of course you don't because you don't believe in ignorance having been part of all that is in duality. You believe in a perfect world of God and God being only in what you see as perfection. You believe Man (Gods creation) has gotten away from God and that God has lost control of his creation, but that is just silly.

Christ Jesus died a violent death and it is reasonable to appreciate that He (Jehovah) only knows the wicked one from a distance.

Then from that statement it is reasonable to assume that unless you are God you can't know what God is or feels, but only imagine according to your best guess.

God has no part of practicers of violence other than to sustain their life on one hand while He seriously tries to get them to change their ways before He puts them to sleep in death permanently.

You are ignoring re-incarnation as it is mentioned in the Bible, and you are proselytizing only one way to see God as you believe it to be. God is much more than a person of failure who can't get a grip on what he has created with a need to play God the repairman.

You fail to recognize that there is little or no comfort in your words. If God is in everybody like you say then you could be nothing more than another violent killer hiding behind your Alias looking for intellectual prey.

Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

But without knowing God you wouldn't know, you can only project from fear. And Since God is not in everything as you suggest it would be reasonable to assume there are other forces just a powerful as God to create stress in Gods heart. But then who created that and why does it escape any relevance to Gods intentions?

The Apostle Paul taught, if I remember correctly, about Sarah. Jesus may have been spiritually apart of that arrangement. It involves the emnity between the Woman's seed and the seed of the Serpent.

You are rambling here..grasping at straws.

PS The moon was here before we got here. Is it too hard to think that somebody else might own it like the earth being already owned too in much the sameway?.. :.

You are assuming there is no life anywhere but in this solar system and that Man did not exist anywhere in the universe other than here after the creation of this earth and moon. Where does it say that in the bible? Where does it say this earth is the only earth? How is it possible that An omnipotent God does not create perfection and is limited to life in human form singularly on this planet in a Universe with over 400 billion galaxies?

[P.j.S]

Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah's Witness just like Abel and so many other individuals Heavenly and Earthly are Joesus. Are you one?

[Joesus]

Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah's Witness just like Abel and so many other individuals Heavenly and Earthly are Joesus. Are you one?

What exactly does that mean and how is that specified in the bible? Did he come to join the JW's in progress? Were his parents Joseph and Mary, JW's?

And speaking of comforting words why don't JW'S celebrate or acknowledge the birth of Jesus, or of their own children? It is mentioned that there was a Star shining overhead of the birthplace and that wise men did come to bear gifts for the coming savior....

[P.j.S]

Jesus Christ was and is a Jehovah's Witness just like Abel and so many other individuals Heavenly and Earthly are Joesus. Are you one?

What exactly does that mean and how is that specified in the bible? Did he come to join the JW's in progress? Were his parents Joseph and Mary, JW's?

And speaking of comforting words why don't JW'S celebrate the birth of Jesus or of their own children? It is mentioned that there was a Star shining overhead of the birthplace and that wise men did come to bear gifts for the coming savior....

1)

The nation of Isreal were dedicated because they were Baptized into the Red Sea following Moses in flight from the Egyptian Pharoah and pursueing Army. Remember Jehovah had just defeated 10 false Gods of the Egyptians by use of the 10 Plaques now Pharoah was charging again.

Moses was God's chosen Mediator for that people and they had to follow him and no doubt wanted to after seeing the waters parted. Of that dedicated people arose a prophet in time. His name was Isaiah. Please read Isaiah 43:9-12. Saying God does not exist is like a court case to Him. Ones who support Him are His witnesses.

Consequently today Jehovah's Witnesses come from all Walks of Life. Therefore they are Baptized differently. An individual comes to an understanding of solid Bible Truth and then dedicates their life in a way like Christ Jesus did. He had no sin when John the Baptizer baptised him in the Jordan River. It is clearly understood that Jesus dedicated his life to do his Father's will.

So people of a certain spiritually mature standing in the local congregation that feel comfortable with their decision to serve God more fully in their life, that is also approved by experienced others can proceed to get Baptized acknowledging sinfullness and repenting while showing the upmost respect for the Ransom Provision which was the means to properly and more permanently have sins forgiven and then embrace a Christian way of life that was practiced by those in the 1 century congregations instructed and trained by Jesus to advance the message of the Good News of God's Kingdom at the time and for our times as well.



2)

Simply why try to draw comfort from what is erroneos. What does light have to do with darkness. Christ was not born on Dec.25 of any Year that I'm aware of. I'm not certain but was there a Dec 25 2 B.C.E.?
Further children are told about Santa Claus. When I was nine I told a friend on his Christmas Eve that his parents put the gifts under the tree. Later that evening he caught them and stopped being my friend.

I ask you what comfort are you trying to sell about Christmas to me now when people choose to keep their lies and leave me with the truth that there is no Santa Claus and friendless. Just take Christmas and see how hard it is for God to figure out how many people love lies or not each passing year of social and financial upheaval and ruin. But I will admit "Home Alone" is difficult not to appreciate for the capibility of what love in a family can be like from an imaginary movie point of view and not necessarily a religious point of view.

[Joesus]

1)

The nation of Isreal were dedicated because they were Baptized into the Red Sea following Moses in flight from the Egyptian Pharoah and pursueing Army. Remember Jehovah had just defeated !0 false Gods of the Egyptians by use of the 10 Plaques now Pharoah was charging again.

Moses was God's chosen Mediator for that people and they had to follow him and no doubt wanted to after seeing the waters parted. Of that dedicated people arose a prophet in time. His name was Isaiah. Please read Isaiah 43:9-12. Saying god does not exist is like a court case to Him. Ones who support him are His witnesses.

Consequently today Jehovah's Witnesses come from all Walks of Life. Therefore they are Baptisted differently. An individual comes to an understanding of solid Bible Truth and then dedicates their life in a way like Christ Jesus did. He had no sin when John the Baptizer baptised him in the Jordan River. It is clearly understood that Jesus dedicated his life to do his Father's will.

So people of a certain spiritually mature standing that they feel comfortable with that is also approved by experienced others can proceed to get Baptized and embrance a Christian way of life that was practised by those in the 1 century congregations instructed and trained by Jesus to advance the message of the Good News of God's Kingdom at the time, for our times as well.

This doesn't tell me anything. It is all circumstantial idealization, of some historic past and the attempt to mimic the past in an interpretation for a probable future. What Jesus did in full surrender then, is not sufficient to say he would apply himself to the people with what is happening now and follows the idealistic approach that is printed on so many bumper stickers that say "WWJD" (What would Jesus do)? None of this includes scripture of any sage or prophet with any equal value to western religion but isolates God to one event 2000 years ago, suggesting that those who missed it, missed out, and that God doesn't present any Teaching other than that one incident. This is a very shallow approach to God and a superstitious approach. Why would you teach your children how to live in the 1st century A.D. according to circumstance that prevailed then when they are born and live in this century? Sure, certain things exist without change such as God absolute but for man his understanding and experience of the absolute reflect mans evolution to perfection in understanding and experience, which is eternal just as God is. There is no end to experience and no end to God. Why try and stuff God into a quart size container in belief and circumstance based on ONE story alone when the story is ongoing and has been since man existed? Just how long do you think man has been on this planet?

The Council of the Seven Sages of the World

The seven sages of the world meet in Alexandria. The purposes of the meeting. The opening addresses.

In every age since time began have seven sages lived.
At first of every age these sages meet to note the course of nations, peoples, tribes and tongues; To note how far toward justice, love and righteousness the race has gone; To formulate the code of laws, religious postulates and plans of rule best suited to the coming age.
An age had passed, and lo, another age had come; the sages must convene.
Now, Alexandria was the centre of the world's best thought, and here in Philo's home the sages met. From China came Meng-ste; from India Viyapati came; from Persia Kaspar came; and from Assyria Ashbina came; from Greece Apollo; Matheno was the Egyptian sage, and Philo was the chief of Hebrew thought. The time was due; the council met and sat in silence seven days. And then Meng-ste arose and said, The wheel of time has turned once more; the race is on a higher plane of thought. The garments that our fathers wove have given out; the cherubim have woven a celestial cloth; have placed it in our hands and we must make for men new garbs.
The sons of men are looking up for greater light. No longer do they care for gods hewn out of wood, or made of clay. They seek a God not made with hands. They see the beams of coming day, and yet they comprehend them not. The time is ripe, and we must fashion well these garments for the race.
And let us make for men new garbs of justice, mercy, righteousness and love, that they may hide their nakedness when shines the light of coming day.
And Vidyapati said, Our priests have all gone mad; they saw a demon in the wilds and at him cast their lamps and they are broken up, and not a gleam of light has any priest for men. The night is dark; the heart of India calls for light. The priesthood cannot be reformed; it is already dead; its greatest needs are graves and funeral chants. The new age calls for liberty; the kind that makes each man a priest, enables him to go alone, and lay his offerings on the shrine of God.

And Kaspar said, In Persia people walk in fear; they do the good for fear to do the wrong. The devil is the greatest power in our land, and though a myth, he dandles on his knee both youth and age. Our land is dark, and evil prospers in the dark. Fear rides on every passing breeze, and lurks in every form of life. The fear of evil is a myth, is an illusion and a snare; but it will live until some mighty power shall come to raise the ethers to the plane of light.
When this shall come to pass the magian land will glory in the light. The soul of Persia calls for light.

Ashbina said, Assyria is the land of doubt; the chariot of my people, that in which they mostly ride, is labelled Doubt. Once Faith walked forth in Babylon; and she was bright and fair; but she clothed in such white robes that men became afraid of her. And every wheel began to turn, and Doubt made war on her, and drove her from the land; and she came back no more. In form men worship God, the One; in heart they are not sure that God exists. Faith worships at the shrine of one not seen; but Doubt must see her God. The greatest need of all Assyria is faith--a faith that seasons every thing that is, with certainty.

And then Apollo said, The greatest needs of Greece are true concepts of God. Theogony in Greece is rudderless, for every thought may be a god, and worshipped as a god. The plane of thought is broad, and full of sharp antagonists; and so the circle of the gods is filled with enmity, with wars and base intrigues. Greece needs a master mind to stand above the gods; to raise the thoughts of men away from many gods to God the One. We know that light is coming o'er the hills. God speed the light.

Matheno said, Behold this land of mystery! this Egypt of the dead! Our temples long have been the tombs of all the hidden things of time; our temples, crypts and caves are dark. In light there are no secret things. The sun reveals all hidden truth. There are no mysteries in God. Behold the rising sun! His beams are entering every door; yea, every crevice of the mystic crypt of Mizraim. We hail the light! All Egypt craves the light.

And Philo said, The need of Hebrew thought and life is liberty. The Hebrew prophets, seers, and givers of the law, were men of power, men of holy thought, and they bequeathed to us a system of philosophy that is ideal; one strong enough and good enough to lead our people to the goal of perfectness. But carnal minds repudiated holiness; a priesthood filled with selfishness arose, and purity in heart became a myth; the people were enslaved. The priesthood is the curse of Israel; but when he comes, who is to come, he will proclaim emancipation for the slaves; my people will be free. Behold, for God has made incarnate wisdom, love and light, which he has called Immanuel. To him is given the keys to open up the dawn; and here, as man, he walks with us.

And then the council chamber door was opened and the Logos stood among the sages of the world.
Again the sages sat in silence seven days.

Presentation of the seven universal postulates.

Now, when the sages were refreshed they opened up the Book of Life and read.
They read the story of the life of man; of all his struggles, losses, gains; and in the light of past events and needs, they saw what would be best for him in coming years.
They knew the kind of laws and precepts suited best to his estate; they saw the highest God-ideal that the race could comprehend.
Upon the seven postulates these sages were to formulate, the great philosophy of life and worship of the coming age must rest.

Now Meng-ste was the oldest sage; he took the chair of chief, and said, 'Man is not far enough advanced to live by faith; he cannot comprehend the things his eyes see not.
He yet is child, and during all the coming age he must be taught by pictures, symbols, rites and forms. His God must be a human God; he cannot see a God by faith. And then he cannot rule himself; the king must rule; the man must serve. The age that follows this will be the age of man, the age of faith. In that blest age the human race will see without the aid of carnal eyes; will hear the soundless sound; will know the Spirit-God. The age we enter is the Preparation age, and all the schools and governments and worship rites must be designed in simple way that men may comprehend. And man cannot originate; he builds by patterns that he sees; so in this council we must carve out pattern for the coming age. And we must formulate the gnosis of the Empire of the soul, which rests on seven postulates. Each sage in turn shall form a postulate; and these shall be the basis of the creeds of men until the perfect age shall come."

Then Meng-ste wrote the first:
All things are thought; all life is thought activity. The multitude of beings are but phases of the one great thought made manifest. Lo, God is Thought, and Thought is God.

Then Vidyapati wrote the second postulate:
Eternal Thought is one; in essence it is two--Intelligence and Force; and when they breathe a child is born; this child is Love. And thus the Triune God stands forth, whom men call Father-Mother-Child. This Triune God is one; but like the one of light, in essence he is seven. And when the Triune God breathes forth, lo, seven Spirits stand before his face; these are creative attributes. Men call them lesser gods, and in their image they made man.

And Kaspar wrote the third:
Man was a thought of God, formed in the image of the Septonate, clothed in the substances of soul. And his desires were strong; he sought to manifest on every plane of life, and for himself he made a body of the ethers of the earthly forms, and so descended to the plane of earth. In this descent he lost his birthright; lost his harmony with God, and made discordant all the notes of life. Inharmony and evil are the same; so evil is the handiwork of man.

Ashbina wrote the fourth:
Seeds do not germinate in light; they do not grow until they find the soil, and hide themselves away from light.
Man was evolved a seed of everlasting life; but in the ethers of the Triune God, the light was far too great for seeds to grow; And so man sought the soil of carnal life, and in the darksomeness of earth he found a place where he could germinate and grow.
The seed has taken root and grown full well. The tree of human life is rising from the soil of earthy things, and, under natural law, is reaching up to perfect form. There are no supernatural acts of God to lift a man from carnal life to spirit blessedness; he grows as grows the plant, and in due time is perfected. The quality of soul that makes it possible for man to rise to spirit life is purity.

Apollo wrote the fifth:
The soul is drawn to perfect light by four white steeds, and these are Will, and Faith, and Helpfulness and Love.
That which one wills to do, he has the power to do.
A knowledge of that power is faith; and when faith moves, the soul begins its flight. A selfish faith leads not to light. There is no lonely pilgrim on the way to light. Men only gain the heights by helping others gain the heights. The steed that leads the way to spirit life is Love; is pure unselfish Love.

Matheno wrote the sixth:
The universal Love of which Apollo speaks is child of Wisdom and of Will divine, and God has sent if forth to earth in flesh that man may know. The universal Love of which the sages speak, is Christ. The greatest mystery of all times lies in the way that Christ lives in the heart. Christ cannot live in clammy dens of carnal things. The seven battles must be fought, the seven victories won before the carnal things, like fear, and self, emotions and desire, are put away.
When this is done the Christ will take possession of the soul; the work is done, and man and God are one.

And Philo wrote the seventh:
A perfect man! To bring before the Triune God a being such as this was nature made.
This consummation is the highest revelation of the mystery of life. When all the essences of carnal things have been transmuted into soul, and all the essences of soul have been returned to Holy Breath, and man is made a perfect God, the drama of Creation will conclude. And this is all.
And all the sages said, Amen.

Then Meng-ste said, The Holy One has sent to us a man illumined by the efforts of unnumbered years, to lead the thoughts of men.
This man, approved by all the master minds of heaven and earth, this man from Galilee, this Jesus, chief of all the sages of the world, we gladly recognise. In recognition of this wisdom that he brings to men, we crown him with the Lotus wreath. We send him forth with all the blessing of the seven sages of the world.

Then all the sages laid their hands on Jesus' head, and said with one accord, Praise God! For wisdom, honour, glory, power, riches, blessing, strength, are yours, O Christ, for evermore.
And every living creature said, Amen.
And then the sages sat in silence seven days.

Jesus addresses the seven sages. The address. Jesus goes to Galilee.

The seven days of silence passed and Jesus, sitting with the sages said: "The history of life is well condensed in these immortal postulates. These are the seven hills on which the holy city shall be built. These are the seven sure foundation stones on which the Universal Church shall stand. In taking up the work assigned for me to do I am full conscious of the perils of the way; the cup will be a bitter one to drink and human nature well might shrink. But I have lost my will in that of Holy Breath, and so I go my way to speak and act by Holy Breath. The words I speak are not my own; they are the words of him whose will I do. Man is not far enough advanced in sacred thought to comprehend the Universal Church, and so the work that God has given me to do is not the building of that Church. I am a model maker, sent to make a pattern of the Church that is to be--a pattern that the age may comprehend. My task as model builder lies within my native land, and there, upon the postulate that Love is son of God, that I am come to manifest that Love, the Model Church will stand. And from the men of low estate I will select twelve men, who represent the twelve immortal thoughts; and these will be the Model Church. The house of Judah, my own kindred in the flesh, will comprehend but little of my mission to the world. And they will spurn me, scorn my work, accuse me falsely, bind me, take me to the judgement seat of carnal men who will convict and slay me on the cross. But men can never slay the truth; though banished it will come again in greater power; for truth will subjugate the world.
The Model Church will live. Though carnal man will prostitute its sacred laws, symbolic rites and forms, for selfish ends, and make it but an outward show, the few will find through it the kingdom of the soul. And when the better age shall come the Universal Church will stand upon the seven postulates, and will be built according to the pattern given.
The time has come; I go my way unto Jerusalem, and by the power of living faith, and by the strength that you have given. And in the name of God, our Father-God, the kingdom of the soul shall be established on the seven hills. And all the peoples, tribes and tongues of earth shall enter in.
The Prince of Peace will take his seat upon the throne of power; the Triune God will then be All in All."

And all the sages said, Amen.
And Jesus went his way, and after many days, he reached Jerusalem; and then he sought his home in Galilee.

2)

Simply why try to draw comfort from what is erroneos. What does light have to do with darkness. Christ was not born on Dec.25 of any Year that I'm aware of. I'm not certain but was there a Dec 25 2 B.C.E.?
Further children are told about Santa Claus. When I was nine I told a friend on his Christmas Eve that his parents put the gifts under the tree. Later that evening he caught them and stopped being my friend.

I ask you what comfort are you trying to sell about Christmas to me now when people choose to keep their lies and leave me with the truth that there is no Santa Claus and friendless. Just take Christmas and see how hard it is for God to figure out how many people love lies or not each passing year of social and financial upheaval and ruin. But I will admit "Home Alone" is difficult not to appreciate for the capibility of what love in a family can be like from an imaginary movie point of view and not necessarily a religious point of view.

I asked a question why Jesus' birth is not recognized or celebrated and it has nothing to do with Saint Nick who was an example to the Joy of giving, rather than a suited man pulled by 8 flying reindeer.
As I said the birth of Jesus was symbolized by a shining star and gift bearing Kings. Why does such a celebration not exist in the beliefs of the JW's and why do you deny any joy and celebration of the birth of your own children?

[Rick]

You didn't invent your principles yourself did you?

Some very simple principles:

Love: good.

Hate: bad.

I didn't invent water either, but I don't need to praise any water spirits when I'm thirsty and have a drink.

[P.j.S]

Birthdays are held in a bad light in the Bible.
In both cases someone lost their life.

The Star that was unusual led the wise men to King Herod who gathered intelligence from these ones and on his own initiative had all the children two years and under killed in an attempt to dispose of baby Jesus the future King to be in Herod's mind as well. So who provided the star for that activity? God? Probably. But not the one that Jehovah's Witnesses worship.

I respect your presentative quality and demeanor in approach. But my particular time budget hasn't allowed me to read everything that you post. Continue to satisfy your need of expression with long posts for the record or downsize with focus per post if you want to. Just a suggestion.

The world could not contain all the books to be written about what Jesus did while on Earth. The Bible offers many things of great delight. I do not know of a Biblical encounter by Jesus with the Seven Sages in Galilee but I do find it questionable that he would attribute ruling power to a triune god of some sort.

He did ask for God to just give him the Glory that he had before when he returned to Heaven. Perhaps that may bother you that the Father and 1st born Son be together again like an old way of doing things instead of some new triune way. I sense serious spiritual sickness here somewhere. Perhaps it's just my poor memory acting up again.

Jesus speaking of being with his heavenly Father in like manner again or in a new triune setting is a conflict of interests. I don't buy one of these two offerings. Show me the scripture where Jesus addresses the Seven Sages please or I will just have to relegate myself to experiencing triune god hearsay.

Peter