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Hey Hey
post Feb 08, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Anyone seen this?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1173494/
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post Feb 08, 2009, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Feb 08, 2009, 11:16 AM) *

Well, so now I have two movies on similar subjects to look forward to at the movie rental store! I was waiting for Bill Maher's "Religulous" to become available: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...igulous_is.html

And now this one! Thanks Hey Hey!
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Rick
post Feb 08, 2009, 01:56 PM
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Putting God on trial when it was the Nazis who committed the crimes seems a bit pointless to me.
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post Feb 08, 2009, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 08, 2009, 09:56 PM) *

Putting God on trial when it was the Nazis who committed the crimes seems a bit pointless to me.

God created the Nazis....Also everything that is....
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post Feb 08, 2009, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 08, 2009, 06:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 08, 2009, 09:56 PM) *

Putting God on trial when it was the Nazis who committed the crimes seems a bit pointless to me.

God created the Nazis....Also everything that is....

So let's put God on trial for all His evil deeds!!!
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post Feb 08, 2009, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE

So let's put God on trial for all His evil deeds!!!


What is good and evil but a perspective of identifying with the outer world according to certain ideals.

If the soul is the one eternal God and the manifestations of the soul or incarnations of man are clothing the soul dons to experience life and all is God, then God is simply imagining himself, itself, as all parts within the drama. Creating, un-creating, putting itself on trial and creating worship in people who idealize God. The universe is in a constant change of appearance and evolution. If something is created and within the context of evolution there is change and expansion from the occurrences we often accept it as necessary.
Some might look at the giant explosion labeled as the big bang as violent action necessary to produce a greater end result. If humanity in its violent evolution overcomes its ignorance thru self discovery then that may be what it needs to be.
A mother or father loves its child even tho it may steal and wreck the family car or set fire to the house, and the wise parent will structure useful experiences to help it recognize the outcome of choice. Such is the state of infancy in humanity as it grows into its developing nature.
We as humans have a long way to go. If the child judges the parent and removes all of the parents ability to give guidance the child does exactly what it does in a situation such as the Holocaust. Without a connection to family ties and wisdom children do stupid things.
Better for humanity to become aware of itself and its childish nature than to put the parent on trial for its own ignorance and stupidity.
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Lindsay
post Feb 22, 2009, 08:01 PM
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As a unitheist, I speak of and am becoming more and more conscious of the One infinity of space and eternity of time--in short, the immeasurable space/time continuum, which I call GOD. Our maintaining the illusion that, using the microscope and the telescope, scientists will one day be able to measure it, is what separates us from GOD. It is a kind of idolatry--god as the ultimate and limited thing.

How would anyone go about putting the One infinity and eternity of space/time, GOD, and our consciousness of it, on trial?

THE MEANING OF LIFE
BTW, if scientists--and not all are atheists--ever discover all, or even most, of the secrets of nature, including the gene that helps some certain simply be god-like--that is, good, moral, ethical and loving people--they will have discovered the meaning of life. Physical, mental and spiritual omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence would be ours simply for our being humble enough to open ourselves to, and connect with, all Being, the Presence. Some might like to call it the god Gene, you name it. I like to call it the grace of GOD.

When this happens, all truly good, loving and prophetic people, including some who may even call themselves atheists--probably not tied to any of the organized and cultic kinds of religion--will rejoice and ask our scientists: What took you so long?
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Lindsay
post Feb 22, 2009, 08:32 PM
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Comic Bill Maher's "Religulous" Questions Foundation & Power Structure of Religion
==============
CB, do you write as an atheist?

BTW, I saw Bill Maher's "Religulous". I found it very amusing and no threat to unitheism. More of a vindication. I agree with the following:

QUOTE
From early reviews, it's clear Maher isn't denigrating religion, nor casting his own beliefs or lack thereof, on those who faithfully worship a deity. According to Maher, his film core mission is to question why people do the things they do in God's name.

Why do they hate others who don't attend the same church?
Why do terrorist groups flourish claiming to be doing God's work?

These observations may be scathing in their content, but also hilariously delivered. After all, Maher is first and foremost a comedian. Comics can always get away with more than most of us. From Lenny Bruce to Richard Pryor to Howard Stern, agile comic minds concoct deliriously funny bits from the mundane. They're all the more rib tickling, because they're culled from our lives and the culture at large. Religion is certainly fair game, since it touches all of us on some level.

In today's world of fractured belief systems where brother and sister of differing faiths quarrel, where religious extremism has shed so much blood many simply accept it as the way things are, people must talk about what can be done. I don't agree with everything Bill Maher says, but I'm excited to see someone ask the real big questions in such a big way like Religulous.

If we all were brave enough to ask more questions of our political leaders, our religious leaders and of ourselves, we'd have more answers. At the very least, we'd not expect to get honest answers from those who may have hidden agendas and motivations, which compel them to ensure a constituency or a flock is kept complacent, silent and unquestioning.
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post Feb 22, 2009, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 22, 2009, 08:32 PM) *

Comic Bill Maher's "Religulous" Questions Foundation & Power Structure of Religion
==============
CB, do you write as an atheist?

If we all were brave enough to ask more questions of our political leaders, our religious leaders and of ourselves, we'd have more answers

This seems a little bit paradoxical don't you think? I mean, why ask these proffessional liars for answers that you can get from GOD's infinite wisdom?
Bill Mahers also says in the movie somewhere that religion is the number one problem in the world, and the one most dangerous threat to human existence.
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Joesus
post Feb 22, 2009, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Feb 23, 2009, 04:55 AM) *


This seems a little bit paradoxical don't you think? I mean, why ask these proffessional liars for answers that you can get from GOD's infinite wisdom?
Bill Mahers also says in the movie somewhere that religion is the number one problem in the world, and the one most dangerous threat to human existence.

The basis of the movie was to demoralize the illusions of those who follow a belief that doesn't connect all faiths together. Maher was in it both for the fun and the money.

Someday someone will want to take it all seriously and maybe some day humanity will want to get serious as well.
Until then we are the most entertained people to date with all of the things we have to waste our time with in separating ourselves into the various classes of fools.
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trojan_libido
post Feb 23, 2009, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE
Bill Mahers also says in the movie somewhere that religion is the number one problem in the world, and the one most dangerous threat to human existence.
This is a very simplistic way to look at things, one which a few years ago I would have agreed with. If we didn't have religion, maybe we wouldn't be there. Maybe religion comes about from our animal instinct to group together. Maybe all subsequent groups (businesses, schools etc.) have come about due to the same biological mechanism.

For you to do anything, you must have Faith! Faith in yourself or others to do something. That faith can be misplaced for sure.
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post Feb 23, 2009, 07:44 AM
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Feb 23, 2009, 12:34 AM) *

QUOTE
Bill Mahers also says in the movie somewhere that religion is the number one problem in the world, and the one most dangerous threat to human existence.
This is a very simplistic way to look at things, one which a few years ago I would have agreed with. If we didn't have religion, maybe we wouldn't be there. Maybe religion comes about from our animal instinct to group together. Maybe all subsequent groups (businesses, schools etc.) have come about due to the same biological mechanism.

For you to do anything, you must have Faith! Faith in yourself or others to do something. That faith can be misplaced for sure.

That's a pretty sad statement coming from you T_L. If religion was benefitial in some way, I'd like to see the prove, other than maybe the holocaust; or the dark ages. And if religion was of benefit at some point in history, what is its purpose now? Did you even watch the movie before you pass judgement yet? What is your definition of faith, by the way?
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trojan_libido
post Feb 23, 2009, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE(CB)
That's a pretty sad statement coming from you T_L. If religion was benefitial in some way, I'd like to see the prove, other than maybe the holocaust; or the dark ages.
The fact it exists is enough for me. Nature doesn't do things inefficiently; inefficiencies are destroyed almost as soon as they appear.
QUOTE
And if religion was of benefit at some point in history, what is its purpose now?
Religion arises because we have questions that we can't answer about our origins, purpose etc. Its possible biological benefits are unknown, and I'm sure you knew that! smile.gif
QUOTE
Did you even watch the movie before you pass judgement yet?
Unfortunately not yet although I have downloaded 'Religulous' since hearing about it. I will give it a watch when I get a chance, but I was simply replying to the quote: 'religion is the number one problem in the world, and the one most dangerous threat to human existence' Personally I suspect an impact event to be much more dangerous to our species than religion. You can at least put up a defence against an army full of zealots. Theres not a lot of defence against a 100km asteroid! biggrin.gif
QUOTE
What is your definition of faith, by the way?
Believing in something:
QUOTE(Wiki)
Faith is the confident belief in the truth of or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.[1] It is also used for a belief, characteristically without proof
If we don't have belief, how can we achieve anything?

I watch someone juggle knowing I cant do it. I believe it can be done because I've seen it. I believe I can't do it because I've not learnt the skill. I learn the skill, gain the belief in myself, and can then juggle.

Simply learning requires faith and belief. In some cases we only need faith that we can do something before we can do it. e.g. Singing in front of people - easy if you believe in yourself - nightmare if not!

Apologies for the tangent! I shall keep my nose out until I've seen the material.
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Lindsay
post Feb 23, 2009, 09:01 AM
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THE MARK OF A FALSE RELIGION
==============================
I agree with those who say that the mark of a false religion is any religion which claims to be the only TRUE religion, and that it is the only religion with the supreme power to be able to relay to all human beings The Will of God.

I have heard the leaders of several TRUE religions--yes, there are quite a number of them--say things like: God is not a democrat; God and one makes a majority; God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.
============================================

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reltrue.htm

How many religions are there in the world from which to locate the "true" one?

According to David Barrett and team, there are 19 major world religious groupings in the world which are subdivided into a total of about 10,000 distinct religions.

Of the latter, there were 270 religions and para-religions which had over a half million adherents in the year 2000 CE. Within Christianity, they have identified 34,000 separate groups (denominations, sects, individual unaffiliated churches, para-church groups, etc) in the world. "Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations." 1

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Joesus
post Feb 23, 2009, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 23, 2009, 05:01 PM) *

THE MARK OF A FALSE RELIGION
==============================
I agree with those who say that the mark of a false religion is any religion which claims to be the only TRUE religion, and that it is the only religion with the supreme power to be able to relay to all human beings The Will of God.

The nature of fear in man is such that his beliefs in broken promises have blinded him to his origin. Man makes religion out of beliefs, and usually it is a thread that is linked to something he has heard and understood in the way that gives meaning to personal ideals.

Today if Jesus were to walk up to a mans house and announce himself, the man will have so many preconceived ideas about who or what Jesus should be like that if the image of Jesus were to fail to meet the personal needs and projections of the man, Jesus could not be Jesus.

The reality is that there is Truth, and it underlies all relative ideals, isms or relative truths of the personal.
Primarily the personal is only capable of resonating with what fits in the personal box, and if it fits something that is personal to someone who has his/her own ideals that are contrary to the protagonist in the story of personal ideals, then it is no longer Truth Absolute but relative truth and a religion.

Automatic condemnation toward someone who speaks of the Truth because they say it is the one True religion would be from the inability to see beyond the personal, or the attachment to personal ideals.

God is absolute.
It is the One, that is reflected in all personal interpretations of reality, but you can't force anyone to see beyond their own ideal-isms.

Now, from fear and judgment, we have a religious belief that there can be no one belief, or no one religion that is the True religion. But that is just the individual personality choking the handle of the bat fighting for control of opinion and belief.
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Lindsay
post Feb 23, 2009, 03:11 PM
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DAWKINS CALL TO ARMS--against the long since forgotten gods.
===============================
For the past hour, I watched, and took notes on, the following address. It is about 30 minutes long--by Richard Dawkins.

Like all evangelists, he appealed for money to support his cause: The destruction of ALL religion.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/richard...nt_atheism.html

Nothing RD said was, in my opinion, a threat to unitheism and the GOD-hypothesis based on the scientific attitude. As a unitheist I do NOT believe in the idol-concept of god which he rejects. GOD is not A being.

QUESTIONS:
After listening to his "sermon", will you send him some of your money?
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Rick
post Feb 23, 2009, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 23, 2009, 03:11 PM) *
Like all evangelists, he appealed for money to support his cause: The destruction of ALL religion.

Sounds like a worthy cause to me. Then we'll be able to reach our full human potential!
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Hey Hey
post Feb 23, 2009, 08:29 PM
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http://www.justgiving.com/atheistbus

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Lindsay
post Feb 23, 2009, 10:07 PM
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"Sounds like a worthy cause to me. Then we'll be able to reach our full human potential!" says Rick.

Those who live in the Now, as advocated by unitheism, do not need to wait until a future and illusive "then" to open ourselves to our full potential--GOD. smile.gif

THANKS ATHEISTS, FOR YOUR EGO-BASED CAMPAIGN

BTW, nothing that RD said is a serious threat to the philosophy of religion--"the way of life (religion)"--as advocated by the theology of unitheism. Every unitheist, and even mosts theists, are lovers of philosophy, the sciences and the arts. It seems to me that militant atheism wants to end personal consciousness. They seem to crave oblivion, sad; unitheism wants it to be like beauty: a joy forever. Evidence? Only those who accept and take it will ever know.

QUESTIONS TO ATHEISTS

1. If atheists believe that death is the end of consciousness--and I am not sure if this is so--who of those now living will be around to celebrate anything worthy in the then?

2. Any among the militant atheists with the courage to run this worthy campaign in a non-Judaeo/Christian country? What is their campaign really worth, their lives?
Many religionists, of all stripes--past and present--willingly give their lives for their faith.

3. Does the theory of evolution not tell us that suffering and pain is good for us in that it goads things, including people, to evolve and improve?

4. Do all atheists crave oblivion? Is this your version of "peace of mind"?

THANKS ATHEISTS, FOR HELPING PEOPLE OF FAITH WITH OUR TRULY WORTHY CAMPAIGN--AWAKENING THE SPIRITUALLY DEAD AMONG US TO A WORTHY CONCEPT OF SPIRITUALITY, ETERNAL PEACE OF MIND, GOD

If, as spiritually-minded people, we accept that we are spiritual beings, the sometimes mentally and spiritually painful challenge of the militant atheists will help us evolve, mentally and spiritually, into being better and more loving spiritual beings. For this we offer anyone our thanks. We need never fear improving ourselves. This is truly a worthy campaign: An IMPROVED RELIGION and a worthy concept of GOD.

Biologists tell us that oysters create pearls only when irritated by grains of sand. Metaphorically speaking, militant atheists are to the weak spiritually-minded, among us, what grains of sand are to oysters. THANKS FOR THE PEARLS.
=================================
If anyone finds any of the above offensive, please let me know. I can always change things.
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Hey Hey
post Feb 24, 2009, 06:26 AM
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'Religion': making what there simply 'is', impossible.
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post Feb 24, 2009, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 23, 2009, 10:07 PM) *

If anyone finds any of the above offensive, please let me know. I can always change things.

I find it perplexing as it it reflecs how complex and stubborn a virus of the mind can be. Also sad as It also shows that, in the face of reason, insanity still prevails. This shows how hopless the human cause still is. And how much work there is still to do on the subject of human potential
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Rick
post Feb 24, 2009, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 23, 2009, 10:07 PM) *
Those who live in the Now, as advocated by unitheism, do not need to wait until a future and illusive "then" to open ourselves to our full potential--GOD. smile.gif

When I say that when we have conquered theism, we will be able to obtain our full human potential, I am not saying "I". I am saying "we", in the collective. You theists are holding us back, and only when atheism has conquered theism will "we" (all of us, humanity combined) be able to reach our potential. Theists, including unitheists, are obstructing progress.
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post Feb 24, 2009, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 23, 2009, 10:07 PM) *
QUESTIONS TO ATHEISTS

1. If atheists believe that death is the end of consciousness--and I am not sure if this is so--who of those now living will be around to celebrate anything worthy in the then?

2. Any among the militant atheists with the courage to run this worthy campaign in a non-Judaeo/Christian country? What is their campaign really worth, their lives?
Many religionists, of all stripes--past and present--willingly give their lives for their faith.

3. Does the theory of evolution not tell us that suffering and pain is good for us in that it goads things, including people, to evolve and improve?

4. Do all atheists crave oblivion? Is this your version of "peace of mind"?

1. None alive now will see what we work for, a humanity free of delusion in the future. That will be a good thing, whether or not I, as an idividual, will ever see it. We see beyond the selfishness of individual immortality.

2. I think that all the witches and heretics ever burned for their beliefs gave up their lives.

3. Suffering will always be a part of the human condition, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work to make life as good as it can be for everyone. To do otherwise is evil in the sense that the full potential isn't being realized when it could be if more thought and reason were applied. Not thinking it through is an evil of neglect or weakness.

4. Hell no! Peace of mind comes at the end of a day well lived before sleep. Life is good, give me more. But we also must face reality. We are mortal. Make the most of it.
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post Feb 25, 2009, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Feb 08, 2009, 11:16 AM) *


And does anybody among the Chosen Nation who were very proactively consulting and funding that movie have ever thought to what kind of consequences such cinematograph shall lead if He/She/They really exist... I wonder, where is the Common Sense.

Btw Rick, any news about the g.a. at your backyard? I did not note anything in the news yet.

Btw, I am now reading the book of Mr. Dawkins, you know Good English, I am going to improve my English reading his book and probably will write a special thanking letter to him for helping me to improve my English style. His canning picture on interface of marihuana-like plants on the cover is really impressive. The most impressive parts of the book are the term NOMA one can meet all throughout the book, which in reverse reading gives AMON... and the number 1,074 of members of the Royal Society participated in the polls of which 23% responded, indeed the very numbers are very interesting I should say, esp on page 101. Many quotations are impressive as well.
What can I say about Mr. Dawkins & Co.? I better keep enigmatic silence.

Besides I also viewed Underworld 3 movie by Sony Pictures... No comments.
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Lindsay
post Feb 25, 2009, 08:58 AM
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FOR ME, AN APOLOGY IS NEVER A PROBLEM
====================================
I should have prefaced my questions by saying: Some of these are the "nasty" kind of questions we theists often sling in the face of atheists.
Keep in mind: IMO, this is a dialogue. It is not a debate about who is right, or wrong. I want to learn from atheism, not judge it.

That being said, I would like to know if those who oppose religion are serious atheists or just mad at some religionists who offend them..
=========================================
One atheist, Goodskeptic, in another forum told me that atheists do not believe.
"There is no belief sir." wrote Goodskeptic.

A summary of my response:

Hmmm! My World Book Dictionary says: belief, is a noun. It is

1. what is held to be true; thing believed; opinion

2. acceptance as true, or real

3. faith; trust

4. religious faith, creed

[Middle English bileve] It is the general and more extensive word.

Faith applies to a belief without proof.

Conviction implies that the belief is unshakeable and undoubting.

=======================

How do atheists define belief?
Do atheist have any kind of faith?

========================
In my opinion, a "thing believed" is just that--a thing believed. So I ask:

Do you believe that there is no god?
Or, do you know there is no god?
If you know there is no god, show us the evidence. If you have no evidence, you have an opinion, a belief--which I respect.


As you say, "... as an atheist, I certainly don't think that it's impossible for God to exist - merely that there is no evidence to indicate he does."

==============
I agree with you. This is why I say: I do not believe in a god who is separate and apart from me, and existence, as I know it. But this does not make me an atheist; it makes me a unitheist.

GOD--take note of the acronym--in my humble opinion, is not an objective and three-dimensional being who is an objective being, with mass, one who takes up space and exists within the confines of time, but GOD is Being--within, through and around what we define as space/time.

Goodskeptic said, "Therefore I don't hold my position to be true - only probable."

LGK: Good for you!

LGK: BTW, my dictionary says that Opinion means: what one thinks. It is not so strong as knowledge; it is a judgement.


BTW, I respect all sincerely-held opinions--in good faith, with good will and in good humour.
=====================

TAKE NOTE: Beginning tomorrow, Jean and I will be on a visit to sunny, we hope, Florida, for three weeks. Keep us in your thoughts.
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Hey Hey
post Feb 25, 2009, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 25, 2009, 04:58 PM) *
TAKE NOTE: Beginning tomorrow, Jean and I will be on a visit to sunny, we hope, Florida, for three weeks. Keep us in your thoughts.
You have a good time. I look forward to your return. Respectfully, HH ...
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Rick
post Feb 25, 2009, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:33 AM) *
Btw Rick, any news about the g.a. at your backyard? I did not note anything in the news yet.

I'm turning blue from holding my breath waiting. Keeping the faith, though. Any day now, I'm absolutely sure.
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Enki
post Feb 25, 2009, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 25, 2009, 03:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:33 AM) *
Btw Rick, any news about the g.a. at your backyard? I did not note anything in the news yet.

I'm turning blue from holding my breath waiting. Keeping the faith, though. Any day now, I'm absolutely sure.


Keeping the faith is an important option. I am sure too, btw.
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Rick
post Feb 26, 2009, 07:55 AM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:42 PM) *

QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 25, 2009, 03:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:33 AM) *
Btw Rick, any news about the g.a. at your backyard? I did not note anything in the news yet.

I'm turning blue from holding my breath waiting. Keeping the faith, though. Any day now, I'm absolutely sure.

Keeping the faith is an important option. I am sure too, btw.

Yeah, but can you do anything to help the ludicrous feeling?
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Enki
post Feb 26, 2009, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 26, 2009, 07:55 AM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:42 PM) *

QUOTE(Rick @ Feb 25, 2009, 03:00 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 25, 2009, 07:33 AM) *
Btw Rick, any news about the g.a. at your backyard? I did not note anything in the news yet.

I'm turning blue from holding my breath waiting. Keeping the faith, though. Any day now, I'm absolutely sure.

Keeping the faith is an important option. I am sure too, btw.

Yeah, but can you do anything to help the ludicrous feeling?


Good question. Btw Rick have you looked more carefully over your backyard? Nothing yet?
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