questions about piracetam and alpha-gpc Options

[eraser]

hi,

i just ordered some piracetam powder in bulk and i've also ordered some alpha-gpc. i've tried piracetam once before with excellent results, the problem being that they did not last for more than a few weeks. i believe this may have been because i decided to remove alpha-gpc from the regimen and the choline bitartrate that i replaced it with wasn't cutting it. i also may have noticed the alteration before this. i made some dosing changes, tried taking the alpha-gpc again (i may have only done this for a day or two, so perhaps it didn't fully build up within my system) but alas, i couldn't get the same results that i had within the first few weeks, and was almost out of piracetam, so i stopped taking it altogether. i also became somewhat dehydrated and sickly around the time that i stopped taking it, and several days after i noticed some of the initial effects (like influxes of memories flashing triggered by objects or things in my environment, cross-association and visual supplementation that wasn't as present before) but i'm not sure if this sicklyness had to do with the piracetam/alpha-gpc withdrawal or was unrelated. nonetheless, the initial results were so helpful and impressive to me that i've decided to give it another shot.

my main questions are:

1. being 19 years old, do i really know what i'm getting into by taking alpha-gpc on a daily basis? i did not seem to have any negative side effects from taking it, though would it be safe to take on a daily basis? what if i continued it for years, with how much certainty am i not doing harm to myself? would i be best to use a more basic form of a choline precursor?

2. does any sort of tolerance develop with piracetam? how could i attenuate/prevent this?

3. what would the nature of the long term benefits from this treatment be? if my brain was structurally altered by this regimen, could i expect to retain some degree of effect after i stop taking them, say, after six months? are the structures created dependent on the substances i'm adding to my brain's equation, and will they still function once created but without the addition of piracetam/alpha-gpc? (i'm mostly interested in cross-hemispheric communication, here).


thanks in advance,

m

[LifeMirage]

hi,

i just ordered some piracetam powder in bulk and i've also ordered some alpha-gpc. i've tried piracetam once before with excellent results, the problem being that they did not last for more than a few weeks. i believe this may have been because i decided to remove alpha-gpc from the regimen and the choline bitartrate that i replaced it with wasn't cutting it. i also may have noticed the alteration before this. i made some dosing changes, tried taking the alpha-gpc again (i may have only done this for a day or two, so perhaps it didn't fully build up within my system) but alas, i couldn't get the same results that i had within the first few weeks, and was almost out of piracetam, so i stopped taking it altogether. i also became somewhat dehydrated and sickly around the time that i stopped taking it, and several days after i noticed some of the initial effects (like influxes of memories flashing triggered by objects or things in my environment, cross-association and visual supplementation that wasn't as present before) but i'm not sure if this sicklyness had to do with the piracetam/alpha-gpc withdrawal or was unrelated. nonetheless, the initial results were so helpful and impressive to me that i've decided to give it another shot.

my main questions are:

1. being 19 years old, do i really know what i'm getting into by taking alpha-gpc on a daily basis? i did not seem to have any negative side effects from taking it, though would it be safe to take on a daily basis? what if i continued it for years, with how much certainty am i not doing harm to myself? would i be best to use a more basic form of a choline precursor?

2. does any sort of tolerance develop with piracetam? how could i attenuate/prevent this?

3. what would the nature of the long term benefits from this treatment be? if my brain was structurally altered by this regimen, could i expect to retain some degree of effect after i stop taking them, say, after six months? are the structures created dependent on the substances i'm adding to my brain's equation, and will they still function once created but without the addition of piracetam/alpha-gpc? (i'm mostly interested in cross-hemispheric communication, here).


thanks in advance,

m

0. What are your cognitive goals?
1. I would suggest using it as needed or taking a few day off every week.
2. Tolerance can occur to some degree with most nootropics when taken daily or in higher doses. Taking a few days off each week may be of benefit.
3. Piracetam and Alpha GPC can cause long term changes in brain function. After a period of 6-12 months of use some people notice the effects can last years afterwards.

thanks for the reply, GodConsciousness. i have another question. would i benefit from adding dmae to my stack? apparently the mechanism of action is poorly understood, and it may actually 'block' choline from entering the brain, while somehow withholding choline that already exists inside of the brain. my understanding here is probably poor. i'm wondering if this could interfere with the alpha-GPC's function or if the two will have a synergistic effect. i don't really want to take an especially high dose of alpha-gpc, and will probably stick to 300 mg/day, which worked well for me before. i'm also considering taking cdp-choline one day and alpha-gpc the next, to avoid development of tolerance. i don't know if this makes sense or not or would be helpful. again, thanks for any replies.

Considering the lack of good human studies on DMAE and it's unknown interactions with Alpha GPC I would avoid it. Cycling between CDP-Choline and Alpha GPC would be a good idea.

0. my cognitive goals are essentially a treatment for depression and adhd, an increase in my memory/recall, higher mental energy, quicker reading comprehension/retention, enhancing my creativity and imagination, and my associative faculties. when i'm on this stack i also notice that i'm more comfortable around people and that my thought is more fluid/flexible in general. it really levels out my brain chemistry in a perfect way, and it doesn't have any of the hideous downsides that taking adderall does.


lifemirage, because i have something along the lines of adhd, i'm wondering how you might interpret this study on cdp-choline and how it might tie into things for me:

Effects of CDP-choline on striatal dopamine level and behavior in rats.
Shibuya M, Kageyama N, Taniguchi T, Hidaka H, Fujiwara M.

To further assess the effects of CDP (cytidine diphosphate)-choline on Parkinsonian symptoms, striatal dopamine (DA) was measured fluorometrically in rats after injection of CDP-choline. CDP-choline (300 mg/kg, i.p.) increased the DA content in the striatum (p less than 0.05) one hour after injection. The behavioral effect of CDP-choline was then tested in rats in which the unilateral nigro-striatal DA neurons had degenerated following an intranigral injection of 6-hydroxydopamine (6-OHDA). CDP-choline alone did not produce behavioral changes in these rats. However, pretreatment with a single dose of CDP-choline (900 mg/kg, i.p.) suppressed both the apomorphine-induced contralateral and the d-amphetamine-induced ipsilateral circling. The same dose of CDP-choline suppressed the number of treadmill revolutions in mice. On the other hand, a 7-day consecutive treatment with 300 mg/kg of CDP-choline enhanced the apomorphine-induced contralateral circling (by 42%, p less than 0.05). The same treatment with CDP-choline raised the striatal DA content by 29% (p less than 0.05) on the intact side, but not on the 6-OHDA injected side. These results indicate that CDP-choline has either a direct nor an indirect DA agonistic effect. The increase in DA content, decrease in locomotion and enhancement of the effect of apomorphine can be explained on the hypothesis that CDP-choline may act as an antagonist on the DA neurons and receptors. The validity of this apparently paradoxical use of CDP-choline with antagonistic effect on DA neurons in the treatment of Parkinson's disease is discussed.

the supposed simultaneous antagonistic effect on DA neurons and the increase in DA levels has me a little confused. thanks!

Extrapolating the meaning of this study for humans is difficult for several reasons. However the complexity of 1 compound having multiple and even seemingly counteracting effects is not uncommon. In time human research into oral doses should shed some light on this subject producing more useful data.

Considering the lack of good human studies on DMAE and it's unknown interactions with Alpha GPC I would avoid it. Cycling between CDP-Choline and Alpha GPC would be a good idea.

What about cycling between centrophenoxine and cdp-choline?

For the purpose of determining how it effects you I think it would be interesting and would like to see your experiences doing this.

Both CDP choline and Alpha GPC increase GH release. Alpha GPC also increases Nerve Growth Factor.

well, i noticed as much. the problem is whether or not this is safe.

I know this is a few months old, but I'm curious as to whether or not its safe too.

Both compounds are present in the human diet and our brains to that end research done examining their functions would confirm at some level in our bodies they are not only safe but required for proper functioning. Excessive doses and/or long term doses have not been proven safe, however from the limited research so far I don't see any serious concern from semi regular usage.