Supplements to help you experimenting Options

[SomaSteve]

Good day all a quick intro

Steve from Cape Town - Soma discussion founder, psytrance, memetics, cybernetics, semantics and counter culture my main area of focus at the moment.

Below some advice for those who experiment :-)



MD*A's main action is on the serotonin system so the idea is to replace serotonin when
you've indulged. The diminshing return you are currently experiencing is to be expected.

There are various sites you can visit which will explain in more detail but the general
principle is

Day before: 5-HTP(100mg) or Tryptophan(1g) (literature as to which is more effective is
confused. In my experience both work, with 5HTP being slightly more effective).

You can easily extend this therapy to a daily regimen; they are quite effective in
treating mild depression, and have been shown to act as good appetite control factors. It
can be expensive though. In south Africa 5-HTP is also marketed as 'Griffonia Bean
Extract' in the 'Green' range and is quite affordable, since that is a local product.

Day of: 2-3 hours before take another 100mg (5-HTP) or 1g (Tryptophan)

Afterwards: take another dose once you are good and down

Keep taking for several days afterwards.

Note: I have experienced mild nausea from these products, and find that they work best
with food. Also - taking them at night can cause vivid dreams. For some this is a bonus,
but I preferred taking them in the morning.

Taking 5HTP or Tryptophan will also enhance the e-Experience so if you are experiencing
diminishing returns from your pills, invest in a supplement rather than multiple pills
first. It's cheaper and less harmful to your body.

A similar plan can be followed if you are taking amphetamine based drugs (MDMA is also one
of these, but its primary action is serotonin rather than dopamine as with coke, speed,
meth, CAT etc)

The supplement you will take for those would be DLPA or tyrosine. Both are involved in the
dopamine production system, and so will help with recovery.

Lastly - taking either of thse supplements are possible for the psychedelics.
Tyrosine/DLPA has been recommended to me for LSD - anecdotal evidence is that it helps
with the confused state, minmising that while leaving the visuals intact. I personally
cannot attest to that.

Long term 5HTP use (several weeks) resulted in a muchly enhanced psychedelic effects. So I
can definitely recommend that.

You can also take B-vitamins in recovery phase, as well as anti-oxidants like Vitamin C
etc. Also important is to hydrate (duh). I generally take a Berocca when I get home and
chase it down with some 5HTP and Tyrosine. (or is that the other way round?)

There are also other supplements which you could investigate (like Glutamine) but
Tyrosine/%HTP etc should be a good first start, and really help with the Tuesday-blues.

[Shawn]

hello Steve,

it's nice to have you with us here today.  Basically, I agree with everything you say and am glad to see others are informed of such things and are informing others as well.   MDMA works primarily thru the serotonergic system, which is why supplementing with 5-HTP would be recommended here.   5-HTP is preferable to L-trypophan.  L-tryptophan was a popular, over-the-counter "natural amino acid" recommended for weight control and relief of insomnia, depression and stress until 1989, when its use was linked to 38 deaths and 1,500 cases of a painful, debilitating blood-and-muscle disorder called eusinophilia-myaglia syndrome. Investigators traced the outbreak to the Showa Denko company, a $3-billion-a-year Japanese chemical manufacturer that apparently caused the disease by using a new, genetically-engineered bacteria to manufacture contaminated L-tryptophan.  While this is unlikely to happen today, there's still a slight probability that taking L-tryptophan carries a greater risk than taking 5-HTP.  To my knowledge, there have never been any reports of contaminated 5-HTP or serious side effects.  In fact, I take 50 mg on a daily basis.  Also, B6 acts synergistically with 5-HTP in the production of serotonin, so I'd recommend taking either a separate B vitamin supplement or a multivitamin with your 5-HTP.  Also, 5-HTP works best when taken without protein since other amino acids interfere with its transport (when it gets converted to L-trypophan) past the blood-brain barrier.  The best case would be to take 5-HTP with something sugary, like a coke.  In fact, I've had some very pleasant experiences taking 100 mg of 5-HTP and 1 g of tyrosine on an empty stomach with a couple of cokes.  If you take too much 5-HTP, usually more than 100 mg, then some gets converted to melatonin, and so you'll likely feel sleepy.

Yes, L-tyrosine is a good supplement too.  Also, L-deprenyl is a 'smart drug' that potentiates dopaminergic activation.  It's very cheap, and so this might be something people would be interested in trying.  I've never tried DLPA, though I'm sort of curious to try now that you've brought it up.

I've had pleasant experiences with phosphatidyl choline (not lecithin), which presumably would increase acetyl choline synthesis.

I'm not so sure about the L-glutamine you mentioned.  I've tried it as a separate supplement, but have never really noticed any beneficial effects unless it's been part of a glutamine-enhanced protein shake.  

Last, but not least, is acetyl L-carnatine (ALCAR), which is pretty expensive, but worth it, I think.  It plays a role in enhancing energy production, and some studies have shown that it also increases neurotransmitter production.

Anyway, that's all the supplements that come to mind at the moment, but I'll post more if I come across them.

take care,
Shawn

[dalus-eKapa]

Hiya! Thanks for the most interesting postings! Been looking for something like this. At a base level though - this is my quandary:

As a layman in terms of science and pharmaceuticals, it's much easier to get your hands on a controlled substances than walking into the local pharmacy and ask for a product containing a particular enhancer for this or that. When my serotonin is at a low what should I ask for at the pharmacy and vice versa what should I ask for when my dopamine levels are way down there and so are my emotions!

Great to see that someone from Cape Town started this thread!

[Darksanity]

Is it better to take 5-HTP in the morning or before going to sleep?

[Hey Hey]

Is it better to take 5-HTP in the morning or before going to sleep?

As a sleep aid it is probably better to take it before going to sleep!

But seriously, it is often recommended to take it on an empty stomach before sleep, and sometimes in smaller doses throughout the day.

But more seriously, why do YOU want to take it?

And note, L-tryptophan (tryptophan is the natural food source precursor to 5-HTP) is again available at pharmaceutical grade OTC (in the U.S.A).

Watch out for side-effects and interactions with any prescription medication, esp any neuroleptics.

[Darksanity]

I'm just curious