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Joesus
post Aug 13, 2008, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE


But then addictions do create some strange drama in some folks.

This seems to say that we don't have the guts to explore your sermon and our own inadequacies.

Sermon is a label one uses when they experience their life coming at them rather than it being created by them. The victim mentality is something that is prevalent in society.
QUOTE
Then you go on talking about people who don't have those guts being self absorbed, paranoid delusional and then finish with 'addictions do create some strange drama in some folks'. This final statement has nothing to do with your post, but seems to attack those that have had addictions and spoken on it in this thread.

This post is on addictions. It's all relevant to the topic. People only feel attacked when they feel they have something to defend.
QUOTE

Don't say only Lindsay has a problem with Joesus, because it clearly upsets quite a few posters and we all had this discussion last year.

And that discussion dribbled down to the reality of perspective......
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Joe: Name one thing you've taken as interesting and/or changed your view from anyone here on Brainmeta. If you've not taken a single piece of information into your self, then you are also self-absorbed with personal delusions - or simply know-it-all.

I can only say that my interests are piqued from moment to moment. I have listened and responded as I am inspired in the moment. If you are asking me to change with the desires of those who have responded to my postings, I don't think that is the intent of this media or the truth of reality.
Obviously no one can contain all that there is.....

QUOTE

Back on topic: Love, regardless if selfless or animalistic, is still about entities gravitating towards each other. I don't think the love I'm speaking of is the same as your spiritual love. That love is not of biology and we are unable to feel it because that means we're using our senses. I think we can't begin to imagine pure love.

Everything biological is of spirit. Just because you don't believe in it or recognize it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that you can't experience it.
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Lindsay
post Aug 13, 2008, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Aug 13, 2008, 07:35 AM) *

... In my opinion, the above is badly constructed "preaching".


QUOTE
The quote above seems to me to be a decription of a state of affairs, i.e.,


"When a persons becomes whole instead of fragmented..." The fact that he is describing spiritual matters doesn't make his assertions or descriptions preaching.

Preaching is advising someone on what he ought to do.
OK, so in your opinion they are assertions.

May I ask: Are all assertions aimed at others valid and constructive? Of course not!

Do we accept that all assertions given to us are valid? Of course not!

One writer I read on the "art of preaching" said that a good sermon, unlike a speech, does more than just give information. Good sermons it inspires us to make decisions and to take action.

BTW, IMO, there are some good sermons, with assertions--and I have heard some--which spur me to action.

But there are also boring ones, which I make me to go to JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ.....ZZZZZZZZZZZ...jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj...zzzzzzzzzzz.............. biggrin.gif
Worst of all are assertions, which go on and on, and contain any number of MIXED MESSAGES.

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Trip like I do
post Aug 13, 2008, 05:11 PM
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.... then again, some people can also be too smart! I wonder if being smart is an addiction? The innate quest for knowledge as the ultimate human addiction.
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lucid_dream
post Aug 13, 2008, 06:50 PM
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Lindsay, some people do find Joesus' posts informative and insightful, and do not interpret it necessarily as preaching. You're always free to disregard what he posts, or if its mere presence offends you for some reason, then bring up his profile page and select "Ignore User" from the "Profile Options" drop-down menu.
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Joesus
post Aug 13, 2008, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE
IMO, there are good sermons, which spur me to action. But there are also boring ones, which I make me to go to JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJZZZZZZZZZZZjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjzzzzzzzzzzz..


Regardless of the grammar, you don't know psychologically correct that statement is... We all make the world what it is!
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Phi
post Aug 14, 2008, 03:57 AM
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Is that a sense of humility?
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Lindsay
post Aug 14, 2008, 07:32 AM
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One writer I read on the "art of preaching" said that a good sermon, unlike a speech, does more than just give information. Good sermons inspire us to make decisions and to take action.

BTW, IMO, there are some good sermons, with assertions--and I have heard some--which spur me to action.

Worst of all are "sermons" or speeches which go on and on, making assertions filled with any number of MIXED MESSAGES.
There is a whole chapter about this in the important book by Don Keough.

ABOUT HIS BOOK
http://www.pathwayschurch.ca/forum/showthr...&pid=671#pid671

I heard this TV program

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/08/1...with-don-keough
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Joesus
post Aug 14, 2008, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Aug 14, 2008, 11:57 AM) *

Is that a sense of humility?

It is regardless of humility.
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Joesus
post Aug 14, 2008, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE
One writer I read on the "art of preaching" said that a good sermon, unlike a speech, does more than just give information. Good sermons inspire us to make decisions and to take action.

BTW, IMO, there are some good sermons, with assertions--and I have heard some--which spur me to action.


Obviously different people are inspired by different things. If I had the inclination to want to inspire something in someone I would use truth to contrast illusion and allow freedom of choice or free will to take its course. Since I have a feel for the difference between inspiration and manipulation what intrigues me more is the needs people put on justification of choice, the need to refer to volumes of text to back their choice up and how freedom becomes a definition taken from a two volume dictionary.

What becomes obvious to me is that freedom of being or the ability to live in the present moment eludes those who need to justify themselves with definitions and ideals that are made by someone else.
I would say we all have the capability to free ourselves from the ego which defines itself by such methods, and for the ego truth and freedom becomes boxed within the confines of scripture, and scripture is idealized as the sermons of ideas that one is personally drawn to or idolized rather than reality based on universal truths.

It all becomes personal the road to self realization, and some easily get sidetracked by wasting time trying to measure themselves against others and the world. The need to justify ones self is the illusion of the ego, and once one understands the ego and how it fails to serve us when our awareness is absorbed in definition we expand our sense of being and our intellect.

Invariably we find the perfection in all things of contrast, and the reality that we create these things to better understand how choice works for and against us in the creation of the personal universe.

Some move through the process quickly and others linger for long periods of time, even lifetimes to their need to cling to their egoic self measure. Tho we all have to make up our minds sometime (in every moment) some have a greater sense of themselves than others, and without the crutch of leaning on what others say are bold enough to live their lives regardless of the praise and condemnation that comes from the diversity of personal opinion and without feeling that something can be lessened in their being by the things that are a part of their personal universe.

The ability to do this with humility and freedom from the arrogance of the ego cannot be defined in any scripture. It is discovered, sometimes with the help of someone who has actually made the journey themselves.
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Joesus
post Aug 14, 2008, 09:53 AM
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QUOTE
Worst of all are "sermons" or speeches which go on and on, making assertions filled with any number of MIXED MESSAGES.
There is a whole chapter about this in the important book by Don Keough.

ABOUT HIS BOOK
http://www.pathwayschurch.ca/forum/showthr...&pid=671#pid671

I heard this TV program

http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/08/1...with-don-keough


Comment by Russell Fuhrman on Wednesday, Aug 13 at 05:06 AM

People like Mr. Keough find themselves rich and lionized by society after having devoted their lives to things like selling sugar water. I wonder if Father Hesburg ever thought about or even discussed with Keough the ethical implications of how he got so rich and powerful-Charlie should have.
Sending Report...
Abuse Reported


Obviously everyone has an opinion, evidently Mr. Fuhrman doesn't hold Mr. Keoughs book with the same important reverence as the good Rev.


Life goes on.....
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Rick
post Aug 14, 2008, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Aug 13, 2008, 05:25 PM) *

QUOTE(Rick @ Aug 13, 2008, 07:35 AM) *

... In my opinion, the above is badly constructed "preaching".


QUOTE
The quote above seems to me to be a decription of a state of affairs, i.e.,


"When a persons becomes whole instead of fragmented..." The fact that he is describing spiritual matters doesn't make his assertions or descriptions preaching.

Preaching is advising someone on what he ought to do.
OK, so in your opinion they are assertions.

May I ask: Are all assertions aimed at others valid and constructive? Of course not!

Do we accept that all assertions given to us are valid? Of course not!

One writer I read on the "art of preaching" said that a good sermon, unlike a speech, does more than just give information. Good sermons it inspires us to make decisions and to take action.

BTW, IMO, there are some good sermons, with assertions--and I have heard some--which spur me to action.

But there are also boring ones, which I make me to go to JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ.....ZZZZZZZZZZZ...jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj...zzzzzzzzzzz.............. biggrin.gif
Worst of all are assertions, which go on and on, and contain any number of MIXED MESSAGES.

Lindsay, you misquoted me. That's wrong.
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Lindsay
post Aug 14, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Rick, you wrote: "Lindsay, you misquoted me. That's wrong."

I apologize. I guess the mix up happened when I quoted a quote from you in which you included a comment of mine regarding what I thought of J's statement. Clicking the + brings out the full quote, which includes what you call J's assertions, and my comment on them as "preaching".
======================================
Be that as it may, the challenge remains regarding what to do about the so-called assertions, which I feel are filled with many unhelpful MIXED MESSAGES, and are not just aimed at me. For me, this thread is way off topic and is no longer any fun. On to more enjoyable communications and--as recommended by the moderator--ignoring those I find otherwise.
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Joesus
post Aug 14, 2008, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE
ignoring those I find otherwise.

Ah, the personal approach. Much more sensible than trying to create rumors of a sermonizing anti-Christ.. smile.gif
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Rick
post Aug 14, 2008, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Aug 14, 2008, 01:47 PM) *

Rick, you wrote: "Lindsay, you misquoted me. That's wrong."

I apologize. I guess the mix up happened ...

Thank you. That builds trust.
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trojan_libido
post Aug 18, 2008, 11:09 PM
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Another example of a derailed thread.
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Joesus
post Aug 19, 2008, 08:31 AM
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It's all a matter of perspective. You can see the glass half full or half empty.
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Lindsay
post Aug 19, 2008, 04:26 PM
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"Another example of a derailed thread."

TL, sad, eh?
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trojan_libido
post Aug 19, 2008, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Aug 19, 2008, 05:31 PM) *

It's all a matter of perspective. You can see the glass half full or half empty.
Some things are black and white, not shades of gray. Personally I only see the glass as holding a drink, you sir, spill the lot.
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Joesus
post Aug 19, 2008, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE

Some things are black and white, not shades of gray. Personally I only see the glass as holding a drink, you sir, spill the lot.

No I drink it and pass the remnants. What remains is truth and what washes away wasn't meant to be kept.

As for everything being black and white, that is what most people can accept right up to their death.
Fortunately God/consciousness can out wait the stubbornness of human inflexibility.
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Phi
post Aug 20, 2008, 04:03 AM
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Some may be addicted to the art of introduction, others the art of defense for viewpoints. Back to addictions you
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Phi
post Aug 20, 2008, 04:07 AM
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I can honestly say that Joesus has inspired me to try to be re-addicted to meditation and other forms of self-contemplation. Somehow it has also led to the re-introduction of physical conditioning which reflects something that ill start a new topic on
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Lindsay
post Aug 20, 2008, 06:50 AM
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Phi, ABOUT PHYSICAL CONDITIONING, CHECK OUT:

The Five Tibetan Rites: Exercises for Healing, Rejuvenation, and Longevity

By Mary Kurus

Copyright Mary Kurus 2001, All Rights Reserved
Background

In 1985 a book called The Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth written by Peter Kelder was published which for the first time fully described an exercise program for "youthing". This is an exercise program used by Tibetan monks to live long, vibrant and healthy lives. In fact, this book states that many have lived longer than most can imagine by following the program often called the "Five Tibetan Rites". The benefits are described in this book and a subsequent book 2 with an expanded description of the program by the publisher called the Ancient Secret of the Fountain of Youth - Book 2, a companion to the original book by Peter Kelder. Many thanks to the publisher Doubleday for such a special an expanded explanation of the Five Rites.
Potential Benefits of the Five Rites

The authors provide many examples of the benefits of the "Five Tibetan Rites" including the following: looking much younger; sleeping soundly; waking up feeling refreshed and energetic; release from serious medical problems including difficulties with spines; relief from problems with joints; release from pain; better memory; arthritis relief; weight loss; improved vision; youthing instead of aging; greatly improved physical strength, endurance and vigor; improved emotional and mental health; enhanced sense of well being and harmony; and very high overall energy.
How the Five Rites Work .......
========================

http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm
I started using this system in 2005. I was 75. I am very pleased with the results.
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Phi
post Aug 20, 2008, 06:03 PM
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Thanks for the lead Lindsay
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Lindsay
post Aug 20, 2008, 10:37 PM
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Welcome, Phi. As a Spiritual exercise: Have you heard of the writing of Eckhart Tolle,
THE POWER OF THE NOW--a Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment? I strongly recommend it.
Interestingly, he warns against the danger of "thinking"--allowing the MInd (Psyche) and the Body (soma) to draw us away from the power of NOW.
Anyone, I would love to know: Who is familiar with his ideas? What do you feel, not just "think", about them? About his latest book, http://www.EckhartTolle.com
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trojan_libido
post Aug 20, 2008, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Aug 20, 2008, 08:57 AM) *

QUOTE

Some things are black and white, not shades of gray. Personally I only see the glass as holding a drink, you sir, spill the lot.

No I drink it and pass the remnants. What remains is truth and what washes away wasn't meant to be kept.

As for everything being black and white, that is what most people can accept right up to their death.
Fortunately God/consciousness can out wait the stubbornness of human inflexibility.

Notice that I said 'Some things are black and white'
You said 'As for everything being black and white'

Thats a big difference.
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Joesus
post Aug 20, 2008, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 21, 2008, 07:38 AM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Aug 20, 2008, 08:57 AM) *

QUOTE

Some things are black and white, not shades of gray. Personally I only see the glass as holding a drink, you sir, spill the lot.

No I drink it and pass the remnants. What remains is truth and what washes away wasn't meant to be kept.

As for everything being black and white, that is what most people can accept right up to their death.
Fortunately God/consciousness can out wait the stubbornness of human inflexibility.

Notice that I said 'Some things are black and white'
You said 'As for everything being black and white'

Thats a big difference.
Glad you noticed..
There is hope for humanity after all. Unless you want to give it up to some serendipitous chemical reaction that caused your ability to be aware of the fact.
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Trip like I do
post Aug 21, 2008, 02:06 PM
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I'm currently addicted to watching CBC television's Olympic coverage, as well as, NBC's and TSN's coverage.... Usain Bolt and Michel Phelps
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ole meph
post Aug 21, 2008, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Aug 20, 2008, 10:37 PM) *

Welcome, Phi. As a Spiritual exercise: Have you heard of the writing of Eckhart Tolle,
THE POWER OF THE NOW--a Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment? I strongly recommend it.
Interestingly, he warns against the danger of "thinking"--allowing the MInd (Psyche) and the Body (soma) to draw us away from the power of NOW.
Anyone, I would love to know: Who is familiar with his ideas? What do you feel, not just "think", about them? About his latest book, http://www.EckhartTolle.com


I have read Tolle and find him simply a self-help guru.
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Phi
post Aug 21, 2008, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE(ole meph @ Aug 21, 2008, 03:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Aug 20, 2008, 10:37 PM) *

Welcome, Phi. As a Spiritual exercise: Have you heard of the writing of Eckhart Tolle,
THE POWER OF THE NOW--a Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment? I strongly recommend it.
Interestingly, he warns against the danger of "thinking"--allowing the MInd (Psyche) and the Body (soma) to draw us away from the power of NOW.
Anyone, I would love to know: Who is familiar with his ideas? What do you feel, not just "think", about them? About his latest book, http://www.EckhartTolle.com


I have read Tolle and find him simply a self-help guru.


I always like to hear perspective, no matter what the topic. What did you learn? and did you have something alternative to share?
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Lindsay
post Aug 23, 2008, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE
I always like to hear perspective, no matter what the topic. What did you learn? and did you have something alternative to share?
Phi, are you asking our newbie, OM, this question? Or me?

My question to OM is: Is there something intrinsically wrong with offering self-help? Especially when it really does inspire people to help themselves?

What am I learning from Tolle's book?

One thing I like is that Tolle puts complex ideas in simple terms. He says what many, like Whitehead and Hartshorne already say, but do not say so well. I am ready to share, with anyone interested, what I have learned and am learning.
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