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> If You Were Given the Choice, What Would You Choose, Any Number of Lives? Or Just This One?, Let us give our answer plus our reasons for the choice.
Lindsay
post Jun 11, 2008, 08:31 PM
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THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL THREAD SIMILAR TO ONE I HAVE GOING IN SCIENCEAGOGO. LET US SEE HOW IT GOES AND WHERE IT LEADS. IF IT DIES FROM LACK OF RESPONSE, SO BE IT!
=================================================================
Let us use our imagination as we consider the following.

You--I, we--are told by some inner voice, spirit guide, whatever: "You are at the end of your life. You have lived before and you are convinced that there is some kind of life after this one. But you do not feel it is the kind taught by most religions--one with a judgment day followed getting assigned to a heaven or a hell.

If you were given the opportunity to have another go at living, would you? And what kind of life would you want it to be?

By the way, you are told that the new life will have the same kind of crises--dangers and opportunities--you have had in this life. However, there will be the opportunity to build on past experiences and to improve things for all future lives.

Knowing that there will be crises--dangers and opportunities--what would we choose? Would you be willing to take the risk? Or would you prefer to not to bother.

Me? I would be willing to take the risk.

REINCARNATION. WHAT DO YOU KNOW AND FEEL ABOUT IT?
Some who believe in reincarnation--about which I keep and open mind--say: One way or another, life in inevitable. Help is available, but it is up to us make things worse, or better.
Or do you feel we only live once, period.
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Joesus
post Jun 11, 2008, 10:52 PM
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Rather than using fictitious imagination, why not use intuitive cognition.
Then there will be no playing what ifs but rather participation in what is.
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Lindsay
post Jun 12, 2008, 05:11 AM
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Speaking pneumatologically--that is from the spirit--individuals are free to follow their "bliss", as Joseph Campbell called it. In other words, use whatever turns you on. You are even free just to lurk.

But, guests--and the "Last Click" button shows there are many of you: It would be nice to have a one word comment, even a grunt. smile.gif
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Joesus
post Jun 12, 2008, 09:14 AM
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QUOTE
Speaking pneumatologically--that is from the spirit--individuals are free to follow their "bliss", as Joseph Campbell called it. In other words, use whatever turns you on. You are even free just to lurk.

I don't think Joseph Campbells reference to "Follow Your Bliss" was referring to, doing whatever turns you on.
If that were true, then he was referring to any desire such as sex, drugs, stalking, religious jihad etc.
I'm pretty sure "Following Your Bliss" has much more to do with intelligent choice and that which expands your sense of self permanently rather than temporarily.

General amusement in the form of instant gratification was not exactly what he meant by being spiritual or as you put it pneumatological. There are a lot of forms of entertainment that are simply, mental masturbation.

Regardless of that fact, I'm getting that intelligence is not required in the approach to this game.

Perhaps if you let us in on what it is you are entertaining yourself with you might get some more participation.

Fantasy games that are labeled as coming from spirit are much more interesting if one knows what they are going to get out of it.
After all, if you want to turn someone on you would have to offer them something to get, blissed out on. That is after all what people want from spirit, something from their investment, otherwise what does God have to do with Bliss, if God can't provide?
Isn't that the way God works in relationship to reincarnation? God offers one something worth their wile in a life on earth, rather than to be bored in unborn death.... ohmy.gif wink.gif
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Joesus
post Jun 12, 2008, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE
Let us use our imagination even to the extent of using fiction. Let Us Assume that all of us belong to a group of un-born fetuses, existing in a kind of limbo--children who, within a few hours, or so, will begin the process of being born.

I'm your Fetus...... I'm your fire of Joy-desire... wink.gif
QUOTE


We are visited by angel-like spiritual guides. The guides bring us to consciousness long enough for us to understand the crisis--the danger and opportunity before us. Those of us who have lived before this will remember--most memories will be vague--the kind of Life We Lived Before. A certain few--believers in reincarnation--will have strong memories.

OK, spirit guides bring us to consciousness of crisis and danger...WTF? Uhmm... assuming spirit Guides are coming from God, and they're helpful.... why do they represent a God that creates a precipice to life that is a crisis and danger?
I'm not liking the way this fiction is going, so I'll change it a bit.

I'm going to be fully conscious of my past life, and the spirit Guide will be a living link between my own memories and conscious omniscience. Of course since I'm cognizant of my relationship to God or that omniscience in my past life, I have some understanding in the relationship of life and spirit within life, and so I know where I'm at, but not necessarily the choices that I'll make in the futures as they unfold.
Knowing that there is no finality to the ongoing experience while in this state of transition, what I do experience is no boundaries in movement of in creating of experience in sensory images. With this freedom I quickly experience before the next incarnation the extent of cause and effect in how I use my mind and intentions to expand and contract my sense of self.

QUOTE

The first angels says: "Let Me Warn You: Though There Will Be Some Joyful times, Your Next Life Will Not be All Sweetness and Light. All of You Will be Faced With Challenges. Depending On the Kind of Life You Have lived Before, Some of You Will be Faced With Serious Challenges, Pain and Suffering. Some of You it Will Even Experience Horrible and Even Tragic Circumstances. Some Will Live Short Lives. Others Will Have Relatively Happy and Long Lives.

Omniscience and experience tells me suffering is through attachment to experience and so it is how I decide to see my life that dictates how I choose to experience it. In the many lifetimes that I have already experienced I have learned somewhat that happiness is a state of mind not relative to surroundings and conditions but in how I choose to live my life.
I have failed to grasp this to the extent that I have not freed myself from attachments to relationships and objects of desire and so I am once again faced with the reality of rebirth so that I may once again experience the nature of desire and its corresponding ties to the physical experience.
The challenge always remains the same in any life, will I fully awaken to myself or will I be hypnotized by shiny objects and be caught like a fish on a lure to be consumed by the external illusions of imagination?
Tho I may not retain this in my new body I still have the ability to be cognizant of myself and my actions.

QUOTE

"This is Why You are Given a Choice. You Can Choose to Be Born, Or You Can Choose The Kind of Oblivion from Which You Just Now Came?"

I have no choice in the matter of reincarnation because it is the extension of my spirit and the choices I have made in previous lives that are the energy of momentum that propels me into further experiences of creation. As I refine my sense of self the decisions I make are what elevate me into higher states of conscious awareness and there are so many chances I have to make choices to realize this. In fact I have lifetimes to make these choices. I can evolve or devolve, that is the freedom of human spirit.
Tho this transition in life experience is much more freeing than the physical restraints of belief my own energies are what are moving me toward rebirth and I am not being manipulated by any God that is separate from myself for I am the image in every way of God.

QUOTE

"Some of you have lived before. You will be born with a vague memory of your past experiences--good and bad. You are very curious about the kind of parents you will have, and you have many questions about the dangers, opportunities, standard of living and the joys you might, or might not, have before you make your choice. Some of You Like to Bargain. Some of You Have No Desire to Live Again.

In the transition between lives I have memories of the past but in this place I have no boundaries nor any fear. Because of the choices I have made and their energetics the wave of creation has already begun. The Future is laid out like a road map. There is a starting point and even an ending with highlighted points of relative importance to goals I will or won't reach, depending on the choices I make along the way.
My parents are known to me, they were brother, sister, lover, wife, husband in another life. What they were in those lives were only shells of who they are here in this place of transition and they are inside of me now.
When we meet again I will not recognize them as my parents but I will for a moment remember they are the spiritual Mother and Father that is the life within all life.

QUOTE
"But, for some of you, this is your first time. At Birth you will have no memory, or evidence of life beyond birth. You will tend to take life as it comes, one day at a time.

Oh I remember the first time, it was a glorious life, without the energetics of memories that would weigh me down in who or what I am, life was perfect innocence. Without the Karmic influences of past egoic impressions life was a garden of pure potential. There were no obstacles or boundaries of any kind. Life was lived as if I was sitting under a wish fulfilling tree. Every thought was instantly translated into reality, every sense filled with the Bliss of omniscient, omnipresent being, and it lasted for tens of thousands of years...

QUOTE

"Before you choose life, or oblivion, are there any questions?"
God? We'll talk about that later."


One question: Life and oblivion, this idea that you are presenting. Do you believe it the way you described it here?
And I'm looking forward to more God Talk.
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Lindsay
post Jun 13, 2008, 07:53 PM
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Accepting the experimental nature of my thread, a poster in scienceagogo suggested we take a look at the following question:
QUOTE
"Knowing what you know about life, do you think it is ethical to bring babies into the world, and why?"


I responded: I said that this thread was an experiment. Thanks for your suggestion.

This prompted me to come up with the following scenario:

You--I, we--are at the end of life, but we have the conviction that there is some kind of life after death, but not the kind taught by most religions--one with a judgment day followed by being assigned to a heaven or hell.

If we were given the opportunity to choose, or NOT to choose, another opportunity to live, would we? Or wouldn't we?

The new life will have the same crises--dangers and opportunities--most lives do. Naturally, we will also have the opportunity to build on past experiences and on what we have learned in this life. This will prepare us to improve things in the next.

Knowing that there will be crises--dangers and opportunities--what would we choose? Would you be willing the take the risk? Or not?

I would.

Those who believe in reincarnation say: We have no choice in the matter.
Besides J, are there any others who think that reincarnation is a possibility? Regarding reincarnation: I keep an open mind.
===================
To the question posed by my friend, I responded: I believe that every child has the right to be born into a good home--not necessarily materially rich--where he/she is wanted, loved and educated to be a truly human and humane being.

I am not saying: There ought to be laws like they have in China, but I am not happy when ill-prepared--even inhumane--parents are allowed to have any number of children who are then condemned by circumstances to live in poverty and without the full benefit of parental love..
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Joesus
post Jun 13, 2008, 11:16 PM
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If you believe God is all around you then you must believe that God is in the birthing of children even in the midst of conditions that are relative to every scenario. Whether one decides in their lifetime not to have children there will be someone who will, because that is part of their destiny in life, just as it is the destiny of one to decide not to.
Freedom of will does not limit itself to the images conjured in a single lifetime, nor to the ignorant mind that can't see beyond ones own ideals or limits of vision. We are much bigger than that, tho we often fail to live up to our potential in the perceptions and unconscious programs we swirl about in.
Time is a convenience to experience, however the universe does not exist as a product of time but rather a product of consciousness or the absolute in activity, or God if you will. Past, present, future, all exist now.
Those who live in the now can perceive visions of the future just as easily as one can perceive the past.


This is something even physics considers as a reality.
The interpretation of quantum physics becomes much simpler if one assumes that time goes both forwards and backwards! - http://www.goertzel.org/papers/timepap.html

QUOTE

Those who believe in reincarnation say: We have no choice in the matter.

This is a statement made in the interpretation of reincarnation and those who believe in it, and is what you heard, or rather a relative truth.
Some Buddhists believe reincarnation is without choice or that it is the destiny of man following every death, but that is not the belief of the Hindu. Advaita Vedanta and even Biblical references to Jesus' and John the Baptists previous incarnations of Elisha and Elijah speak of becoming conscious enough to volunteer to incarnate as servants to humanity. In Johns prior relationship to the birth of Jesus and his secondary position to Jesus, John was Elijah, Jesus/Elisha's Teacher.
In relation to Karma, until one becomes consciously aware, the unconscious actions of human life create energies that form seeds that sprout in other lifetimes.
What you sew ye shall reap...

Everything follows choice. The relative mind that can't perceive God as anything other than what language can describe, does not understand the nature of consciousness nor conscious choice of a fully conscious human. It does recognize what it calls consciousness and what it calls choice, but it does not recognize God nor man in the image of God, nor God's choice.
Man barely comprehends any participation in a consciousness previous to becoming a meat puppet programmed by peer regulation and repetitive imagery.

Man would have to rearrange his thinking and put down the God made in the image of man, and open himself to the image that he is made, in the image of God.
Spirit rather than the mortal imaginings of flesh.

If only you could imagine the power of thought, even if it is in the subconscious and what affect it has in creating the universe you live in, have lived and will live in..
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Lindsay
post Jun 14, 2008, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE
If you believe God is all around you then you must believe that God is in....

In my opinion--always subject to change--GØD is that which is in and through all that IS, within and around. In my opinion, only bitter nihilists, bent on doing evil, are true atheists. The biggest problem of the humane atheist is one of semantics.
What do you think, atheists?
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Joesus
post Jun 14, 2008, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE

I am not saying: There ought to be laws like they have in China, but I am not happy when ill-prepared--even inhumane--parents are allowed to have any number of children who are then condemned by circumstances to live in poverty and without the full benefit of parental love..

Well then your happiness is only subject to your perception of Gods creation. If God is in and around everything, in your opinion, God obviously has an agenda that conflicts with your opinion of happiness and humanity.
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Lindsay
post Jun 15, 2008, 11:41 AM
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I have edited the first post to conform to the following:

THIS IS AN EXPERIMENTAL THREAD SIMILAR TO ONE I HAVE GOING IN SCIENCE AGOGO. LOTS OF RESPONSES. LET US SEE HOW IT GOES AND WHERE IT LEADS. IF IT DIES FROM LACK OF RESPONSE, SO BE IT!
=================================================================
Let us use our imagination as we consider the following.

You--I, we--are told by some inner voice, spirit guide, whatever: "You are at the end of your life. You have lived before and you are convinced that there is some kind of life after this one. But you do not feel it is the kind taught by most religions--one with a judgment day followed getting assigned to a heaven or a hell.

If you were given the opportunity to have another go at living, would you? And what kind of life would you want it to be?

By the way, you are told that the new life will have the same kind of crises--dangers and opportunities--you have had in this life. However, there will be the opportunity to build on past experiences and to improve things for all future lives.

Knowing that there will be crises--dangers and opportunities--what would we choose? Would you be willing to take the risk? Or would you prefer to not to bother.

Me? I have had a lot of crises in my life, but I would be willing to take the risk of experiencing life, or lives, again.

REINCARNATION. WHAT DO YOU KNOW AND FEEL ABOUT IT?
Some who believe in reincarnation--about which I keep and open mind--say: One way or another, life in inevitable. Help is available, but it is up to us make things worse, or better.
Or do you feel we only live once? Period.
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Joesus
post Jun 15, 2008, 01:59 PM
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Judgment day in the hands of the ego...... who hasn't thought of that before... rolleyes.gif
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