What does anyone think of Astral Projection? Options

[Laz]

Does it exist? if so what is happening?
I'm half convinced that it is a myth and is just a result of the stimulation of the Angular Gyrus!

[Shawn]

setting aside the question regarding the reality of astral projection for the moment, I'm curious why you believe such experiences may be the result of stimulation of the angular gyrus, Laz.  Ã‚ Is there something (fMRI or PET experiment) you pulled up on Pubmed about astral projection or other extraordinary experiences that implicates the angular gyrus?   What's so special about the angular gyrus?

[Laz]

What's special about that region of the brain? You tell me!  ;)

I am aware of experiments that have shown experiences that are shockingly similar to Astral projection, although I am not well versed enough to  name the people involved or the techniques used.

The question was more a case of; is it a physical stimulation of part of the brain that causes them, or is it truely an altered state of conciousness that touches one of the fabled 7 mental planes?

In my own experiece of meditating and trying to find a way out of the body, I am not able to achieve an astral projection, but would love to know how?

[Laz]

I'm guessing that you know all about this already Shawn but i found a reference on the internet to one of the experiments i was talking about:

September 18, 2002; Neurologist Professor Olaf Blanke and colleagues at Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland were using electrodes to stimulate the brain.

They found that stimulating one spot - the angular gyrus in the right cortex - repeatedly caused out-of-body experiences (OBEs).

Initially, the stimulations caused the woman to feel she was "sinking" into the bed, or falling from a height.

When the current amplitude was increased, she reported leaving her body.

I obtained this snippet from: http://www.crystalinks.com/out_of_body.html

I think i heard about it on the BBC news at the time!

[joe]

7 Fabled planes of existence?
You mean the 7 heavens or levels of reality.
You want some heavy reading about the 7 heavens? Try the Urantia Book. It was a bit much for me but very much full of information as to the structure of some of the dimensional realities.

First question.
Why do you want to leave your body? Are you talking experientially or just plain ol' leaving it altogether?
Are you talking Ascension or Death?

Astral Projection was a popular term in the 70's but I think it has been replaced with lucid dreaming, altered states and exalted consciousness, at least these are the popular terms I hear nowadays.
The subtle experiences of the mind in its dimensional travels and perceptions are always going to be subject to beliefs in reality.
A child in innocense still experiences the angels, devas and the celestials; most parents and adults who have lost the ability to see these things because they were told they were illusions, now tell their children and convince themselves they are or were illusions.
The Subtle is tricky.
 When the mind with the gross perceptions of reality and trained to rely on only its denser sensory perceptions experiences these, they are sloughed off as illusions or imaginary.
The first approach to regaining celestial vision is to open the mind and heart to something greater than the present experience.
This may initially just open the mind to questions.  But if you are diligent in your process and open to the subtle the experiences will come.
Focussing on the throat chakra before sleeping can open the experience to lucid dreaming as well.
The falling experience and the out of body experiences you described in the experiments are similar to the mind dropping into the absolute during meditation, where the conscious awareness experiences its Self.

Experiences come and go and are not the goal however so I am curious what your goal is in bringing up this topic. What is your goal in your taking up meditation?

[Laz]

I guess i have kind of answered this in my other post, under a "Question for Preacher Joe", and also in my profile, but perhaps I need to be more precise:

My goal is to understand what awaits me when I die. I am trying to achieve this through as many avenues as possible, I don't want to focus on any one, for fear of it being the worng one.

I am open to anything that looks like its heading in the right direction, hence my thought processes are seemingly random and uncoordinated.

Astral projection is one of those things from my childhood that has stuck with me, it is such a fantastical idea. My meditation experiences have brought me some results, enough at least to keep looking.

Thinking back i think a driving force has been the weirdness that is a migraine headache, that for me borders on the paranormal with its visual disturbance and altered perception; before the worst pain i have experienced.

I know that a migraine is real and the experience that goes with it suggests to me that there is more to find.

[joe]

QUOTE

My goal is to understand what awaits me when I die. I am trying to achieve this through as many avenues as possible, I don't want to focus on any one, for fear of it being the worng one. ÂÂ

Fear of failure and mistrust are rampant ideas generated by the ego.
There is a saying that to try and cross the river in two boats not only divides the mind but you are bound to get wet.
With any teaching it is best to give one pointed attention to the goal.
There are many teachings out there and each has its pathway of return, but to truly master any one you will have to give it the time and consideration to know it and master it.
Guidance is very important as well. If you find someone who you feel has something that you want and that teacher is real, he/she will guide you by bringing it all back to you and your highest desire.
Stay away from the ones that make the teaching about themselves. Any true teacher never makes the teaching about themselves but about the person who is looking and their choices to stick to it and follow truth rather than self defeating illusions.
Anything is possible once you put your mind to it. If you have the  faith the size of a mustard seed it will carry you through if you can just trust the process and stay with the path.
Everything that comes to you is for your growth in conscious evolution. Be careful what you do with what comes to you. Ego has a habit of discarding what it doesn't like in favor of what it does like, keeping the same old habitual programs intact and stagnating the mind in its self defeating thoughts of fear and mistrust.
Any pathway you choose is a tool, learn how to use it and then when you have achieved what you desire the tool can be put down. If there is a need for more another tool will present itself.
Just remember that one pointed focus, using one tool at a time will achieve the quickest results.

Question:
Do you know what the after-life looks like and will you know it if you see it, or recognise what it is? And if not what will you use to determine as the method of recognition?
Have you ever given consideration to what is behind life and death at the same time, rather than to negate what is in from to of you here and now, for the idea that it gets better after you die?

To the intensely vehement soon!-Patanjali

Your desires will be fulfilled as long as you can focus on the goal and leave out the conflicting thoughts and desire streams.

[synchronox]

What is the reason that someone would spend a good part of the day selling his merchandise on someone else's bandwidth?  Curious.
If someone wanted to really carry a highly held message why would he not get his own site and maximize the message?
Why the spam and use of aliases?
Why the crowding out of other people's opinions?
The actions of this man indicate something other than what he is saying.  What he is saying is a standard issue text book formula of an Indian meditation technique not of his own issue.  
This is a mixture of old time religious fervor with Indian origins.

[joe]

One way to gain insight is to first pose the question.
But will the poser of questions know the reason for the question or be able to recognise the answer?

[Laz]

QUOTE

Fear of failure and mistrust are rampant ideas generated by the ego.

Woah there, your racing way ahead of me.

QUOTE

There is a saying that to try and cross the river in two boats not only divides the mind but you are bound to get wet.

Sayings are like statistics, you can prove anything with them. Have you heard of Divide and Conquer, Don't put all your eggs in one basket, no matter how you slice it it'll look the same, etc. etc. Please lets not let this slip into a a war of idioms!

Skipping the next bit because i don't agree with the one tool idea.

QUOTE

Do you know what the after-life looks like and will you know it if you see it, or recognise what it is? And if not what will you use to determine as the method of recognition?

I do not, can you give me an idea? I feel that this is what astral projection will bring me, if i can achieve it.

QUOTE

Have you ever given consideration to what is behind life and death at the same time, rather than to negate what is in from to of you here and now, for the idea that it gets better after you die?

I am under no illusion that things get better after death, and i am not so tied up in finding out that it is stopping me enjoying life. Infact I am still petrified by the thought of dying, and cannot understand how people can come to terms with it.

Are you comfortable with death Joe?

As for what is behind life and death both, I like this question, but i do not have an answer for you.

You remind me that I was reading Julian barbours' website yesterday and i found a quote that resonated with me as i have always believed it;

QUOTE

My ideas about time all developed from the realization that if nothing were to change we could not say that times passes. Change is primary, time, if it exists at all, is something we deduce from it.

Birth/Life/death, they are primarily processes of change and not of time.

QUOTE

Your desires will be fulfilled as long as you can focus on the goal and leave out the conflicting thoughts and desire streams.

My goal is to find out what death is before i die, that is unwavering.

from your last post

QUOTE

But will the poser of questions know the reason for the question or be able to recognise the answer?

Does it matter? i'm sure it's the journey that counts.

There are some good and interesting topics here, keep 'em coming  :)

[synchronox]

Laz,
The thought comes to mind that astral projection is very similar to lucid dreaming.
In one case the lucid dream body is projected into the here and now, in the other in the habitat of the dreamscape.
If one disregards the location of the happening the similarity between the two is that certain people have the ability to project the spirit of their being unaccompanied by the body.
I can see why you raise the question, because if this practice can be initiated, it would be the beginnings of a life independent of particle body.  Have you tried any experiments in this direction?
The Monroe Institute has been claiming to have an advanced program that accomplishes this for years.  Robert Monroe wrote a number of books about the subject before he died.  i believe they are located in Virginia.
John

[joe]

QUOTE

Woah there, your racing way ahead of me.

No one holds you back but you. Take it as it comes. Say yes to everything and you can be enlightened very quickly.
In other words accept responsibility for your creation and allow all things for they are full of all possibilities.

QUOTE

Sayings are like statistics, you can prove anything with them. Have you heard of Divide and Conquer, Don't put all your eggs in one basket, no matter how you slice it it'll look the same, etc. etc. Please lets not let this slip into a a war of idioms!

Sayings come from the same source as anything else.
In the latter part of your post you said you resonated with something that was said. What allows you to pick and choose what resonates? What level of comprehension can resonance be recognised if the knower in the process of knowing still sees only partially what can be known and still calls what he can see the known?
Ego lives from fear and uses it to control in what it decides is safe and from what can be understood as real. This keeps it secluded from the unknown until something comes along to change the idea into something that is recognised/accepted/known.
Generally it lives from the habits of relying on the 5 senses of outer identification, sight, sound, touch, taste and the feelings associated with the sensory definitions.
The Subtle aspects of awareness that will allow you to live from the reality that you wish to persue will require you to step across the lines that you have drawn in what you hold as beliefs in limitations both in you and the world around you.
IT is much bigger than your imagination can gather into thought.
I wouldn't cast aside anything if I were you without at least giving all that comes to you fair consideration. You will in the process miss much that is being offered if you are too careless.

QUOTE

I do not, can you give me an idea? I feel that this is what astral projection will bring me, if i can achieve it.

Astral projection will give you an experience of something.
 Life is full of experiences and they keep coming if that is what you are looking for. There is even within death an experience but it may or may not be of what and who you are. What you take with you from here about the reality of who you are will perpetuate even in death. It may be free for a while of the more gross physical boundaries but if you still believe in you and desire to live as you, you will continually create more experiences for you to experience.
If you truly desire to know the Self and awaken to that then there is no need to die. Death is a perpetuating wheel of life and death a cycle that is born and maintained as an idea to start and end with a bunch of stuff inbetween.
You go way beyond any limitation surrounded by ideas of beginnings and endings and physical mortality.

QUOTE

Are you comfortable with death Joe?

To answer this seems redundant in light of the last paragraph.
I don't fear death, its only an experience but I do have an aversion to pain. I accept it but I don't like it.
I fell off of a 2 story roof two weeks ago and I still didn't like it. But shit happens, I got on the ladder and went back up as soon as I was able to walk again which was about a week.

QUOTE

Birth/Life/death, they are primarily processes of change and not of time.

Yes, they are initiated by desire. The awareness of time is the creation of sequencing experience. The process of fulfillment of desire is called Karma. The universe exists to fulfill desire. Once one stops throwing conflicting desire streams at the universe the desires are fulfilled instantaneously. This in Sanskrit is called rtam the action of response to thought. When we start becoming aware of the conscious creation of thoughts and the source of them we can follow the thoughts back to the source and experience the Self. This is much more fulfilling than the experience of death or what experinces are like in death.

QUOTE

My goal is to find out what death is before i die, that is unwavering.

Excellent. Although I would give your desire a different description I am very much aware of your desire and it will refine itself in experience and understanding as you continue.

QUOTE

Does it matter? i'm sure it's the journey that counts.

The journey will have to eventually give way to the goal unless you are bound and determined to continue to row the boat.
If you don't know what it is that you are looking for the never ending process of the journey will give way to boredom and skepticism of ever experiencing anything that doesn't change. There are as many highs as you wish to create. In fact an infinite number. They well never equal the bliss of being the One that does not change or fade away.
Here is where the idea of not putting your eggs in one basket will draw you to incompletion and the eventual desire to find the one thing, and that desire will draw you in a straight line without all the side roads and scenic routes. When you want it bad enough, when you want anything bad enough nothing gets in the way and there is no dilly dallying around to get to the goal.

Never in pride rely soley on your own strength. Help will always come if you but allow it. You want directions on how to get there or are you going to just do it on your own and eventually find it?
There is a saying that men are so stubborn when it comes to asking directions.
The male dominant half of the brain is too anal-ytical and logical on its own, and without the balance of the feminine half of the creative intuitive side of the brain, tends to ignore and miss the subtle realities that are tied to the heart.
The mind says I know its here somewhere and the heart is screaming and waving, jumping up and down trying to get your attention and draw you in to what is real. You are going to have to get in touch with a part of yourself that you are yet unfamiliar with to see more than you do now.
This will be part of the journey but it can be quick or slow. Your choice, take as long as you want or Do it NOW!
Most take the Long way around the barn, as John Wayne used to say.

[Agnostic4Now]

 For anyone that knows of astral projection I have a simple question: are your normal senses intact? In other words, when you project your self to the astral plane, are you able to see the normal world, as in when you are in the normal plane?

 I ask simply because one person once said they attained the ability of astral projection, and he was able to see the real world outside of his body. There is a simple experiment to prove this person wrong. Write a word on a piece of paper (without the 'projector' knowing), leave it out in plain view in the room, and tell the person to astrally project into the room and tell you what the word is.

 However, the 'projector' supplied that he couldn't, because if he proved that he could do it, 'the shock of proving the sceptic wrong would be to great to bear.'
Yeah... right.

[xiaoshatongxue]

I like micro projecto
· · this is I prefer machine · · it can play through micro projector
phone short film

The power to buy a mobile phone themicro projector
is good

[LBF80]

 For anyone that knows of astral projection I have a simple question: are your normal senses intact? In other words, when you project your self to the astral plane, are you able to see the normal world, as in when you are in the normal plane?

 I ask simply because one person once said they attained the ability of astral projection, and he was able to see the real world outside of his body. There is a simple experiment to prove this person wrong. Write a word on a piece of paper (without the 'projector' knowing), leave it out in plain view in the room, and tell the person to astrally project into the room and tell you what the word is.

 However, the 'projector' supplied that he couldn't, because if he proved that he could do it, 'the shock of proving the sceptic wrong would be to great to bear.'
Yeah... right.

From what i read on the subject, everyone that accomplishes astral travel has their own perticular experience. I do belive in this phenomenon because before I even heard of it, at the age of 10, before I even had internet and no access to this info, i was having these experiences. When i told others, my parents would say "you should say your prayers before you sleep" and my friends would just call me a lier.

When it comes to human senses, in my case at least, they are different each time it happens. Sometimes as lucid as when I am awake, sometimes not, but it is very hard to pay attention to your senses when you are possessed by extream fear.

Remember, you are entering an abnormal state, unkown to your consciousness, at least to your memorible one. No matter how many times I tell myself "next time I will explore this new universe" , but when it does happen, curiosity is taken over by the fear.

Most of the time i dont actually float around... I usually engage on that "Trapped Mode" which i am fully awake but stuck without body moviment. I hear windy noises and levitate a little. It wasnt until i came to my teens that i actually float around, sometimes with a spiritual body, and one time without it, just my vision, no body (really weird). It was hard to control moviments, this time for some reason I wasnt feeling fear at all, i would float around my room, could not tell left from right and couldnt keep up-side-up.

It is less frequent now, maybe due to a more material way I live now days, or could be cigarretts and liquor consuption that I do more often if you look at it in a spiritual approach, or both.

I can say 100% sure that this phenomenon is real. Cant tell for sure if it is indeed an out of body experience. I do not expell the idea that it is a provoked ilusion by the brain. I would love to prove otherwise and turn it to an empirical science, but i havent yet mastered enough to exclude my fears and gain full control of it.