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> Ephedrine as a good alternative to adderall?, help
opfor101
post Jan 23, 2008, 09:53 PM
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hey guys,

i have several boxes of ephedrine HCL at home (biotek and vasopro)
are the effects on focus as profound as adderall?

i heard somewhere that at a certain dosage, ephedrine does act like speed (adderall)


anyone can vouch for this?

im trying to use ephedrine as an alternative study aid. especially since ephedrine is not addictive at all.
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Orbz
post Jan 23, 2008, 11:22 PM
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QUOTE(opfor101 @ Jan 24, 2008, 02:53 PM) *

hey guys,

i have several boxes of ephedrine HCL at home (biotek and vasopro)
are the effects on focus as profound as adderall?
It has more systemic/peripheral effects than amphetamine and less CNS effects. Hence its use as an effective decongestant, and use for hypotension.
QUOTE

i heard somewhere that at a certain dosage, ephedrine does act like speed (adderall)

Ephedrine is very similar in structure to amphetamine, methamphetamine and other catecholamines. Its actions on the body are very similar to them.

QUOTE

im trying to use ephedrine as an alternative study aid. especially since ephedrine is not addictive at all.

Where did you hear that from? They're lying, especially if you're using it for its psychoactive properties then its going to be addictive.
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LifeMirage
post Jan 24, 2008, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE(Orbz @ Jan 24, 2008, 01:22 AM) *
QUOTE(opfor101 @ Jan 24, 2008, 02:53 PM) *

hey guys,

i have several boxes of ephedrine HCL at home (biotek and vasopro)
are the effects on focus as profound as adderall?
It has more systemic/peripheral effects than amphetamine and less CNS effects. Hence its use as an effective decongestant, and use for hypotension.
QUOTE

i heard somewhere that at a certain dosage, ephedrine does act like speed (adderall)

Ephedrine is very similar in structure to amphetamine, methamphetamine and other catecholamines. Its actions on the body are very similar to them.

QUOTE

im trying to use ephedrine as an alternative study aid. especially since ephedrine is not addictive at all.

Where did you hear that from? They're lying, especially if you're using it for its psychoactive properties then its going to be addictive.


Intent to use a compound for supposely psychoactive effects does not make it an addictive compound. I'm not aware of any research showing Ephedrine to be an addictive compound.
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Rick
post Jan 24, 2008, 10:58 AM
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What about pseudoephedrine? I suppose it's chemically related and has similar activity and safety?
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LifeMirage
post Jan 24, 2008, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jan 24, 2008, 12:58 PM) *
What about pseudoephedrine? I suppose it's chemically related and has similar activity and safety?


Chemically related but the effects are quite different. Generally safer.
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Orbz
post Jan 24, 2008, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(LifeMirage @ Jan 24, 2008, 05:16 PM) *

Intent to use a compound for supposely psychoactive effects does not make it an addictive compound. I'm not aware of any research showing Ephedrine to be an addictive compound.

That's because there's not much research (although there is some); why would you use ephedrine and research ephedrine when you can use amphetamines? A far more interesting/entertaining/potent compound. But we can certainly infer from its subjective effects and its mechanism of action. It releases dopamine, like all good addictive compounds. It produces stimulation, euphoria, it is reinforcing and it exacerbates psychosis. All typical of the psychomotor stimulant class of drug, which are addictive compounds and even have theory of addiction named after them (see Wise 1987, A psychomotor stimulant theory of addiction). We can argue over how addictive it is, (is it more addictive than sex? probably if you injected it. Cocaine? not likely) but it is addictive.

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2001 Dec 1;65(1):45-53
Reinforcing and discriminative-stimulus effects of ephedrine isomers in rhesus monkeys.
Anderson KG, Winger G, Woods J, Woolverton WL.

Am J Psychiatry 162:2198, November 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra: Addiction
SHANNON C. MILLER, M.D., F.A.S.A.M.

Am J Psychiatry 162:189-191, January 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra Use: An Analysis of Food and Drug Administration Reports of Adverse Events
Margaret Maglione et al.

Int Arch Allergy Appl Immunol. 1961;18:140-4.Links
Abuse of ephedrine (ephedrine addiction) in patients with bronchial asthma.
GUTMANN MJ.

Nord Med. 1968 Nov 14;80(46):1545-9.Links
[Psychoses in chronic ephedrine addiction]
Eggert Hansen C.
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opfor101
post Jan 24, 2008, 08:45 PM
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QUOTE(Orbz @ Jan 24, 2008, 09:52 PM) *

QUOTE(LifeMirage @ Jan 24, 2008, 05:16 PM) *

Intent to use a compound for supposely psychoactive effects does not make it an addictive compound. I'm not aware of any research showing Ephedrine to be an addictive compound.

That's because there's not much research (although there is some); why would you use ephedrine and research ephedrine when you can use amphetamines? A far more interesting/entertaining/potent compound. But we can certainly infer from its subjective effects and its mechanism of action. It releases dopamine, like all good addictive compounds. It produces stimulation, euphoria, it is reinforcing and it exacerbates psychosis. All typical of the psychomotor stimulant class of drug, which are addictive compounds and even have theory of addiction named after them (see Wise 1987, A psychomotor stimulant theory of addiction). We can argue over how addictive it is, (is it more addictive than sex? probably if you injected it. Cocaine? not likely) but it is addictive.

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2001 Dec 1;65(1):45-53
Reinforcing and discriminative-stimulus effects of ephedrine isomers in rhesus monkeys.
Anderson KG, Winger G, Woods J, Woolverton WL.

Am J Psychiatry 162:2198, November 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra: Addiction
SHANNON C. MILLER, M.D., F.A.S.A.M.

Am J Psychiatry 162:189-191, January 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra Use: An Analysis of Food and Drug Administration Reports of Adverse Events
Margaret Maglione et al.

Int Arch Allergy Appl Immunol. 1961;18:140-4.Links
Abuse of ephedrine (ephedrine addiction) in patients with bronchial asthma.
GUTMANN MJ.

Nord Med. 1968 Nov 14;80(46):1545-9.Links
[Psychoses in chronic ephedrine addiction]
Eggert Hansen C.


as a person who frequently network with bodybuilders, i have come across MANY MANY people who have used ephedrine HCL, for a month or two straight as a part of reducing bodyfat (dosages were around 37.5 to 50 mg per day) and i have yet to see one complain of a withdrawal symptom or have any visible sign of any addiction (they live perfectly without ephedrine)

i believe the addiction may come from the constant need to feel awake and refreshed (same as caffeine addiction) and that more and more is needed to achieve the same effects.


however to your question, amphetamines are far harder to obtain than ephedrine (which is monitored but not illegal in many states of the U.S).

im sure that if amphetamines were not controlled substances, they would sell VERY FAST. We saw a similar case happen with ephedrine where it was bought by many people to stay awake (far better than caffeine, which requires a LARGE dosage and still does a poor job at keeping one awake if fatigued)

only thing is, is that for every drug, there is an abuser and this is why many of the good stuff are banned.
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LifeMirage
post Jan 24, 2008, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(Orbz @ Jan 24, 2008, 08:52 PM) *
QUOTE(LifeMirage @ Jan 24, 2008, 05:16 PM) *

Intent to use a compound for supposely psychoactive effects does not make it an addictive compound. I'm not aware of any research showing Ephedrine to be an addictive compound.

That's because there's not much research (although there is some); why would you use ephedrine and research ephedrine when you can use amphetamines? A far more interesting/entertaining/potent compound. But we can certainly infer from its subjective effects and its mechanism of action. It releases dopamine, like all good addictive compounds. It produces stimulation, euphoria, it is reinforcing and it exacerbates psychosis. All typical of the psychomotor stimulant class of drug, which are addictive compounds and even have theory of addiction named after them (see Wise 1987, A psychomotor stimulant theory of addiction). We can argue over how addictive it is, (is it more addictive than sex? probably if you injected it. Cocaine? not likely) but it is addictive.

Drug Alcohol Depend. 2001 Dec 1;65(1):45-53
Reinforcing and discriminative-stimulus effects of ephedrine isomers in rhesus monkeys.
Anderson KG, Winger G, Woods J, Woolverton WL.

Am J Psychiatry 162:2198, November 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra: Addiction
SHANNON C. MILLER, M.D., F.A.S.A.M.

Am J Psychiatry 162:189-191, January 2005
Psychiatric Effects of Ephedra Use: An Analysis of Food and Drug Administration Reports of Adverse Events
Margaret Maglione et al.

Int Arch Allergy Appl Immunol. 1961;18:140-4.Links
Abuse of ephedrine (ephedrine addiction) in patients with bronchial asthma.
GUTMANN MJ.

Nord Med. 1968 Nov 14;80(46):1545-9.Links
[Psychoses in chronic ephedrine addiction]
Eggert Hansen C.


Amphetamine should never be used by a healthy person. Ephedrine like any compound can be abused however when used as directed it can be safety used.
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