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> What is Love?, from an enlightened perspective
lucid_dream
post Dec 16, 2007, 09:59 AM
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seriously. There are many definitions, but from an enlightened perspective, what is the significance, the meaning, of Love? I'd be interested in your opinions.
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Joesus
post Dec 16, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Relative love is giving value to something that is separate in reality from you and some kind of exchange in value and attachment in feeling.

From an enlightened perspective where everything is part of you then love would be the fullness/ultimate goodness or bliss within that you are spilling outward into creation. Everything that is good inside of you would be given equally to everything.
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Rick
post Dec 18, 2007, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Dec 16, 2007, 10:17 AM) *

Relative love is giving value to something that is separate in reality from you and some kind of exchange in value and attachment in feeling.

From an enlightened perspective where everything is part of you then love would be the fullness/ultimate goodness or bliss within that you are spilling outward into creation. Everything that is good inside of you would be given equally to everything.

I like that description.
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atha
post Dec 18, 2007, 07:39 PM
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To love means
to run into the depth of the yard
and till the rook-black night
chop the wood with a shining axe,
giving full play to one`s strength...
To love is
to break away from bedsheets,
torn by insomnia,
jealous of Copernicus,
because he,
rather than Maria`s husband,
is a true rival...
Love is not a paradise of arbors,
Love tells us
that the stalled motor of the heart
is running full-strength again.
Love will always hum,
human and simple,
Hurricane,
fire,
water
surge forward, rumbling,
Who can control this ?
You ?
Try it...

Vladimir Mayakovsky
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atha
post Dec 18, 2007, 07:47 PM
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My soul open wide,
my heart nearly on the surface,
I unfold myself to the sun and puddles--
Enter me with your passions,
Climb in with your loves !
I know where is heart in others,
in the breast, as everyone knows,
but with me
anatomy has gone mad:
nothing but heart
roars everywhere !

Vladimir Mayakovsky
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maximus242
post Dec 18, 2007, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 16, 2007, 10:59 AM) *

seriously. There are many definitions, but from an enlightened perspective, what is the significance, the meaning, of Love? I'd be interested in your opinions.


Hmm, from an enlightened perspective love is a sense of connection and caring for all things in existence. It is a sense that everything is connected and a deep sense of affection for all things in nature. You go beyond loving only a few things and move forward to loving all things in their own special way.
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Joesus
post Dec 18, 2007, 08:01 PM
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or un-special way.

My Teacher used to quote an enlightened master as saying, "I love all of you, and none of you at all."
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atha
post Dec 18, 2007, 08:30 PM
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"Until love has quickened a soul, it is like an unfledged bird" Rumi

Enough of phrases and conceit and metaphors...
I want burning, burning !
Rumi
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atha
post Dec 18, 2007, 09:25 PM
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DARVISH

A sovereign spirit who fulfills divine will
A King in beggar`s clothes
whose heart in Heaven, though on Earth His feet
New Sun arises wherever He casts His glance
How so much perfection can one hold ?
How so much divine LOVE ?

THE JOY d`AMOR

My fate is sealed
My choice is made
And I will follow the laws of love
Once I have drunk the potion of love
And entered the endura path...
Oh, Lady of my Thoughts !
Oh, my Senhal !
My boat is cast adrift
in mystic sea of Love
By You alone shall I be saved
And brought into Eternal Life and Light !
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code buttons
post Dec 19, 2007, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 18, 2007, 07:56 PM) *

QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 16, 2007, 10:59 AM) *

seriously. There are many definitions, but from an enlightened perspective, what is the significance, the meaning, of Love? I'd be interested in your opinions.


Hmm, from an enlightened perspective love is a sense of connection and caring for all things in existence. It is a sense that everything is connected and a deep sense of affection for all things in nature. You go beyond loving only a few things and move forward to loving all things in their own special way.

Well said. It is my love for life in all her forms that propells me to dream for a more perfect one.
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boots
post Jul 08, 2008, 07:04 PM
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“For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.” ------Yoda

(Thanks again Joesus, for opening me up to Yoda's wisdom!)
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Joesus
post Jul 08, 2008, 08:51 PM
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May the "Force" be with you..
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Lindsay
post Jul 08, 2008, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 16, 2007, 09:59 AM) *

seriously. There are many definitions, but from an enlightened perspective, what is the significance, the meaning, of Love? I'd be interested in your opinions.
It is not by accident that in his New-testament letter John writes: "God is love (agape is the special Greek word). It is based on the will, not on the senses, or the intellect.
Agape (spiritual) love can include all kind of moral forms of erotic (sensual) love, and philial (brotherly) love, but it is not dependent on them. One can love (agape)--be fair, kind and just to--ones neighbours, near and far, even when they are not sensually or intellectually attractive.
For some details on this check out what I wrote at:
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showt...8&hl=agape+love
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Joesus
post Jul 09, 2008, 07:54 PM
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A person once wrote: "Agape" is the support of God that allows all things to be, and theosophy the pursuit of the experience of God.
Brotherly Love in terms of the human then is a dream of the senses, filled with myths of purpose and righteousness, a religion of human reality, brotherly love is the attachments to ideals and ideas, beliefs and illusions.
Gods love, then is not attached for it supports brotherly love in the form of jealosy, where one protects their right to love someone at the expense of alienating others who might threaten that love.
God supports this in its creation for it exists in Gods creation.
God supports war and suffering and so Gods love (Agape) is the support of growth in experience where darkness does not exist without its opposite, light.
Agape is not a feeling tho one can have feelings in Gods world.
Agape is not morality, tho morals often emerge in God's world.
God is not against anything, and also not for anything.. Agape then is not a definition, tho definitions of the word are part of God's creation. Agape is one of the many words within the scriptures that points toward the reality of Spirit tho it does not by itself sharpen the intellect nor refine the pathway toward God.
Agape is a word and so is love. Humanity often paints its own colors on the seemingly blank canvass of God, and it is only because God is present in and as activity, that the activity of God is narrowed into words, and into the paintings of human imaginations.

There's a book called "A Treasury of Kahlil Gibran" and in it an interesting chapter about Satan.
There is a story in the chapter about a priest, Father Samaan, who's only purpose is to spread the warnings of Satan so that humanity will be safe from his influence and bask in the shade of God, (by avoiding Satan..)
Anyway Father Samaan is travelling to a distant land to minister to the suffering people and along the way he comes upon a man who has suffered the beatings of someone, (Actually the sword of Michael) leaving him laying in a bloody mess moaning in pain. At first Father Samaan decides that the person must be a robber who was foiled by his attempt to steal from some rich travellers and feels the urge to continue without offering service, but then something is pulling at him to take another look. The man pleads to him for help and Father Samaan is torn between the humanitarian impulse to give aid but at the same time can't quite place the intuitive impulse to leave him where he lay, bleeding and on the verge of death.
Well to make a long story short the guy ends up being Satan and tells the Clergyman who he is, and with his first impulses to leave him is changed by Satan as he begins to tell him why he won't leave him.
He tells Father Samaan that without him in the world he will have no job. Without Satan there will be nothing to fear and as such no reason to warn humanity of the evils of Satan, and no impulse to forge a pathway of righteousness. Without Satan there would be no reason for struggling and as a result humanity would become slothful and wither. No Yin without Yang kinda thing, and eventually to save his job and his life as a priest or pursuant of God, he lifts Satan over his shoulder to take him home and tend to his wounds.

Fascinatingly enough the story really is about human ego, and the stubbornness of humanity to maintain images of reality that are the imaginings of delusion.
Agape is Love of spirit and has nothing to do with identifying with the imaginings of humanity. For God never leaves the status of Absolute spirit to be anything other than God. Only humans imagine God in forms created from human identities.
Father Samaan is represented as a slave to human ego, and identification with the clothes or paintings cast onto the spirit of mans formlessness. Ego fights for its identity and will give up a world without ego only because ego does not imagine itself without itself and all of the attachments to idenity and to purpose of identity. As such human love is bound to self preservation. Where Gods love is in extending itself beyond the limitations of identities of any kind and into infinity.

Being that the subject is about love and what it means to an enlightened perspective, An enlightened man would have either left Satan to die or finished him off where Michael had been fooled by Satan to believe he was already dead. The Path of the enlightened is to squash the limitations of egoic pride and attachment.
But Father Samaan sought to protect his pride and with his attachment engaged egoic love to save himself by saving that part of humanity which perpetuated life as he knew it and believed it should be.

THe Bible speaks often of Brotherly love or the love of spirit that is one in all. It underlies the clothing of ego and the scripture was very adamant about ego or Satan. Jesus held no love or favor for the ego.
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Lindsay
post Jul 09, 2008, 09:27 PM
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J, you say that God is not for, or against, anything.

I agree. This is why I use the acronym, GOD--Or, as I do in my signature, where I use the null--rather than the noun, God. For the same reason, Orthodox Jews write 'G-d'.

THE THEORY OF THEISM
It would be nice, and things would be so much simpler, if we had a singular god with whom we could really interact, person to person, like we do here in this topic. If there were such a god I would bug Him many times every day. I am not opposed to the theory, the concept, the theory of theism, if it is for real. But it would be disingenuous of me to say that I have any confidence that it truly is for real. I feel the same way about the theory of atheism.

THE THEORY OF UNITHEISM
Currently, I operate on the theory that the god-concept represented by the acronym, GOD, is not a person-like being; not a human-like, being--one who does this that or the other thing to and/or for us. GOD is too ineffable, too complex, too mysterious and unimaginable a concept, to be contained within any kind of dimensionality.

For me, GOD simply IS: all the goodness, order and design we desire. In other words, "GOD is (agape) love (John)--the highest good imaginable. Our role is to be vehicles of this
heart-felt unconditional love. It is up to us--using the power of love within the human heart--to work together to bring about all that is good, orderly and desirable. GOD, as love, works in and though us as pneumatological, or spiritual, beings. GOD does not do the work for us.

GOOGLE ON PNEUMATOLOGY
The more of us who get this message--and act on it--the sooner we, on earth, will get rid of things like injustice, poverty, crime, disease, wars, terrorism--you name it--which are usually the end result of pneumatologically-based ignorance and fear aided and abetted by their deadly partners: pride, arrogance, anger, hatred, malice, lust, jealousy, and greed--all deadly sins.

UNITHEISM IS NON-DOGMATIC
Being non-dogmatic, or non doctrinaire, means that unitheism--in partnership with all moral, ethical and spiritual educators, including all the sciences and all the arts, and those who search for authentic truth and beauty--is always open to new, fresh and non-dogmatic ideas.
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Joesus
post Jul 10, 2008, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE
UNITHEISM IS NON-DOGMATIC

If it's theory
QUOTE
THE THEORY OF THEISM
then any ideas relating to what it is, is simply relative association to dogmatic process that is egoic belief, or belief of a personal and democratic nature.
Repetitive association often makes itself into a sort of definiition that people cling to regardless of whether theory or belief changes.
In my experience any type of theism, especially when it is taught, advertised and converted into a church or religion, especially when it is based on theory is what leads to dogma and the definition of a cult.

And there's nothing that one can do to stop human opinions from climbing out of the gutter and trying to pull everything into it. Or from climbing down from the mountain tops to try and pull it up into the clouds.
That is just the need of the ego.
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boots
post Jul 11, 2008, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE
Gods love, then is not attached for it supports brotherly love in the form of jealosy, where one protects their right to love someone at the expense of alienating others who might threaten that love.
God supports this in its creation for it exists in Gods creation.
God supports war and suffering and so Gods love (Agape) is the support of growth in experience where darkness does not exist without its opposite, light.

Does love have an opposite? I have heard "hate," "fear," and "isolation" used to try to describe love's opposite. But from an enlightened perspective, it seems that there really is no opposite of love. There is only the realization of love, or the failure to realize love. Love is not yin or yang. Love is the full circle around the yin and the yang. It is all encompassing.
Jealousy, hate, fear, isolation....these are all a failure to realize the interconnectedness of everything, the failure to realize love.

QUOTE
Ego fights for its identity and will give up a world without ego only because ego does not imagine itself without itself and all of the attachments to idenity and to purpose of identity. As such human love is bound to self preservation. Where Gods love is in extending itself beyond the limitations of identities of any kind and into infinity.

So can a human truly feel Love, in its most divine form? We obviously feel conditional love, but conditional love is not love in its highest form. If we have a concept of Love, then does it follow that it can be attained and realized? If so, then enlightenment can be attained. If not, then chaos ensues and rules over humanity.

QUOTE
Without Satan there will be nothing to fear and as such no reason to warn humanity of the evils of Satan, and no impulse to forge a pathway of righteousness. Without Satan there would be no reason for struggling and as a result humanity would become slothful and wither. No Yin without Yang kinda thing, and eventually to save his job and his life as a priest or pursuant of God, he lifts Satan over his shoulder to take him home and tend to his wounds.

QUOTE
Being that the subject is about love and what it means to an enlightened perspective, An enlightened man would have either left Satan to die or finished him off where Michael had been fooled by Satan to believe he was already dead. The Path of the enlightened is to squash the limitations of egoic pride and attachment.

I think that the enlightened man would save Satan, especially if he knew that it was Satan and what Satan was meant to represent. An enlightened man understands that yin cannot exist without yang. Satan represents all thoughts and actions which fail to realize love. Enlightenment could not be attained unless there exists those who are not enlightened.
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Joesus
post Jul 11, 2008, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE

So can a human truly feel Love, in its most divine form?

Feel and experience it yet the experience or feeling would not encapsulate it. In fact the feeling or experience would only be a relative reflection of it but then how deep could one reflect on Love and in how many dimensions?
I say we only limit ourselves by our own intentions and beliefs.
QUOTE

I think that the enlightened man would save Satan, especially if he knew that it was Satan and what Satan was meant to represent.

To the enlightened Satan/Ego is an illusion.
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Lindsay
post Jul 11, 2008, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE(boots @ Jul 11, 2008, 07:19 PM) *

... Does love have an opposite? I have heard "hate," "fear," and "isolation" used to try to describe love's opposite. ...
In my opinion, the opposite of love is apathy (not caring), aided an abetted by ignorance and cynicism.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 07:33 AM
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'Universal Love (Metta-sutta)

He who is skilled in good and who wishes to attain that state of Calm should act (thus):

He should be able, upright, perfectly upright, compliant, gentle, and humble.

Contented, easily supported with few duties, of simple livelihood, controlled in senses, discreet, not impudent, he should not be greedily attached to families.

He should not commit any slight wrong such that other wise men might censure him. (Then he should cultivate his thoughs thus:)

May all beings be happy and secure; may their minds be contented.

Whatever living beings there may be--feeble or strong, long (or tall), stout, or medium, short, small, or large, seen or unseen, those dwelling far or near, those who are born and those who are yet to be born--may all beings, without exception, be happy-minded!

Let not one deceive another nor despise any person whatever in any place. In anger or illwill let not one wish to harm to another.

Just as a mother would protect her only child even at the risk of her own life, even so let one cultivate a boundless heart towards all beings.

Let one's thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world--above, below and across--without any obstruction, without any hatred, without any enmity.

Whether one stands, walks, sits or lies down, as long as one is awake, one should maintain this mindfulness. This, they say, is the Sublime State in this life.

Not falling into wrong views, virtuous and endowed with Insight, one gives up attachment to sense-desires. Verily such a man does not return to enter a womb again.'


~The Buddha, Suttanipata, I. 8
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 10:49 AM
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That's very nice. One typo: "coundless" should be "boundless." It's true that "such a man" does not return, but it's also true that no one returns. Life is a one-shot deal. Make the most of it.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 10:54 AM
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oops. I'll go back and edit it.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE
Life is a one-shot deal. Make the most of it.


But make the most of it according to the doctrine of love. There is no other way to make the most of it.
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE(boots @ Jul 23, 2008, 11:59 AM) *
But make the most of it according to the doctrine of love. There is no other way to make the most of it.

There is a place in the world for the military hero who dies fighting to save his buddies or for the astronaut who takes great risks for space exploration. Love has many forms.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Jul 23, 2008, 03:41 PM) *

QUOTE(boots @ Jul 23, 2008, 11:59 AM) *
But make the most of it according to the doctrine of love. There is no other way to make the most of it.

There is a place in the world for the military hero who dies fighting to save his buddies or for the astronaut who takes great risks for space exploration. Love has many forms.


Edit:
But make the most of it according to the doctrines (plural) of love. wink.gif
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Rick
post Jul 23, 2008, 03:55 PM
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Right. We each do what we can in our own way.
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boots
post Jul 23, 2008, 04:13 PM
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Problems begin to arise when Love is misinterpreted.

For example, sending Christian missionaries to third world countries to convert the people, as if the people were wrong in practicing their own religion. The missionaries believe that they are doing the local people good. However if Love is humble, gentle, calm, discreet, and not impudent, then the missionaries were not sharing Love. Yet they thought they were.

For every good, there is an evil. The astronaut may be risking his life for the future of space exploration, but the money used to send him to space could have been used to feed the hungry. The soldier who dies for his buddies may have done so out of brotherly love, but in a war over material resources where people kill each other.

Perhaps Love is best represented by non-action.
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Lindsay
post Jul 23, 2008, 09:32 PM
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Boots, when you write: "Perhaps Love is best represented by non-action." If you mean, letting people be themselves, I agree.

But what does one do when people want to be mean and miserable to themselves and others?

Nothing?


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Joesus
post Jul 23, 2008, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE

But what does one do when people want to be mean and miserable to themselves and others?


Love them...
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boots
post Jul 24, 2008, 06:20 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 24, 2008, 02:38 AM) *

QUOTE

But what does one do when people want to be mean and miserable to themselves and others?


Love them...


Love them. Misery and negativity can't be reciprocated without contributing to the problem. If Love is best represented by non-action, then let them be.

Whisper words of wisdom, but let them be. smile.gif
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