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> Neurofeedback, for controlling brain-wave patterns
lucid_dream
post Nov 11, 2007, 07:36 AM
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Neurofeedback is a mental exercise designed to optimize brain function by altering dysfunctional brain-wave patterns.

The patient sits in deep concentration with electrodes attached to her scalp and ears and wired to a computer. By focusing her mind, she controls the wavy lines produced by her brain's electrical activity on a monitor. Although it resembles a 1950s science fiction film, this scene unfolds with increasing frequency in clinics throughout Chicago and around the country.

"The objective is to normalize brain waves," said Dr. Kyle R. Bonesteel, assistant professor of neurology at Loyola University Medical Center and director of Neurohealth Associates. It was Bonesteel who suggested treatment to Ferguson.

Neurofeedback is based on a kind of brain mapping called quantitative electroencephalography, or QEEG. It involves measuring brain-wave frequency that correlates to mental states. Cognitive disorders, such as attention-deficit disorder (ADD) or anxiety, show up as aberrant brain waves.

"By consciously reshaping the aberrant brain-wave pattern, the patient retrains her brain, thereby reducing symptoms while enhancing concentration," Bonesteel said. "Conscious control becomes unconscious control as a result of positively reinforced repetition. The brain learns to regulate itself."

Depending on the condition and its severity, neurofeedback treatment might take 20 to 40 or more one-hour sessions. But positive results seem to stick.

Dr. Elsa Baehr, director of NeurQuest Ltd. in Skokie, has treated people with neurofeedback therapy for 15 years. "We have data on patients 5 years, 10 years, 13 years after treatment," she said. "The condition is holding. They're not depressed. It's been a very effective treatment."

Dr. J. Peter Rosenfeld, professor of psychology at Northwestern University's Institute for Neuroscience, worked with Baehr to develop the original protocol for treating depression with neurofeedback. Despite what he calls "pretty impressive" clinical results, he insists that more control-group research is required.

Rosenfeld believes that the strongest scientific case for neurofeedback therapy has been made with ADD and attention-deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), but he cautions that some "neurofeedback people make claims that are silly and unfounded. It's absurd to think that training EEG frequencies will cure any given psychopathology."

Bonesteel agreed that it's not a panacea but noted that neurofeedback, used as part of a multifaceted treatment plan, improves a variety of specific cognitive impairments besides depression, ADD and ADHD. In his clinic, he helps people with insomnia, traumatic brain injury, post-traumatic stress, chronic fatigue, mild autism and epilepsy—often without medication. Research indicates that neurofeedback produces some of the same brain-wave changes as drugs used to treat ADD and ADHD.

"You can chemically condition the brain with pills or do it with neurofeedback," Bonesteel said. "But neurofeedback trains more specifically than pills, without the side effects. It also changes the brain for the better in an ongoing way."

Julie Hancher's 8-year-old son, Nathan, who experienced many problems at school, was diagnosed with ADHD. "He was having trouble focusing and being attentive to the teacher," said Hancher, who lives in the northwest suburbs. "He was getting angry and having trouble completing his assignments."

Taking large doses of Concerta, a timed-release variation of the same ingredient in Ritalin, "was making him too lethargic and sleepy," so she and her husband were desperate for an alternative. After extensive research, they took Nathan to Bonesteel's clinic. Neurofeedback for children often employs a video-game interface, such that controlling brain waves takes the form of slowing or speeding up a rocket ship or race car.

"I just play the game, it's fun," Nathan said. He goes once a week for an hour. "We saw gradual improvement," Hancher said. "He's more attentive, with improved coping skills and less anxiety. He takes less medication, and he's totally focused in therapy. He's even made the honor roll."

Each neurofeedback sessions costs around $100, so the total cost of treatment depends on the number of sessions. But some progress can be expected in 12 to 15 treatments. If there's no improvement by then, the therapy is discontinued.

Health insurance typically covers neurofeedback done in conjunction with talk therapy and behavior modification.
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jennydrea
post Aug 05, 2009, 09:36 PM
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Yeah you're right. I am also here to share some good thoughts for you guys. I know this really can help. This is about choices for healing - body, mind, spirit.
Create Your Health (CYH) is designed to inspire and give you choices regarding improving your life physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Each episode will introduce you to a particular therapeutic tradition and demonstrate what a treatment within that practice is like. Check out their website createyourhealth. com and discover several alternative health practices and take charge of your life to be able to live pain free again - no drugs and no surgeries.
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compcoll4000
post Oct 12, 2009, 05:16 AM
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[honor roll

Neurofeedback is very dangerous. It made me worse. It triggered extreme impulse control and addictive problems. I get this numbing feeling throughout my entire head and brain where I can't even think. If you have an problems with headaches or brain symptoms do not do this therapy. I believe it is very dangerous. And the Lens protocol of neurofeedback can trigger things even worse then normal neurofeedback. I implore people to not use this therapy, you will regret it like I did. I am now worse then I have ever been from doing neurofeedback training. It is not an exact science. It is you being an experiment to the clinician. And the initial testing is not accurate.
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magellan
post Jan 08, 2010, 10:18 PM
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neuroprogrammer 2 is fairly cheap
you can make your own programs
alter them or use the included sessions
I like it a lot
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johnnmillerr
post Jan 08, 2011, 08:07 PM
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I disagree with several things you say about neurofeedback compcoll4000.

But first I want to ask if it is not too private... What did you do neurofeedback for?

Quote: "If you have problems with brain symtoms do not do this therapy." I assume that the way you would know that you have problems with brain symtoms is through medication, and neurofeedback is nothing like medication. The two have nothing in common as far as "brain symtoms" goes. Also, neurofeedback does not have symptoms like medication. Each area of the brain which is targeted does specific actions and when we change them it does specific things to our psychology. It is up to the therapist to inform what each one does.

Quote: "If you have any problems with headaches do not take this therapy." Neurofeedback is successful for migrains. If you have heachaches neurofeedback will help. Slight headaches are simply the consequence of the therapist trianing your brain too hard. It is up to you to report honestly whether or not you feel that they should slow down.

Quote: "It triggered exteme impulse control and addictive problems." You and your therapist should have talked about whether increased impulsiveness would have made you more likely to fall into addiction. Did you? Though I'm sorry for your addiction, to contribute your habit entirely to neurofeedback is ludicrous. If you really did become more impulsive, I promice that the change would be relitively slight and that the most it would do is slightly increase the risk of entering back into addiction. Also, you couldn't done very many sessions where increased impulse became apparent enough to stop. Did you?

Once again, assuming that you did become more impulsive, to try to blame your addiction on neurofeedback is completely ludicrous. You had slipped into addiction before, but there had not been neurofeedback to prolong it? Yes? Therefore the odds of it happening again, assuming you're at the point in life I think you're in, are relitively good.

Did you express your concerns to your therapist? What did she/he say? Did you quit therapy? Becuase that would have been extraordinarily unwise. If you did quit, did you quit therapy too soon? Being 19, I have gone to therapy for over two years now. Towards the beginning of my therapy my symtpoms only got worse, yet all the while, my suffering and struggle for my life was being relieved. It wasn't until after the first year that there was a noticable improvement on how I handled my anxiety even though I was still becoming more anxious! Note that how one handles their anxiety is seperate from how much of it they have. For me however, thanks to neurofeeback I'm not nearly as anxious as I was. It also took over 20 sessions just to find a place in my brain to start hammering hard with neurofeedback. And it was not just about the place, it was also about what frequency to target. Neurofeedback is a complicated thing.

To be frank I am seriously wondering whether your increased impulsiveness is simply a figmant of your imagination unrelated to neurofeedback. Have you considered this? I would seriouslly doubt that a therapist would give a therapy to people with addictive problems that is known to increase impulsiveness. My guess is that a change in your psychology associated with going back to an addiction could only leave you to assume that this neurofeedback made you more impulsive.

Also, everbody varies in their mood, anxiety level, and even impulsivity. This is especially true for very emotionally charged people. If you really did feel an increase in impulsiveness, when you did your neurofeedback could it have just been coincidence?

Quote: "I implore people to not use this therapy, you will regret it like I did." This is statistical ignorance. There are marginally few people who have negitive experiences with neurofeedback. I have done neurofeedback for anxiety and it was an 1000 ton burden lifted from my shoulders. This is not an understatement allthough I don't mean it literally. I have not spent an ounce of time ever regreting the fact that I did neurofeedback. At least for college sake, thank god for neurofeedback is what I say.

Quote: "It is you being an experiment to the clinician." "It is not an exact science." I have nothing to say about these statements. To put it simply, they are stupid things to say.

Quote: "I get this numbing feeling throughout my entire head and brain where I can't even think." I have experienced this once and it was because my therapist turned the reward freqeuncy too high (in otherwords he was going too hard.) And from how you disadvise neurofeedback for those who have headaches, I would guess that this happened to you too. However, if this wasn't the case, then why do you think it is? Because I can basically assure you that there are no people who have experienced this due to neurofeeback that wasn't related to a cranked up reward frequency. Depending on your diagnosis, I wonder if your feelings would have happened even if there wasn't neurofeedback or if they had happened before. This is absolutely most definitally a symptom of both depression and anxiety. "Not being able to think" has been absolutely true for me.

Quote: "Neurofeedback is very dangerous." Don't believe this people. There is absolutely no evidence that supports this statement.



QUOTE(compcoll4000 @ Oct 12, 2009, 05:16 AM) *

[honor roll

Neurofeedback is very dangerous. It made me worse. It triggered extreme impulse control and addictive problems. I get this numbing feeling throughout my entire head and brain where I can't even think. If you have an problems with headaches or brain symptoms do not do this therapy. I believe it is very dangerous. And the Lens protocol of neurofeedback can trigger things even worse then normal neurofeedback. I implore people to not use this therapy, you will regret it like I did. I am now worse then I have ever been from doing neurofeedback training. It is not an exact science. It is you being an experiment to the clinician. And the initial testing is not accurate.

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johnnmillerr
post Jan 09, 2011, 01:59 PM
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I have one more thing to add. Compcoll4000, about your impulsivity, how much of this could be a placebo effect? I was reading and I found this quote...

"Behaviors that are programmed to the degree that the mere thought of them sets off a chain of bodily and psychological events that predispose us to behave in the programmed way." About your addictions, perhaps the neurofeedback set off a chain of thoughts about your addiction or impulse control problems... which predisposed you to have impulse control problems or to go back to an addiction. It wouldn't have been that neurofeedback increased your impulsiveness.

I must say however that ultimately you will find no solution that will literally decrease your symptoms, whatever they may be. The only thing that you will find are ways to avoid increasing them. With this being said, if you are going back and forth from method to method, therapist to therapist, frustrated at each one for "not working," then I would advise you to redefine the goals you have as far as improving your disorder, whatever it may be. I would also advise you to be patient with both your therapist and yourself; do not expect immediate improvement.

Furthermore, I would also advise cognitive-behavioral therapy. (:

QUOTE(johnnmillerr @ Jan 08, 2011, 08:07 PM) *

I disagree with several things you say about neurofeedback compcoll4000.

But first I want to ask if it is not too private... What did you do neurofeedback for?

Quote: "If you have problems with brain symtoms do not do this therapy." I assume that the way you would know that you have problems with brain symtoms is through medication, and neurofeedback is nothing like medication. The two have nothing in common as far as "brain symtoms" goes. Also, neurofeedback does not have symptoms like medication. Each area of the brain which is targeted does specific actions and when we change them it does specific things to our psychology. It is up to the therapist to inform what each one does.

Quote: "If you have any problems with headaches do not take this therapy." Neurofeedback is successful for migrains. If you have heachaches neurofeedback will help. Slight headaches are simply the consequence of the therapist trianing your brain too hard. It is up to you to report honestly whether or not you feel that they should slow down.

Quote: "It triggered exteme impulse control and addictive problems." You and your therapist should have talked about whether increased impulsiveness would have made you more likely to fall into addiction. Did you? Though I'm sorry for your addiction, to contribute your habit entirely to neurofeedback is ludicrous. If you really did become more impulsive, I promice that the change would be relitively slight and that the most it would do is slightly increase the risk of entering back into addiction. Also, you couldn't done very many sessions where increased impulse became apparent enough to stop. Did you?

Once again, assuming that you did become more impulsive, to try to blame your addiction on neurofeedback is completely ludicrous. You had slipped into addiction before, but there had not been neurofeedback to prolong it? Yes? Therefore the odds of it happening again, assuming you're at the point in life I think you're in, are relitively good.

Did you express your concerns to your therapist? What did she/he say? Did you quit therapy? Becuase that would have been extraordinarily unwise. If you did quit, did you quit therapy too soon? Being 19, I have gone to therapy for over two years now. Towards the beginning of my therapy my symtpoms only got worse, yet all the while, my suffering and struggle for my life was being relieved. It wasn't until after the first year that there was a noticable improvement on how I handled my anxiety even though I was still becoming more anxious! Note that how one handles their anxiety is seperate from how much of it they have. For me however, thanks to neurofeeback I'm not nearly as anxious as I was. It also took over 20 sessions just to find a place in my brain to start hammering hard with neurofeedback. And it was not just about the place, it was also about what frequency to target. Neurofeedback is a complicated thing.

To be frank I am seriously wondering whether your increased impulsiveness is simply a figmant of your imagination unrelated to neurofeedback. Have you considered this? I would seriouslly doubt that a therapist would give a therapy to people with addictive problems that is known to increase impulsiveness. My guess is that a change in your psychology associated with going back to an addiction could only leave you to assume that this neurofeedback made you more impulsive.

Also, everbody varies in their mood, anxiety level, and even impulsivity. This is especially true for very emotionally charged people. If you really did feel an increase in impulsiveness, when you did your neurofeedback could it have just been coincidence?

Quote: "I implore people to not use this therapy, you will regret it like I did." This is statistical ignorance. There are marginally few people who have negitive experiences with neurofeedback. I have done neurofeedback for anxiety and it was an 1000 ton burden lifted from my shoulders. This is not an understatement allthough I don't mean it literally. I have not spent an ounce of time ever regreting the fact that I did neurofeedback. At least for college sake, thank god for neurofeedback is what I say.

Quote: "It is you being an experiment to the clinician." "It is not an exact science." I have nothing to say about these statements. To put it simply, they are stupid things to say.

Quote: "I get this numbing feeling throughout my entire head and brain where I can't even think." I have experienced this once and it was because my therapist turned the reward freqeuncy too high (in otherwords he was going too hard.) And from how you disadvise neurofeedback for those who have headaches, I would guess that this happened to you too. However, if this wasn't the case, then why do you think it is? Because I can basically assure you that there are no people who have experienced this due to neurofeeback that wasn't related to a cranked up reward frequency. Depending on your diagnosis, I wonder if your feelings would have happened even if there wasn't neurofeedback or if they had happened before. This is absolutely most definitally a symptom of both depression and anxiety. "Not being able to think" has been absolutely true for me.

Quote: "Neurofeedback is very dangerous." Don't believe this people. There is absolutely no evidence that supports this statement.



QUOTE(compcoll4000 @ Oct 12, 2009, 05:16 AM) *

[honor roll

Neurofeedback is very dangerous. It made me worse. It triggered extreme impulse control and addictive problems. I get this numbing feeling throughout my entire head and brain where I can't even think. If you have an problems with headaches or brain symptoms do not do this therapy. I believe it is very dangerous. And the Lens protocol of neurofeedback can trigger things even worse then normal neurofeedback. I implore people to not use this therapy, you will regret it like I did. I am now worse then I have ever been from doing neurofeedback training. It is not an exact science. It is you being an experiment to the clinician. And the initial testing is not accurate.


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Dream2012
post Aug 06, 2012, 04:00 PM
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I have a question about neurofeedback.

It worked well for the time I was doing it and then it wore off. I at first went to a Neurofeedback practitioner. I then got a neurofeedback machine about 4 years ago. For the first 3 years I did it almost every day 45 minutes a day. The 4th year I took breaks from it because I felt neurofeedback wasn't working as well. I probably was doing it maybe 5 to 6 days a week for a half hour. Now I am afraid to use it because I think it might be causing me electromagnetic field damage. I don't feel it is working that well. I have an Atlantas II Brainmaster neurofeedback machine. I know I did it way to much but when it was working for me I loved the effects. Do you think it is possible to have electromagnetic field damage from doing neurofeedback this much? I am really afraid. Responses are appreciated

Thanks,
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aethor
post Aug 08, 2012, 08:58 AM
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Well, what part of the machinery is emitting electromagnetic fields? You probably expose yourself to MUCH higher magnetic fields when you stroll around outside, or inside for that matter. High voltage power lines will pose a health risk. Or maybe you sleep with Atlantas II turned on every night?
You could pick up a Trifield 100XE EMF M to measure if you are concerned.
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potheadfreedom
post Jun 24, 2014, 06:53 PM
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Its impossible to argue with the people in charge of these businesses' similar to asking Hitler to free Jews. They can say they are doing good but so do dictators across the world. Idk if anyone else had to go a place and do this like therapy where your asked questions and they inform you on how your brain activity is, but I did and the lady said pot made my brain activity worst. So I didn't tell her the next couple time and guess what, she was constantly telling me I was really progressing and my brain was really heathy. By the way, studies on how pot effects the brain is a crime in the US because they need to find a way to make profit before legalization. Anyway, after the third cession I informed her I was high during the past three cessions without her knowledge and her face went blank.
What Im tring to get across is that theres too much deceit and we cant trust them. Yea I deceived her but it was to get the truth about marijuana out of a scientific person. Although I don't smoke pot anymore because ever since I get sick if I do smoke too much, unlike before the studies. But I am now extremely addicted to tv, video games and coffee. Wasn't before though, although I am still addicted to cigs about the same amount
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