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> On the Mental Representation of the Objective World, the stubborn illusion of the external world
forgottenpresence
post Nov 10, 2007, 09:35 AM
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You will find your answer if you read back a bit.. no need to be blind.

Your attacks are rather childish and egotistical, try pointing your finger at yourself to see your own identification. I dare you! We are both identifying with our projections, is it so hard to see this? Wipe the dust from your goggles.
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 10, 2007, 10:21 AM
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BAHAH you are the biggest load of BS ego I've ever seen.

This proves my point -

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3183

Keep on preaching, know-it-all.

Socrates would smack you.
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Joesus
post Nov 10, 2007, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE
You will find your answer if you read back a bit.. no need to be blind.

I made my statement in reference to your posts....all of them actually.
QUOTE

Your attacks are rather childish and egotistical, try pointing your finger at yourself to see your own identification. I dare you! We are both identifying with our projections, is it so hard to see this?

Rather than see it as an attack, and being a victim, try to see the conscious creation.
Instead of identifying with the creation/projection and a personality, seek the creator or point of creation.
QUOTE
Keep on preaching, know-it-all.

I never preach..
QUOTE

Socrates would smack you.

I wouldn't assume Socrates would take a side based on someone elses opinion or experience.
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 11, 2007, 09:22 AM
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Love and light, Dark master!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YLwI3bslOS0
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 11, 2007, 10:55 AM
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behind the conceptual framework of a dark master lies an aura that a self healed quartz could recognize any day, i know a dark aura when i see one.



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forgottenpresence
post Nov 11, 2007, 11:05 AM
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people can seem so perfect on the outside, it is like a seemingly perfect relationship with absolutely no love. when i look at a couple who are together i can see if there is love or not. it resonates so clearly. this is clear, Joesus if you have realized unconditional love you would not be who you are now.
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Joesus
post Nov 11, 2007, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE

behind the conceptual framework of a dark master lies an aura that a self healed quartz could recognize any day, i know a dark aura when i see one..... We are both identifying with our projections, is it so hard to see this?


I think what you recognize is what you believe is outside of you and separate from you. Which is why you seek to know yourself with the external senses.

Unconditional love has no conditions. I think you seek to qualify love with the projections of your limited scope of reference.

RODAN'S GREEK PHILOSOPHY




Early Monday morning, Rodan began a series of ten addresses to Nathaniel, Thomas, and a group of some two dozen believers who chanced to be at Magadan. These talks, condensed, combined, and restated in modern phraseology, present the following thoughts for consideration:
Human life consists in three great drives--urges, desires, and lures. Strong character, commanding personality, is only acquired by converting the natural urge of life into the social art of living, by transforming present desires into those higher longings which are capable of lasting attainment, while the commonplace lure of existence must be transferred from one's conventional and established ideas to the higher realms of unexplored ideas and undiscovered ideals.
The more complex civilization becomes, the more difficult will become the art of living. The more rapid the changes in social usage, the more complicated will become the task of character development. Every ten generations mankind must learn anew the art of living if progress is to continue. And if man becomes so ingenious that he more rapidly adds to the complexities of society, the art of living will need to be remastered in less time, perhaps every single generation. If the evolution of the art of living fails to keep pace with the technique of existence, humanity will quickly revert to the simple urge of living--the attainment of the satisfaction of present desires. Thus will humanity remain immature; society will fail in growing up to full maturity.
Social maturity is equivalent to the degree to which man is willing to surrender the gratification of mere transient and present desires for the entertainment of those superior longings the striving for whose attainment affords the more abundant satisfactions of progressive advancement toward permanent goals. But the true badge of social maturity is the willingness of a people to surrender the right to live peaceably and contentedly under the ease-promoting standards of the lure of established beliefs and conventional ideas for the disquieting and energy-requiring lure of the pursuit of the unexplored possibilities of the attainment of undiscovered goals of idealistic spiritual realities.
Animals respond nobly to the urge of life, but only man can attain the art of living, albeit the majority of mankind only experience the animal urge to live. Animals know only this blind and instinctive urge; man is capable of transcending this urge to natural function. Man may elect to live upon the high plane of intelligent art, even that of celestial joy and spiritual ecstasy. Animals make no inquiry into the purposes of life; therefore they never worry, neither do they commit suicide. Suicide among men testifies that such beings have emerged from the purely animal stage of existence, and to the further fact that the exploratory efforts of such human beings have failed to attain the artistic levels of mortal experience. Animals know not the meaning of life; man not only possesses capacity for the recognition of values and the comprehension of meanings, but he also is conscious of the meaning of meanings--he is self-conscious of insight.
When men dare to forsake a life of natural craving for one of adventurous art and uncertain logic, they must expect to suffer the consequent hazards of emotional casualties--conflicts, unhappiness, and uncertainties--at least until the time of their attainment of some degree of intellectual and emotional maturity. Discouragement, worry, and indolence are positive evidence of moral immaturity. Human society is confronted with two problems: attainment of the maturity of the individual and attainment of the maturity of the race. The mature human being soon begins to look upon all other mortals with feelings of tenderness and with emotions of tolerance. Mature men view immature folks with the love and consideration that parents bear their children.
Successful living is nothing more or less than the art of the mastery of dependable techniques for solving common problems. The first step in the solution of any problem is to locate the difficulty, to isolate the problem, and frankly to recognize its nature and gravity. The great mistake is that, when life problems excite our profound fears, we refuse to recognize them. Likewise, when the acknowledgment of our difficulties entails the reduction of our long-cherished conceit, the admission of envy, or the abandonment of deep-seated prejudices, the average person prefers to cling to the old illusions of safety and to the long-cherished false feelings of security. Only a brave person is willing honestly to admit, and fearlessly to face, what a sincere and logical mind discovers.
The wise and effective solution of any problem demands that the mind shall be free from bias, passion, and all other purely personal prejudices which might interfere with the disinterested survey of the actual factors that go to make up the problem presenting itself for solution. The solution of life problems requires courage and sincerity. Only honest and brave individuals are able to follow valiantly through the perplexing and confusing maze of living to where the logic of a fearless mind may lead. And this emancipation of the mind and soul can never be effected without the driving power of an intelligent enthusiasm which borders on religious zeal. It requires the lure of a great ideal to drive man on in the pursuit of a goal which is beset with difficult material problems and manifold intellectual hazards.
Even though you are effectively armed to meet the difficult situations of life, you can hardly expect success unless you are equipped with that wisdom of mind and charm of personality which enable you to win the hearty support and co-operation of your fellows. You cannot hope for a large measure of success in either secular or religious work unless you can learn how to persuade your fellows, to prevail with men. You simply must have tact and tolerance.
But the greatest of all methods of problem solving I have learned from Jesus, your Master. I refer to that which he so consistently practices, and which he has so faithfully taught you, the isolation of worshipful meditation. In this habit of Jesus' going off so frequently by himself to commune with the Father in heaven is to be found the technique, not only of gathering strength and wisdom for the ordinary conflicts of living, but also of appropriating the energy for the solution of the higher problems of a moral and spiritual nature. But even correct methods of solving problems will not compensate for inherent defects of personality or atone for the absence of the hunger and thirst for true righteousness.
I am deeply impressed with the custom of Jesus in going apart by himself to engage in these seasons of solitary survey of the problems of living; to seek for new stores of wisdom and energy for meeting the manifold demands of social service; to quicken and deepen the supreme purpose of living by actually subjecting the total personality to the consciousness of contacting with divinity; to grasp for possession of new and better methods of adjusting oneself to the ever-changing situations of living existence; to effect those vital reconstructions and readjustments of one's personal attitudes which are so essential to enhanced insight into everything worth while and real; and to do all of this with an eye single to the glory of God--to breathe in sincerity your Master's favorite prayer, "Not my will, but yours, be done."
This worshipful practice of your Master brings that relaxation which renews the mind; that illumination which inspires the soul; that courage which enables one bravely to face one's problems; that self-understanding which obliterates debilitating fear; and that consciousness of union with divinity which equips man with the assurance that enables him to dare to be Godlike. The relaxation of worship, or spiritual communion as practiced by the Master, relieves tension, removes conflicts, and mightily augments the total resources of the personality. And all this philosophy, plus the gospel of the kingdom, constitutes the new religion as I understand it.
Prejudice blinds the soul to the recognition of truth, and prejudice can be removed only by the sincere devotion of the soul to the adoration of a cause that is all-embracing and all-inclusive of one's fellow men. Prejudice is inseparably linked to selfishness. Prejudice can be eliminated only by the abandonment of self-seeking and by substituting therefor the quest of the satisfaction of the service of a cause that is not only greater than self, but one that is even greater than all humanity--the search for God, the attainment of divinity. The evidence of maturity of personality consists in the transformation of human desire so that it constantly seeks for the realization of those values which are highest and most divinely real.
In a continually changing world, in the midst of an evolving social order, it is impossible to maintain settled and established goals of destiny. Stability of personality
can be experienced only by those who have discovered and embraced the living God as the eternal goal of infinite attainment. And thus to transfer one's goal from time to eternity, from earth to Paradise, from the human to the divine, requires that man shall become regenerated, converted, be born again; that he shall become the re-created child of the divine spirit; that he shall gain entrance into the brotherhood of the kingdom of heaven. All philosophies and religions which fall short of these ideals are immature. The philosophy which I teach, linked with the gospel which you preach, represents the new religion of maturity, the ideal of all future generations. And this is true because our ideal is final, infallible, eternal, universal, absolute, and infinite.
My philosophy gave me the urge to search for the realities of true attainment, the goal of maturity. But my urge was impotent; my search lacked driving power; my quest suffered from the absence of certainty of directionization. And these deficiencies have been abundantly supplied by this new gospel of Jesus, with its enhancement of insights, elevation of ideals, and settledness of goals. Without doubts and misgivings I can now wholeheartedly enter upon the eternal venture.
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Joesus
post Nov 11, 2007, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE
people can seem so perfect on the outside, it is like a seemingly perfect relationship with absolutely no love. when i look at a couple who are together i can see if there is love or not. it resonates so clearly. this is clear, Joesus if you have realized unconditional love you would not be who you are now.

The resonance of sensual love or love of the senses is an outward experience, however unconditional love is not necessarily apparent, for condition-less love (love without conditions) does not often make itself apparent until diversity of conditions draw it forward.
A couple who are experiencing attached love may not be so forgiving if one or the other steps over the line made in the conditions of co-dependence and attachment. For example, if the partner in a relationship happens to have feelings for the others older sister or brother, the first reaction to attached love or love with conditions is jealousy and a tendency to move away from the relationship to protect ones self from the feelings they are having in not wanting to share the love with anyone else.
The waking state sense of love is such that we as individuals seek to find completion or wholeness thru relationship. The essence of this reality is that we are incomplete in ourselves and seek to fill the hole or gap that keeps us from feeling complete.
Most relationships today are forms of attached love where lovers are unforgiving when their partner expresses their love to more than one person at a time. Mostly they are protective of ownership and aggressive in defining certain attributes and rules about what takes place in relationship.

Someone who has themselves risen to a state of being in which they are whole and without the need for co-dependent relationship and is not threatened by jealousies and judgments of the ego, will never try to own another, nor will they need to seek love from another. Instead they are willing to share the love they have, without a need to get anything in return, in order to expand it into their experience of creation.
This type of love is not a romantic love, or a feeling love but a condition-less love that expands conscious awareness. It is both a gentle and a ruthless love, that makes nothing special, and at the same time finds the essence of the divine in everything it experiences.

To the ego this love is threatening, it seeks to undermine everything the ego wants to make special, in feelings and attachment to the relative world, in relative addictions to sensory pleasure, and attachments to identity with what the personality makes real.
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Flex
post Nov 11, 2007, 12:07 PM
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I agree. The more I identify with true love (agape) the less I seek romantic love (eros) and brotherly love (philia). Eros and philia have recently in my mind become no greater than desire, something to be attained, a posession, whereas the new love I have been harboring is universal--for all men, all of life, all that is and is not--but not necessarily apparent to others.
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 12, 2007, 10:01 AM
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Tell me something I don't know, Joe. And you said you didn't preach... happy.gif
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Joesus
post Nov 15, 2007, 09:50 AM
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QUOTE(forgottenpresence @ Nov 12, 2007, 06:01 PM) *

Tell me something I don't know, Joe. And you said you didn't preach... happy.gif

OK.
QUOTE
Joesus if you have realized unconditional love you would not be who you are now.

You would be projecting what I would be and how I should act from expectation only.

In the story of the Mahabharata, Krishna danced amongst the death and destruction to the horror of Arjuna, singing "God, God..everywhere God"

Perhaps you could extend your expectations as far as they will go and a bit further, and maybe you will find Unconditional love as the support for all reality rather than an experience to be labeled by the mind.
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 16, 2007, 02:19 AM
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You dictate the way things are, and you speak from a authoritative point of view, like you know absolute truth and I don't. Unconditional love does not speak these things.
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trojan_libido
post Nov 16, 2007, 03:02 AM
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QUOTE(Wafa)
Can I define something without referral to a higher and abstract level than it.

Can I, define mind and consciousness by using the same mind and consciousness??? Or I have to access a higher level??
I thought I'd try and get this train off these destructive rails for a moment. What Wafa said is exactly the kind of critical thinking I expected from this thread, instead its lost its direction a little.

How can the mind ever understand its nature from critical thinking? Isn't it similar to trying to define other peoples perceptions of yourself, without being able to ask them? What I find interesting is the lack of real world evidence and examples when people talk about duality, unity, enlightenment. Where is the research dealing with our perceptions. How does our brain store mental representations?

So many questions, so much old ground being covered...
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Joesus
post Nov 16, 2007, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE(forgottenpresence @ Nov 16, 2007, 10:19 AM) *

You dictate the way things are, and you speak from a authoritative point of view, like you know absolute truth and I don't. Unconditional love does not speak these things.

So you've set conditions for unconditional love, in the way it looks and comes to you. A place where God doesn't exist.

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forgottenpresence
post Nov 17, 2007, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Nov 16, 2007, 08:34 AM) *

QUOTE(forgottenpresence @ Nov 16, 2007, 10:19 AM) *

You dictate the way things are, and you speak from a authoritative point of view, like you know absolute truth and I don't. Unconditional love does not speak these things.

So you've set conditions for unconditional love, in the way it looks and comes to you. A place where God doesn't exist.


Actually I speak through personal experience, the people I observe in my day to day life who have these characteristics are very hard to connect with and they do not resonate with compassion and unconditional love. Nice way to manipulate your way out of that one.
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Joesus
post Nov 17, 2007, 07:32 PM
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You mean the people you observe who do not meet your expectations are hard for you to accept and as such do not meet your standard for compassion and love. Under these conditions unconditional love doesn't exist.

How could it as long as there are conditions to be met?
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 18, 2007, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Nov 17, 2007, 07:32 PM) *

You mean the people you observe who do not meet your expectations are hard for you to accept and as such do not meet your standard for compassion and love. Under these conditions unconditional love doesn't exist.

How could it as long as there are conditions to be met?


What is, is. Only the egoic mind could not identify an arrogant power-needing person from an open-minded compassionate person, or those in between. Take your standard american arrogant power-whore cop. It has nothing to do with my expectations, it is an observation.

You are just bringing ego into this - conceptualizing what is and using manipulation and psychology to work your way around this debate to make yourself appear on top. Compassion is compassion and arrogance is arrogance. Power whores are power whores, american cops are american cops... get my drift?

I don't expect much in people, but I know an egotistical power-whore when I see one.
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forgottenpresence
post Nov 18, 2007, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Nov 16, 2007, 03:02 AM) *
I thought I'd try and get this train off these destructive rails for a moment.


Whats wrong with a little destruction? There can be a positive side to destruction too tongue.gif

A dark flower needs to die - somebody
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Joesus
post Nov 18, 2007, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE
What is, is. Only the egoic mind could not identify an arrogant power-needing person from an open-minded compassionate person, or those in between. Take your standard american arrogant power-whore cop. It has nothing to do with my expectations, it is an observation.

Only an egoic mind would identify creation or what is, as anything other than God and ones own creation.
QUOTE
You are just bringing ego into this - conceptualizing what is and using manipulation and psychology to work your way around this debate to make yourself appear on top. Compassion is compassion and arrogance is arrogance. Power whores are power whores, american cops are american cops... get my drift?

Compassion is as you understand it, is from a place where you see something other than God and your own creation. Some place other than Unity, a place where power-whore companies exist that are not part of you.
A place where everything that comes to you is divided amongst rationalizations of what you accept and what you don't as part of your path and spirituality as you accept it, a place of and from, the self indulgence you identify with.
QUOTE

I don't expect much in people, but I know an egotistical power-whore when I see one.

That would be the reflection of self indulgence, expectation, and the aversion to what exists inside of you.

QUOTE
A dark flower needs to die

Who would seek to kill God, other than a dark force of self indulgence?
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