Guidelines for Moderators and Admins Options

[lucid_dream]

Recent events have necessitated a clear statement of Guidelines for Moderators and Admins, so here goes.

A central goal of BrainMeta forum is:
A) to ensure worthwhile dialog and exchange of thoughts on the forum, and to promote open-mindedness.

The clear guidelines for both moderators and admins will be:
1) uphold A).
2) keep posts topical, and if they veer off-topic, move to a new thread.
3) the only posts that get deleted are blatant spam and blatantly offensive personal attacks.
4) try to maintain critical objectivity.

The difference between moderators and admins resides in that, as a general rule of thumb, moderators provide quality control over member posts, whereas admins additionally provide quality control over moderator actions. Who provides quality control over admin actions? Forum members do this indirectly, thereby providing a balance of power.

With the intent to avoid potential moderator/admin conflicts, admins should consult with moderators behind the scenes before possible restriction of moderator actions, unless doing so conflicts with A).

[code buttons]

Sounds easy enough to me. I've followed these rules by way of commons sense since the begining as a moderator. But I can always improve on it if pointed out to me.

[lucid_dream]

I should point out that the situation with Hey Hey was a first, and that never before in BrainMeta history has an admin over-ruled a moderator's actions. However, my response was to immediately remedy what I felt was unfair censorship of a worthy contributor. Hopefully this type of admin/moderator conflict will not recur, but if it does, every attempt will first be made to do it more tactfully and behind the scenes. My apologies to Hey Hey if he felt I acted too hastily; if I could do it again, I would have PMed him first.

[maximus242]

I think you could have handled things better Lucid, you should have talked things out between HeyHey and Joesus rather than taking away his moderation powers.

HeyHey has the most posts out of everyone on Brain Meta and I really like HeyHey as a person. Everyone has their quirks and I think HeyHey was just having a bad week. You only really heard one side of the story, has Hey Hey admitted to deleting these posts? Are we certain that Joesus wasnt spamming?

Now Hey Hey and Joesus are both fine people and I respect both of them. I don't think it was fair to take away HeyHey's moderating with no warning or a fair discussion between him before hand. You have really only listened to one side of the story and I am a bit pissed that you acted this way so suddenly and without warning. Especially to someone who has contributed so much to Brain Meta.

I could see you doing this to someone who just got moderation powers, but not to someone who has been here for so long and doing so much contributing for such a long period of time.

I think we need to hold some sort of public discussion about this because I don't agree with what happened or how things were handled and this needs to be fixed. You should have at least given him a warning and talked to him, taking away his moderation powers like that is just not like you at all Lucid.

[lucid_dream]

I don't think it was fair to take away HeyHey's moderating with no warning or a fair discussion between him before hand. You have really only listened to one side of the story and I am a bit pissed that you acted this way so suddenly and without warning. Especially to someone who has contributed so much to Brain Meta.

I agree that Hey Hey has contributed a lot and that I should have PMed him before taking action. But to clarify, 1) I did confirm that posts from a valuable member were being deleted by Hey Hey for purely personal reasons (i.e., no good reason), and 2) I only temporarily disabled Hey Hey's moderating powers from the Enlightenment, Philosophy, and Theology boards so as to prevent further deletions until the situation was fully resolved. The reason I didn't PM him is because I thought it would not be enough to sway his actions in time.

[maximus242]

Hmm, well it defiantly is the first case I've ever heard of such a thing happening on Brain Meta. I am a bit shocked that it did happen because Brain Meta is so very much about free speech. I do think that it is very important that one of Brain Meta's highest ideals, free speech for everyone should always be upheld.

There have been some issues lately with Joesus possibly trying to take threads off topic to promote various god and theological beliefs. Although I'm not confirming this is happening, he has been accused of it. So this was my first thought in regards to Joesus' posts being deleted.

It is a bit strange to hear about this though, I never really thought something like this would be happening. Whether or not I agree with someones opinion, I always believe they have the right to express that opinion - I think thats one of things that makes Brain Meta so great.

[lucid_dream]

I never really thought something like this would be happening. Whether or not I agree with someones opinion, I always believe they have the right to express that opinion - I think thats one of things that makes Brain Meta so great.

those are my thoughts exactly. Do I agree with everything Joesus says? Of course not. Do I think that warrants censoring his posts? Never, as he has made many thoughtful posts and to delete them simply because you disagree with him goes completely against what this forum is about. I have no idea why Hey Hey would have done that; in retrospect, I should have done more behind the scenes. But what's done is done. Maybe Hey Hey will provide his side of things to bring more balance to the discussion.

[code buttons]

But what's done is done

He was made to feel cornered and out of face-saving options, in my opinion. I doubt if he'll ever comeback. I do hope I'm wrong, though.

[Rick]

There have been some issues lately with Joesus possibly trying to take threads off topic to promote various god and theological beliefs. Although I'm not confirming this is happening, he has been accused of it. So this was my first thought in regards to Joesus' posts being deleted.

Can anyone cite an example of Joesus promoting some god or theological beliefs? I monitored the thread in which the contention arose, and have read many of Joesus' postings in other threads, and it seems to me that Joesus does not proselytize (although he has been accused of that before, particularly by Dan). My impression of Joesus' philosophy is that it most closely resembles Buddhism, and Buddhists do not promote gods or theologies.

Apparently Hey Hey can dish it out but can't take it. He has been involved in the persecutions of some former members before, whose posts I thought at the time were being unfairly deleted. Now that the deletion criteria are clear, people may be less afraid to speak their minds.

[Joesus]

He was made to feel cornered and out of face-saving options, in my opinion. I doubt if he'll ever comeback. I do hope I'm wrong, though.

How could anyone be made or forced to feel something against ones will?
Are you suggesting Hey Hey hasn't the ability to own and take charge of his feelings?
If this is the case then it stands to reason that his inability to remain neutral as a moderator would eventually create this situation.

If he never comes back it would be of his own choice and not necessarily by the will of anyone here at BM.

Any idea of saving face will be according to ones own self judgment and sense of freedom from being the victim.

[code buttons]

I wish to speak no further about the subject. It's getting boring.

[Joesus]

This is where HH was when he started deleting my posts...

[rhymer]

Hey Hey,

Nil carborundum bastardum !!!!

There is too much to learn about people to stay away from this site.

My computer is misbehaving recently (no explorer or task bar and unable to empty recycle bin is causing hiccups and constipation) so I have not seen what has happened here recently.
Whatever, your contributions are too valuable to be missed!!

[code buttons]

This is where HH was when he started deleting my posts...

Don't go there, J! My gun is bigger than yours! Hee hee!

[Joesus]

Repressing your feelings?

[code buttons]

Repressing your feelings?

About what?

[Enki]

Maybe the forum is Hacked again?

At the end of the page, after the phrase
"The newest member is " there is no user name? Though it always was there.

Do I watch from here, from my country, a mirror page ?

[Enki]

Strange now it changed back to the proper state.

[kortikal]

I've seen this on other forums too.

probably a forum bug.

[Enki]

One day I will catch that bug and we will see who is who.

[rhymer]

I don't even have " the newest member is" at the bottom of my page, let alone the members name!
Where on the page is it supposed to be?

[code buttons]

I don't even have " the newest member is" at the bottom of my page, let alone the members name!
Where on the page is it supposed to be?

Click on the "Forum" link at the bottom of this page and then scroll down to the bottom of the Forum page. Then look for a sub-menu with the title "Board Statistics".

[Enki]

Dear Moderators,

I want to draw your attention to the following fact: two active members of the Brain Meta – Hey Hey and Trojan_Libido left the forum due to Joesus behavior.

I am asking you to find some permanent solution to the problem.

Thank you in advance,
Enki

[lucid_dream]

Dear Moderators,

I want to draw your attention to the following fact: two active members of the Brain Meta – Hey Hey and Trojan_Libido left the forum due to Joesus behavior.

I am asking you to find some permanent solution to the problem.

Thank you in advance,
Enki

Hey Hey left because I removed him as moderator from a board in which he was arguably abusing his moderator abilities to delete opposing points of view. I'm not aware of Trojan_libido leaving. Posting contrary points of view is not an offense, and is encouraged at BrainMeta. Hijacking threads is a different matter, and should be dealt with accordingly. In my opinion, the originator of a thread has the most say in determining what is relevant to the thread and in determining what direction to take it in. If someone posts a contrary viewpoint, that in itself is not reason enough for deleting the post if it is a valid viewpoint. If you wish not to see particular member's posts, for whatever reason, one option is always to go to the person's profile, click on 'Profile Options', and then select 'Ignore User'.

[Enki]

Hey Hey is a proper, liberal and educated person. If he started to remove something it means that that something was of some extraordinary strange and irritating character. The case with Trojan confirms the fact that the Problem exists.

I ask you to pay your attention to the problem as a moderator.

And please do not try to explain primitive things to me. We all know that. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that Hey Hey, Trojan and I got extremely irritated by very specific stylistic in writing of Joesus. I have no doubts that you very clearly understand what exactly we have noted. So please do not try to mask the problem by conventional explanations and argumentations. We are not children here.

[trojan_libido]

I apologise for my outburst, but not to Joesus. I gave ample space for his ramblings and asked on several occasions to actually talk about what was being discussed in a manner that forwarded the thread somewhat, in whatever direction that may be. But it does feel that its 8+ posts of no substance for every one with an opinion. I was and still am open to opinions and views, but unless they are spoken about in a fashion that can be understood, they are nothing more than thread pollution. I think the action on Hey Hey has diminished the ability of the other mods to act, for fear of being suspended.

[Joesus]

I'm not looking for an apology Trojan.
I believe you should be able to express yourself emotionally without another getting caught in the turmoil.

I was and still am open to opinions and views, but unless they are spoken about in a fashion that can be understood, they are nothing more than thread pollution.

Anything can be understood if you are listening. And if it doesn't resonate you can simply let it go. If you can't let it go then usually what happens is the emotional attachment shows you where you bite and that is something completely within your own control.
I think a moderator should be able to stay neutral rather than invest themselves in personal opinions.

[lucid_dream]

I ask you to pay your attention to the problem as a moderator.

And please do not try to explain primitive things to me. We all know that. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that Hey Hey, Trojan and I got extremely irritated by very specific stylistic in writing of Joesus. I have no doubts that you very clearly understand what exactly we have noted. So please do not try to mask the problem by conventional explanations and argumentations. We are not children here.

I am paying attention, but honestly I don't get what all the fuss is about. So Joesus challenges your viewpoint and rarely gives you the answer, validation, or response you desire; so what? It's not like he's saying, "F off, M*thaF*er!". He's been quite respectful the entire time, yet because he doesn't give you the answers you want to hear, or validate your viewpoints, that irritates you to the extent that you call for moderator action? Is there something I'm missing here?

If it's just a question of cleaning up threads and removing meaningless blurbs, that's a completely different matter and is a job for mods. I'd do it myself but haven't gotten around to it.

[Flex]

I think it is definitely a matter of cleaning up... The threads have all turned into the same subject--religion.

[lucid_dream]

I think it is definitely a matter of cleaning up... The threads have all turned into the same subject--religion.

any objective volunteers?