The God Experiments Options

[Hey Hey]

In a recent discussion with Joesus on a related topic, I mentioned an article originating from the Dawkin's website. I can't remember if it's been discussed specifically on this board, so I've posted it and a URl below. If you've seen it before, please ignore at your leisure.


http://discovermagazine.com/2006/dec/god-experiments/?page=1
The God Experiments
Five researchers take science where it's never gone before.
by John Horgan


Three years ago, the British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins became a guinea pig in an experiment. Neuroscientist Michael Persinger claimed he had induced religious experiences in subjects by stimulating specific regions of their brains with electromagnetic pulses. Dawkins, renowned for his biological theories as well as for his criticism of religion, volunteered to test Persinger's electromagnetic device�the "God machine," as some journalists dubbed it. "I've always been curious to know what it would be like to have a mystical experience," Dawkins said shortly before the experiment. Afterward, he admitted on BBC that he was "very disappointed" that he did not experience "communion with the universe" or some other spiritual sensation.


Neurobiologist Michael Persinger has devised a wired helmet that he says induces religious experiences in those who wear it.

Courtesy of Vivien Hoang, Laurentian University Neuroscience Research Group

Many researchers, like Persinger, view the brain as the key to understanding religion. Others focus on psychological, genetic, and biochemical origins. The science of religion has historical precedents, with Sigmund Freud and William James addressing the topic early in the last century. Now modern researchers are applying brain scans, genetic probes, and other potent instruments as they attempt to locate the physiological causes of religious experience, characterize its effects, perhaps replicate it, and perhaps even begin to explain its abiding influence.
The endeavor is controversial, stretching science to its limits. Religion is arguably the most complex manifestation of the most complex phenomenon known to science, the human mind. Religion's dimensions range from the intensely personal to the cultural and political. Additionally, researchers come to study religious experiences with very different motives and assumptions. Some of them hope that their studies will inform and enrich faith. Others see religion as an embarrassing relic of our past, and they want to explain it away.

"Even when the neural basis of religion has been identified, it remains a plausible interpretation of any conceivable neuropsychological facts that there is a genuine experience of God," notes Fraser Watts, a psychologist and theologian at the University of Cambridge and an Anglican vicar. A major funder of research on religion is the John Templeton Foundation, started in 1987 by the Christian financier John Templeton to promote "collaboration" between science and religion.

The theories described below illustrate the diversity of scientific approaches to understanding religion. All these theories are tentative at best, and some will almost certainly turn out to be wrong. The field suffers from vague terminology, disagreement about what exactly "religion" is, and which of its aspects are most important. Does religion consist primarily of behaviors, such as attending church or following certain moral precepts? Or does it consist of beliefs�in God or in an afterlife? Is religion best studied as a set of experiences, such as the inchoate feelings of connection to the rest of nature that can occur during prayer or meditation? Comparing studies is often an exercise in comparing apples and oranges. Nonetheless, the science merits close attention.

Inventing God

Stewart Guthrie, an anthropologist at Fordham University in New York, is in the explain-it-away camp of researchers. Noting the plethora of gods that populate the world's religions, many with minds and emotions similar to our own, Guthrie argues that the belief in supernatural beings is a result of an illusion that arises from our tendency to project human qualities onto the world. Religion "may be best understood as systematic anthropomorphism," he writes in his book, Faces in the Clouds.

Anthropomorphism is an adaptive trait that enhanced our ancestors' chances of survival, he adds. If a Neanderthal mistook a tree creaking outside his cave for a human assailant, he suffered no adverse consequences beyond a moment's panic. If the Neanderthal made the opposite error�mistaking an assailant for a tree�the consequences might have been dire. In other words, better safe than sorry. Over millennia, as natural selection bolstered our unconscious anthropomorphic tendencies, they reached beyond specific objects and events to encompass all of nature, goes Guthrie's theory, until we persuaded ourselves that "the entire world of our experience is merely a show staged by some master dramatist."



Humans are not alone in this trait. In The Descent of Man, Charles Darwin noted that many "higher mammals" share the human propensity "to imagine that natural objects and agencies are animated by spiritual or living essences." As an example, he recalled watching his dog growl at a parasol lifted off the ground by a gust of wind.

Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania, has focused on the tendency of people from different religious traditions to report similar mystical experiences, which typically involve sensations of self-transcendence and "oneness." These commonalities indicate that the visions stem from the same neural processes, Newberg hypothesizes. To test his theory, Newberg has scanned the brains of more than 20 adherents of spiritual practices, including Christian prayer and Tibetan Buddhist meditation. He uses a technique called single- photon-emission-computed tomography, or SPECT, a variant of the better-known positron-emission tomography, PET.

The chief advantage of SPECT is that it can capture the brains of meditators in a relatively natural setting. The subject meditates not in the SPECT chamber itself but in a separate room. When a subject�a Franciscan nun, in one case�feels her ordinary self "dissolving into Christ consciousness," as she describes it, a radioactive fluid is injected into her body through an intravenous tube; the fluid travels to her brain and becomes trapped in nerve cells there. The nun then goes to the SPECT chamber, where a computer-controlled camera scans her brain. The resulting image reveals levels of neural activity in the moment immediately after she received the radioactive fluid, when she presumably was still immersed in contemplation.

[trojan_libido]

Well if there is physical evidence that meditation can cause spiritual nirvana/religious experiences, then these experiences are part of human physiology. The fact the experience can alter a persons outlook, behaviour and even morality points to the question of whether these experiences are necessary for our culture to exist?

I think these experiences come when the body is ready to receive them, whether we're opened up through a traumatic event (Kundalini rising), search for wisdom (mental clarity), or years of meditation (silencing the mind). There is a underlying resonance to the Universe, cosmic Aum style of thing. Maybe this resonance is tapped into when people experience this Divine spirit, or maybe they're just on the edge of a coma

Its still pretty freaky how we've been revering these hallucinations in history. I wonder how many modern saints are locked up in nut-houses for their "visions".

[Hey Hey]

There is a underlying resonance to the Universe, cosmic Aum style of thing. Maybe this resonance is tapped into when people experience this Divine spirit, or maybe they're just on the edge of a coma

Is this your belief or do you have empirical evidence?
--
It's not surprising that the mind can be used to control even "unconscious physiology". After all, it controls loads of conscious physiology. So there's no real need to look for a paraphysiological or parapsycological mechanism. We could probably control much more of the unconscious stuff, but who wants to spend a lifetime practicing how to meditate just to be able cause the gall bladder to squirt some extra bile after a Big Mac. That would be almost as interesting as jogging!
--
Back to topic, why should it mean if some magnetic helmet causes god visions that the visions/experiences that the religious say they have are invalid? That's like saying if you electrically stimulate a region of the brain or cord to cause a pain experience that the usual type of pain is also an illusion (that's a poor analogy I know). Hey, what am I saying - I just turned into a believer?

[trojan_libido]

There is a underlying resonance to the Universe, cosmic Aum style of thing. Maybe this resonance is tapped into when people experience this Divine spirit, or maybe they're just on the edge of a coma

Is this your belief or do you have empirical evidence?

No evidence, just an educated guess after looking at the effects of cymatics and a little research. Its definately part of my beliefs, minus the strange helmet.

It's not surprising that the mind can be used to control even "unconscious physiology". After all, it controls loads of conscious physiology. So there's no real need to look for a paraphysiological or parapsycological mechanism. We could probably control much more of the unconscious stuff, but who wants to spend a lifetime practicing how to meditate just to be able cause the gall bladder to squirt some extra bile after a Big Mac. That would be almost as interesting as jogging!

Experiencing Nirvana is a slightly better prize than squirting bile! Although there are plenty body functions I'd like more control of, hehe

Back to topic, why should it mean if some magnetic helmet causes god visions that the visions/experiences that the religious say they have are invalid? That's like saying if you electrically stimulate a region of the brain or cord to cause a pain experience that the usual type of pain is also an illusion (that's a poor analogy I know). Hey, what am I saying - I just turned into a believer?

I don't believe finding the trigger for mystical visions would invalidate them. There would still be the mystery of how they are triggered, and why they contain the imagery they do. The actual imagery has been dismissed because its obviously impossible to validate a persons experience. They are clearly hallucinations, and some people experience these visions throughout their lives naturally. Again, I dont believe this invalidates the content of the experience, it just brings it into a scientific context.