Zeitgeist the movie Options

[Joesus]

what if your Self realization is a delusion, a pleasant lie?

What if it isn't?

You claim identity with God but you don't know this for certain.

You don't know that I don't know this for certain.
If I tell you I do know for certain you won't believe me anyway.

Have you considered, what if your ideas about identity with God are incorrect?

I don't have any ideas about an identity with God. God doesn't have an identity.
But it sounds like you have plenty of ideas about God and those who have an affection for God.

Does enlightenment mean the loss of a critical, questioning mind and the acceptance of fantasy notions?

You would only know if you are enlightened what it means to be enlightened. Everything else is subject to projection from an awareness of not being enlightened.
Do you believe in enlightenment?

If you believe to be identical to God, then so is the lowest life form, the earth slug. Are you comparable to an earth slug?

You could compare me to an earth slug, you could compare me to you (which is most likely more accurate at the moment).

Clearly we need to differentiate the parts from the whole, and you cannot admit to yourself that you are an infinitesimal speck of dust in an overwhelming Kosmos.

It seemed clear to those in the past that the universe circled the earth until they became enlightened to the reality of things. When one becomes aware of themselves above and beyond the outward appearances of the body then one finds themselves in all things.
"Split a piece of wood and I am there! Lift a stone and you will find me" ...-Gospel of Thomas

You fear living your life in vain.

This fear you resonate with is usually what prompts people to attack religion because they do not want to entertain the idea that living a life of compromise,( doing what they think they should do rather that what the really want to do) will lead to an empty life. Generally speaking there are countless individuals in retirement homes that wish they followed their heart rather than the sense of duty and pressure from the world and its judgments that push people away from their intuitive sense of reality and the dreams they have.

People cling to these beliefs so vigorously, and the harder they cling and more staunchly they defend their beliefs, the further down the cul-de-sac they go, not admitting to themselves and definitely not to anyone else that the road they're on leads to a dead end.

People cling to beliefs of all kinds. In fact they cling to the beliefs they have about their own experiences because they don't want to believe that someone could have a different experience than their own.

I don't follow beliefs nor do I allow my own experiences to define who I am or what God is. But the experiences I have had do not influence the Truth, only the surface ideas I may project on top of the truth as relative truths or truths that change with belief.

[trojan_libido]

I tend to believe in an animistic view of the world, where everything has the essence of life within. This is the closest approximation of my beliefs I can find, although all religions have valid ideas within them.

In some ways I'm actually on Joesus' side, but I dont like to confuse an already complex discussion with difficult to read comments.

The real mystery is how consciousness has came into being from the process which includes galaxy formations, plate tectonics and biological bodies.

[simon]

I am a bit of a pagan really I like to know where the big lumps of stuff (planets, suns, earth etc) are at. The knowledge that I get from that is an understanding of where i am at. The stories of how they got there never seem to change but the words used differ from person to person, I try to listen to the stuff that doesn't talk much as it seems to speak with a quiet clarity.

I'm sure if this jesus et alii fella were alive he would probably turn in his graves at the religious squabbling and funny hats.

[Joesus]

The real mystery is how consciousness has came into being from the process which includes galaxy formations, plate tectonics and biological bodies.

Consciousness is not a result of the physical, it is the other way around. Consciousness always has existed and always will exist. If you believe the essence of life is within then you have a head start on finding it and experiencing it. That is the part of life that is immortal and has a direct affect on the creation of the physical and its mortality.

The after life is also the before life, and is more of an absolute life.

[trojan_libido]

Thats just semantics. I know about the idea that all that exists in reality is pure consciousness, creating form etc. (Gods consciousness or similar). But really, your human consciousness is not the same as the ever present void your talking about, so therefore I believe my statement is valid. I'll rephrase:

The real mystery is how human consciousness has came into being from the process which includes galaxy formations, plate tectonics and biological bodies.

A biological being that is created from the ever present void, being built from millions of years of harmonic resonance with the Universe, then pondering its own existence and its creator is the biggest recursive process I've ever witnessed. To deny the recursion within our lives is just silly.

[Joesus]

An example:
Man has power to bring his mind into subjection to the principle of mathematics but he does not have the will to make the principle act. The principle acts of itself and is a single center of control within its sphere. Man may bring his will up to the point of the activity of the principle but from then on the principle is the motivating force and through this subjection of his will--to be more accurate--he finds the secret of his mathematical power.
The principal of the human will is that it is to be brought into subjectivity to some higher authority and thus man becomes the embodiment of it and is possessed of the power of this higher authority.
Man's weakness is brought about through making himself subject to that which in reality has no power (False beliefs in separation from the principal) and this should be proof to him of the immense power which is possible to him. He must now learn to apply this principle of his own will and recognize power as existing only in the one principle.

The relationship of the un-manifest with the manifest is something that has always been. Same as human consciousness in relationship to the sense orientation of the physical body is a natural function. Human consciousness didn't grow or develop out of the cosmos because of a random act or happening. It's closer to the idea that it was intentionally created.

[trojan_libido]

If you set a mathematical fractal pattern away to do its thing for 1 million years, is the final pattern a product of the fractals intention? I dont think it is. However I also don't think the outcome is a random event. This is kind of like the free will arguement, one that will never be solved. I see truth in both sides.

To be honest though, the religious ideas in the movie are actually one of the movies strongest points. Whether all facts are relevant or even accurate, the doctrine of religion is stripped bare and the origin is plain to see.

The 9/11 part is a better material to discuss. I find it strange no ones brought this up yet.

I was working for my first IT company when I heard the first plane had hit. I thought it was possibly an accident although I could not get near a TV to see it for myself. When I heard the second plane hit... well, its difficult to put into words what I felt. I knew the USA would go to war. I had doubts about the attack being put down to "terrorism". I was pretty sure there was some agenda being delivered, and this was in the few minutes after the second plane hit, not after I'd read any conspiracy theories about it.

The amount of media coverage world wide was astounding, and since then a huge proportion of politics has been leveraging the attacks to describe the threat we're all under. I personally thought the attack was down to the countries with oil retaliating because of western occupation of their lands. Saddam setting fire to all the oil wells hasn't been forgotten already has it?

This was posted on a world of warcraft forum by a guild friend:

"i live at Cyprus half of the island is been held by Turkey after they invaded the island at 1974
that was one more conspiracy its a big story behind it (divide and conquer been one,US bases another,UK bases another and that actually happend 2 big part of land are held by UK for bases(acting as a ''piece keepers'') but all they want(with the help of US is to monitor the middle east by the huge radars and antennas that have settled here)

i belive this is a small part of the big picture that this movie was. not to mention that Turkey acted based on an act that was signed by CYprus Greece UK and Turkey that the 3 countries were ''piece keepers'' of the island and they could act freely if they thought something was wrong on the island !!!(the stupides ever deal signed by a Nation leader) so some people from greece(the other ''piece keeper'')(helped by the US) organized a putsch on the goverment and Turkey invaded the island to ''protect'' the turkish-cypriot people that they were living on the island atm. and by protecting they took hold of the 33% of the island and still keep it and settle an army there.

so im having(living) a personal experience on the conspiracy-war-money-control-fear-terror subject which is more that enough eye opener.(i have to say that Cyprus has a major strategic place on the map since is in the middle of 3 continents europe-asia-africa which is the main reason for all these that are happening here, but we are lucky NOT to have oils...u know what could happened if we had oils...)
there's more to this story but ill need many pages to tell it all. "

His english isn't great, but obviously the issue is closer to home than to us in our "safe" western lives.

[Joesus]

If you set a mathematical fractal pattern away to do its thing for 1 million years, is the final pattern a product of the fractals intention?

If you take away your illusions of time then any final solution exists as soon as you pose the problem. The idea is that you can't imagine it without first finding where it is. The time it takes you to come into accord with the reality of the answer is the time you spend in your own domain trying to control something you have no real mastery of. The only way you can reach the solution is to surrender your own inadequacy to the point of supremacy which is the answer within the question. If you want to put it into your own terms of fractals you would be facing away from the source seeking to find where you came trying to imagine what that source is. In seeking the answer you move further outward comparing those other images that are away from the source rather than returning to where it all begins to find the common point of reference within the potential that all exists.

To be honest though, the religious ideas in the movie are actually one of the movies strongest points. Whether all facts are relevant or even accurate, the doctrine of religion is stripped bare and the origin is plain to see.

The movies strongest point of religion is that there are truths and there are lies and unless you know the supreme Truth any truth is going to be relative to the beliefs you entertain as truth.
When they discussed the dumbing up of humanity through the programmed negligence in the educational system it points to the mindless approach to the acceptance of the popular current authority for the support of all truth. If humans cannot discern illusions from Truth then they can easily be misled.
The idea that religion altogether is wrong or that Jesus never existed is not being offered as truth with any proof but as another Idea to stimulate one to find Truth rather than assuming truth by majority.
One would actually have to find a way to prove to themselves what is real rather than taking someones word for it without having their own experience.
In that respect what you seem to believe is plain to see is your interpretation of reality. You now seem to believe everyone can or should be able to see it as you do or will.
That is hardly the reality. The diversity of God will always produce a diverse way to see and worship because there will never be one way to see and understand God. The failure of the movie to come to this conclusion eventually leads to the statement at the end of the movie about the potential within Humans to rise above being a victim because of the power within ones own Self. This is the basis of all True religion and one can find that if they look in all of the major established religions in the world.

[cerebral]

supreme Truth? What's that?? Or rather, what are you peddling, and how much moolah does it cost?

[trojan_libido]

As the late Terrence McKenna said, we humans go through life like we're driving a car, using the rear view mirror. This is pretty much what we do instinctively, looking at past events and making our minds up about the course we'll take.

The idea that religion altogether is wrong or that Jesus never existed is not being offered as truth with any proof but as another Idea to stimulate one to find Truth rather than assuming truth by majority.

I don't really need an opinion on whether a real person named Jesus existed. I don't even need to say religions are wrong, quite the opposite. The questions about our reality and the process we like to make into deities were there long before Jesus. I believe religion has been diluted over time - a fairly straight forward statement. I also feel there can be no other conclusion than the sun, moon and stars were the source of all ancient religion. Doesnt that mean that all future beliefs were bound to be based on this?

I still feel like im stuck in a verbal whirlpool when you reply Joesus...

[Culture]

This fear you resonate with is usually what prompts people to attack religion because they do not want to entertain the idea that living a life of compromise,( doing what they think they should do rather that what the really want to do) will lead to an empty life.

I understand why you would see it that way, however many atheists are good living people.
Doing what you should is not a mind-set reserved for the religious. What is strange is that
a few (note: a few) religious are predominantly motivated by "you must not or else"
which is disturbing for naturally well intended people.

[trojan_libido]

Richard Dawkins goes into this quite a bit Culture. In the God Delusion he gives the argument that morality has nothing to do with religion and its laws. I dont actually like Dawkins, he has some strong arguments for things like memes, but he tears down religious institutes and leaves a hole. He fails to put anything in this hole despite him seeing a repeating pattern in memes and DNA and then he goes on to describe the path of culture as the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times).

Contradictory? I think so.

[Joesus]

As the late Terrence McKenna said, we humans go through life like we're driving a car, using the rear view mirror. This is pretty much what we do instinctively, looking at past events and making our minds up about the course we'll take.

This is fear and habit not necessarily natural to the being of humanity.

I also feel there can be no other conclusion than the sun, moon and stars were the source of all ancient religion.

I had a feeling once.

Doesnt that mean that all future beliefs were bound to be based on this?

Only if you believe this is the absolute truth.
But your belief of sun worship is based on the twisting of the relationship of all things with the absolute, into iconic representations of the absolute and its offspring. It is one idea of many not the original idea or greatest idea as you suppose.

Doing what you should is not a mind-set reserved for the religious.

I said something to that effect pointing to the idea that religion is not strictly about God but about human relationship with absolute belief. Like your whittling down all ideas to the supreme idea of sun worship. You seem to want to surrender all latent aspects of religion to this supreme source. That is a religious motive for you current thought and action.

supreme Truth? What's that?? Or rather, what are you peddling, and how much moolah does it cost?

It doesn't cost anything and it is what is left after you strip away all transitory beliefs.

[trojan_libido]

/yawn. Sorry Joesus, but I just like to believe in whats there, not what might have been or you would like to be. Circles everywhere i tell ye!

[Joesus]

C'est la vie

[cerebral]

supreme Truth? What's that?? Or rather, what are you peddling, and how much moolah does it cost?

It doesn't cost anything and it is what is left after you strip away all transitory beliefs.

Sounds kinda boring. Life is transitory and is in continuous flux. That's part of what makes it exciting. Your golden eternal sounds like incredible monotony. Just thinking about it makes me wanna.. *yawn*

[Joesus]

That's what its like for the ego. If you know nothing else then trying to imagine something else only strains the limited mind.

In the Upanishads, those ancient texts of Unity, there is an interesting passage describing the bliss of full human realization:
This is the inquiry concerning bliss.
Let there be a youth, a good youth, well read, prompt in action, steady in mind and strong in body. Let this whole earth be full of wealth for him. That is one human bliss.
That which is a hundred times the human bliss, that is one bliss of the human angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the human angels, that is one bliss of the divine angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

That which is a hundred times the bliss of the divine angels, that is one bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, that is one bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, that is one bliss of the gods by work, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods by work, that is one bliss of the gods, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods, that is one bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, that is one bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, that is one bliss of God the Creator, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of God the Creator, that is one bliss of God the Father, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

[trojan_libido]

Despite the poetic power of the Upanishads, why you spouting out scripture in a discussion?

[Joesus]

Why do you ask?

[Hey Hey]

I believe religion has been diluted over time

A bit like homeopathy then. And we all know what rubbish that is.

Actually not so much dilution, but adulteration.

[trojan_libido]

I believe theres more truth in religion than the dilution that takes place in homeopathy. Watching Dawkins "Enemies of Reason", the dilution is actually like 1:1 to the power of 30 and thats exactly like a single drop in the ocean. Aparently homeopathy dilute things so much that there is sometimes no molecules of the original "healing" substance. So basically they have little bottles all labelled differently, yet they all only have water in them. lol.

[Joesus]

Despite the poetic power of the Upanishads, why you spouting out scripture in a discussion?

I believe theres more truth in religion...

One need not look much further than what is inside ones self.

[Tone]

I find it hard to believe people here are still debating, when you cant have a hundred coincidences. the bible is clearly astrological symbology. this is something ive researched before this documentry came out.

you see a lot of debate here, but the evidence, no, clear proof rather, of the symbology is clear.

[Enki]

I find it hard to believe people here are still debating, when you cant have a hundred coincidences. the bible is clearly astrological symbology. this is something ive researched before this documentry came out.

you see a lot of debate here, but the evidence, no, clear proof rather, of the symbology is clear.

I think Tone that has direct connection with the idea of Fractal Universe Trojan was speaking about.

But I think that the matter is more complicated. If we consider existence of Parallel Worlds, then the Gates to those worlds have to somehow coincide with some astronomical superpositions and events as those perturb the space.

Besides that, let us imagine that time traveling in DMT state is possible, then a group of Priests from Old Egypt can replicate its cult not only in space but in time. E.g. during meditation a team of Old Egyptian Priests can convert into DMT elves and in out of body state travel in time and plant similar religions in future. The 25 December can be a jumping date when the jump in time is technically possible (at those days world Meets Dave ). The three magi can be considered not only as Orion belt, but as 3 Pyramids in Giza - the Portals which make the jump in time effectively possible.

So I think that the subject requires serious open international consideration. We must learn to protect our world from Invasions of the jumping Nostradamuses of the past. Or negotiate with the Gods.

If that is possible, then who knows, maybe a Nazi Ananerbe group can fight with the enemies from the past to the future leading wars in our times.

Zeitgeist movie opens new era for mankind. But its second part is nonsense in my opinion, only the first part about the Gods is interesting in true.

[code buttons]

Good point, Enki. LOL! By the way, you have such a way with words!

[Enki]

Good point, Enki. LOL! By the way, you have such a way with words!

Thank you Code. You see that integrity of our Matrix is seriously questioned by the Zeitgeist movie.

[Enki]

I find it hard to believe people here are still debating, when you cant have a hundred coincidences. the bible is clearly astrological symbology. this is something ive researched before this documentry came out.

you see a lot of debate here, but the evidence, no, clear proof rather, of the symbology is clear.

I think Tone that has direct connection with the idea of Fractal Universe Trojan was speaking about.

But I think that the matter is more complicated. If we consider existence of Parallel Worlds, then the Gates to those worlds have to somehow coincide with some astronomical superpositions and events as those perturb the space.

Besides that, let us imagine that time traveling in DMT state is possible, then a group of Priests from Old Egypt can replicate its cult not only in space but in time. E.g. during meditation a team of Old Egyptian Priests can convert into DMT elves and in out of body state travel in time and plant similar religions in future. The 25 December can be a jumping date when the jump in time is technically possible (at those days world Meets Dave ). The three magi can be considered not only as Orion belt, but as 3 Pyramids in Giza - the Portals which make the jump in time effectively possible.

So I think that the subject requires serious open international consideration. We must learn to protect our world from Invasions of the jumping Nostradamuses of the past. Or negotiate with the Gods.

If that is possible, then who knows, maybe a Nazi Ananerbe group can fight with the enemies from the past to the future leading wars in our times.

Zeitgeist movie opens new era for mankind. But its second part is nonsense in my opinion, only the first part about the Gods is interesting in true.

Have you noted that Human organizations up to now show ZERO public activity to discuss fantastic regularities addressed in the first chapter of the Movie?

Do we live in the world of ZOMBIES? Or there is something else ... Something untold.

Guys I shall return to Brain Meta by October. Do no forget me, I do really exist.

[mk-ultra]

Do we live in the world of ZOMBIES? Or there is something else ... Something untold.

Guys I shall return to Brain Meta by October. Do no forget me, I do really exist.

Great. Looking forward to three months without brain aneurysms from decoding your posts.

[Rick]

They're decodable?

[Enki]

Do we live in the world of ZOMBIES? Or there is something else ... Something untold.

Guys I shall return to Brain Meta by October. Do no forget me, I do really exist.

Great. Looking forward to three months without brain aneurysms from decoding your posts.

What a disrespect to my humble person indeed. Shame on you!

Possibly you failed to decode this: http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=101371
or this: http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=90301

As you noted several attached files have disappeared from Brain Meta, quite important files, e.g. those which were here http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?s=&sh...ndpost&p=101373

Dr. Jumba Jookiba from Another Far Away Country (aFac) added something new – one ring more to the collection and sent me it recently, and I humbly share it with Brain Meta community which still cannot manage to figure out how the attached images disappeared. I think it is an excellent addendum to the Zeitgeist Movie first chapter about 'Gods' and a nice addendum to the Chronicles of the Galactic Federation and Star Wars of Mr. George Walton (32GeoWa) Lucas.

Rings of the Power from ArmEn[k]ia, Ararat Valley (Airavata Valley http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airavata ), Yerevan City (Erawan city - Erawan is Thai name of Airavata - white elephant of Indra)

1. Dr. Hamsterviel & Archangel Michael
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrnd393_6dp3b4k94

2. Ring of Power of Third Reich of Dr. Karl Ernst Haushofer
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrnd393_4gtscx2dm

3. God Aton / NATO
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddrnd393_8cw394tc8

So dear Zombies, see you by October.