Does God exist?, Scientific proof? Options

[Hey Hey]

Few days ago I watched Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix and that great idea sparked in my mind.

Not surprising ... all religions support magic.

[Hey Hey]

Few days ago I watched Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix and that great idea sparked in my mind.

Not surprising ... all religions support magic.

By the way, Enki, welcome back. We missed you.

[Lindsay]

...If god is not a being for you, then why not just use the words that are already in the dictionary?... I think you might have an ulterior motive for this elusivity.

THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF GOD IS VERY LIMITED
HH, prompted by your question, I checked my World Book two-volume dictionary. As I suspected, I found it does refer to 'god' as "a being thought of as superior to nature and considered worthy of worship; b. a male god. c. an image of a god; idol. 2. a person or a thing worshipped like a god; person intensely admired and respected [Old English god]

God
Then it refers to God as 1. the maker and ruler of the universe; the one Supreme Being...the God of justice, the God of mercy. [Old English god ]

As I suspected, this definition, obviously contributed by a traditional monotheist, or perhaps an atheist, defines what I consider is a very limited god-concept. Because it has its roots in patriarchy, it is only one notch beyond poly-theism and henotheism. It is based on creating a mental idol, which is one that is so easy to deny.

UNITHEISM/PANENTHEISM
I am surprised that the editors overlooked the Jewish way of writing the god-concept, G-d--which definitely does NOT refer to an objective person, one with a subjective mind separate and apart from creation. This concept is not easily denied.

G-d, or GØD (the symbol I like), includes the whole of creation, visible and invisible, total, universal and all-encompassing and eternal, now. How would one go about rejecting ALL creation, without removing oneself from the equation?
And why would anyone want to do it?
Is the darkness of eternal death stronger than than of eternal life?
These are questions about which, IMO, we need to dialogue?

I am thankful that dictionaries are not fixed documents, but organic in nature. Future dictionaries, IMHO, in addition to the words we use now, will need to add words to express a non-theistic concept of god, like that expressed in buddhism, which, like Tesla, conceives of GOD as being without physical properties, while being the source of what we call 'property'--the material universe as a manifestation.

TESLA'S SUGGESTION
Interestingly, Tesla suggested that Judaeo /Christianity and Buddhism could come together and form a very good and non-dogmatic philosophy of life--open to agnostics--on which to build the future. To the mix I would add any moral, ethical and love-advocating religion. I would also include the moderate and suffi-like kind of Islam and other eastern religions. Avoiding cynicism, fatalism, determinism and judgmentalism, great unity can be found in the love of variety.

WHAT OF THE FUTURE?
It seems to me that many theists and atheists have this in common: They both talk about a God who, IMO, seems to be very limited. Just look at the evil and sin, pain and suffering, He allows to go and on without redress in this world. Theists have a blind faith in Him the He will get around to redressing things, eventually.

Atheists, addressing the god-concept of theism, have a blind faith there is no Him. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

Until theists and atheists come up with firm evidence for what they believe to be true, I choose go with what numerous process-theologians and philosophers are saying about G-d, GØD. I call process-theologians unitheists/panentheists. I think of thinkers like Edison, Tesla, Einstein, Alfred North Whitehead, Anthony Flew and scores of other scientists. I am sure there is vast list of professional and lay theologians who think along such lines.
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BTW, I wonder what were the first words in the first dictionary? Were they ah, bah, da, abba, grrrrrrr, ha, ma, pa, ugh, aaarrghhh, grunt, mmmmmm, hey, and eh? and the like.
I am sure that the second dictionary added new words: perhaps like mama, papa, gramma and grandpa, la la la, and ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. The rest is history. New concepts need new words, eh? New words are created by persons. I am a person who creates new words, therefore, I am.

[Hey Hey]

G-d, or G�D (the symbol I like), includes the whole of creation, visible and invisible, total, universal and all-encompassing and eternal, now.

Sort of ... the universe. (Just in case you're wondering, eternal implies time. And rather than suggesting something before or after, that begins and ends with the universe too.)

[Enki]

So History is a science.

Next, you'll be telling me that religion is a science.

Religion is a system of knowledge of worshiping some God based on some ineffable and effable knowledge acquired by different people supposedly from a God; those knowledge incorporate rituals of worshiping which technical purposes generally unknown to common people and possibly to the top clerics as well.

[Enki]

Few days ago I watched Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix and that great idea sparked in my mind.

Not surprising ... all religions support magic.

There is no religion and there is no magic, all is reality based on physics.

We just have little knowledge in the so called cybernetic physics.

When the true nature of the structure of the matter will be experimentally disclosed, then science will merge with magic and religion with politics for dealing with the so called parallel worlds.

[Enki]

By the way, Enki, welcome back. We missed you.

Thank you Hey Hey, I was missing you all as well.

Hope I will not disappear again.

[Enki]

TESLA'S SUGGESTION
Interestingly, Tesla suggested that Judaeo /Christianity and Buddhism could come together and form a very good and non-dogmatic philosophy of life--open to agnostics--on which to build the future. To the mix I would add any moral, ethical and love-advocating religion. I would also include the moderate and suffi-like kind of Islam and other eastern religions. Avoiding cynicism, fatalism, determinism and judgmentalism, great unity can be found in the love of variety.

To bring them together Mr. Lindsay one should have

1. Devine revelation,
2. New knowledge imparted by God to men which can make their life considerably better,
3. Alive God living among men (speaking Herald) who can speak by TV and answer to questions. Definitely the God should have Devine attributes.

If you miss these three points the Tesla’s suggestion is impossible to realize.

But if one of the Gods decides to speak on TV, then nobody will be able to manipulate Calypso, and absence of possibility to manipulate Calypso is a thing the brotherhood of the Free Pirates cannot stand with due to exasperated vanity and fear to loose the power. Right?

So, the phase transition is possible only at presence of eminent threat, when the brotherhood will have no choice (Thanks to Lord Beckett). E.g. when some triggering in the Infernal world will result in Invasion of some creatures to our world e.g. during the REM sleep of many people. I mean when some guys will try to Escape from the Prison (e.g. from the analog of the Al’Catraz) via REM sleep.

And in such a morbid situation only the Wisdom not the Golden Compass may guide trough the Dark Materials.

You see the Hollywood ontology helps by few words explain Ineffable things Mr. Lindsay.

But in any way, I am sure, that the Catholic Church will have its finger in the pie of the Pirates of Caribbean.

Because the ways of Tom Bombadil are unknown.

[code buttons]

TESLA'S SUGGESTION
Interestingly, Tesla suggested that Judaeo /Christianity and Buddhism could come together and form a very good and non-dogmatic philosophy of life--open to agnostics--on which to build the future. To the mix I would add any moral, ethical and love-advocating religion. I would also include the moderate and suffi-like kind of Islam and other eastern religions. Avoiding cynicism, fatalism, determinism and judgmentalism, great unity can be found in the love of variety.

To bring them together Mr. Lindsay one should have

1. Devine revelation,
2. New knowledge imparted by God to men which can make their life considerably better,
3. Alive God living among men (speaking Herald) who can speak by TV and answer to questions. Definitely the God should have Devine attributes.

If you miss these three points the Tesla’s suggestion is impossible to realize.

But if one of the Gods decides to speak on TV, then nobody will be able to manipulate Calypso, and absence of possibility to manipulate Calypso is a thing the brotherhood of the Free Pirates cannot stand with due to exasperated vanity and fear to loose the power. Right?

So, the phase transition is possible only at presence of eminent threat, when the brotherhood will have no choice (Thanks to Lord Beckett). E.g. when some triggering in the Infernal world will result in Invasion of some creatures to our world e.g. during the REM sleep of many people. I mean when some guys will try to Escape from the Prison (e.g. from the analog of the Al’Catraz) via REM sleep.

And in such a morbid situation only the Wisdom not the Golden Compass may guide trough the Dark Materials.

You see the Hollywood ontology helps by few words explain Ineffable things Mr. Lindsay.

But in any way, I am sure, that the Catholic Church will have its finger in the pie of the Pirates of Caribbean.

Because the ways of Tom Bombadil are unknown.

LMAO!!!

[Lindsay]

code buttons, so your are LYAO.

With joy? Or ridicule?

Either way, you are entertaining yourSELF. Have fun!!!!

[Enki]

Mr. Lindsay, remember good humor can crack any spell.

[Enki]

Btw, I do really wonder why anybody do not appreciate these Brainish funny examples I brought along?
I think they are quite cute, is not it?

Looks like the Good Lord returns. I think Gnostics must get ready to surrender. Hahahahahahha!

There are rumors that the Lord is going to rebuild the Solomon Temple soon. Thanks to good people Sir Isaac Newton’s drawings recently emerged in the Hebrew University.

Ho Ho Ho! Looks things are changing.

Also a kind or benevolent God would certainly not create an entire realm devoted to making people suffer (hell).

It may turn so that humans are not well aware about true structure of the Universe up to now, it may turn so that eventually with development of science such category as Hell will be defined scientifically.

In addition to those contradictions a God who interacts with humanity would leave a mark.

So he/she probably did so. Please consider the following very minor linguistic examples of the marks you speak about:

A) Some religious

Buddah \,\ Huddah,
Christ \,\ Krishna,
Jesus \,\ Zeus,
Allah \,\ MagdAllah,

Minor Political makrs related with destruction of the Third Reich and USSR, in case of Hitler due to inappropriate usage of God's name variation and in case of Andropov just a cybernetic coincidence: when even two atheists Andropov and Gor_bachev meet things may happen:

E(H)VA - E(Hitler)VA Brown [Alchemical marriage of Her Hitler and Eva Brown for getting power]
Y(G)VA - Yuri (Gor-bachev) Vladimirovich Andropov [Head of KGB]

C) Funny simple example from English

The English verb "to Have" is an anagram of EHVA

And there are quite many other marks. So please do not think that the Great Old Democrat is a part of the mythology. As far as people learned form "Dogma" movie He/She dislikes when He/She is considered as mythology.

Best regards,
Enki

PS: Funny is not it?

[Enki]

I think Rick should reconsider his Atheistic philosophy.

Hardly the The Great Wave off Kanagawa painted by Hokusai and looking like transposed big and small Ararat mountains (just like Jesus and the other apostle on the Leonardo’s Last Supper) can be stopped.

When great wave collects its power just like 1/f noise at low frequencies nobody and nothing can stop it.

I am VERY sorry for allegoric style of data representation in this thread.

[Hey Hey]

I think Rick should reconsider his Atheistic philosophy.

Hopefully, no pigs will be flying in California.

[Rick]

It takes a long time for Hell to thaw. It has to freeze over first.

[Enki]

I think Rick should reconsider his Atheistic philosophy.

Hopefully, no pigs will be flying in California.

No, only chikens.

[Enki]

It takes a long time for Hell to thaw. It has to freeze over first.

Really?

[Enki]

Ohhhh, how boring.

How do you like flooding in Oxford gentlemen?
Global warming I guess.

a) We definitely must shift to fuel cells,
Preserve environment, support nature,
c) Improve moral behavior of people,
d) Try to be spiritually pure etc,
e) Respect each other,
f) Do not teach children sorcery,
g) Help each other to become wise and good,
h) Do not undermine the fact of God's existence and so on.

OK?

Otherwise, as it seems to me, the pigs eventually will fly not only over California but over Yorkshire, Essex and Sussex.

So may the Force & the Wisdom stay with you my dear friends from the BrainMeta.

!

[Culture]

Ohhhh, how boring.

How do you like flooding in Oxford gentlemen?
Global warming I guess.

a) We definitely must shift to fuel cells,
Preserve environment, support nature,
c) Improve moral behavior of people,
d) Try to be spiritually pure etc,
e) Respect each other,
f) Do not teach children sorcery,
g) Help each other to become wise and good,
h) Do not undermine the fact of God's existence and so on.

OK?

Otherwise, as it seems to me, the pigs eventually will fly not only over California but over Yorkshire, Essex and Sussex.

So may the Force & the Wisdom stay with you my dear friends from the BrainMeta.

!

Humorous yes, informative no. :-)
The term is 'climate change'. Global warming is a subset condition not
entirely supported by evidence or scientific models. It's possible that
we're in a warming cycle, but it's also evident we're just coming out of a
relatively cool 1000 years according to historical data.

The areas affected by changes are not GLOBAL but very local and there are
many other factors contributing to the changes that have nothing at all to
so with global warming but lots to do with human infrastructure provision
and a basic ignorance of the consequences of some ideas (think really really
big man made dams on rivers fed by monsoon rains ...)

More people are being killed or seriously affected by other people, cars,
plane accidents and 'lost in the system' healthcare than global warming.
People are affected by climate change all the time. And if you want to build
you house on a river that has flood cycles, it's pure Darwinism at play.

[Enki]

Ohhhh, how boring.

How do you like flooding in Oxford gentlemen?
Global warming I guess.

a) We definitely must shift to fuel cells,
Preserve environment, support nature,
c) Improve moral behavior of people,
d) Try to be spiritually pure etc,
e) Respect each other,
f) Do not teach children sorcery,
g) Help each other to become wise and good,
h) Do not undermine the fact of God's existence and so on.

OK?

Otherwise, as it seems to me, the pigs eventually will fly not only over California but over Yorkshire, Essex and Sussex.

So may the Force & the Wisdom stay with you my dear friends from the BrainMeta.

!

Humorous yes, informative no. :-)
The term is 'climate change'. Global warming is a subset condition not
entirely supported by evidence or scientific models. It's possible that
we're in a warming cycle, but it's also evident we're just coming out of a
relatively cool 1000 years according to historical data.

The areas affected by changes are not GLOBAL but very local and there are
many other factors contributing to the changes that have nothing at all to
so with global warming but lots to do with human infrastructure provision
and a basic ignorance of the consequences of some ideas (think really really
big man made dams on rivers fed by monsoon rains ...)

More people are being killed or seriously affected by other people, cars,
plane accidents and 'lost in the system' healthcare than global warming.
People are affected by climate change all the time. And if you want to build
you house on a river that has flood cycles, it's pure Darwinism at play.

Well it is a matter of taste.
Besides I think it is extremely informative.

Thank you for your interesting ideas about the Global warming.

[code buttons]

code buttons, so your are LYAO.

With joy? Or ridicule?

Either way, you are entertaining yourSELF. Have fun!!!!

At the form with which the content is presented. Enki has just the most entertaining and colorful ways of presenting his posts. They are a joy to read. He has a very particular sense of humor which almost always seems to work.

[code buttons]

More people are being killed or seriously affected by other people, cars,
plane accidents and 'lost in the system' healthcare than global warming.
People are affected by climate change all the time. And if you want to build
you house on a river that has flood cycles, it's pure Darwinism at play.

In a world of powerful goverments (such as the U.S. and China) giving global conglomerates a green light on environment polution in the name of jobs, I find this statement quite irresponsible on your part, Culture. Just because not enough people are being killed by man made enviromental calamities yet, we can't just continue alone the present lines of disregard for the consequences of bad environmental policies by some governments and institutions.

[Lindsay]

Getting back on topic, let us talk about God: I agree with Nikola Tesla: "God, has no properties."--like Ø. But is Ø non existant?

Therefore, GØD, IMHO, is total existence, not one who exists as separate and apart from existence.

For scientific proof, use your senses!

[Hey Hey]

Getting back on topic, let us talk about God: I agree with Nikola Tesla: "God, has no properties."--like Ø. But is Ø non existant?

Therefore, GØD, IMHO, is total existence, not one who exists as separate and apart from existence.

So why not carry on talking about code's point? Otherwise you will have to separate politics from god (not part of "total existence"). Can't have it all ways.

[Enki]

Getting back on topic, let us talk about God: I agree with Nikola Tesla: "God, has no properties."--like Ø. But is Ø non existant?

Therefore, GØD, IMHO, is total existence, not one who exists as separate and apart from existence.

For scientific proof, use your senses!

OK, lets return to the topic Mr. Lindsay.

1. According to Bible God has character. He says to Moses that he is envious God.
So the God himself mentions one of his Properties.

So the God you speak about – the God having no properties, cannot be considered as God of Israel, because the God of Israel himself mentions that he has Properties.

Besides that Property, he also has certain name which he told to Moses.

2. For scientific proof human senses are not valid because they are not standardized measurement equipmentation.

Only science in close cooperation with the churches of the world can uncover the true nature of the God.

I think the key lies in random fluctuations.

[Enki]

Getting back on topic, let us talk about God: I agree with Nikola Tesla: "God, has no properties."--like Ø. But is Ø non existant?

Therefore, GØD, IMHO, is total existence, not one who exists as separate and apart from existence.

So why not carry on talking about code's point? Otherwise you will have to separate politics from god (not part of "total existence"). Can't have it all ways.

Very good question Hey Hey. I am sure he will not provide certain answer... Guess why.

[Joesus]

1. According to Bible God has character. He says to Moses that he is envious God.
So the God himself mentions one of his Properties.

Never happened.

2. For scientific proof human senses are not valid because they are not standardized measurement equipmentation.

Nor do they interpret Gods voice with any accuracy or translate reality into words that have any real meaning.

[Enki]

So, as envious creature he dislikes very much somebody saying that he does not exist or that he is something all within and diffusive bushtit like that.

So he is very obstinate noisy guy and when he gets angry the pigs start to fly in the air, empires crush, Dow index fluctuates, things start to happen...

[Joesus]

Scientific proof?

Or still kidding around...

[Enki]

Scientific proof?

Or still kidding around...

Find funding for scientific research and the quest will be started.