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> Healing the Whole Person--Mind (Psyche) and Body (Soma) Using the Power of the Spirit (Pneuma), --The Integrative Approach to Total Health, At Our Service
Lindsay
post Mar 28, 2007, 11:41 AM
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God
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Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1724
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
From: Markham (Thornhill), part of the greater Toronto area, the GTA, just north of Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 4838



RE-DISCOVERING THE PHILOSOPHY OF PNEUMATOLOGY IN 1964
=======================================================
Looking back, it seems to me that I took the first step in my journey of what I later discovered was called the philosophy of pneumatology when I came to my own self-consciousness. That is, when I came to the discovery of my personal spirit (pneuma); when I became aware of being aware, and that I was an individual apart from my parents, my siblings and others. Since then I have been very curious about what it means to be a human being.

[THE FOLLOWING IS A PERSONAL STORY. Those who wish to get to the beginning of the serious search may skip the following eight or nine paragraphs.]

Born in January, 1930, I was number seven of eight. There were four boys--the oldest born in 1906--and two girls older than me. My next oldest brother was ten years older than I. The last in the family was my sister who was one year and a half year than I was. Our mother was over 47 when she was born.

It was right at the beginning of what was later described as "the dirty thirties" and the Great Depression. People with jobs, especially those which paid them 12 to 15 dollars a week, considered themselves lucky. For those without work there was dirt, hunger, sadness and the shame of being called a bum. Eventually millions, here and through out the industrialized world, were without work. What was the governments to do with millions of bums. And can you imagine it the following? Being homeless, in many areas, was a considered a crime. It was called vagrancy. In addition, anyone who protested such awful conditions could be branded a dangerous subversive, a criminal, and put in jail.

THE KINGS WERE AMONG THE LUCKY ONES
=======================================
If you can call living in third-world conditions lucky, one of the lucky families in the 1930's was the Kings. Until 1938 we lived in a company-owned house--one half of a gray-shingled duplex, which we rented from to the iron-ore mining company (DOSCO--Dominion Iron, Steel and Coal Company). It had very few of the things we think of as a good standard of living, in the modern world. There was no central heating, no insulation and no in-door bathroom. This meant that until someone got up and put a fire in the coal-burning kitchen stove there was no warm water to wash. On very cold winter days this meant that, more often than not, water in the barrel was frozen. One good thing: There was no need for refrigerators. To provide for food, we tried to grow enough potatoes, cabbages and turnips in the summer, which we kept in a root cellar. Our root cellar was in a sod-covered pit we dug in the yard near the house.

We also kept a pig, or two, hens (for the eggs) and goats. It still amazes me how they survived the cold winters and never complained. At the time it always bothered me when it came time to slaughter any of the animals, including the young hens.

No family at that time, especially when the mines were down, could survive well without fishing and hunting. Unlike my older brothers, I was not a hunter and did not like guns. However, I did accompany them and helped with the boat. My chores included cleaning the fish, birds and the rabbits.

By the way, the "house" we rented had very little attic-space. There was no basement and we had to get our water from a common well, which, by the way, was located in middle of the dirt road. The ran by our door on what was called Kings Hill. It ran through the community unofficially known as Old Number One. Water had to be dipped from the well in a bucket and carried in buckets to fill the water barrel, as needed. By the way, sometimes a dead cat, or a dog, would be found in the well.

Old Number One got its name because it was not far away from the first mine--a surface mine--on the northwest side of Bell Island http://www.bellisland.net

Generally speaking, iron-ore mining began in 1895. Mine numbers 2, 3--which later became the main mine, went for three miles at a 30 degree angle under the ocean on the north side of the island. Later, mines 4,5 & 6 went underground, also, and later joined the main mine, #3. Ironically, during the thirties, there was at least half-time employment on Bell Island, thanks to Hitler. Germany, getting ready for war, bought much of our ore. In 1942, German submarines, probably made from some of the same ore we sold them, came to Bell Island, twice, and sank four ore carriers in our harbour and blew up one of our piers. Sixty nine young merchant seamen lost their lives. This took place a short distance from our newly self-built house, on the front. I still remember hearing the explosions. Later, I saw some of the bodies hauled ashore. I was 12.

The last job my father had--the one during which he lost an eye--was as foreman of the picking belt at #6. Except for the fact that he made a bit more money, it was a cold, especially in winter, dusty and dirty job--ten hours a day and six days a week. His compensation for the loss of the eye was $80.00. And no pension, when he could no longer work!

The opportunity for work attracted a lot of people from all over Newfoundland, including people from other parts of the world . In my day there were over 10,000 people on the island--about three-miles wide and eight-miles long. It even had two movie theatres. Movies played a great role in my early education and in inspiring me to get more of it.

By the way, the Kings, and some others on the island, had one luxury not available in the out ports not far from us: The mining company made electricity available, at a price. A bit better-off neighbour and relative--he was an electrician--even had a telephone. At Christmas, they always had a big Christmas tree, with lights. I remember: electric wires were exposed on the walls and ceilings, from which hung single and bare light bulbs.

THE MIRACLE OF RADIO
====================
In 1936 we got our first table-model-Marconi radio, which cost $100.00. At the time, this was over one ... maybe up to two ... months pay for the average labourer. For me, the radio opened up a magical world filled with music, news and stories, sports events and the voices of very entertaining and interesting people from as far away as St. John's, Boston and New York--where I later found out we had relatives. Looking back, it seems to me I must have had a sense of history. I remember making mental note: I will remember this first program I heard on radio. It was a program of Stephen Foster songs, including, "My Old Kentucky Home."

The Hutchings (Uncle Will and ?, Max and Gerald), our neighbours, owned a car. We did not. Nor did we own a horse, like they did. Because we did not live within walking distance of our church and the church-operated school, what a treat it was (in 1936) to me when by radio, we were able to hear a church service, and other programs, from St. John's on Sundays and other days. Even at a young age I found the Bible reading, stories from the Bible, even the preaching, interesting. I could hardly wait to get old enough to be able to read the the Bible--one of the few books we had.

By the way, my parents could read and write. My father, a carpenter, had a set of Audel's books on carpentry. Before I came along he spent sometime working, as a carpenter, in Boston--in the Navy Yards. My older brothers were all good carpenters. In 1937, supervised by our father, we all began the project of build a new house of our own on The Front, facing Portugal Cove--nine miles from downtown St. John's. The Cove was on the south east shore of Conception Bay.

We also lived too far away for me to get to the church-run-four-room school, which was also at the front of the Island. But, fortunately, I did have the opportunity to attend what was called primer. It was conducted by a Mrs. Lodge, in the front room of her home--a place for the children in the Old Number One area to learn how to read and write. I think it cost 10 cents a day and ran from 9 AM to noon. We sat on pine boxes, which had been used to import explosives (dynamite) used in the mines. The desks were made of similar material. As I recall, I went to that school for two years (1936-1937). There I learned to read and write and began to become aware that there was a big world out there to be discovered. Because of this, when, in the summer of 1938 our family moved--using a horse and cart--from Old Number One to what was called The Front of the island, I entered grade one at the church-run school, I had a head start. In summary I Learning how to read; my listening to the radio and seeing the movies .

THE BEGINNING OF MY SERIOUS SEARCH FOR PNEUMATOLOGY
======================================================
My search for pneumatology began in earnest when, after a year working in a grocery story and in the mines, I became a freshman and a theological student at www.mta.ca in 1947.

Keep in mind that in my last two years in high school, though I did appreciate the role the church played in providing schools, youth programs, summer camping, hospitals and other forms of welfare, I had become very interested in the sciences. This made me very skeptical and agnostic, theologically speaking, about the supernatural claims of religion. Even then I wanted a rational approach to faith and the realm we call spiritual.

At this point, I was fortunate that I got good advice which my minister, Scout leader and mentor. He suggested: "Why don't you take a broad-spectrum BA, with a mixture of science and arts? This will give you the opportunity to explore the arts and sciences. This will be a good grounding for teaching, law, medicine, other sciences, or preaching." It was sound advice.

More good fortune and advice came my way when I arrived at university. There I met the newly-appointed faculty adviser, the Rev. Arthur Ebbutt. In the process of completing his doctorate in theology, he was also in charge of the about sixty, or more, theological students. I found him to be a theologian with a very rational and open kind of mind. "When you come into my classes" he was fond of saying, "I do not want you to leave your brains where you hang your hat." This opened, for me, the opportunity to take a scientific attitude and approach to all religious studies.

From then on I read everything I could find on psychology, philosophy, religion and the total health of body, mind and spirit. My adviser pointed out, frequently, that Jesus told his followers, not just to preach, but to teach and heal.

This is the pattern--the rational integration of philosophy, psychology and theology, and their role in helping us have total health--which I followed all through university and for all my forty years of pastoral ministry--and on into what I now call my re-directment.

I was ordained in June 1953: to the ministry of "preaching, teaching and the cure of souls". My first appointment was to be the first minister at Happy Valley, Goosebay, Labrador. It was then a squatter's town of about 115 families, who lived about seven miles from the Goose Bay American and Canadian Airbase. Fifty were United Church, twenty five were Anglicans, twenty five were Moravians and fifteen were Pentecostals. Quite an adventure-filled story, about which I will not go into details here, except to say: In the community there was one United Church school, which served all denominations. As the new minister, I was automatically chair of the local school committee. There was also a Grenfell Mission Nursing Station. As if to fit in with my interest in health, Jean and I lived right next door to it. We had a very good and working relationship with the two nurses who did excellent work. One of my jobs was to operate and maintain the four horsepower diesel engine, which provided electricity for the hospital. In a barter trade we got to have lights and radio. Jean, with her teaching experience, and the growing number of children moving into the community, readily obtained work as a teacher.

To make a long story short, the rich experience of that year inspired me to do some post graduate studies.

1953-1954 WAS, FOR ME A PIVOTAL YEAR
==================================
Amazingly, because of my work I had no difficulty getting a two-year scholarship, which covered all fees, to Boston University right across the Charles River from Harvard and MIT. There, under the guidance of faculty from Boston University, Harvard and Union Theological Seminary, NY. I pursued a course of studies based on the general theme: THE HISTORY OF IDEAS--physically, mentally and spiritual. I wanted to know: How come we believe what we believe and behave as we do? It was time well spent. What I learned led me to take a definite and scientific approach to spirituality and religion, including the integration of philosophy, psychology and theology.This laid the foundation for the rest of my ministry which I devoted much of my time advocating the practical value of the holistic approach to physical, mental and spiritual health.

I was Influenced by my studies of the writings of Harry Emerson Fosdick, Norman Vincent Peale (The Power of Positive Thinking, 1952) Leslie D. Weatherhead (Psychology, Religion and Healing), the writings of the Harvard psychologist, William James, the Swiss psychiatrist, Carl Jung and others.

This inspired me to preach several series of sermons on psychology, religion and the healing. I also talked about the healing ministry of Jesus and his influence on the churches down through the ages. As a result of this, more and more people began to come and ask if they could see me. Basically, what I did was teach people how to stop destroying themselves and start healing themselves. Many, who had been helped, gave me books which had influenced and helped them.

Then the challenge came close to home. In 1963, after having had a series of lung problems, which started when she was two, our daughter Catherine--about seven and one half--developed a life-threating lung condition. Using what I now call pneumatherapy, I helped her heal herself, from within.

1963-1964 WAS, FOR ME, ANOTHER PIVOTAL YEAR
==========================================
Now come with me to 1964. In the spring of that year my daughter was on the road to complete recovery from a deadly lung condition. With the help of a mentor and the encouragement of our family doctor I used what my mentor called the "pastoral use of hypnotic technique". I now it call it pneumatherapy.

Looking back, l repeat: all I did was encourage my daughter to take personal, or spiritual, responsibility for what was going on in her own mind and body. Rapidly, she became a healthy child and was never bed-ridden again. Today, she is 53, an accomplished artist who lives with her artist husband here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqbfiejLdM

At first, several things: my Biblical and theological training; the influence of the mentor who taught me the pastoral use of hypnosis, and a book I read, Prayer Can Change Your Life (1957)--by a spiritual-minded psychologist, William R. Parker and writer, Elaine St. Johns--influenced me to call what I was doing, PRAYER THERAPY. Encouraged by several members of my church, I put together a series of lectures under this title.

PNEUMATOLOGY
==============
The term 'pneumatology' came later. Putting spirit (pneuma) first, I began to give a series of of lectures on the relationship of psychology, religion and healing and to explore how of faith, hope and love on affect the human but animal-like mind (psyche) and body (soma).

In keeping with my explorations at the time, I felt the need to create a new word specifically related to the study of matters having to do with the human spirit. Thus, based on my limited knowledge of ancient and New Testament Greek, I concocted the word 'pneumatology' to which I gave the meaning: the study of the spirit.

At the time I had no idea that this word was already in the larger dictionaries. Shortly thereafter, I found it in World Book Dictionary, which defines it as a branch of theology having to do with doctrines about the Holy Spirit and about spiritual beings. WBD also states that in the 1600's it was considered a branch of metaphysics.

PANENTHEISM, HOLOTHEISM AND UNITHEISM
======================================
Inspired by idea of pneumatology, over the last decade or so I have been working on an approach to theology which I like to call holo-unitheism. Instead of using the noun, God, I now choose to use any one of the following acronyms: GOD, GØD, or G0D--note the zero '0'

Recently, a poster, Cate, in wondercafe.ca asked me:
What does that acronym stand for?

Cate, the G--and this is just my opinion--stands for the actual and potential Good in all things--physical, mental and spiritual.

Ø, in my opinion, stands for the Order of things as explored by the sciences. In a non-science sense, one could just use O, 0.

Interestingly, the symbol came to my mind in 2005, before I was told by a fellow poster in a science forum that it is a mathematical symbol called the null.

Then I checked out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_symbols

I found: ∅ means the set with no elements. { } means the same thing. I assume it is like the point in calculus; it has no dimensions.

Interestingly, the great inventor Nicola Tesla, who wrote about religion, said, "God has no properties." Do a google search and you will find that Tesla was a very spiritually-minded scientist who, with his invention of AC electricity, gave us the technology as to how to put hydro power to practical use. He was the son of an Orthodox priest, and also said that Christianity and Buddhism, put together, would make for the best philosophy of religion.

D, stands for all that we find Desirable, the beautiful, the true and the well-designed.

When push comes to shove, do not all humane people, even if they call themselves atheists, want a universe filled with Goodness, Order and that which is Desirable?

In my opinion, GOD, GØD, or G0D represents too large a hypothesis, or concept, to be contained in even a proper noun. For me, it avoids the danger of athropomorphism--the tendency to create a god in our own image.

BTW, when I think of GØD as the one idea behind all that is, I can think as a theist; when I think of GØD as the point or unit of all things, I think as a unitheist; when I think of GØD as the whole, which contains and interpenetrates all things, I think as a holotheist. I suppose that, guided by the love principle, it is possible to see GØD in all things: as do the polytheists. After all, as Bible scholars tell us: Moses was actually a henotheist--My God (YAHWEH) can beat up on your god.

REALITY, EXCEPT IN THE ABSOLUTE SENSE OF THE WORD, IS NOT JUST ONE THING, IT IS A COMPLEX

I like the theory--and I am not sure whose it is--which says that every single living creature, with any level of consciousness, including human beings, animals and insects are constantly creating holograms of what they perceive reality to be. And, especially for human beings, it can happen moment by moment. Even people who live together in families, or as husband and wife, do not perceive of things--physical, mental or spiritual--in exactly the same way. Perhaps we are incapable to perceiving the absolute--GØD. I find that the process philosophy and theology of Alfred North Whitehead--do a google search on this name--is very helpful here in understanding the idea that we--including what we call God--are all in the process of becoming, ad infinitum.

We are constantly creating the hologram of the reality we need: If we need a father it is easy to think of a god as a loving heavenly father, especially if we were raised by one who was loving. But what if father was a drunk who beat his family, what then?

Perhaps there are those of us who need a mother, a child, a lover, or just a friend. This why I feel it is so important for us to be careful not to impose our holograms on others. Some of us want a god who lords it over us; one who judges us and forgives our sins when we repent and bow before him; some make things, power, property, fame and wealth into gods, and some of us even makes ourselves into a god who has all the answers, even when we are not sure what they are.

Some very creative people are so good at hologram thinking that we think of them as having illusions and being deluded, even insane. They think of themselves as philosophers, scientists, artists, geniuses, or even clergy mediators of the power and love of God.

WHAT ABOUT THE SO-CALLED FAITH-HEALERS?
===================================================
Please do not confuse the approach which I took, and still take, with that of people like the so-called
faith-healers like: Oral Roberts, Catherine Kuhlman, Benny Hinn, Peter Youngren and the like. I include those who believe in what is called Christian Science.

I know, through experience, that beliefs and faith can have a powerful effect on total health. However, I have never been, was not, and am not, a fan of blind faith. As a columnist for a paper over a number of years, I took the opportunity to investigate, close up, the claims, and results of quite a number of "faith" healers.

ONE SO-CALLED FAITH-HEALER EVEN CLAIMED: "GOD WILL FILL TEETH, WITH GOLD."
==========================================================================
One so-called faith healer I investigated, about whom I have information in my file under the heading, Blind Faith, said that he now worked exclusively on dental problems. He even claimed that, "God will replace the amalgam fillings in teeth with gold fillings. Sometimes God will even replace missing teeth."

The news media of course, always very interested in the bizarre, gave this story all kinds of a laced-with-skepticism kind of coverage. Naturally, it attracted the curious, along with the faithful.

One evening--count me as a curious and an open-minded skeptic--I attended one of his demonstrations in Toronto. It was sponsored by a group who rented the space in the church of which I was actually then the minister. Following the "healing" service and demonstration, I interviewed one who was told, by the "healer": "You now have all gold fillings in your teeth, not the amalgams with which you came."

Getting her aside, I asked her: "Do you really believe what you were told?" Obviously a "believer" she invited me to look, for myself.

I replied: "The lighting here is not conducive for me to verify your claim, now. So here is what I suggest:

"Will you please check with your dentist?"

She agreed to do so.

"Ask him" I said, "if your amalgams have turned to gold."

"Here is my personal phone number. I am the minister of this church, so you can even call me at the office. I not only write a column for the paper here, I know the religion editors of the major Toronto news papers. If we can come up with the evidence--I am a strong believer in concrete evidence--that you now have gold and not amalgam fillings, I will do all that I can to get this story out, far and wide."

Here is my report: I heard nothing back from anyone, including the client, and her dentist. I can only conclude that the claims were fraudulent. The "subject" believed what she was told by the "faith healer" because she was in a hypnotic trance at the time.

That was the first and last time I heard about this magical approach to dentistry.

MY APPROACH TO FAITH
======================
By the way, rather than asking people to take a blind leap into the darkness, I ask them to take a careful walk in the light available to them.

In my search for a rational approach to "faith healing" I was greatly influenced by the very well-researched and controversial book,

Psychology, Religion and Healing, by the minister and psychologist, Dr. Leslie D. Weatherhead of London, England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Weatherhead
http://www.aabibliography.com/aaphotohtml/weathered2.html

Sampling of CONTENTS:
SUMMARY: FOREWORD BY THE REV. DR. ERIC S. WATERHOUSE & BY DR. GEOFFREY EVANS.

PREFACE. INTRODUCTION-MAN'S EARLIEST SEARCH FOR HEALING.

SECTION ONE - EARLIER METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH RELIGION.

I. CHRIST'S HEALING MIRACLES,
II. HEALING IN THE EARLY CHURCH,
III. THE PROBLEM OF DEMON POSSESSION. SECTION TWO - EARLIER METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY.

I. MESMERISM, II. HYPNOTISM, III. SUGGESTION.
SECTION THREE - MODERN METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH RELIGION.
I. THE LAYING ON OF HANDS,
II. THE PHENOMENA OF LOURDES,
III. CHRISTIAN SCIENCE,
IV. HEALING MISSIONS,
V. PSYCHIC PHENOMENA AND HEALING,
VI. OTHER RELIGIOUS HEALING MOVEMENTS,
VII. THE PRACTICE OF INTERCESSION.

SECTION FOUR - MODERN METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY. I - VI.,

SECTION FIVE. DO MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL METHODS OF HEALING NEED RELIGION? I. - VII.,

SECTION SIX. DO MODERN RELIGIOUS METHODS OF HEALING NEED PSYCHOLOGY? I - III.,

SECTION SEVEN - THE MODERN SEARCH FOR HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY AND RELIGION.
I - IV.
==============================================

HYPNOTISM
===========
Needless to say, I was impressed by the fact that the minister and psychologist, Dr. Leslie D. Weatherhead, mentioned above, took an interest in the phenomenon of hypnotism. While hypnotic-like phenomena are mentioned in ancient Greek and Egyptian papyri it is generally agree that all modern hypnotism stems from the work of the physician, a graduate (1766) of the University of Vienna, Franz Anton Mesmer. From his name we get our verb to mesmerize. He called the phenomenon, animal magnetism. For details about his life, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Anton_Mesmer

When I came to chapter on "hypnotism", immediately, I was drawn to and fascinated by the phenomenon. I decided to make an effort to understand what it is and to learn how to do it.

The more I looked into it the more I was amazed at the simplicity of it; and at how natural it is. I discovered that it is a natural phenomenon. Human beings, especially children, go into, and out of trances frequently and every day. The simply act of reading, or watching a movie in which you become totally involved is like going into a trance.

It is not unlike the way a child learns to walk, run, talk, sing and play. As children grow, physically, mentally and spiritually--with the help of wise parents and teachers, willing to risk giving children as much freedom as possible--they can learn to become masters in any field--sometimes in more than one--they happen to choose. By the way, the making of choices is what I call a pneumatological--that is, a spiritual and freedom-based--phenomenon.
==================================
A NAME THAT STANDS OUT, WEATHERHEAD
=========================================================================
During the period after the Second World War, in which English Protestant non-conformity declined rapidly, a handful of exceptional names stand out, and one of the most remarkable was that of the Methodist minister Leslie Dixon Weatherhead. Both through his ministry at the City Temple, in the heart of London, and more generally through the massive sales of his books, Dr. Weatherhead became a dominant figure, with an influence far beyond the British Isles.

That the City Temple, a Congregationalist church, was widely seen at the time as the greatest English Free Church pulpit, ensured him a wide audience, while the quality of his preaching, combining emotional and intellectual power, wit and eloquence, won him admirers among all the churches, and led to offers from a number of American and Canadian universities and congregations, as well as numerous honorary degrees from British and American universities.

Despite his Congregationalist call, he remained a Methodist minister, and indeed became President of the Methodist Conference. Perhaps even more important was that he was one of the earliest to recognize the value of the applications for the clergy of the insights of Freud and Jung.

His seventy-odd publications, of which, The Christian Agnostic, and, Psychology Religion and Healing, were the most influential. They bring out not only the theological liberalism that made him suspect in some circles, but also his understanding of the value of healing and of psychological insights. The result was that his 'lay theology' had a vast following. Although three other books have appeared about Weatherhead since his death,

For those who want to know more, by the way, John Travell's book about him explores all aspects of his life and portrays his historical, religious and theological context in greater depth.
===========================================================

About my undergraduate work in psychology and my reading his great book

PSYCHOLOGY, RELIGION & HEALING--A Survey of the Methods of Healing Through Psychology and Religion--by Leslie D. Weatherhead (Abingdon Press, copyright 1952-revised, 541 pages) greatly influenced the direction of my ministry--1953-1994.
===============================

PNEUMA, PSYCHE, SOMA--SPIRIT, MIND, BODY--components, or essential parts, of human nature
=============================================
PNEUMATOLOGY
===============
You may ask: "Why do you use the word 'pneumatological'?"

Because it refers, specifically, to the human spirit (pneuma). That is the spirit as distinct from our animal-like minds. Do we not call ourselves 'human', that is, thinking and self-conscious beings?

PSYCHOLOGY
============
When asked,"Why not 'psychological'--having to do with the mind, which is usually associated with the brain?"

I respond: "Because I have some basic training in philosophy/psychology, I do use it, especially when I want to refer to what we have in common with animal beings. Interestingly, before psychology broke away from its mother, philosophy, it was called 'pneumatology'--meaning study of the spirit." [World Book Dictionary makes this point.]

It is also interesting that it was Wilhelm Wundt, the son of an evangelical Lutheran minister, who, in 1879, in Leipzig, Germany, set up the first laborarory. His findings led the development of the school behaviourism and a new emphasis on physicalism. Much controversy broke out.

SOMATOLOGY
=============
I also use 'somatological'--having to do with the body, incluing the brain. After all, the brain is a physical organ. But we need to ask: Is it confined just to the head? The latest research seems to indicate that our mind/brain has a kind of wireless connection with much more than just our immediate environment.

In my opinion, the spirit component--an essential part, of our human nature--craves more and more freedom from the limitations of the mind and the body. This poses several important questions which I will put to myself:

What kind of spirit am I? Am I a spirit who want to make good choices? Or am I driven by my ego and unconscious drives to make ones that are not so good--even painful and evil ones? How free am I, really?

FREEDOM OF THE SPIRIT
======================
How free am I to say that I have the freedom of will to make this choice, or that. I would like to feel that I am, and will be, what I choose freely choose to be. Therefore, I choose freely the good, to lovingly discipline my mind and body, as I would my children, to come along. In other words, I choose to be at one with Spirit, Life, Love, all Being, GOD--the Spirit of goodness, order and design in and through all that is. Can I not do this without even using the acronym 'GOD' or the noun 'God'?

As I understand it, the one basic tool of the Spirit is imagination--the ability to visualize what is good, or evil.

In my opinion, I have the power to use my will and imagination for good, or evil. I can say yes, or no, to Life and Being. If I choose to do nothing, I choose to do evil. I cannot be neutral.

It seems to me that, on their own, the mind and the body, like stubborn children, tend to resist the change necessary to get this freedom and to live as spiritually attuned adults.

BACK TO BRAID
==============
Back to learning how to use the phenomenon, which Dr. James Braid admitted he misnamed "hypnosis". Read his story. He tried to change "hypnotism" to "monoideism"--the ability to focus on and imagine one idea.

As I studied the history of what Braid, Mesmer--Mesmer called what Braid called "hypnosis" "animal magnetism"--and others before them had discovered, I soon discovered that, in modern times, it is surrounded by all kinds of myths perpetrated by the media and fiction. In the far east it was called "yoga".

MOVIES AND MYTHS--EVEN FALSE ONES
====================================
Not all myths are false but, for example, the novel, Trilby, which was written in 1894 by George du Maurier, is filled with a FALSE myth.

In 1931, when John Barrymore played the role of the manipulative hypnotist, Svengali, in a movie based on the book, the myth was spread to all who saw it. It spread all kinds of false concepts about the "power" of hypnotists.

The fact is: hypnotists have only the power which subjects--using their imagination in an unconsciously and negative way--give them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali
The mad monk, Rasputin had the same kind of master-subject reputation.

THE MASTER-SUBJECT MYTH
=========================
The fact is: All hypnosis is self-hypnosis. It is up to us whether or not we become subjects or partners in a health-producing partnership.

INTRODUCING MILTON H. ERICKSON
================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson
IMO, Erickson was more of what I call a pneumatherapist than he was a hypnotist. He led his clients to take control into their own hands and not have to depend on a master from outside.

THIS IS INTERESTING AND CONTROVERSIAL
http://www.milton-erickson-exposed.com/

AND MAXWELL MALTZ
====================
It was back in the 1970's that I first read PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE (Prentice Hall, 1960).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Maltz

Not long before his death, I had the pleasure of meeting the author, Dr. Maxwell Maltz (1899-1975)--a plastic surgeon by profession. I met him in Toronto.

Following a very interesting lecture I got the opportunity to tell him about my interest in the integrative approach to total health of body, mind and spirit. I told him about what I then began calling pneumatology--the study of spirituality. Spirit (Pneuma), as I understand it is what, Echart Tolle--in his book, The power of the NOW--calls the Un-manifested Source of all that IS--physically and mentally.

I told Dr. Maltz that even as a student minister ( I was ordained in 1953 ) I had the feeling that I am not in the ministry just to preach--that is, to declare the basic principles of living the good life--but also to teach about health and help people heal themselves.

"I am interested" I said, "in helping people be the kind of spirit-filled people we all, deep down, want to be, in the NOW. I am not into converting anyone to any absolute form of religion dominated by fixed-position thinking--the kind of religion which promises, 'pie in the sky, by and by, when you die', if followers agree to obey self-appointed religious hierarchy, pray to a god as defined by this hierarchy and pay what is demanded of them."

I showed him a written outline of the lecture series which I started giving in 1964 under the general heading PRAYER THERAPY. Later, I used the term PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of all things spiritual.

After he viewed the outline his words to me were most encouraging. Naturally, I urged my pneumatology students to get and read Dr. Maltz's book, Psycho-Cybernetics. IMO, his book is more about what I would call Pneuma-Cybernetics.

[comments and constructive criticisms will be welcomed. [IN THE PROCESS OF BEING REVISED]
========================================================
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simon
post Mar 28, 2007, 01:10 PM
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What is a "good life" ?
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post Mar 28, 2007, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(simon @ Mar 28, 2007, 01:10 PM) *

What is a "good life" ?
If by your question you are implying that "good" is a relative adjective, you will get no argument from me.

It is my opinion that, keeping in mind what is legally and socially acceptable, it is up to individuals to decide what is good for them at any particular point in their lives. It is also my opinion that the wise use of cybernetic principles can be of great help to us in making the choices which are the best possible ones for us.

PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS--A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE, by Maxwell Maltz, M.D., A
F.I.C.S., plastic surgeon, was first published by Prentice Hall in 1960. The pocket book edition was published in 1969. Hall. In the preface Maltz writes: "I, myself, take no credit for the breakthrough, other than the recognition of it." (Preface VIII).

As I said, in the late 1960's, I had the opportunity to meet and chat with Dr. Maltz, when he visited and gave a lecture in Toronto. I was impressed. What he said backed up what I had learned from read the works of inspired writers such as:

LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD
From the beginning of my ministry in 1953, inspired by the writings of the minister/psychologist, Leslie D. Weatherhead, https://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/....do?sku=3687468

In case you missed it, here is a: Synopsis of a book about him:

During the period after the Second World War, in which English Protestant non-conformity declined rapidly, a handful of exceptional names stand out, and one of the most remarkable was that of the Methodist minister Leslie Dixon Weatherhead. Both through his ministry at the City Temple, in the heart of London, and more generally through the massive sales of his books, Dr Weatherhead became a dominant figure, with an influence far beyond the British Isles.

That the City Temple, a Congregationalist church, was widely seen at the time as the greatest English Free Church pulpit, ensured him a wide audience, while the quality of his preaching, combining emotional and intellectual power, wit and eloquence, won him admirers among all the churches, and led to offers from a number of American and Canadian universities and congregations, as well as numerous honorary degrees from British and American universities.

Despite his Congregationalist call, he remained a Methodist minister, and indeed became President of the Methodist Conference. Perhaps even more important was that he was one of the earliest to recognize the value of the applications for the clergy of the insights of Freud and Jung.

His seventy-odd publications, of which, The Christian Agnostic, and, Psychology Religion and Healing, were the most influential. They bring out not only the theological liberalism that made him suspect in some circles, but also his understanding of the value of healing and of psychological insights. The result was that his 'lay theology' had a vast following. Although three other books have appeared about Weatherhead since his death, John Travell's explores all aspects of his life and portrays his historical, religious and theological context in greater depth.

About my undergraduate work in psychology and my reading his great book

PSYCHOLOGY, RELIGION & HEALING--A Survey of the Methods of Healing Through Psychology and Religion--by Leslie D. Weatherhead (Abingdon Press, copyright 1952-revised, 541 pages) greatly influenced the direction of my ministry--1953-1994.

WEATHERHEAD AND ALL THE AA MOVEMENTS
=========================================
By the way, Weatherhead had a close connection to the Oxford Group. His book "Discipleship" contains a virtual manual on the Oxford Group principles that found their way into all the A.A. programs, including Alcoholics Anonymous.

In Boston, about 1905, The Emmanuel Movement arose. It recognized the role of the body, mind and spirit in the treatment and healing of illnesses, including alcoholism. An early book describing the Emmanuel Movement was "Religion and Medicine". Weatherhead's book "Psychology, Religion and Healing" is an extension of that work and examines the methods of healing through mind and spirit. I became aware of the Emmanuel Movement when, In 1954-1955, I did post graduate studies at Boston University.

Allow me to interject here: One of the writers quoted by Maltz is:

HARRY EMERSON FOSDICK
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1933
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Emerson_Fosdick

I preached many sermons based on the writings of Weatherhead and Fosdick.

After I met Maltz, studied his book, and was encouraged by his personal words to me, I incorporated more and more of this basic philosophy of the holistic, or integrated, approach to health in the sermons I preached at Willowdale United Church, where I was the minister from 1966-1994. There, I also continued to give a lecture series under the heading, pneumatology--the study of the human and devine spirit in all of us.

When I retired from the active pastoral ministry I became re-directed--a term I prefer to being retired. I continue to write, counsel and to advocate holism, the totally integrated approach to achieving our full human potential.

The teachings of Maltz have been used, directly, by thousands of successful individuals for decades in achieving their dreams as they increase their belief in themselves. This allows them to use the Automatic Success Mechanism, a term Maltz created, to achieve their dreams. It is Maltz's view that one must have an accurate and positive view of their self before setting their goals. If it does so in the opposite way the individual will continue to get stuck in the same patterns of limiting beliefs.

His ideas focus on visualizing your goals--a simple idea which some cognitive-science research, in the area of priming, has validated under certain conditions.

WHAT IMAGE DO YOU HAVE OF YOURSELF?
======================================
Maltz, as did many before him, believed that self-image is the corner stone of all the changes which take place in people. If one's self image is unhealthy, or faulty, all other efforts will end in failure.
============================================
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post Mar 29, 2007, 07:18 AM
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WHAT IS CYBERNETICS?

It is commonly understood that cybernetics is the study of feedback and derived concepts such as communication and control in living organisms, machines and organisations.

SOMA-CYBERNETICS
In my opinion, there are three forms of cybernetics. Physically, or somatically speaking, living bodies are cybernetic mechanisms. The bodies and brains of all living beings, including human beings, depend on cybernetic control.

THE WORK OF WALTER BRADFORD CANNON
Born in Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin, October 19, 1871 and died in Lincoln, Massachusetts, October 19, 1945, he was an American who did a lot of research in physiology

Fight or flight
In 1915, he coined the term 'fight, or flight' to describe animal's responses to threats (Bodily Changes in Pain, Hunger, Fear and Rage: An Account of Recent Researches into the Function of Emotional Excitement, Appleton, New York, 1915). He also coined the term 'homeostasis'--literally, back to home, or to balance.

HOMEOSTASIS
He developed the concept of homeostasis, and popularized it in his book The Wisdom of the Body, published in 1932 by W. W. Norton, New York.

Cannon presented four tentative propositions to describe the general features of homeostasis:

1. Constancy in an open system, such as our bodies represent, requires mechanisms that act to maintain this constancy. Cannon based this proposition on insights into the ways by which steady states such as glucose concentrations, body temperature and acid-base balance were regulated.

2. Steady-state conditions require that any tendency toward change automatically meets with factors that resist change. An increase in blood sugar results in thirst as the body attempts to dilute the concentration of sugar in the extracellular fluid.

3. The regulating system that determines the homeostatic state consists of a number of cooperating mechanisms acting simultaneously or successively. Blood sugar is regulated by insulin, glucagons, and other hormones that control its release from the liver or its uptake by the tissues.

4. Homeostasis does not occur by chance, but is the result of organized self-government.

The term cybernetics stems from the ancient Greek Κυβερνήτης (kybernetes, steersman, governor, pilot, or rudder. Interestingly, from this same root we get our words 'governor' and 'government'.

The ancient Greeks used this term for the rudder used to steer ships. Keep in mind that rudders, like the tail feathers of a bird, never remain in a fixed-position. If the ship, or the bird, is to reach its purposed goal, the rudder and tail feathers have to keep changing, constantly, to meet deal with changes in the tide and the wind.

It is an earlier, but still-used, generic term to describe subject matters having to do with adaptive systems, artificial intelligence, complex control systems, decision support systems, dynamical systems, information theory, learning organizations, mathematical systems theory, operations research, simulation, and systems engineering. The computer is a cubernetic system.

PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS
A more philosophical definition, suggested in 1956 by Louis Couffignal, one of the pioneers of cybernetics, characterizes cybernetics as "the art of ensuring the efficacy of action".

When we approach the level of philosophy, we are dealing with matters of the mind and the multiple levels thereof, including the training and education animals, including human animals.
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post Apr 03, 2007, 01:42 PM
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UNITING THE TRYPTYCH OF LIFE
Stop for a moment and think, when push comes to shove: LIFE IS REALLY LIKE A TRIPTYCH--a whole picture made up of a set of three panels, which are set side by side. All panels are important, but think of the central panel as that which contains the central and essential you.

The panel on the left is that which contains that which makes up the physical you, which you inherited from your ancestors, including your parents. The one on the right contains that which contains your training and education.
=============================================================
The term 'triptych' comes from the Greek meaning three folds. This is a good way of thinking about the kind of information we give to people who ask: What can the kind of program does your Family Life and Community Foundation, offer to people who come to you for help.

THE CENTRAL PANEL --back to the importance of self-image
Let us call the central panel The Pneuma, or spiriitual, Panel. As part of this panel we could also use terms like spirit, soul, mind, self, or even self-image.

It is no wonder that the first chapter of Maxwell Maltz's best-selling book, PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS--A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE (1960), is entitled: The Self Image: Your Key to a Better Life.

By the way, the Pocket Book edition came out in 1969. Millions bought the book in its first decade, and it is still selling (2007). Maltz was trained as a medical doctor and a plastic surgeon. I writes that it was his experience as a plastic surgeon which made him keenly aware of the role played by the human mind, or spirit, when it comes to physical and mental health. He also readily admits that many writers before him discovered the need to understand the psychology of self and that it can mean the difference between health and disease, success and failure, love and hate, a life filled with bitterness and one filled with joy and love.

Long before Maltz, Carl Jung--the author of many books, including Man's Search for His Soul--the founder of analytical psychology, called for a "science of the spirit". I wonder if Jung was aware of pneumatology, which we will discuss, later?

ABOUT JUNG
http://www.muskingum.edu/~psych/psycweb/history/jung.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung

http://www.friesian.com/jung.htm

Jung, whose work, generally speaking, I admire--I consider him to be one of my intellectual heroes--had many critics. Here is one:
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/jungleg.html

ABOUT WILLIAM JAMES
--Who I consider to be another one of my intellectual heroes.
http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/james.html
On his theory of the soul, the mind, the spirit or self-image.

WHAT ABOUT JESUS' POINT OF VIEW?
I have little idea of what the following is all about, but I find it interesting. Check it out and let me know what you think, okay?
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/james/soul.htm
=================================
For decades, I have been practicing, what I think of as the art of counseling, by asking people, who come to me for help, the following kind of questions:

Are you, personally, willing to be part of the healing process? That is, are you willing to be part of the solution, not just part of the problem?

Then I add: Unless I get a yes, I cannot help you. And, in my humble opinion: Neither can anyone else. Even Jesus could not help people "of little faith". He taught that faith could be as small as a grain of mustard seed--the smallest seed in that part of the world--but it had to be there.

Once I have the consent, or the will, of the person--part of the pneuma panel--to begin the process, without negelecting what is going on in the person's spirit, I move quickly into what is going on in the person's SOMA--the physical panel. Physically speaking, we are what we eat.

SOMA, PSYCHE, AND PNEUMA--THE THREE PANELS
Keep in mind that by 'nutrition' I am talking complete nutrition--physically, mentally and spiritually. Complete nutrition involves the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat. It also includes what we ingest mentally and spiritually, as well as physically.

In my humble opinion, physically speaking, incomplete nutrition is what is destroying the physical health of millions of people, locally and worldwide. Incomplete physical nutrition is the root cause of the epidemic of obesity about which we are now being frequently informed by the media.

THE PREVENTION OF DISEASE
Beginning with the study of the spirit, or pneuma, pneumatology, those of us involved in holistic health give prevention priority role in all this. The goal of the FLF (including the community, the total community and students of pneumatology) is the much less expensive route. It is the route of the prevention of disease. Does this include you? We trust it does.

Unfortunately, prevention is not on the top of the mind (the spirit, the soul) of most people. It should be! What about you?

PREVENTION OF PHYSICAL DISEASE IS ABOUT PHYSICAL NUTRITION
By helping us to have complete nutrition--and it is not all that complex. It is the kind of nutrition which is designed to provide us with a balanced metabolism. This can prevent what I call yoyo-glycemia--blood insulin and glucose imbalance--BIGI. Prevent BIGI and diseases such as diabetes will be prevented.

In my opinion, the reward is that we will live by faith, hope and love, remain healthy and happy people, dieopinion, the purpose of life is to live with health and joy, and to die in peace with hope that there is joy is life eternal.
====================
THE ROLE OF RELIGION
By the way: When I say, my 'religion' is...I am simply referring to my way of life--from day to day. In other words, one's philosophy of life IS one's religion. Most people who say they have no use for religion
mean organized religion with all the trappings such as dogmas, rituals and politics.

THE ROLE OF ECONOMICS
Economics. The term comes, almost directly, from Greek word, oikonomos, which literally means, 'rules of managing, or running, one's household'. Interestingly, oikos, is the Greek for 'house'. The usual English translation is 'steward'--a keeper of the animal stys. Before the introduction of metals, animals were basic elements of the economy. Both kinds of commodities made up what we now mean when we refer to a barter economy.

THE BARTER ECONOMY TODAY
The FLF is interested in the promotion of the barter economy in modern times. We think of it as, not in competition to, but complimentary to the market economy.

The members of the FLF believe in the use of complementary and community currencies (CCC).

By the way, we believe that, at little or no personal risk, those who are willing to experiment with this system, will discover that it is a way to employ everyone seeking employment. They will learn how to do many things, which are good, not just for the bottom line, but for the whole of society.

In addition to the hard sciences, such as physics, chemistry and mathematics, this approach leads members of the FLF to develop an interest in all the social sciences, including anthropology, sociology, psychology and ethics.

The Family Life Foundation is a volunteer-operated and non-sectarian and registered charity,
#888 762 663 RR0001.

The FLF was founded in 1973, by the Rev. Lindsay G. King--a retired minister of the United Church of Canada--and friends. The mission of the FLF is about promoting holistic (physical, mental and spiritual) health and prosperity through the process of education. We do this with the help of science, faith and the arts all integrated by the human imagination. http://www.flfcanada.com (905) 764-1125

Currently, we are involved in association with www.princetoncollege of canada.com This association of the FLF with Princeton College is for the purpose of helping both parties fulfill their mission to do public service. We invite invite all who read this message to get involved and be part of the process.
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Lindsay
post Apr 04, 2007, 01:28 PM
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Check the latest post, please.
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Culture
post Apr 04, 2007, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 04, 2007, 01:28 PM) *

Check the latest post, please.


No offense Lindsay. But seems that youre having a monologue going here. I do not think it is in the spirit of brainmeta to use the forums as a blog/personal site.
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Lindsay
post Apr 05, 2007, 05:49 AM
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QUOTE(Culture @ Apr 04, 2007, 10:09 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 04, 2007, 01:28 PM) *

Check the latest post, please.


No offense Lindsay.....
Likewise, no offense, Culture. But you just read my post, right? This, I trust, means that dialogue is possible, and encouraged. smile.gif

BTW, in a post to Max I suggested that I give an outline of my thoughts on doing a close study of Maxwell Maltz's book Psycho-Cybernetics...and how the universal principles he write about there can be of practical use in solving personal problems. Max responded: "Go for it". People who feel like interjecting comments, constructive criticisms, questions, or helpful material they have found, are most welcome.

Keep in mind that this thread is in the Personal Advice section. With people like Angelroze in mind I hope that this thread can serve as a way of helping posters there deal with the mess in which they find themselves. Your contribution will be most welcome. If this is not the way to go, I welcome moderators to let me know. I'm easy.

Maybe it could be published in the BrainMeta Monthly as a chapter-by-chapter post, eh? ( As we say in Canada).

Here's a suggestion: You and others are welcome to take a look at the Miscellany and Personal Advice Sections. Then think about the best kind of advice you have to offer and offer it. Surely all the sciences ought to be pragamatic, not just so much theory--ivory-tower and academic stuff.
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post Apr 05, 2007, 09:32 PM
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THE FOLLOWING PRINCIPLES, WHICH ARE SUBJECT TO BEING REVISED, ARE NOT MEANT TO DOGMATIC CREEDAL STATMENTS. I AM NOT INTO FIXED-POSITION THINKING.

1. For me, life, warts and all, is a sacred and god-like mystery, which I approach with care and a rational philosophy filled with wonder and awe. As I approach life I endeavour to maintain a humble curiousity. With the help of science and logic I work to gain more and more knowledge and understanding about the laws of nature and how things can work together for the personal and social good of all of us. When knowledge becomes wisdom, the sciences and technologies will help us build things of beauty, which can become lasting things of joy.

2. A believer in freedom, I choose to think of myself as a spiritual, conscious, aware, or pneumatological being who willingly lives in the eternal now mentally, or psychologically. I also have the ability to express myself physically, or somatologically, under the strong influence of my spiritual heritage and traditions.

3. While I value freedom, I do not think of freedom as the right to do what we like; it is our opportunity to do that which is moral, ethical, loving and responsible in the spirit of the Golded Rule.
Check out
http://www.goldenruleradical.org/
Accepting guidance from my personal conscience and that of the communiity, I can move with a confident faith, hope and love into the future.

4. Because I value a variety of traditions, I choose to draw from a variety of sources of wisdom, including the great philosophies and religions. There are many things about which I am agnostic.

5. Because I find great joy in the search for knowledge, wisdom and understanding. I love questioning and being questioned.

6. At this point, I freely choose to belong to a family and community that is inclusive, non-discriminatory, non-hierarchical and where our common humanity is honoured in a trusting atmosphere of mutual respect and support.

7. Based on the above, I freely choose to promote forms of individual and community celebration, study, and meditative prayer, which are inclusive, non-dogmatic, and which use value-based language. Life for me is a pilgrimage in which we can walk together and experience growth characterized by honesty, integrity, openness, respect, intellectual rigor, courage, creativity, and balance. Whether we agree or disagree, we now agree to do so agreeably, and in the spirit of agape/love, the highest good.
==========================0000000====================================
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post Apr 05, 2007, 09:53 PM
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WHAT ABOUT MEDITATIVE and AFFIRMATIVE POSITIVE [quote]PRAYER
MAPP, for me, begins when I begin the process of having an internal dialogue. Originating in my pneuma it is a kind of PNEUMA-PSYCHO-SOMA-CYBERNETIC ACTIVITY

I do not plead with, or petition, a seemingly reluctant and silent God--the apparent originator of at least three world religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) each with their own sacred books--for this that or the other thing. I usually begin my diallogue by asking questions, about myself, my family and my community. Then I set goals as to what I need to do with my life within myself, my family and my community. I like using the expression: "Wouldn't it be nice if......?"

Looking at the physical, mental and spiritual circumstances in which I find myself, I visualize that which I would like to accomplish; that which I would like to see happen; that which I feel will help the situation and do no harm to anyone.

At this point, as I said above, I ask my favourite question: "Wouldn't it be nice if...? I name the project I wish to accomplish and make the following affirmation: "I am being guided and led to the people I need
And the people who need me; I am being guided and led to the things which need to be done, and the things I enjoy doing, which will be of benefit to all concerned.
=====================================
I am usually amazed at how often things turn out well.
=====================================

TO PRAY, FOR ME, MEANS TO
MEDITATE
VISUALIZE
AFFIRM
PONDER
WEIGH
BALANCE
COGITATE
REFLECT
THINK
CONTEMPLATE
RELAX and enjoy the universe as it
UNFOLDS
..............
==================000000000000000000000000000=================
The above are all words which come to mind when I think of the deeper meaning of the term 'prayer'. Our English verb 'to pray' comes to us from through the Old French prier from the Late Latin precare. It simply means to ask earnestly. Most believers think of it as petitioning an almighty God to act on their behalf

It is no longer used in every day language like it was in the Elizabethan era. We use it, almost exclusively, to refer to what believers do when then pray That is, when they speak to a god, gods, or God, in private and/or public worship and make an earnest request for help, including things they feel we deserve.

Interestingly, from the Latin term we also get our adjective precarious, which we use to describe being dependent on the will or pleasure of another. It is probably for this reason that many modern and sophisticated people feel very uncomfortable about the act of praying. Many, including the growing number of agnostics and atheists have giving up praying, altogether, equating it with being superstitious. This probably accounts for the dramatic drop, in the last twenty-five years or so, of the number of people who attend churches and other places of worship, regularly.

MEDITATIVE AND AFFIRMATIVE PRAYING IS MORE ABOUT LISTENING THAN SPEAKING
My search for a better way to connect with WHAT ABOUT MEDITATIVE and AFFIRMATIVE PRAYER
MAP, for me, begins when I begin the process of having an internal dialogue. Originating in my pneuma it is a kind of PNEUMA-PSYCHO-SOMA-CYBERNETIC ACTIVITY

I do not plead with, or petition, a seemingly reluctant and silent God--the apparent originator of at least three world religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) each with their own sacred books--for this that or the other thing. I usually begin my dialogue by asking questions, about myself, my family and my community. Then I set goals as to what I need to do with my life within myself, my family and my community. I like using the expression: "Wouldn't it be nice if......?"

Looking at the physical, mental and spiritual circumstances in which I find myself, I visualize that which I would like to accomplish; that which I would like to see happen; that which I feel will help the situation and do no harm to anyone.

At this point, as I said above, I ask my favourite question: "Wouldn't it be nice if...? I name the project I wish to accomplish and make the following affirmation: "I am being guided and led to the people I need
And the people who need me; I am being guided and led to the things which need to be done, and the things I enjoy doing, which will be of benefit to all concerned.
=====================================
I am usually amazed at how often things turn out well.
=====================================

*******************************
GOD (see the spelling I use in my signature )--that which is total, universal, all-encompassing and inter-penetrating
Speaking personally: Though I have always believed that there is more to life than meets the eye and the other human senses; that there is a spiritual reality beyond the material cosmos, with which we can make a connection, and, which I feel, even inter-penetrates every particle of it, I have always--perhaps since I was twelve--felt uncomfortable with the idea of praying to an almighty, human-like and personal god, or God, up, or out, there.

Because of this, I am glad that I grew up in a church which allowed, indeed encouraged--and does even NOW--people to feel personally free in matters of belief and ritual. Church leaders, even those who practiced kneeling in prayer, did not preach at us that prayer requires kneeling, or even leaning forward in the pews, with eyes closed. This attitude of prayer has always impressed me as a kind of groveling before some invisible master up there. No one made a fuss when I deliberately avoided using the so-called 'prayer position'. Later, when, as a minister, I began to preach about and explore new ways of communicating with the Divine Mind in all things and behind all that is, only a few conservative believers--and not all of them were in their senior years--objected. Indeed, most of the members of the churches I served welcomed the changes I made.

MEDITATIVE AND AFFIRMATIVE PRAYING IS MORE ABOUT LISTENING THAN SPEAKING
My search for a better way to connect with GOD began when I decided to see what it says about the act of praying in the Bible. I checked out the meaning of the words having to do with praying as used in the languages of the original Bible. The Jewish Bible--what we call the Old Testament--was written, almost exclusively, in Hebrew. There are a few passages in the OT which were written in Aramaic, which was the official language of the Persian Empire. It had a great influence on Hebrew and Arabic.

Genesis 31:47; Jeremiah 10:11; Ezra 4:8--6:18, 7:12--26; Daniel 2:4b--7:28 were written in Aramaic. Jesus spoke Galilean Aramaic. the verb to pray in Aramaic is 'slaha'. It simply means to 'connect with' or 'to tune in to'. The modern Arabic is similar. This implies that those who spoke Aramaic and Arabic and spoke of tuning in to GOD thought of it as more like active listening to GOD, as one would listen to a radio broadcast, than it was about talking to GOD--as in my signature,
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post Apr 14, 2007, 01:08 PM
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SELF-IMAGE, PRAYER AND THE IMAGINATION
======================================
As part understanding self-image it is important that we under the power of the human imagination. To illustrate this, I will tell you about the life and work if The Rev. Dr. Franklin Loehr.
=================================
ABOUT THE LATE DR. LOEHR (1912-1988)
http://www.answers.com/Franklin%20Davison%20Loehr
================================================
THE EFFECT OF PRAYER ON PLANTS, AND OTHER THINGS
====================================================
In the 1960's and 1970's I was a close friend--still am--of the then Religion Editor of the Toronto Star, Allen Spraggett, now retired--a careful student of philosophy, psychology, theology and all the religions. He was very interested in the role played psychology, psychic phenomena, and parapsychology in religion and faith healing, and the like.

It was with his help that I first met the Rev. Dr. Franklin Loehr--minister and researcher in the claims of religion--in 1963. Then, with the help of the Toronto Star, which covered all costs, I invited him and his wife to my church and my home. He spoke to my whole congregation on a Sunday and to a special group interested in faith and healing, later. He spoke of his carefully controlled experiments on the nature and effect of prayer on seeds and plant life.

Does prayer effect plant seeds?

He told us that the objective of his controlled experiments was to see what effect prayer had over living and seemingly non-living matter.

In one experiment--covered in detail is his book, with pictures--his research team took three pans of various types of seeds. One was the control pan. One pan received positive prayer, and the other received negative prayer.

Time after time, the results indicated that prayer helped speed germination and produced more vigorous plants. Prayers of negation actually halted germination in some plants and suppressed growth in others.

In another experiment two bottles of spring water were purchased. One container was used as a control, receiving no prayer; a group prayed for the second.

The water was then used on pans of corn seeds layered in cotton, with one pan receiving the prayer water and the other receiving the control water. The pan receiving the prayer water sprouted a day earlier than seeds in the other pan. The prayer seeds had a higher germination and growth rate. The experiment was repeated with the same result each time.

His work was later duplicated under rigorous laboratory conditions by Dr. Bernard Grad at McGill University, in Montreal.

[color:#FF0000]MY DAUGHTER'S EXPERIMENT--on the power of focused imagination, affirmative and meditative prayer[/color]
As I have written above, my daughter, a child in the 1963, was very ill at that time of Dr. Loehr's visit. But what I learned from him and others helped, later, to restore her to health.

Years later, when she was a healthy Grade 9 student in junior high, my daughter became very interested in understanding more about the power which had been of so much help to her. Thus she read the book of which she heard me speak, The Power of Prayer on Plants, by Dr. Loehr. I still have it in my library.

Inspired by this, and with her science teacher's permission and supervision, she decided to do an experiment. I still have her hand-written document on file in which she tells about what she did and what happened as a result of her experiment. She used tomato seeds.

HERE IS A SUMMARY
==================
She planted three containers of fifteen tomatoe seeds each, all with the same kind of soil and each received the same amount of watering.

Container #1, the control group, was set aside and left to grow, naturally, on its own, with no attention other than watering.

Container #2 was placed next to container #3. Using her imagination and a focussed and meditative kind of prayer, she prayed over #3.

The seeds in the container #3 sprouted quickly and grew quite well.

Meanwhile the seeds in container #2 sprouted and grew as expected and in pace with the control group.

At this point, my daughter did something unusual. She focussed on the healthy plants in container #3. She sent them negative prayer-thoughts. Soon, they stopped growing and began to die.

Then she focussed on the slow-growing container #2. Rapidly the plants developed and surpassed the plants in # 3, which continued to wither. Then they all died. Meanwhile, #2 container progressed, rapidly.

I FOUND THE FOLLOWING EXPERIMENT TRULY AMAZING: She brought the healthy plants home--the ones in #2 container--and put them in the freezer long enough to freeze them. Then she took them out; focussed on them her postive imagination and warm prayer thoughts. They survived the freezing and continued their growth as healthy plants.

That summer I had the best tomatoes I ever had.

Her supervising teacher gave her top marks for the project.

My daughter, now an accomplished artist, and her artist husband now live in a floating home, and a floating garden as part of it, near Tofino, British Columbia. It covers over one quarter of an acre. There, they do their art and grow all the vegetables they need. Check out:
http://www.wildretreat.com/
This will give you some idea of what the Tofino area looks like. My daughter said: "This place time came to me as a result of focused meditative praying."

Her mother and I have visited there, often. It is a work of art in progress, which is at a new creative stage each time we see it.

================================
http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm
=================================
For three years, beginning in 1952, Dr. Loehr conducted a double-locked laboratory experiment, using 156 people to determine if prayer could have an effect on the growth of plants. Keep in mind that we are not talking about prayers of petition, in the ordinary sense of the word, to gods or a God. It involves the use of the imagination of people who are not necessarily "religious", or churchy. Loehr discovered that --

THERE ARE FOUR TYPES OF PRAYING
==================================
This book documents the astounding results of these experiments, proving not only that prayer is effective but also isolating four different types of prayer.
1. Imagination
2. Imagination + feeling
3. Imagination + feeling, + spiritual assistance
4. imagination + feeling, + assistance + divine connectivity.

Originally published in 1959, by Doubleday, this book brought Dr. Loehr on a lecture tour that carried him all over the continental United States, Canada and also to lecture at Cambridge in England. 1969. 127 pages.
=========================
ABOUT DR. LOEHR
http://www.answers.com/Franklin%20Davison%20Loehr
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Hey Hey
post Apr 14, 2007, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Mar 28, 2007, 08:41 PM) *
PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE
Lindsey, I forget .... why don't christians all commit suicide as the afterlife is supposed to be so good? Why does god offer a life, when it is such a short interlude and the afterlife is so much better and longer? Surely it must be to observe suffering; a little like the way we observe horror movies - for the gory pleasure. If we went straight to the afterlife we would have no option to sin. So why bother with the life thing at all? Then forever could be all sweetness and light .... for god and us.
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post Apr 14, 2007, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 14, 2007, 01:27 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Mar 28, 2007, 08:41 PM) *
PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE
Lindsay, .... why don't christians all commit suicide ....If we went straight to the afterlife we would have no option to sin. So why bother with the life thing at all? Then forever could be all sweetness and light .... for god and us.
HH, of course you realize that you are offering a very simplistic solution to a very complex and challenging problem, life. And this appears to be what those who hold a simplistic approach to life's problems appear to be teaching--peace and pie, in the sky, by and by, when you die.

Keep in mind: I have very little time for and trust in the values as taught by simplistic religionists. Or haven't you noticed? IMHO, process philosophy and theology, like our evolution to consciousness, requires that we go through challenging processes to reach worthwhile goals.

I do not look forward to a heaven where I will RIP--rest in peace, without any kind of challenge. I hope it will be a "place" where I will have all the knowledge wisdom and power to meet all challenges and to be forever part of the creative process of GOD.
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post Apr 14, 2007, 09:30 PM
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the fountain of eternal knowledge ......
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Lindsay
post Apr 15, 2007, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 14, 2007, 09:30 PM) *

the fountain of eternal knowledge ......
Yeah! I like it.

For me, life eternal is--as life is now--a challenging, adventure-filled and beautiful journey with a variety of destinations. It also involves being with many different kinds of people. It is certainly not just a journey to one single destination called heaven, to be with the same old crowd, singing the same old hymns. BTW, I can enjoy being with the same old crowd, now and then; but not all the time. smile.gif
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Lindsay
post Aug 16, 2008, 11:06 AM
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Zizius, I bring this thread to your attention in the hope it will be of some help to you.
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Lindsay
post May 14, 2009, 10:41 PM
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Bringing this forward to Now:
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Mar 28, 2007, 11:41 AM) *
BACKGROUND TO PNEUMA-PSYCHOSOMATIC HEALTH
============================================It was in 1947 that I took my first courses in philosophy/psychology. Because of my curiosity of how our bodies, minds and spirits affect each other, for good or ill, I decided to major in this field under the guidance of my faculty adviser--a theologian with a very rational and open mind. "When you come into my classes" he was fond of saying, "I do not want you to leave your brains where you hang your hat."
From then on I read everything I could find on psychology, philosophy, religion and the total health of body, mind and spirit.


My adviser pointed out, frequently, that Jesus told his followers, not just to preach, but to teach and heal. This is the pattern--the rational integration of philosophy, psychology and theology, and their role in helping us have total health--which I followed for all my forty years of pastoral ministry--and on into what I call my re-directment.

WHAT ABOUT THE SO-CALLED FAITH HEALERS?
======================================
Please do not confuse the approach which I took, and still take, with that of people like the so-called "Faith Healers": Oral Roberts, Catherine Kuhlman, Benny Hinn and the like, including the interesting phenomenon known as Christian Science. Though I know through experience that beliefs and faith can have a powerful effect on total health, I was not, and am not, a fan of blind faith. Rather than asking people to take a blind leap into the darkness, I asked them to take a careful walk in the light available to them.

In my search for a rational approach to "faith healing" I was greatly influenced by the very well-researched and controversial book, Psychology, Religion and Healing, by the minister and psychologist, Dr. Leslie D. Weatherhead of London, England
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Weatherhead
http://www.aabibliography.com/aaphotohtml/weathered2.html

Sampling of CONTENTS:
SUMMARY: FOREWORD BY THE REV. DR. ERIC S. WATERHOUSE & BY DR. GEOFFREY EVANS.

PREFACE: INTRODUCTION--ABOUT MAN'S EARLIEST SEARCH FOR HEALING.

SECTION ONE --EARLIER METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH RELIGION.

I. CHRIST'S HEALING MIRACLES,
II. HEALING IN THE EARLY CHURCH,
III. THE PROBLEM OF DEMON POSSESSION. SECTION TWO - EARLIER METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY.


I. MESMERISM,
II. HYPNOTISM,
III. SUGGESTION.

SECTION THREE - MODERN METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH RELIGION.
I. THE LAYING ON OF HANDS,
II. THE PHENOMENA OF LOURDES,
III. CHRISTIAN SCIENCE,
IV. HEALING MISSIONS,
V. PSYCHIC PHENOMENA AND HEALING,
VI. OTHER RELIGIOUS HEALING MOVEMENTS,
VII. THE PRACTICE OF INTERCESSION.

SECTION FOUR -- MODERN METHODS OF HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY. I - VI.
SECTION FIVE -- DO MODERN PSYCHOLOGICAL METHODS OF HEALING NEED RELIGION? I. - VII.,
SECTION SIX -- DO MODERN RELIGIOUS METHODS OF HEALING NEED PSYCHOLOGY? I - III.,
SECTION SEVEN --THE MODERN SEARCH FOR HEALING THROUGH PSYCHOLOGY AND RELIGION. I - IV.
==============================================
When I came to the chapter on "hypnotism", immediately, I was drawn to and fascinated by the phenomenon. I decided to make an effort to understand what it is and to learn how to do it.

Later, I was quite amazed at the simplicity of it all; and at how natural it is. I discovered that animals, including human beings, especially children, go into, and out of trances, every day.

It is not unlike the way a child learns to walk, run, talk, dance, sing and play. As children grow, physically, mentally and spiritually--with the help of loving, wise parents and teachers, willing to risk giving children as much freedom as possible--they can learn to become masters in any field--sometimes in more than one--they happen to choose.

Parents, teachers: We must give our children the FREEDOM to choose what they want to do with their lives.
Warning: If you do it for them, in my opinion, the result will not be a happy one.

By the way, the making of choices is what I call a pneumatological--that is, a spiritual and freedom-based--phenomenon.

PNEUMA, PSYCHE, SOMA--SPIRIT, MIND, BODY
--components, or essential parts, of human nature
======================================
Why do I use the word 'pneumatological'--meaning having to do with the spirit? Why not 'psychological'--meaning having to do with the mind? Why not 'somatological'--meaninghaving to do with the body?

In my opinion, the spiritual component--an essential part, of our human nature--craves more and more freedom from the limitations of the mind and the body. This poses several important questions, which I will put to myself:

What kind of spiritual being am I? Am I a good spirit? Or an evil one?

I feel that I have the freedom of will to make choices. I am, and will be, what I freely choose to be. Therefore, I choose freely the good, to lovingly discipline my mind and body--as I would my children--to come along with me. In other words, I choose to be at one with Spirit, Life, Love, all Being, GOD--the Spirit of goodness, order and design, which I feel is in and through all that is.

As I understand it: One of the basic tools of the Spirit is imagination--the ability to visualize what is good.

In my opinion, I have the power to use my will and imagination for good, or evil. That is, I can say yes, or no, to Life and Being. I accept that, If I choose to do nothing, I choose to do evil. I cannot be neutral.

It seems to me that, on their own, the mind and the body, like stubborn children, tend to resist the change necessary to get this freedom and to live as spiritually attuned adults.

Back to learning how to use the phenomenon, which Dr. James Braid admitted he misnamed "hypnosis". Read his story. He tried to change it to "monoideism"--the ability to focus on and imagine one idea.

As I studied the history of what Braid, Mesmer--Mesmer called it "animal magnetism"--and others--In the far east it was called "yoga"--before them had discovered, I soon discovered that, in modern times, it is surrounded by all kinds of myths perpetrated by the media and fiction.

For example, the novel, Trilby, by George du Maurier, which was written in 1894 is filled with myth. In 1931, John Barrymore played the role of the manipulative hypnotist, Svengali in a movie based on the book. It spread all kinds of false concepts about the "power" of hypnotists. Hypnotists have only the power which subjects, using their imagination in an unconsciously-evil way, give them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali
The mad monk, Rasputin had the same kind of master-subject reputation.

THE MASTER-SUBJECT MYTH
==========================
The fact is: All hypnosis is self-hypnosis. It is up to us whether or not we become subjects or partners in a health-producing partnership.

INTRODUCING MILTON H. ERICKSON
================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson
IMO, Erickson was more of what I call a pneumatherapist than he was a hypnotist. He lead his clients to take control into their own hands and not have to depend on a master.

THIS IS INTERESTING AND CONTROVERSIAL
=======================================
http://www.milton-erickson-exposed.com/

AND MAXWELL MALTZ
===================
It was back in the 1970's that I first read PSYCHO-CYBERNETICS, A New Way to GET MORE LIVING OUT OF LIFE (Prentice Hall, 1960).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell_Maltz

Not long before his death, I had the pleasure of meeting the author, a plastic surgeon, Dr. Maxwell Maltz (1899-1975), in Toronto.

Following a very interesting lecture I got the opportunity to tell him about my interest in the integrative approach to total health of body, mind and spirit. I told him about what I then began calling pneumatology--the study of spirituality. Spirit (Pneuma), as I understand it is what, Echart Tolle--in his book, The power of the NOW--calls the Unmanifested Source of all that IS--physically and mentally.

I told Dr. Maltz that even as a student minister (I was ordained in 1953) I had the feeling that I am not in the ministry not just to preach--that is, declare the basic principles of living the good life--but also to teach about health and help people heal themselves.

"I am interested" I said, "in helping people be the kind of spirit-filled people we all, deep down, want to be, in the NOW. I am not into converting anyone to any absolute form of religion dominated by fixed-position thinking--the kind of religion which promises, 'pie in the sky, by and by, when you die', if followers agree to obey self-appointed religious hierarchy, pray to a god as defined by this hierarchy and pay what is demanded of them."

I showed him a written outline of the lecture series which I started giving in 1964 under the general heading PRAYER THERAPY. Later, I used the term PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of all things spiritual.

After he viewed the outline his words to me were most encouraging. Naturally, I urged my pneumatology students to get and read Dr. Maltz's book, Psycho-Cybernetics. IMO, his book is more about Pneuma-Cybernetics.

Your questions, comments and constructive criticisms will be welcomed.
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Enki
post May 16, 2009, 08:28 AM
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It may sound strange but few days ago I watched an interesting show by TV, a gentlemen was demonstrating how to grow seeds on hand.

It was so funny, I took some seeds, wet them with water, then dried them on paper for few minutes, then I put them into my palm and started to move finger of my other hand touching them like he was doing that. I was doing so for 5 minutes.

But I wonder why the same does not work with my body and I still have so many health related problems? Disharmony of soul and body? Or I am too evil, yes?
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post May 16, 2009, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ May 16, 2009, 08:28 AM) *
It may sound strange but few days ago I watched an interesting show by TV, a gentlemen was demonstrating how to grow seeds on hand.

It was so funny, I took some seeds, wet them with water, then dried them on paper for few minutes, then I put them into my palm and started to move finger of my other hand touching them like he was doing that. I was doing so for 5 minutes....
I am curious: Then what happened?
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post May 16, 2009, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 16, 2009, 01:53 PM) *
I am curious: Then what happened?


Well, eeee, some change was noted.
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Lindsay
post May 17, 2009, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ May 16, 2009, 09:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 16, 2009, 01:53 PM) *
I am curious: Then what happened?


Well, eeee, some change was noted.
I am very curious: What kind of change?
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Enki
post May 17, 2009, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 17, 2009, 01:35 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ May 16, 2009, 09:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 16, 2009, 01:53 PM) *
I am curious: Then what happened?


Well, eeee, some change was noted.
I am very curious: What kind of change?


Eeee, actually, well, eee it looked like that some seeds changed a little bit in shape, though they were many and I could miss the comparison, but I do not dare to make any other solid statement over the matter.
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Lindsay
post May 19, 2009, 04:34 AM
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QUOTE(Enki @ May 16, 2009, 08:28 AM) *
... But I wonder why the same--(growth and development that took place in seeds)--does not work with my body and I still have so many health related problems? Disharmony of soul and body?
This question needs to be really explored, in depth--by all of us caught in a web filled with pain and suffering.

So does this one; but it takes a love-based, non-judgmental courage, with no shaming or blaming, by anyone:
QUOTE
Or I am too evil, yes?
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post May 19, 2009, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 19, 2009, 12:34 PM) *

This question needs to be really explored, in depth--by all of us caught in a web filled with pain and suffering.

So does this one; but it takes a love-based, non-judgmental courage, with no shaming or blaming, by anyone:
QUOTE
Or I am too evil, yes?

And what does that look like to one who is not beyond judgment of personal opinion and ego?
Seems they crucified a man 2000 years ago for being non-judgmental and perfectly loving.
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post May 19, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Every lock has a key like every question has an answer.

We just need to find it out.

So it to work some options should be turned on.

Which options and how?: the lost keys of freemasonry? Or something we have no word to describe it yet, as it is unknown.

What man should repeat in mind or what image to imagine to heal while touching the body parts with a finger or palm?
Or prior to that he/she should pass some specific procedures of quite specific kind, e.g. to let the stone grow... or the 33-rd vertebra effect should be triggered? Who knows? Maybe we need to join together to disclose that encrypted Enigma?

Which options should be clicked so it starts to work?
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post May 19, 2009, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE(simon @ Mar 28, 2007, 02:10 PM) *

What is a "good life"?

Might it mean the life of a good person? I suppose we can all agree that some people are better than others. For example, take the case of a foul criminal versus a great leader.

So perhaps we should look to those we would praise as ones to emulate. Should we be a greedy businessman like Donald Trump? A great athlete like Magic Johnson? Musician, mathematician, teacher, parent?

So to some extent, it comes down to a matter of taste, doesn't it? Maybe what mood I'm in today?

I think the basis of goodness is a commitment to follow the Golden Rule, or maybe even doing it without thinking about it.
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Lindsay
post May 19, 2009, 06:57 PM
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Golden Rule

http://www.jcu.edu/philosophy/gensler/goldrule.htm

21 Versions of the Golden Rule:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc...rg/reciproc.htm

THE PNEUMA--the essential self, source of moral decisions.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/pneuma
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post May 19, 2009, 07:55 PM
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Unfortunately the golden rule has become subjective. The do unto others as you would have them do unto you also means if you are suffering in ignorance and do not want to be further disturbed even if it means elevating you from your ignorance it turns into a codependent relationship. Disturb me not and I will not disturb you leaving all forms of twisted beliefs to be held as sacred as do some believe their beliefs have sacred meaning.

Then what happens, is without doing anything to another, the perceptions of having ones self inconvenienced is often by the another as they practice in their own beliefs freely, that has an effect that is displeasing to the other. Then the rules change where one will insist another not act a particular way so that it will not inconvenience the other reducing freedom of thought feeling and action to the confinement of democratic process.


The standards will then be set by someone who will stand as the authority to the rules.

If you look at the Ten Commandments or the Eight limbs of Yoga they propose that one cannot act accordingly toward the good of all mankind without first elevating themselves beyond separation of race creed or system of egoic values. When one is not attached to wealth or position. When one is not attached to convenience or inconvenience.

It is often an inconvenience to the child to make the child study and to learn and grow, but it is often necessary to push someone beyond complacency and ignorance of how connected all people are. When humanity lives with the separation of itself by allowing a system to perpetuate the haves and have nots, then it might be painful to change the beliefs that perpetuate it.
According to the live and let live belief this would be threatening and not in accord to ones beliefs or opinion of what the Golden rule should be.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Personally I would rather be pushed out of any convenience in complacency and ignorance than to have someone leave me alone because they would not want to be disturbed from their ignorant complacency. This would be compassion coupled with wisdom.

One would have to rise above ones own personal beliefs to live in accord with the flow of humanity which has a course regardless of the personal to act in universal interest that is the accord of universal mind.

Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
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Enki
post May 19, 2009, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 19, 2009, 07:55 PM) *


Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.



I think quoting that phrase out of context may turn into great evil rather than goodness.
---

As I see nobody wants to venture to explore the problem with Healing, instead a steady attempt to move the topic astray is done, as always. Though the questions are well asked as by Lindsay so and by me.
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Joesus
post May 19, 2009, 09:16 PM
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Not out of context, just beyond limited comprehension.

was expected...
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