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> Homosexuality, You tell me your theory, I'll tell you mine...
Culture
post Dec 25, 2006, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 22, 2006, 10:27 PM) *


Granted, it was somewhat judgmental, but note that I specifically did not generalize to say "all homosexuals", but only that they "often appear" such a way. I know homosexuals who have maintained that, for them, everything (every act, every thought) is sexual! Everything being sexual?! Personally speaking, most of my waking thought is not preoccupied with sexually-related thoughts, and all of my hetero friends who I have such similar information over are also not so overly-occupied with sexual matters, so I infer that homosexuals appear to be overly preoccupied with their own sexual issues relative to heterosexuals. My other remarks have similar bases in reality and, specifically, in my actual dealings with, observations of, and conversations with homosexuals. On the plus side, homosexuals are often spirited people who are fun to be around, but their seeming excessive preoccupation with sex overshadows that.

Note that this is not homophobia on my part. It is a recognition that homosexuals appear to spend much more of their waking thought on sex than heterosexuals do, and an implicit disapproval of so much wasted thought when the human mind is capable of much loftier things.


Lucid have you read Symposium? Or explicit mention of Socrates homosexuality in Gorgias, which was universally frowned upon as homosexual relationships after marriage were taboo. I am a heterosexual and admit that I spend quite a bit of time thinking about or having sex. Perhaps it has more to do with peoples sex drive than anything else.

I have found that people with a high sex drive tend to be quite intelligent, I have no evidence for this statement but will conduct a survey with some the gifted students I work with and see what correlation there is for this.
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Technologist
post Dec 25, 2006, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE
Bennet thanks for the post, please do not measure the worth of this forum by one topic of heterosexuals talking about homosexuals. If you take the time to look back at the archives of this forum you will be pleased to find that this is probably the first thread on the matter. I agree however that the energy/time spent on topics such as these could be better spent elsewhere.


uggghh. I'm sorry culture, but the political correctness drives me bonkers.

Is segregation off limits unless I'm black? Or how about female equality?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having dialog that revolves around these topics. Open exchanges usually lead to the uncovering of hidden bias and the betterment of perspectives. Keeping things hush hush is what created most of society's problems in the first place.
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Culture
post Dec 26, 2006, 12:13 AM
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QUOTE
Bennet thanks for the post, please do not measure the worth of this forum by one topic of heterosexuals talking about homosexuals. If you take the time to look back at the archives of this forum you will be pleased to find that this is probably the first thread on the matter. I agree however that the energy/time spent on topics such as these could be better spent elsewhere.


QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 25, 2006, 11:59 PM) *

uggghh. I'm sorry culture, but the political correctness drives me bonkers.

Is segregation off limits unless I'm black? Or how about female equality?

I don't think there's anything wrong with having dialog that revolves around these topics. Open exchanges usually lead to the uncovering of hidden bias and the betterment of perspectives. Keeping things hush hush is what created most of society's problems in the first place.


It has nothing to with political correctness and perhaps I should of stated my intention clearer. Personally I think that energy/time could be better spent on other topics. However as you can see I have taken interest in this topic and am hoping that it produces more interesting dialogue.

On a side note, thanks for the intelligent posts and welcome.
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Technologist
post Dec 26, 2006, 12:18 AM
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Hey culture, it is nice to meet you too.

I think that if everyone avoids the tendency to make this a values debate, then the dialog could serve a useful purpose.

I was actually having some interesting, even contradictory, thoughts on the subject of sexuality and nature vs nurture the other day thanks in part to my dialog with lucid. When I have a chance I am going to post them, but I will have to make sure that they are stated in a ....sensitive manner.
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Culture
post Dec 26, 2006, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 26, 2006, 12:18 AM) *

Hey culture, it is nice to meet you too.

I think that if everyone avoids the tendency to make this a values debate, then the dialog could serve a useful purpose.

I was actually having some interesting, even contradictory, thoughts on the subject of sexuality and nature vs nurture the other day thanks in part to my dialog with lucid. When I have a chance I am going to post them, but I will have to make sure that they are stated in a ....sensitive manner.



The nature/nurture debate is another interesting one. Am keen to see what you post on the matter and have a rational discussion about it.
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Technologist
post Dec 26, 2006, 12:29 AM
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...sensitive manner.


See, I say that I get peeved by PCness, but then I exhibit the very quality that I complain about. doah blink.gif

Nah but there are reasons that I want to be extra careful about the how I approach this next line of thought. Mainly, I don't want the discussion to get derailed by misunderstandings. So let me state up front, I am not making any moral equivalencies between homosexuality and other sexual dispositions. I am only trying to utilize our current understanding of sexuality to shed better light on the nature versus nurture debate.
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Technologist
post Dec 26, 2006, 12:43 AM
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Okay, earlier I posited that there were unified cognitive subsystems that produced sexual preference and that homosexuality was merely indicative of a weakening of the 1:1 correlation between preference and gender. But then I started to think about other sexual preferences such as bestiality and pedophilia. In both of these cases, preference could not be explained by a simple inversion of the preference/gender relationship. The parameters of preference itself were altered, and this effectively destroys my original hypothesis, or at least any chance of an elegant solution which utilizes the concept of preference/gender correspondence.
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Culture
post Dec 26, 2006, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 26, 2006, 12:43 AM) *

Okay, earlier I posited that there were unified cognitive subsystems that produced sexual preference and that homosexuality was merely indicative of a weakening of the 1:1 correlation between preference and gender. But then I started to think about other sexual preferences such as bestiality and pedophilia. In both of these cases, preference could not be explained by a simple inversion of the preference/gender relationship. The parameters of preference itself were altered, and this effectively destroys my original hypothesis, or at least any chance of an elegant solution which utilizes the concept of preference/gender correspondence.



Basically I think theres no simple answer to the question youre asking here .Sexual self-identity consists in the interplay between the individuals self-description of their sexual behaviour and wider society's description of it.

It's worth noting that the brain is not a closed sytem either. Environmental factors effect the neurochemical make-up of our brains, and even behaviours that we engage in are included. Aside from hereditary/genetic predispositions, I suspect that someone who experiences their first (non-private) orgasm through contact with someone of the same sex is more likely to develop a preference to homosexuality. Studies have shown that behaviours associated with orgasm become ingrained, and that our first of a particular experience tends to be formative.

On a side note, I have anecdotally noticed the inverse in some gay women. Traumatic early sexual experiences with men seem to correlate with female homosexuality (although I add the disclaimer that a large number of straight women I have met have had traumatic early sexual experiences with men, it is sad to say). Nothing scientific there, just an individual and possibly biased observation.

It is clear that in order for us to survive as a species our sexual drives need to (as a species) include heterosexual sexual drives (or sexual drives that include heterosexual behaviours). So on some level the communally desirable goal of the continuance of the species includes heterosexual activity as desirable. I suspect that this is a lot of the reason that heterosexuality has developed as a social norm and there is some stigma to the habitual preference of homosexual acts. It is however,a short-sighted view, as reproduction is certainly one of the simple ways to continue the species, but adding other value to a community does so as well. Homosexual behaviour can actually increase bonding between members of a community, and therefore increase community cohesiveness, decrease internal violence and encourage cooperation.

So the value of the behaviours or habitual copulation-partner preferences that someone displays really has nothing to do with whether they were developed through trauma, a warm and nurturing learning envioronment, or anything in the middle. The value is measured by the result of the behaviour or habits. Once we know this, we don't have to shy away from the facts of the matter because some nurture vs. nature arguments are sold as 'proving' that gay people should be locked up in loonie bins. They are simply picking bad criteria for calling something a disorder.
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trojan_libido
post Dec 26, 2006, 05:47 AM
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I thought I'd add my bit. I class myself as bi-sexual, the reason being - I'm not into beating myself up over my own thoughts. I had an experience or urge in youth that turned my world upside down. I knew that the only thing that had happened was I'd challenged my own social constructs and made myself "different".

QUOTE
lucid_dream: My own view is that homosexual tendencies serve no function and are irrelevant within the bigger picture. Homosexuals often appear overly-preoccupied with their own sexual and identity issues, are often narcissistic hedonists, and rarely contribute anything of significance to society.

I believe there is a high correlation with population density and homosexual behaviour. I also believe that intelligence is a factor. It seems that being able to think outside the box often is a catalyst, as is the global information exchange called the web. In history we had the Greeks who actually used homosexuality as a social norm - male family friends would take an adolescent and show him the way, teach him. I think now pornography is doing that job. Also in history we required strong people to work the land when we began agriculutral pursuits, china is a good example. This meant a lot of population, and therefore heterosexual sex.

QUOTE
Rhymer: I feel the greatest sadness for homosexuals, those trapped in wheelchairs and alll the other 'innocent' humans who are afflicted in ways which I am certain Nature did not intend!


I love this arguement. What about the lifers in prison who take anything they can get? This is clearly an environmentally driven action, unless they were gay before they were arrested. If its against nature, then why do so many animals have non-productive sex? They are not consciously deciding because they have no conscious thought (i dont believe this, but its an idea that seems to be the norm). Nature is therefore the driving force and so every single action within this universe, good or bad, is never against nature. Rhymers post seems a westernised religious statement in my own opinion.

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maximus242: Was Leonardo homosexual?

I think he probably was, again because of the neurotic/autistic behavior and his intelligence.

QUOTE
Technologist: Homosexuality may have sibling factor. Men have an increased chance of being gay if they have several older brothers from same mom, study says.

I have lots of older brothers who were never there when i was young. I also spent a lot of time with my mother as my father worked on oil rigs. Does this account for my own sexuality? Unlikely but possible.

QUOTE
Bennet: We are everyone and everywhere including your kids, your parents, your teachers, your doctors, your government, your mechanic - everywhere and everyone.

I recall an event a friend saw. Some very camp gay lad walking down the street gets torrents of abuse thrown at him from a group of teenagers. Whilst this is happening, a huge bald biker type runs towards them and literally kicks seven shades of sh*t out of the lad while shouting "I'm gay, got a problem".
lol, they should remember your words Bennet!

My opinion is this demonising has to be focussed on something and its culturally dependant. I'm sure there is also a biological factor with the careful balancing of testosterone and oestrogen (sp?). I personally do not like camp guys, or gays that grab womens boobs in front of you just because they're gay. I think this is still my own prejudice however. I think population and intelligence play a factor in homosexuality. I believe that not limiting yourself to cultural norms and thinking outside the box are virtues we are blessed to have. I believe in an individuals human rights.
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lucid_dream
post Dec 26, 2006, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE(Culture @ Dec 25, 2006, 11:10 PM) *
Perhaps it has more to do with peoples sex drive than anything else.

I have found that people with a high sex drive tend to be quite intelligent, I have no evidence for this statement but will conduct a survey with some the gifted students I work with and see what correlation there is for this.


I doubt it's a question of sex drive since the homosexuals in question claimed that everything was sexual to them. This is not high sex drive, this is aberration. You can have sex several times each day and still not think about it most of the time, meaning that you can have a high sex drive but not be a prisoner to it by letting it completely control your life. Just like we eat food several times each day but do not think everything we do is about food. Granted, this may be more about sex addiction than homosexuality, but based on my limited sampling of homosexuals, sex addiction seems to be particularly prominent among them relative to heteros. Why is that?

Btw, I would agree that people with higher libidos tend to be more intelligent, mainly because this sexual energy can manifest itself in many different non-sexual ways. But this does not imply that people with high libidos just think about sex all day or interpret all their actions sexually.


QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Dec 26, 2006, 05:47 AM) *
QUOTE
maximus242: Was Leonardo homosexual?
I think he probably was, again because of the neurotic/autistic behavior and his intelligence.

Get real. Intelligence, neuroticism, and autism have nothing to do with homosexuality. For you to think that Leonardo was gay because he was intelligent, neurotic and/or autistic is not just wrong, it's irresponsible.

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trojan_libido
post Dec 27, 2006, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 26, 2006, 11:50 PM) *

Get real. Intelligence, neuroticism, and autism have nothing to do with homosexuality. For you to think that Leonardo was gay because he was intelligent, neurotic and/or autistic is not just wrong, it's irresponsible.

Why is my opinion on Leonardo wrong and irresponsible? I said in my opinion, and you should get real yourself. Why should my own thinking be irresponsible? If Leonardo was gay would that destroy a childhood hero for you? Because it makes no difference either way to me.
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dinnie
post Jan 02, 2007, 03:57 AM
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I haven't read this thread post by post. What I am posting might have seen covered, and in that case accept my apologies.

Allan Pease (the guy who writes on Body Language) has authored a book Why men don't listen and women can't read maps?. It's an interesting book that explores the biological basis of difference between male and female behavior. As opposed to the psychological Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, Pease's book concentrates on the physical differences in the male-female brain and bases the psychological differences on the former. There's a whole chapter on Homosexuality. If you read the book, you would know that homosexuality is very much a biological phenomenon. It has something to do with the abnormal hormonal secretion.

I'll see if I can find any links/studies supporting the argument.

I'd highly recommend that book to anyone interested in learning more about Mars/Venus/Homosexual issues.
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post Jan 02, 2007, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(dinnie @ Jan 02, 2007, 11:57 AM) *
I haven't read this thread post by post. What I am posting might have seen covered, and in that case accept my apologies.

Allan Pease (the guy who writes on Body Language) has authored a book Why men don't listen and women can't read maps?. It's an interesting book that explores the biological basis of difference between male and female behavior. As opposed to the psychological Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, Pease's book concentrates on the physical differences in the male-female brain and bases the psychological differences on the former. There's a whole chapter on Homosexuality. If you read the book, you would know that homosexuality is very much a biological phenomenon. It has something to do with the abnormal hormonal secretion.

I'll see if I can find any links/studies supporting the argument.

I'd highly recommend that book to anyone interested in learning more about Mars/Venus/Homosexual issues.
There is a danger here dinnie. And that danger is illustrated in the very first sentence you said - that you haven't read this thread post by post. You MUST read everything and anything and not just take one item of information as the be all and end all. The book by Allan Pease is one source of information, but there are thousands of articles/learned papers/books etc on this topic. And yet you say "If you read the book, you would know that homosexuality is very much a biological phenomenon. It has something to do with the abnormal hormonal secretion." as if this was the final word. The worst thing is, the author's qualifications are "decades of experience both in the entertainment industry and now with our Speakers Bureau - http://www.bodylanguagetraining.com/peaset...about.htm". What would he know about science and psychology, that are but two of the vital disciplines underpinning the cause of most human behaviour? Stop surfing, and get reading!

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Enki
post Jan 03, 2007, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 21, 2006, 10:12 AM) *

How does one reconcile the existence of homosexual tendencies with a naturalistic framework?

After I hear from a few of this forum's participants I will provide my perspective - along with why I think this issue reveals something of great significance.


quid pro quo cool.gif


I guess that homosexuality as sexuality overall is a very complex phenomenon and cannot be explained or described by few words or in one book.

Certainly one always can try to explain why some men love men. Homosexuality is a derivative of world structure. There is nothing to reconcile one with another. Homosexuality is a natural complex phenomenon.

Maybe you will restate your question?

I agree that the phenomenon is very significant as it plays important role in world politics and human culture. And possibly plays some specific role in neuroscience and possibly is directly related with specific reorganization of mind .
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maximus242
post Jan 03, 2007, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 05:42 PM) *

even if it exists in some species that lack "culture", that doesn't imply that human homosexuality is not, in part, determined by culture. It's like arguing that echolocation exists in some species that lack culture, therefore humans echolocate. That's the problem with specious cross-species comparisons!

Looking at the issue of human homosexuality, and speaking with homosexuals, it's hard not to reach the conclusion that there are cultural and environmental factors at work, which doesn't necessarily rule out a genetic component, but only underscores the premise that not everything is black or white and that often there are complex interactions involved which defy attempts at over-simplification.


Theres no doubt in my mind that sociology has a influence on homosexuality. Orangitangs however have also shown homosexual tendancies. I think its a mix of sociology and psychology, prehaps a bit of biology too... I dont think we are going to find one single reason which nicely wraps up homosexuality. Instead I think we have bits and pieces of a puzzle that fit together and make up the origins of homosexuality.
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Casey
post Jan 04, 2007, 09:39 AM
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Most current views of homosexuality regard it as a combination of nature and nuture.

Quite a few of the compelling psychological arguments have been brough up already.

As for biology, Wikipedia has a brief summary of a few common biological theories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

Just a few comments:

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 21, 2006, 12:47 PM) *

Homosexuality occurs widely in the animal kingdom ...

That's not exactly true. It does occur, but it's certainly not widespread.

QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 26, 2006, 02:18 AM) *

I think that if everyone avoids the tendency to make this a values debate, then the dialog could serve a useful purpose.

The value laden comments are not utterly useless. They can still teach a bit about human behavior and society (a bit off topic maybe).

Most posts on this forum seem to be fairly unbiases, yet I swear this topic has more value-laden comments than any other I've read. What is it about homosexuality that makes it so taboo? I really am curious why this subject strikes such a strong chord with so many people.

QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 26, 2006, 05:50 PM) *

Get real. Intelligence, neuroticism, and autism have nothing to do with homosexuality.

Well, that's not exactly true either. There are actually strong correlations for intelligence, neuroticism, and homosexuality.

Correlations say that intelligent individuals are more likely to be homosexual. However, I believe it's quite possible that highly intelligent individuals are simply more likely to admit homosexuality. So, the actual incidence rates of homosexuality may not be correlated with intelligence. Yet, of course, correlation does not imply causation...

QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 12:55 PM) *

Heterosexuality leads to propagation of the species and hence fits into the big picture. Homosexuality does not, and only produces sexual gratification for a select few "homosexuals".

Be careful not to oversimplify evolution and natural selection.

Here's a scenario to illustrate the complexity:

Hypothesis
It's quite possible that homosexuals are the byproduct of evolution/genetics.
Maybe sexuality is influenced by a spectrum of genes (polygenetic inheritance). Well, that could easily produce a spectrum of phenotypes ranging from totally heterosexual to utterly homosexual and everything in between. Psychological factors could then expand this spectrum.

And when I say spectrum, please do not think of the Bell curve. Not all natural traits assume this ratio of incidence.

Selection Factors
What if bisexuals are favored because of their ability to "bond" with their peers. No selection of homosexuals (or heterosexuals) would occur.
Of course, we know that society applies selective pressure on heterosexuals.
Well, these two selection forces may very well oppose each other.
Yet, bisexuals could (and do) appear heterosexual so as to avoid the societal pressure.

What does this mess lead to?
  • A large proportion of heterosexuals
  • A large proportion of bisexuals functioning as heterosexual but passing on homosexual "genes"
  • A small population of homosexuals
See how complex that can be? That's even a simplified version. (It's probably more complex than simple polygenic inheritance.)

My personal opinion:
I'm inclined to believe that the underpinnings of homosexuality are biologically based. But I also believe that environment plays a huge role.
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE(Casey @ Jan 04, 2007, 09:39 AM) *

Most posts on this forum seem to be fairly unbiases, yet I swear this topic has more value-laden comments than any other I've read. What is it about homosexuality that makes it so taboo? I really am curious why this subject strikes such a strong chord with so many people.


Possibly because we all are still pondering over lost potential opportunities in love. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
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post Jan 04, 2007, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 11:36 AM) *

QUOTE(Casey @ Jan 04, 2007, 09:39 AM) *

Most posts on this forum seem to be fairly unbiases, yet I swear this topic has more value-laden comments than any other I've read. What is it about homosexuality that makes it so taboo? I really am curious why this subject strikes such a strong chord with so many people.


Possibly because we all are still pondering over lost potential opportunities in love. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

LMAO!!!!!!!!!
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Hey Hey
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE(Casey @ Jan 04, 2007, 05:39 PM) *
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 21, 2006, 12:47 PM) *
Homosexuality occurs widely in the animal kingdom ...
That's not exactly true. It does occur, but it's certainly not widespread.
homosexuality that's been documented in over 450 different vertebrate species ( http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/t...mal_kingdom.php )
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:18 PM
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But if without jokes the homosexuality is an interesting subject and if people wish we can pass to case studies.

I have a good scheme. Imagine that you and David Backham, accidentally got trapped into underground secret penthouse of Pentagon prepared for the national elite for a case of nuclear war, so you have there everything to live for many decades, even Jacuzzi. It will take about 7 years for diggers to dig a shaft and liberate David and you. The question is: is there chances that besides of learning how to play football you may have sexual relations with David? In case if we replace David by Justin Timberlake will the chances of sexual relations increase? Then in your imagination you can replace David and Justin by different people and I guess that possibly some will find the very person with high probability of "success".

Thus we will be able to study influence of the Environment on development of homosexuality in adults.

Interesting scheme is not it?
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post Jan 04, 2007, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:18 PM) *

But if without jokes the homosexuality is an interesting subject and if people wish we can pass to case studies.

I have a good scheme. Imagine that you and David Backham, accidentally got trapped into underground secret penthouse of Pentagon prepared for the national elite in case of nuclear war, so you have there everything to live for many decades, even Jacuzzi. It will take about 7 year for diggers to dig a shaft and liberate David and you. The question is: is there chances that besides of learning how to play football you may have sexual relations with David? In case if we replace David by Justin Timberlake will the chances of sexual relations increase? Then in your imagination you can replace David and Justin by different people and I guess that possibly some will find the very person with high probability of "success".

Thus we will be able to study influence of the Environment on development of homosexuality in adults.

Interesting scheme is not it?

Stop it Enki! You're gonna kill me, man!!! Oh my god! somebody call an ambulance!!! Who needs the comedy channel when I got Enki!!! LMAO!!!
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:21 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:18 PM) *

But if without jokes the homosexuality is an interesting subject and if people wish we can pass to case studies.

I have a good scheme. Imagine that you and David Backham, accidentally got trapped into underground secret penthouse of Pentagon prepared for the national elite in case of nuclear war, so you have there everything to live for many decades, even Jacuzzi. It will take about 7 year for diggers to dig a shaft and liberate David and you. The question is: is there chances that besides of learning how to play football you may have sexual relations with David? In case if we replace David by Justin Timberlake will the chances of sexual relations increase? Then in your imagination you can replace David and Justin by different people and I guess that possibly some will find the very person with high probability of "success".

Thus we will be able to study influence of the Environment on development of homosexuality in adults.

Interesting scheme is not it?

Stop it Enki! You're gonna kill me, man!!! Oh my god! somebody call an ambulance!!! Who needs the comedy channel when I got Enki!!! LMAO!!!


It is a serious topic, we are not joking here. Really.

BTW have you imagined somebody?
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:32 PM
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I forgot to say, that sometimes the central heating in the above-described penthouse can be automatically switched off for a week, so you should heat each other.

I am sure that that significant environmental shift will definitely increase chances of establishing long term sexual relations with David and/or Justin.
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Casey
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:42 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jan 04, 2007, 02:07 PM) *

QUOTE(Casey @ Jan 04, 2007, 05:39 PM) *
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 21, 2006, 12:47 PM) *
Homosexuality occurs widely in the animal kingdom ...
That's not exactly true. It does occur, but it's certainly not widespread.
homosexuality that's been documented in over 450 different vertebrate species

"About 57,739 species of vertebrates have been described."

That's taken from Wikipedia because I'm too lazy to search through all of my Biology books. The figure sounds about right though.

Granted, I doubt all of those have been observed too closely. I'm just saying, I didn't want everyone to assume most had observable homosexual tendencies.

I must admit, 450+ is higher than I expected.
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code buttons
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:43 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:27 PM) *

BTW have you imagined somebody?

I grew up in the ghetto, Enki. So I've always have to watch my back, if that's what you mean. But, from my perspective, you're either a homo or you're not. And I just can't fathem my self being a homo. How can you trade for such beautiful gift from the gods such as I consider women to be (the pretty ones, that is)? They are the perfect compliment for man. At least for me. David Bechem or whoever, they're just competition to me. I don't see them in any other way. I don't even know why you mention names, as they are just guys to me. Competition, that's all. What about you?
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:27 PM) *

BTW have you imagined somebody?

I grew up in the ghetto, Enki. So I've always have to watch my back, if that's what you mean. But, from my perspective, you're either a homo or you're not. And I just can't fathem my self being a homo. How can you trade for such beautiful gift from the gods such as I consider women to be (the pretty ones, that is)? They are the perfect compliment for man. At least for me. David Bechem or whoever, they're just competition to me. I don't see them in any other way. I don't even know why you mention names, as they are just guys to me. Competition, that's all.



You see, you immediately entered into defense mode. And then passed to counterattack mode.

Few magic words and the mechanism automatically triggers in the brain.

Where is the Freedom of Will (!!!?) , hehehehehehehe. tongue.gif

QUOTE
What about you?


Ouhhh... I love all human beings. tongue.gif biggrin.gif
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post Jan 04, 2007, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:49 PM) *

You see, you immediately entered into defense mode. And then passed to counterattack mode.
Few magic words and the mechanism automatically triggers in the brain.
Where is the Freedom of Will, hehehehehehehe.
QUOTE
What about you?

Ohhh. I love all human beings. tongue.gif biggrin.gif Jesus told me. You know.

If you're implying that I'm a homo, then you know something that I don't. I've considered the thought many times in the past, especially since I was a victim of child abuse at a very early age. But I just never went down that road. It doesn't appeal to me. But I must point out that I don't hold any resentment or hatred towards a certain kind of human beings just from my life experiences. Every bump on the road has made me stronger as a person.
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 01:08 PM
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As I see we slowly passed to the demonic mode of discussion. Anyway.

The example of the scheme I brought above shows that one can invent a special scheme for human imagination in such a way to detect the neurological situation in the brain of a particular person and reconstruct it without serious efforts.

My private practice shows, that this approach helps to "cure" homophobia, anti-Semitism, neurotic-radicalism and complexes in behavior.

I think that it is linguistically possible to transpose a homosexual into a heterosexual and vice versa. I understand that it is very brave declaration, but I think that it is possible.
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Jan 04, 2007, 01:01 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 04, 2007, 12:49 PM) *

You see, you immediately entered into defense mode. And then passed to counterattack mode.
Few magic words and the mechanism automatically triggers in the brain.
Where is the Freedom of Will, hehehehehehehe.
QUOTE
What about you?

Ohhh. I love all human beings. tongue.gif biggrin.gif Jesus told me. You know.

If you're implying that I'm a homo, then you know something that I don't. I've considered the thought many times in the past, especially since I was a victim of child abuse at a very early age. But I just never went down that road. It doesn't appeal to me. But I must point out that I don't hold any resentment or hatred towards a certain kind of human beings just from my life experiences. Every bump on the road has made me stronger as a person.


I am not implying, just calm down please! I am sorry that you misunderstood the joke!
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Enki
post Jan 04, 2007, 01:15 PM
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You did not understand the key idea of what I have written!!!
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