Science is the best religion exposing the existence of God to every ordinary human being on this earth including atheist. Options

[Joesus]

You're suggesting your Trust level must come from an outside source.
At some point you need to get in touch with your Self. Once one opens themself to this, then the Self becomes manifest. Until then you set conditions of what exists in your mind while you live in a house that is built on a foundation of disbelief.

[Flex]

You're suggesting your Trust level must come from an outside source.
At some point you need to get in touch with your Self. Once one opens themself to this, then the Self becomes manifest. Until then you set conditions of what exists in your mind while you live in a house that is built on a foundation of disbelief.

I would have to say that s/he is suggesting that trust comes from some generally accepted fact based around actual quantitative measurements rather than opinion~ Once again, an economists approach (note that there is no such thing to economists as causality, only correlation)

[Enki]

Without such experiments how is one to progress? We need to start somewhere.

Prior to starting such research a Moral Codex must be developed, otherwise the ‘nature’ will defend its secrets in very specific way.

[Enki]

Without such experiments how is one to progress? We need to start somewhere.

One can always learn from one who has made the journey.

And one should 'keep' in secret that he/she has secrets to 'keep'.

[Enki]

Without such experiments how is one to progress? We need to start somewhere.

One can always learn from one who has made the journey.

How do you trust that one? And I want to scientifically analyse these phenomenon, proving them statistically and not leave them in some vague personal mystical terms.

Do not trust anyone in that respect, even yourself. Spiritual experiences are the most uncertain I guess. The data cannot be verified. There are no real criteria of truth developed up to now (but it does not mean that such do not exist at all). Direct experimental method does not work, because spiritual experiments do not yield verifiable results. Even if someone talks to you from outer world (if such exists of course) you cannot be sure whether one says truth or is lying.

Well, e.g. I suggested very peaceful way. You can use the Pillows experiments I once suggested on this forum. It is the safest experimental variant. No drugs, no meditation, just sleeping, recording dreams on paper in the morning, systemizing data, analyzing, getting surprised. By conducting that peaceful experiment together with one participant (who prior to sleeping must not know about the pillows colors change during each week [if you have time you can search that topic on forum]) you will come to interesting simple conclusions related with the ‘brain’ functioning. Then by applying simple Physics of Sir Isaac Newton about the light colors and simple knowledge about the electromagnetic waves in the visible diapason you will come to more interesting conclusions. Thus, studding the nature by simple, not expensive, and peaceful ways you can discover more than self assured guys from the well funded ‘secret’ laboratories worldwide who dare to think that if they conduct their research in underground laboratories, where rays of light do not penetrate at all, where some walls are made of dark silicon, nobody can see what a hell they are investigating there.

Proper scientist always should show respect to the object of his studies and should not use aggressive methods while studying the nature. Mankind suffered much because of the numerous Dr. Fausts. The way of Dr. Faust is the wrong way.

Those with pure hearth and curious mind who seek can find the Invisible College. Those who strive to make holes in its walls by canons will face the wrath of the Invisible Army.

[Joesus]

There are no secrets, only discoveries not yet found.

[Enki]

There are no secrets, only discoveries not yet found.

You are quite wrong. Some secrets are well protected and will be protected!

[Joesus]

Only by those who believe their secrets are personal.

Truth is Universal, anything can be known, but not everyone is interested.

[Enki]

Only by those who believe their secrets are personal.

Hahahahahahhah. )))))))))))))))))))

Truth is Universal, anything can be known, but not everyone is interested.

I fully agree with you Joesus.

[trojan_libido]

Curiosity and passion for the truth are the best spirituality for anyone.

Flight is the manifestation of the proverbial carrot, the feather symbol in Egypt was Universal Order and Ultimate Truth. Then the feathered serpent of Quetzacoatl in South America was revered. We then used a feather to convey the Truth as we began to express ideas in symbols and words. Later and we use it in marksmanship with the bow and arrow. Shooting a target is like a zen/tai chi technique, taking account of invisble forces like wind and gravity.

Now visualise the archery target. The target is remarkably like the ancient symbol for God/Ra - a circle with a dot at its centre (http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/268.html). We try to ascertain truth by shooting arrows towards God, the closer we get the more in-tune with the action and the closer to the Truth we are - you get more points! The practice of archery is now just the way the world is, but I find it intriguing how similar in meaning to the feather of Egypt and pen of Literature.

Flying in airplanes to suit the nature of commerce and the fight for oil is the source of all the animosity between the Western world and Middle Eastern countries. We've been exerting control over the resources covertly and the backlash was 9/11. Its not a coincidence that Saddam set fire to over 200 oil fields and Osama's terrorists are focussed on air traffic targets. The feathered serpent symbology is still present.

However I do not call this force of curiosity God - I only use it for effect. It is merely the low level patterns within the nature reality repeating, on many abstract levels. Our nature is to find more and more truth to enable us to get rich, materially, spiritually or experiencially. So science isn't the best religion, its only a significant area for passion and truth seeking.

[Joesus]

There is a story told by a man who claims to be the grandson of one of the American Indians who were camped out in the desert when the alleged UFO crashed outside of Roswell in 1947.
He tells a story about his grandfathers group saving a survivor of the crash and in gratitude the survivor tells the group about his origins.
To make a long story short the story describes his race and the other races which dominate this part of the Universe and their rise to power both spiritually and scientifically.
The story speaks of the divisions in 4 major races of humanoids having evolved from different species, similar to the theory that humans evolved from primates.
OF the 4 races, one evolved from insects, one from mammals, one from reptiles and the other from birds.
The predominately aggressive races are the ones evolved from reptiles and mammals, the insect humanoids being right behind the others in their need for power and the ones decended from the birds being the species that has remained spiritually dedicated to enlightenment.
The 4 races having evolved technologically eventually found each other in the vastness of space began to exchange technology but when the universe began to shrink as their lust for power increased they began to fight for space.

The story tells of their genetic creation of Humans on this planet from the DNA of the 4 races and the DNA of the existent primate species found on this planet when they came here to mine the planet for materials to support their technology.

The keynote of the story is the idea that the genetic scientist responsible for creating the DNA coctail was instructed to create a subserviant race simply to work the mines. The Scientist feeling a bit more compassionate than the ruling class decided to add the ingrediant of the feather or the bird race, to give humans the ability to be introspective, rather than being like robots.
This ability is the foundation for spirituality according to the 4 races even tho the most aggressive didn't find any use for it.
The more aggressive of the 4 races were simply interested in scientific knowledge to expand their understanding of the Universe which would give them more power and advantage in the control of the Universe, to them spirituality meant weakness as they had no concern for anyone but themselves.


Whether the story was or is true is not what I found interesting but if it was true what I thought about was that any explaination of the creation of life and the Universe has to include the essence of the Universe.

Spiritualists describe the source of the Universes as God. Limitless, unbounded, Formless, coming into form, moving through form, coming out of form, without a beginning or an end.

Scientists might describe the source of the Universes as Energy. Limitless, unbounded, Formless, coming into form, moving through form, coming out of form, without a beginning or an end.

Defining the universe and separating it into definitions never really separates it from itself and so to try and separate science from spirituality is like trying to separate water from an ice cube.

The story is like many of the stories told by the Sages of the Past and the present. In the analogy presented it points to the unbounded consciousness that exists in all things and the reflection of that consciousness in the manifestation of life, particularly human life, or the image of God being unrestricted thought and manifestation, the result or inherent nature of the unmanifest consciousness.

[trojan_libido]

There is definately a correlation with flight and the feather and the sacred symbols. The holy spirit is a white dove for instance. Thanks for that post joesus, its one example i didn't know about and clearly shows that the nature of our driving force is symbolised by flight.

Oh, and Merry Xmas all!

[Enki]

The keynote of the story is the idea that the genetic scientist responsible for creating the DNA coctail was instructed to create a subserviant race simply to work the mines. The Scientist feeling a bit more compassionate than the ruling class decided to add the ingrediant of the feather or the bird race, to give humans the ability to be introspective, rather than being like robots.
This ability is the foundation for spirituality according to the 4 races even tho the most aggressive didn't find any use for it.
The more aggressive of the 4 races were simply interested in scientific knowledge to expand their understanding of the Universe which would give them more power and advantage in the control of the Universe, to them spirituality meant weakness as they had no concern for anyone but themselves.

Very interesting and funny story indeed Joesus.

Let me invent details:
Then possibly he tried to help humans to become independent race from the reptiles, insects, birds and mammals and dominate like equals all over the Universe and was punished for that like Prometheus being chained to Caucasian rocks or like Azrail put down in great hole in desert and a great sharp rock covers the hole so that light do not drop its rays upon his face, or just decided (or was forced) to live among men (feel himself like man) and help them to grow up suffering their destiny along with them? So now we understand who are the birds.
There was a great war between different races, they bombed cities created by men in Mesopotamia, some of them created world religions to retard or facilitate human development in "right" directions.
One of the parties built the great Pyramid for special purposes.
And possibly reptiles made a special contract with Vatican, which Robert describes in one of his books, so that mankind progress slowly until someone will return over the clouds with great power and will arrange here a bloodbath - "proper" punishment.
So possibly they telepathically control people not permitting them to progress in accelerated mode.
Moon is an artificial object made in such a way that we do not see its other side, and it intentionally looks the same size as the sun so humans be misled and loose several thousand years in their understanding of what world is. But the Great Scientist with great efforts, crushing horrific resistance helped them to understand what they are. Very funny indeed.
A nice freemasonic tale which could born only in the United States of America.

And possibly the true God himself had interfered in all these processes and punished the mammals, the birds, the reptiles and the insects for cruelty they exposed upon mankind. And that scientist new and knows that God personally very well, and up to now he is much cleverer than those birds, mammals, reptiles and insects (so well described in Men in Black movie).

For me one is clear, man is the sexiest creature, so the scientist described in that tale had a good taste and feeling of proportions and created a cute creature.
You know birds, mammals, insects, reptiles - a zoo. Hahahahahahahah )))))))

I always knew that Archangel Michael has birds' brains. (Mikol I am joking)

Birds- Angels & Demons
Reptiles-Dragons
Mammals- Trolls, goblins, gnomes
Insects – Elves

I feel I should earn money by telling such stories or start to sell lost keys of freemasonry to masons, maybe that will help them to become trully free?

You know I want to buy a dish washing machine.