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> Every man, woman and child is agnostic
Hey Hey
post Dec 05, 2006, 11:04 PM
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Technically, every man woman and child is agnostic, there are no theists or atheists. We can believe we know, but in the true sense of what it is to know something, the existence of God is not like that. I can say there is a cup on the table and I can say I there is a God but the existence of the cup is 'knowable' (with caveats for my ability to interpret my senses). I think this was one of Mark Vernon's points.

Justin, High Wycombe http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6199716.stm
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lucid_dream
post Dec 06, 2006, 09:40 PM
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the cup on a table is an object, a mental representation. God, defined as that which contains all objects and mental representations, is not. To the extent that our consciousness is not solely comprised of objects or mental representations, but that we have direct access to something greater, thus do we know God directly.

You can still deny that God exists, or not recognize God as such because It is omnipresent, like the story of the fish oblivious to water because it is everywhere.

To label such a view as pantheism or panpsychism does not do it justice since it is the experience, the consciousness, that counts, and not the words we use to denote them and which are oft distorted, conflated, confused or otherwise misinterpreted.

So I guess you could say that, technically, everyone is God-intoxicated, whether they know it or not.

Even those who proclaim to believe in "God" will often form no clear conception and have no direct knowledge of what they believe in but rather choose to go by "faith", which is oblivious to reason, and thus the preferred path of the bumpkin and the ignorant.

God is an ocean. We are stuck on the surface most of the time, and many see little sparkles of light on the surface and proclaim that to be God and that they are true believers, but all they believe in is an illusion, a lie unworthy of That which contains all. The ocean is big enough to contain all the religions and falsehoods of the world, and these are but an infinitesimal speck compared to the vastness of the truth.

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Hey Hey
post Dec 07, 2006, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 07, 2006, 05:40 AM) *

Even those who proclaim to believe in "God" will often form no clear conception and have no direct knowledge of what they believe in but rather choose to go by "faith", which is oblivious to reason, and thus the preferred path of the bumpkin and the ignorant.

The whole thing is faith without the evidence.
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Hey Hey   Every man, woman and child is agnostic   Dec 05, 2006, 11:04 PM
Lindsay   Knowledge--of the kind that is always open to ques...   Dec 06, 2006, 08:12 AM
Trip like I do   I would think it is somewhere in the middle actual...   Dec 06, 2006, 08:19 AM
Lindsay   I wrote the following comment to the article from ...   Dec 06, 2006, 10:36 AM
Rick   Technically, every man woman and child is agnosti...   Dec 06, 2006, 03:07 PM
Lindsay   Technically, every man woman and child is agnost...   Dec 06, 2006, 07:15 PM
Hey Hey   I can accept the fact that I live on this planet e...   Dec 06, 2006, 09:33 PM
Rick   Now, if I define GØD and existence--that is, phys...   Dec 07, 2006, 01:50 PM
Culture   Technically, every man woman and child is agnosti...   Dec 06, 2006, 09:35 PM
lucid_dream   the cup on a table is an object, a mental represen...   Dec 06, 2006, 09:40 PM
Hey Hey   Even those who proclaim to believe in "God...   Dec 07, 2006, 01:49 AM
Culture   Even those who proclaim to believe in "God...   Dec 07, 2006, 02:16 AM
Hey Hey   [quote name='lucid_dream' post='73042...   Dec 07, 2006, 02:35 AM
Joesus   Well said.   Dec 06, 2006, 10:31 PM
rhymer   A bit off topic, I wonder if anyone has declared w...   Dec 07, 2006, 01:40 PM
Lindsay   Rick, you quote me, "GØD = existence." ...   Dec 07, 2006, 04:30 PM
Rick   Rick, at this point, I understand that you are NOT...   Dec 07, 2006, 05:06 PM
Hey Hey   I will add: GØD is TOTAL (physical, mental and s...   Dec 10, 2006, 04:12 PM
Flex   Why exactly would humans be the most important nat...   Dec 07, 2006, 05:12 PM
Rick   Given that a world with humans requires the Sun, I...   Dec 07, 2006, 05:17 PM
Flex   Given that a world with humans requires the Sun, ...   Dec 07, 2006, 05:23 PM
Hey Hey   Finally, there is a practical reason for preferri...   Dec 08, 2006, 03:08 AM
Jellybean2   An agnostic was once defined: An Athiest searching...   May 23, 2007, 07:51 AM


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