GØD as the Universal Wrapper--Introducing Epitheism and the TOE, --GØD and all the Sciences, including psychology and pneumatology Options

[code buttons]

CB, you said nothing about whether or not you resent having to take personal responsibility for things, or about your fear of the future. Does this still hold true?

I resent nothing/no one. The future is a concept. I only fear that which I/we cannot control. Therefore I find it of utmost importance that we reach the level of understanding that may allow us to control reality. So, I fear time. Not the future.

[Joesus]

In my opinion, GØD is ALL there is to experience. Naturally, I experience GØD in others and in myself. This helps me be compassionate, and I expect others to be likewise.

When someone doesn't meet your expectations do you still experience God in them? If you experience God in everything then why would you have any expectations of God to be or act as you would choose to act?
Does your GØD make mistakes or act inapropriately?

[Lindsay]

...I resent nothing/no one. The future is a concept. I only fear that which I/we cannot control. Therefore, I find it of utmost importance that we reach the level of understanding that may allow us to control reality.

So, I fear time. Not the future.

CB, so now you tell me: "So, I fear time. Not the future." This prompts me to ask: How sure are you of your own opinions?

BTW, I make no claim that I can control past, present or future--that is, time. However, I feel fairly confident that I have a working relationship with All that IS, GØD. BTW, I do not have a god/God. GØD has me.

[Ignorance Is Eternal]

I'm sorry to intrude, but I'd like to ask what the point of evangelising as a panentheist is? You do it all too often. One might say you are a rather flat character. I am very interested in the homeostasis of all things; the network of all matter, and I could say with confidence that several others on this site are as well. It is true that your opinion is quite unique and well-established, but in all due respect, the repetition of your beliefs seems a little excessive.

[Hey Hey]

However, I feel fairly confident that I have a working relationship with All that IS, GØD. BTW, I do not have a god/God. GØD has me.

Lindsay, you try so hard to explore every and any portal through which you might tempt people to join your philosophy, but in the end you still have to answer openly and honestly to YOUR established congregation whether you believe in God (God, not GØD here), whether you worship God, whether you believe that there is a heaven that you hope to expire to (a long way off, I hope) and whether you believe that Jesus rose from the dead (I already know you believe there was a Jesus from other posts you have made). And the list of whethers is actually very long, but you might respond to the ones above for now. It is no good attempting to divert or confuse through semantics, as there will always be someone sharp enough to understand what you are doing. Then your methods are devalued. If you believe in God and would like to convert others, then state this and give it your best shot.

Your background suggests that you have the same fundamental beliefs as millions of believers, particularly Christians. I cannot believe that you would now turn your back on these and say they are wrong or misguided.

Please clarify.

[Lindsay]

I'm sorry to intrude...

No need to apologize, Ignorance..., intrude all you want. I enjoy it when people add their comments and ask critical and analytical questions. It is only when I post threads and comments which get zero responses (comments/clicks) that I feel bad.

Now to your rhetorical, and not quite clear, question: "...I'd like to ask what the point of evangelising as a panentheist is?"

Are you saying that telling good news--which is what "evangelism" means--is a bad thing to do?

You write: "One might say you are a rather flat character."

I have been called many things during my career, but this is the first time I have ever been called a "flat character". Please define. If I found this thread "flat" I would not bother reading it. Keep in mind that this whole section is about theology, not pharmacology.

BTW, you have probably heard the old one about the difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity".

Ignorance is curable.

[Joesus]

I feel fairly confident that I have a working relationship with All that IS, GØD. I do not have a god/God. GØD has me.

I and my Father are not One. Yet....
This is not humility Lindsay, it's ignorance. It's duality, and ignoring the True relationship in the following of processes in mental determiination. A best guess, a collection of politically/spiritually correct ideas of the new age. To know of God in relative terms but not knowing God.

It is reflected in what is perceived as an attempt to sway others, but at a deeper level in the need to convince yourself intellectually through the building and compilation of factual information and intelligent resources that do not come from you but are seen by you as relative.
Saying what is true for you and attaching a link to back your belief only degrades the picture you are trying to create that it is coming from you, lived by you and known by you.

Being fairly confident is not the same as knowing. Not being totally objective means you live your life based on beliefs subject to changing perceptions of yourself and your GØD, which exceeds your ability to unite with it in wholeness. Unification of ideas creates a false sense of Truth but is easily shaken by that which is greater than your current experience.
As long as you ego, creates GØD on the outside relative to changing perceptions separate from you, backed up by internet quotes and links created by others, you cannot know God.

Humanity is evolving and won't give in to the Preacher who claims to know God and speak of God when Truths are backed up by scripture, internet links, changing personal beliefs and experiences.
To be annointed by the Holy Breath is to be free of the need to find God in idolatry and wear it as a badge.

Your greatest fear is that your 76 years were wasted and focused on illusions. Your Pride shows in your inability to let it all go and stand present and free from your past.

[Lindsay]

Lindsay, you try so hard to explore every and any portal through which you might tempt people to join your philosophy, but in the end you still have to answer openly and honestly to YOUR established congregation whether you believe in God (God, not GØD here), whether you worship God, whether you believe that there is a heaven that you hope to expire to (a long way off, I hope) and whether you believe that Jesus rose from the dead (I already know you believe there was a Jesus from other posts you have made).

I grew up in the United Church of Canada, which allowed me, and still allows me, to think, freely. Otherwise, I would not have stayed within it.

Now that I am retired--this is, I am not a pastoral minister--I am even freer, if such is possible.

In what religion were you raised, HH?

[Hey Hey]

In religion were you raised, HH?

I was raised in the Church of England. I was baptized, confirmed and married in Church. I was Head Choirboy, taught at Sunday School and played organ in Church. I have not been involved with any religion for more than 30 years. I have studied and researched science (professionally) and observed religion over this 30 years. I am free. My wife will worship and sing carols in Church at Christmas. She is also free. But freedom is a state of mind. My mind is and has always been in a state ().

What More To Be Free:

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16272

[Flex]

Every one…everything... is as our mirror…and thus, we can only point our finger…at ourselves. We can only express our inner realities…be them conscious…or unconscious…

Hmm…if we would only listen to ourselves, and realize that it is only ourselves that we judge and point too.

Couldn't have said it better myself (lol really I couldn't, well put!).

[Hey Hey]

Every one…everything... is as our mirror…and thus, we can only point our finger…at ourselves.

Opinion

We can only express our inner realities…be them conscious…or unconscious…

Good point

Hmm…if we would only listen to ourselves

Quite

and realize that it is only ourselves that we judge and point too.

eh?

[Joesus]

The absolute.

[Joesus]

Every one…everything... is as our mirror…and thus, we can only point our finger…at ourselves. We can only express our inner realities…be them conscious…or unconscious…

The inner reality of everything is the one

Hmm…if we would only listen to ourselves, and realize that it is only ourselves that we judge and point too.

If Silence was heard as the Self by the Self would one who is still, point?
What does the ONE hear?

[Flex]

Every one…everything... is as our mirror…and thus, we can only point our finger…at ourselves. We can only express our inner realities…be them conscious…or unconscious…

The inner reality of everything is the one

Hmm…if we would only listen to ourselves, and realize that it is only ourselves that we judge and point too.

If Silence was heard as the Self by the Self would one who is still, point?
What does the ONE hear?

I could have just watched The Matrix if I wanted to come to that conclusion

[Ignorance Is Eternal]

Are you saying that telling good news--which is what "evangelism" means--is a bad thing to do?

There is a difference between the literary denotation and the common usage and connotation of a word. To "evangelise" is often used meaning the attempt to convert others into believing as the "evangelist" does. This was my meaning and I'm nearly certain you understood it clearly.

I have been called many things during my career, but this is the first time I have ever been called a "flat character". Please define. If I found this thread "flat" I would not bother reading it.

I was using "flat" in the literary sense used in characterization. It means to exhibit one characteristic or trait. By this, I simply meant that each post of your's that I have seen has always rounded back to the same philosophy. So, in my experience, you have only exhibited one vein of thought. That, in my personal opinion, seems flat to me. I apologize for the abstract referrence

Keep in mind that this whole section is about theology, not pharmacology.

I've racked my mind, and I cannot come up with a single answer as to why you said this. Please, clarify.

BTW, you have probably heard the old one about the difference between "ignorance" and "stupidity".

Ignorance is curable.

Yeesh. I find this pretty offensive, and highly untrue. Besides the obvious connoted insult, ignorance is not, how you put it, "curable." To you in this present moment, "curing" my ignorance may be your interpretation of my silly little name, but on a much larger scale ignorance is impossible to escape. An old Zen paradox states "The more I know, the less I know." The more knowledge one obtains, the more he realizes that he knows exceedingly little about the world around him, and truly about all things. Unless, of course, one has religion and has figured everything out through faith and preference.

[Lindsay]

(Hey Hey @ Nov 28, 2006, 12:04 AM) *
Lindsay, you try so hard to explore every and any portal through which you might tempt people to join your philosophy...

Do I do so only to convince others to adopt my philosophy and theology? Let me put my goal this way: I write, mainly, to clarify my own thinking and to communicate what I think to others.

I love writing and communicating with others so much that I do not consider it hard work. I am also interested in inspiring people to be moral, ethical and loving human beings. And I readily admit that it is for very selfish reasons that I do so. Selfish? Yes. The more such people I have around me, the better my life will be.

BTW, have I made it clear to all of you that I do not believe in "a" god, a person-like God or "a" GØD?

I use "GØD" as a symbol for the totality of being--physically, mentally and spiritually--whatever that is, known and unknown and in which things exist. In my opinion, GØD is not a male or female personal being. Atheists may chose to have nothing to do with this "totality of being" but I cannot see how they can deny it. Neither ought they deny me the right to define what I believe to be true, at this point. If ever science proves that this universe is the result of a cosmic accident, I also reserve the right to change my mind . Fixed-position thinking is not my style.
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BTW, I am not the only one who thinks this way as the following will show:
Soma, posted the following in http://www.ctr4process.org/relationality/v...php?p=1538#1538

God the Father is an undivided and indivisible Whole, a pure consciousness that fills all time and permeates all space. This makes our purpose not to find God, but to realize God's presence and to understand that this all pervading consciousness is always with us. Life flows up from the inside where the Divine Presence is springing up from within us. When we realize this, we recognize that this all-pervading consciousness is responding to us from every person, thing or event that transpires. The Divine Presence is everywhere so let us awaken to the realization of this Presence.

I will never tell Soma that he must use the symbol that I use for the Divine Presence.

I wrote back:Thanks Soma. I tell the following story--and there are dozens like it that I could tell--to illustrate the point you make:

One Friday evening, while serving as a minister, as I was getting ready to take my family out for dinner, the phone rang. When I answered I heard the voice of a teenaged girl, who gave me her name, which I recognized:

"Rev. King, I am calling from a pay phone. I hate to bother you at home, but something terrible has happened to our family. When I got home from school my parents were out on the street and loading our few belongings into the old truck we own. We got evicted. I realize that you may not be able to help us, but I thought I would call, anyway."

Besides the teenager and her parents there was a two-year old boy.

"Jinny, I said, I know that you and your mother--by the way, she was a very shy person with very little to say--and your baby brother come to church regularly. I also know that you have come to my classes on pneumatology about how we can work with the power of God, which is in through and around us, to get things done and moving in our lives.

Before I say anything else, will you agree, in harmony with me and my family, to tune in, that is, to connect with, the Holy Spirit (Pneuma) of God and make the positive affirmation that we will be guided as to the best way to handle this problem."

Her immediate response was, "Yes!"

Now, put your mother on the line. I asked the mother to do the same thing that I asked her daughter to do. Like her daughter she, immediately, agreed.

Then I asked: "Is your husband near?"

"Yes" she said, "He's across the road loading the truck. But he is not interested in God, or the church. He is kind of bitter about such things."

When she told me that he was within shouting distance I said, "Tell him I would really like to speak to him, just for a minute or two and for the sake of his children. Tell him that I promise not to preach at him."

When he came to the phone I told him about what his wife, his daughter, and the Kings, agreed to do. Then I asked him if he would join in.

His immediate response was: "I would feel like a fool if I prayed to a God...not believing in his existence."

"I understand" I said. "But I am not asking you to belive in a god, out there, or up there, who hears and answers prayers as if he were a Santa Claus.

Instead, I want you to imagine, or even pretend, that I have access to a super computer which is programmed to answer any rational question you and I are prepared to ask, and with a rational answer. Would you be willing to make use of such a computer?"

"If it were true, I would be a fool to refuse. Okay I will play your pretend game."

Then I said, "When you have finished loading your stuff. Drive over to the church and I will meet you, there, in about fifty minutes, or so. There, we have a good kitchen. Bring any food you have. There is also a room, there, which you can use for the week-end, at least.

This will give us time to figure out the next move. I will speak to the social city services people, on Monday. Meanwhile, with the rest of the family, and my family, visualize that we will get the help we need. I will leave from here in about thirty minutes.

Just as I was about to leave to drive over to the church the phone rang. It was the unemployed trucker.

"Mr. King. I am glad I caught you before you left. About fifteen minutes after we spoke, just as I was putting the last few items on my truck, I remembered the name and number of a friend I haven't seen since he moved out of the city two years ago. He lives on his small farm--he was also was into trucking. He lives about ninety minutes drive out of the city. Years ago, we were good buddies and I did him favours, more than once. I phoned him and told him my problem.

"His immediate response was: Come on out. I have space for you and your family. As a matter of fact I was wondering where you were. I am now in the position where I need a good reliable person. Do you still have you truckers' license."

Even I was amazed at how quickly things came together. And this is not just an isolated incident.
"In all things, God works together for good..." as Paul put.
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[Joesus]

Lookin' for love in all the wrong places....

[Lindsay]

Lookin' for love in all the wrong places....

You are? Well, I am sorry to hear that. But don't worry, J! Love is a very renewable resource, and there is plenty for all of us, here--at one of the many right places.

[Joesus]

Sarcasm. This is good, a crack begins to form in the protective facade.

[code buttons]

...I resent nothing/no one. The future is a concept. I only fear that which I/we cannot control. Therefore, I find it of utmost importance that we reach the level of understanding that may allow us to control reality.

So, I fear time. Not the future.

CB, so now you tell me: "So, I fear time. Not the future." This prompts me to ask: How sure are you of your own opinions?

I have no opinions. Only conjectures and approximations. I just thrive to ask the right questions.

[Lindsay]

I have no opinions. Only conjectures and approximations. I just thrive to ask the right questions.

CB, this sounds good to me. What are your conjectures as to how we, as human beings relate, or can relate, to our 3D universe?

[Hey Hey]

3D universe

This will put great limits on your appreciation and understanding of why things are the way they are!

http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/13/11/9

[Joesus]

Hmmm…so Joe…if nothing is separate from anything…

And the absolute is unchanging…silent…still…

Why do we experience change… the desire to express…to act?

Too much thinking.

Explain Joe…the something from nothing…that is not separate from the Absolute, and yet the expression of IT…what is the difference…considering there is none?

There is no difference.

What is thought…emotion…opinion…and why do we experience them?

Like you said, all is an illusion, nothing is as it seems and it just is...

[Joesus]

Something not meeting your own definitions with satisfaction?

[Flex]

Something not meeting your own definitions with satisfaction?

"all is an illusion, nothing is as it seems, it just is"

If all is an illusion, why do you say it like you are right? To me that does not fit with my definition of satisfaction--what kind of answer is that...It just is...

[Joesus]

I was answering Dianah's question with her own answer.
I didn't expect it to satisfy you.

[Flex]

I was answering Dianah's question with her own answer.
I didn't expect it to satisfy you.

Then answer the damn question that I asked you rather than avoiding it--if all is an illusion then why do you say it like you are right?

[Ignorance Is Eternal]

I feel left out of all this fun. Lindsay didn't rebutt.

[Joesus]

Then answer the damn question that I asked you rather than avoiding it--if all is an illusion then why do you say it like you are right?

Do you think it's not right?

Personally I think the statement is incomplete, but not untrue.

[Flex]

Then answer the damn question that I asked you rather than avoiding it--if all is an illusion then why do you say it like you are right?

Do you think it's not right?

Personally I think the statement is incomplete, but not untrue.

All I know are the rules of logic, A=A Chair=Chair. I will say that it is a possability that life is an illusion, just like I say it is a possability that what you see is what you get. I do not say that life IS an illusion like I know it is right. You're saying that my statement is incomplete, but not untrue indicates that you found my statement true, thus you just basically stated that you are full of shit in your previous statements~

Will you answer the damn question already? If all is an illusion why do you say it like you are right? Because you are insecure and fear the possability that you are not all knowing, and that everything you believe could be wrong?