God Is In The Magic Mushrooms, Psychedelic drugs could be very good for your mind, heart, soul. Can you believe? Options

[trojan_libido]

Ok then Joesus, If "God" created everything biological, and there are so many interactions (read hallucinogens) that can break through an ego and show that every action has limitless potential, do you not feel that those substances, which may have been taken into the food chain, are important to our history? In other words, is there no value in hallucinogens?

The fact mystical experiences bubble up from these experiences, show me that "God" is abound in many places. Which brings us back to the topic. Is God in the magic mushroom?

[Enki]

HAHAHA I love you Enki--you have such a way with words

Thank you.
It was such a good topic indeed. And when I read what they wrote I felt great sadness and decided to express my sadness by the most suitable words for this particular case.

[forgottenpresence]

The key here forgottenpresence is...defending...proving...

as long as you defend, then there is always an opposition...know what you know and have peace in that knowing...

as the age old saying goes...do no throw your pearls before swine.

True,

Although I do enjoy enjoy a good debate at times. As long as I can realize and recognize my defensiveness and provableness attachment and degradation should not be an issue. At least from my perspective :/

[forgottenpresence]

Ok to set the record straight. Firstly I doubt if any of us have had one full enlightened hour between us, and since we can't define enlightenment then theres no real point arguing over it.

I would have to agree there.

Although I will defend this RIGHT to take entheogens.

[forgottenpresence]

Everyone has experiences and as such they could translate into value but then if you value one over another then you become attached to yourself and your experience.

Who is doing this? Like I said before, both meditation and psychedelics are very important. Both do different things. I told you that psychedelics would not work well for me if I did not integrate the experience with meditation. I am not implying that one has value over another, both are different things.

Humans are a reflection of God. That I am presence or I am That is more synonymous with the free flowing potential than the identity of any one experience. In realizing ones own potential anytime you take a stand in any one point of identity you cease to be the potential as you identity with something other.
This is what enlightenment is,

I don't believe you know what enlightenment is. The only way to know is to have experienced it, and I find this hard to believe. It has to do with distachment from the past, just because I can say this does not mean I know what enlightenment is. Distachment from the past is only a concept to me, it is not a total experience I am engaged in. So I do not have the right to claim this is what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is not a static definition, this confuses people and hinders growth.

God does not have a face, and there are no amount of faces that make a God because God is beyond infinite by any definition.

As Such when someone says to themselves I have experienced God or my Ego less self they only experience a reflection of the Self or of God.

That is your interpretation. You do not know everyones experiences, quit assuming you do.

The point is I have come to experience the capability to rise above any chemically induced high naturally, easily and permanently.

So have I. I have gone long periods of time abstaining from chemicals and it has been blissful. Does the fact that I can transcend entheogens make me too good for them? Just because I can transcend entheogens does not mean I should be pompous and tell myself I don't need them anymore and they do no good for me. And to tell others that they are wrong for using entheogens is just plain egocentric. We are all after different things in life, we are not all on your path. Just accept it.

I mean it's not like I do them every weekend. No no, not like that at all.

Drugs do not create enlightenment and they do not give anyone an experience of enlightenment. Enlightenment is not an experience, it takes one beyond the experiences.

Because you know so deeply what enlightenment is, right?

Enlightenment is something I'm sure none of us here have exerpienced.
But you are sure you have experienced being ego-less and states of no-mind..oh and also sensations of floating.
I had a sensation once...

I have lost attachment to my thought process, memory, sense of self, external world. There has been absolutely nothing, I was nobody. If this is not an ego-less state, then what is it? A thought process, a belief? Now it is only a memory of an experience, and I can realize that.

Where is the evidence that my nervous system is damaged?
It will come with the experience of transcending reality without the use of drugs and the experience of the mind and body in that state of consciousness. The experience of clarity of mind in daily living will amaze you.

It does amaze me. Now are you going to tell me you experience more clarity then me?

That day will come when you become unattached to your present beliefs.

Speak for yourself.

Your misunderstanding me. I do not "want" a certain experience. I feel it is part of my being and I use it to tune in to myself.
Then tune into the experience you have without drugs and meditation for that is a part of yourself that you are trying to escape from because you believe this other experience is more a part of yourself than the one you have without meditation and drugs. In fact the meditation should allow you to do this but you don't seem to become aware of yourself because you are fantasizing about your altered states experiences.

I can be in meditation and not have to meditate. I bet you didn't know that.

I can achieve a thoughtless aware blissful state through meditation. I cannot turn into a strand of DNA rotating and realizing things I could never comprehend through meditation alone (at least in this lifetime with society and all).

The thoughtful blissful state in meditation is obviously not enough for you so you take a drug to have an experience. This attachment to experiences is the addiction created by the ego.
You still don't know what or who you are do you? If you did you would be less enthralled by the experiences you are having under the influence of psychoactive placebos.

Keep trying to assume what I experience, it really isn't working. Your telling me I experience a "thoughtful blissful state" in meditation? How would you know what I experience? This is complete ignorance. You have no idea how attached to my experiences are through the words I convey and you cannot tell me I'm addicted. Assuming these things is a manifestation of the ego

I have had many experiences, and all I am doing is speaking of the validity of personal experience. You are the one who is imposing your opinions and beliefs onto me.
As Dianah Said you are defending your personal experiences and that is the trap of the ego.
No one said you didn't have the experiences, no one says you can't have them. There is so much more to you than the identification you have with them and the limitations you place on how you have them.

And like I said, I can realize I am doing so. I am ultimately defending the right to take entheogens, like trojan mentioned. You on the other hand cannot realize how you are in denial.

[Rick]

PS - this quote thing is not working..

One incorrectly nested quote or slash quote in a post and none of them will work. You should be able to go back and edit it for correctness.

[forgottenpresence]

thanks

[Joesus]

Ok then Joesus, If "God" created everything biological, and there are so many interactions (read hallucinogens) that can break through an ego and show that every action has limitless potential, do you not feel that those substances, which may have been taken into the food chain, are important to our history? In other words, is there no value in hallucinogens?

First of all if the reactionary discipline is to identify with ones character and projected beliefs in reality according to the interpretations of the ego any experience is going to be returned to ego's box for subject value and interpretation.
While having an experience, any experience, if the ego and all its principles are intact and the mind has not accustomed itself to the reality of egolessness, comprehension is going to be limited because the mind will not be familiar with any relevant function of thought in the unfamiliar. Until the experience is over, the mind will not make any references to what has happened or what is happening unless it is dragging its projections of belief with it which have been created prior to the experience.
The natural tendency to return all experiences to home base is relevant to any level of consciousness.
Home base is either based on experience of identities created from the past or in the case of the enlightened, the unmanifest, which is beyond all experience and identification.

Value is relative to the experience of awareness, and if the awareness is the identification with external manifestations, then they are going to change according to the experiences. IF the awareness is the unmanifest there is no change, and value would automatically be given to the expansion of awareness or the depth of the unmanifest in experience rather than the experience and any of its qualities.

The fact mystical experiences bubble up from these experiences, show me that "God" is abound in many places. Which brings us back to the topic. Is God in the magic mushroom?

God is in everything, which is why it is unnecessary to look to one experience over another, or to external manipulation to create a certain type of experience to call God.
God is more mundane than special, but the ego would like God to be mystical and fantastic in experience.

I don't believe you know what enlightenment is. The only way to know is to have experienced it, and I find this hard to believe.

Of course you don't believe it, and as such you will defend your beliefs and put all interpretations of your experiences in the box of beliefs. This will inhibit you from accepting anything that does not fit in your box and at the same time give you all the reason to defend what you do believe so you have some point of reference to identify reality and yourself.

So I do not have the right to claim this is what enlightenment is.

But you do believe you have the right to tell someone else that they do not know either, based on your own inability to recognize enlightenment.
This just comes from fear of being less or knowing less than you could or should.

It has to do with distachment from the past

That is only a quality not a prerequisite.

As Such when someone says to themselves I have experienced God or my Ego less self they only experience a reflection of the Self or of God.


That is your interpretation. You do not know everyones experiences, quit assuming you do.

This is not just my interpretation or experience. There is no experience that can contain God. The Egoless Self is God and it cannot be contained in an experience either. This is just reality.

It does amaze me. Now are you going to tell me you experience more clarity then me?

No I don't have to tell you that, you wouldn't really accept that anyone could experience anything more clear than you, or that you could get any clearer.

I have gone long periods of time abstaining from chemicals and it has been blissful. Does the fact that I can transcend entheogens make me too good for them?

The issue is not whether you are better than them it is whether you identify yourself with them at all. Your previous posts stated that you could not get the experiences of combining meditation and mushrooms by meditation alone. Now you say you can.

Just because I can transcend entheogens does not mean I should be pompous and tell myself I don't need them anymore and they do no good for me. And to tell others that they are wrong for using entheogens is just plain egocentric. We are all after different things in life, we are not all on your path. Just accept it.

Not a problem I can accept that you just like getting high. That is what I figured in the first place. It was all the "I am more enlightened by taking drugs" crap that I was addressing.

I have lost attachment to my thought process, memory, sense of self, external world. There has been absolutely nothing, I was nobody. If this is not an ego-less state, then what is it? A thought process, a belief?

No not a thought process, because you couldn't think it is an unconscious state of mind. The egoless state of awareness is not devoid of Self awareness, the ability to think, or remember.
A person would be a vegetable in the state of mind you describe and unable to function in this world. Does this function-less state of mind sound like enlightenment to you?

I can be in meditation and not have to meditate.

Of course you can but you aren't all the time are you.

And like I said, I can realize I am doing so. I am ultimately defending the right to take entheogens, like trojan mentioned.

I said you were making excuses for taking psychedelics and you denied it before.
The question I have now is why would you find the need to defend the right? Why would you draw to yourself anything that would cause you to defend your choices? Are you a victim?

[forgottenpresence]

The issue is not whether you are better than them it is whether you identify yourself with them at all.

How do you know how much I identify myself with them in everyday life? You seem pretty identified with your thought-process if you ask me

Your previous posts stated that you could not get the experiences of combining meditation and mushrooms by meditation alone. Now you say you can.

You claim to be this know-it-all guru of everything, you have the power to tell me I'm heading in the wrong direction, yet you can't even read right? Give me a break.

Not a problem I can accept that you just like getting high. That is what I figured in the first place. It was all the "I am more enlightened by taking drugs" crap that I was addressing.

Once again you assume my intentions. Not a good sign


I have lost attachment to my thought process, memory, sense of self, external world. There has been absolutely nothing, I was nobody. If this is not an ego-less state, then what is it? A thought process, a belief?

No not a thought process, because you couldn't think it is an unconscious state of mind. The egoless state of awareness is not devoid of Self awareness, the ability to think, or remember.
A person would be a vegetable in the state of mind you describe and unable to function in this world. Does this function-less state of mind sound like enlightenment to you?

If this was an unconscious state of mind then why was I conscious. There was an "I" but no "me". Starting to get it now?

You obviously have never heard of Meher Baba or Osho's experiences with ego-death, or any other satguru for that matter. Satgurus speak of ego-death as a required experience on the path to actual enlightenment/self-realization. Of course it is not a permanent experience, get the static out of your head.

The egoless state of awareness is not devoid of Self awareness, the ability to think, or remember.

Meher Baba wouldn't say so.


I can be in meditation and not have to meditate.

Of course you can but you aren't all the time are you.

Never claimed I was. These childish comebacks don't tell me much about tyou.

The question I have now is why would you find the need to defend the right?

Because they have been powerful tools for understanding and realization in my experience. Not everybody who uses entheogens can tap into the healing energies they contain, this goes for you too.

Why would you draw to yourself anything that would cause you to defend your choices? Are you a victim?

Once again, speak for yourself.


Also, you can stop ranting and preaching. I already understand everything you say there is no need

[trojan_libido]

Ok then Joesus, If "God" created everything biological, and there are so many interactions (read hallucinogens) that can break through an ego and show that every action has limitless potential, do you not feel that those substances, which may have been taken into the food chain, are important to our history? In other words, is there no value in hallucinogens?

First of all if the reactionary discipline is to identify with ones character and projected beliefs in reality according to the interpretations of the ego any experience is going to be returned to ego's box for subject value and interpretation.
While having an experience, any experience, if the ego and all its principles are intact and the mind has not accustomed itself to the reality of egolessness, comprehension is going to be limited because the mind will not be familiar with any relevant function of thought in the unfamiliar. Until the experience is over, the mind will not make any references to what has happened or what is happening unless it is dragging its projections of belief with it which have been created prior to the experience.
The natural tendency to return all experiences to home base is relevant to any level of consciousness.
Home base is either based on experience of identities created from the past or in the case of the enlightened, the unmanifest, which is beyond all experience and identification.

Value is relative to the experience of awareness, and if the awareness is the identification with external manifestations, then they are going to change according to the experiences. IF the awareness is the unmanifest there is no change, and value would automatically be given to the expansion of awareness or the depth of the unmanifest in experience rather than the experience and any of its qualities.

All that text and little content, again. Answer YES OR NO please, without your incessant esoteric walls of text.

The fact mystical experiences bubble up from these experiences, show me that "God" is abound in many places. Which brings us back to the topic. Is God in the magic mushroom?

God is in everything, which is why it is unnecessary to look to one experience over another, or to external manipulation to create a certain type of experience to call God.
God is more mundane than special, but the ego would like God to be mystical and fantastic in experience.

Your actually saying that its the Ego that makes spontaneous spiritual rebirth a special experience. I always thought the experience feels special because it is. This is how we can identify the experience, isn't it? Can you honestly say you can appreciate anything without using the Ego to weigh up an experience against all the others in memory? I doubt it. Again I feel you've deflected the question rather than answer honestly.

[Joesus]

How do you know how much I identify myself with them in everyday life?

Just call me master of the obvious.

You claim to be this know-it-all guru of everything,

Could you quote me where I make this claim to know everything.

Once again you assume my intentions.

I would never..

If this was an unconscious state of mind then why was I conscious. There was an "I" but no "me". Starting to get it now?

Where did the me go? Where could it go? Are you saying the me never existed or was experienced? Wouldn't conscious awareness include both illusion and truth and the ability to recognize the difference? Or is Consciousness forgetful or schizophrenic?

The egoless state of awareness is not devoid of Self awareness, the ability to think, or remember.

Meher Baba wouldn't say so.

Oh I bet he would. You might be narrowing the egoless experience to an experience of the reflection of the absolute, the silence and stillness of what appears to be nothing.
When one immerses themselves in the absolute, the reality of where all things begin and end lead the way to the surrender of identity of self and experience. This is not a state of consciousness but a reflection of Self. It is not egolessness because here potential does not disclude or include anything.
Being egoless is not being without ego. Some Masters have spoken of killing the ego, or death of the ego, but in reality it was a description of the death of the waking state, or the transition from one level of awareness to another.
In reference to change according to some Eastern Teachings and the description of change within the natural laws that support reality, Everything is made possible by the Gunas.
When a flower blooms the bud dies. When a child becomes a man the child dies but in reality the child is not such an illusion that the experience never happened, or is dead to the universe like it is gone. As such the experience of the me never leaves one in the experience of the Self because the Self includes the me and all experiences beyond the identification of me.
Conscious thought (not necessarily waking state conscious thought where the ego is dominant) includes all rather than some, or partial awareness.
This would be expanded consciousness rather than selective consciousness or unconsciousness where something is experienced while all other experiences are blanked out.
Are you familiar with the Brahman, or the conscious experience of being in more than one place at the same time?

Some believe the goal of meditation is the experience with closed the eyes. Others who meditate throughout their lives do so to bring the absolute into the manifest rather than to escape the manifest into silence and non experience.
In reality expanded states of consciousness merge what was impossible to experience in more gross levels of awareness and often experienced as nothing into experience of Self where conscious thought and awareness were not possible before.
This is similar to the comprehension of reality in the evolving child and the adult. Experience lays the foundation for the capability to comprehend, but in the development of the ego comprehension relies heavily on merging the past with the present and the predictability of the future rather than the development of the subtle senses and the awareness of multidimensional realities or the poteential of the absolute Self.
As such there has been much mystery and fantasy rallied around the identity with non experience or the temporary blanking out of awareness when the mind leaves what is most familiar and then temporarily losing itself in the unfamiliar expansiveness of Supreme being.

Never claimed I was. These childish comebacks don't tell me much about tyou.

I wasn't saying much about me, I was pointing out the choice you were making to only focus on something greater than your waking state reality sometimes, and then to pat yourself on the back for doing what you believe is greater on occasion, and with the idea that its enhanced with the use of hallucinogens.

I had a friend once who used to compare body building with smoking. He said he was tearing down the muscle tissue in his lungs to make them stronger.
Anyone can make excuses for their choices and then justify them with a reason that make sense to them.
God gives humans choice but does not necessarily create a value in the choice. That can follow interpretation of different levels of conscious awareness. Children have values that become valueless as they become adults. I'm only suggesting that your present system of values will necessarily influence you present experiences.

The question I have now is why would you find the need to defend the right?

Because they have been powerful tools for understanding and realization in my experience. Not everybody who uses entheogens can tap into the healing energies they contain, this goes for you too.

If everyone can't, then I would say its not a universal truth but a personal truth. That could be all the reason to defend something, if one would feel they were being threatened personally, or if they felt their personal experience was special or fragile.
I think you could do better than to have to defend yourself, or you might even come up with some better excuses.

Why would you draw to yourself anything that would cause you to defend your choices? Are you a victim?
I thought I'd ask this again to see if this defensive position is something you consciously chose for, or unconsciously stepped into, or if life just threw it at you because that's the way it is.

[Joesus]

All that text and little content, again. Answer YES OR NO please, without your incessant esoteric walls of text.

No to answering yes or no.

Your actually saying that its the Ego that makes spontaneous spiritual rebirth a special experience.

The ego can conceptualize within its own terms what rebirth is. As to making anything special that could be relegated to personality and egoic necessity.

I always thought the experience feels special because it is. This is how we can identify the experience, isn't it?

point of reference. Two or more people could be standing in a room and have completely different experiences. Is it because something is special that one has an experience or is it just point of reference. Thoughts that create impressions in neural pathways may leave one receptive to certain influences and someone may be receptive to something where another is not. Is something still special when someone experiences it and another does not in the same period of time and in the same location?

Do you think back with special fondness on all experiences? Have you had the experience of eating the same thing over and over again where you liked what you ate in the beginning but became less enchanted with it later, or having repeated experiences of anything where the effects degraded with time and repetitiveness?

Can you honestly say you can appreciate anything without using the Ego to weigh up an experience against all the others in memory? I doubt it. Again I feel you've deflected the question rather than answer honestly.

I can honestly say I still have feelings and they include appreciation or praise, and it is more akin to the recognition that follows not just the experience but what creates the manifestation of experience and what underlies the feelings. The appreciation is more for the power that underlies the ability to create and experience than the shiny object which can be seen and experienced so many different ways by so many different personalities.

In other words If someone gets a present and it brings them joy I can experience joy from their having joy rather than from the same thing they feel joy about which would be the present. Both of us could feel joy but for two different experiences.

In relative identification, I've been in situations, being one of three brothers, where one gets something and the others don't have any appreciation for the others gift. In fact one might feel depressed while the one who gets feels great.
Detaching from the object is not something you deliberately do, detachment comes after the experience of union which follows the fading of judgment which follows conscious choice to surrender all thought feeling and action back to the unmanifest absolute.

When you experience yourself in the object of perception it is impossible to feel separate from it.
Feelings come and go and they are not necessarily tied to an experience or an object anymore, sometimes they come from being in proximity to someone and feeling their feelings.
Appreciation can come from simply stepping aside from the identification with the subjective world and observing creation unfold from thought and or intention.
In that some might say all of creation is special or you could also say none of it is special, both would be relatively equal in the awareness of Union.

[trojan_libido]

All that text and little content, again. Answer YES OR NO please, without your incessant esoteric walls of text.

No to answering yes or no.

So your admitting that you don't actually have much of an opinion. So why come to debate on this topic? I'm going to start pointing you to Colin Leslie Deans work of genius...

[Joesus]

So your admitting that you don't actually have much of an opinion.

Everyone forms opinions. The sooner you let them go the easier it is to receive greater experience and knowledge.

So why come to debate on this topic?

You said earlier the question was, "Is God in the magic mushrooms?"
This could be answered with a yes or no but looking over the posts I see the subject matter has been spoken of in the description of personal experiences, the belief in God, and whether anyone is enlightened enough to know God; which brings up a point.
You said.

Ok to set the record straight. Firstly I doubt if any of us have had one full enlightened hour between us, and since we can't define enlightenment then theres no real point arguing over it.

If one is not enlightened enough to know the difference between God and illusion then how could one intelligently speak of a relationship with God in terms of anything let alone create a point of debate.
Secondly how do you debate a question without answering it first then making the decision to debate ones answer to a question? Third, what separates a debate from an argument in your opinion?
Then if your are asking a question with the intent of creating a debate over the answers to invalidate or validate someones experiences what does that say for the mindset of the user who poses the question?
Are you looking for an argument/debate?
Is this the specialness you recognize in life, the opportunity to debate your experiences? Is life a debate?

What are you really looking for in identifying the question is God in a magic mushroom as a topic of debate.
You might believe in God or not, or maybe you are still searching for the definitive answer to what God is or the continuation of the ongoing experience of God.
IF you take magic mushrooms and you have an experience and you liken the experience to God if you have defined God and said experience, then are you looking to validate your experience by seeking like counsel in appreciation for your experience because you feel easily threatened and need to defend the use of Mushrooms by calling it a spiritual tool?
What are you debating here and do you come here strictly to debate every question posed on this media?

Enki came and expressed the feeling that I fucked up this post but I don't think the expression was open for debate, it was an outright expression of opinion and feelings. So I don't know if what you are saying is clear but I would agree it is emotionally inspired.

I'm going to start pointing you to Colin Leslie Deans work of genius...

And I'll probably keep surrendering everything back to first principle or origin, Or living my life as it comes without the need to debate the choices I make or the thoughts that pass by.
Ultimately I think its a lot easier to live if I'm not emotionally guarded.
Just my experience tho, and you are certainly welcome to express your opinions without any fear of taking anything away from me.

[code buttons]

Because they have been powerful tools for understanding and realization in my experience. Not everybody who uses entheogens can tap into the healing energies they contain, this goes for you too.

Welcome, forgottenpresence. Cool avatar! What does it mean?

[trojan_libido]

If one is not enlightened enough to know the difference between God and illusion then how could one intelligently speak of a relationship with God in terms of anything let alone create a point of debate.

God is the illusion, and the reality. The whole point is why is it possible gain a mystical experience from these substances, from both a biological and a historical point of view. Do these substances give enough insight into personal psychology, cultural psychology and even geometrically, to see another view of "God".

[Joesus]

Is it the placebo or the thought?
Doctors can give a sugar pill to a patient, tell them it will heal them and the suggestion is taken inward with results similar to the drugs prescribed for the ailment.
In some cases mushrooms will have no psychotic effects, and in other cases it will stretch a persons mind beyond what they are capable of understanding.

Did you get your answer to the question "Do these substances give enough insight into personal psychology, cultural psychology and even geometrically, to see another view of "God"?"

Have we determined what God is and what enough insight is to the subjects mentioned?

Is this still a debate?

[forgottenpresence]

Because they have been powerful tools for understanding and realization in my experience. Not everybody who uses entheogens can tap into the healing energies they contain, this goes for you too.

Welcome, forgottenpresence. Cool avatar! What does it mean?

Hi!

What it means to me... it means a lot! It is the third eye, which has meaning no words can convey.

[forgottenpresence]

What is sought is found, it doesn’t freaking matter what belief, method or drug that is taught, practiced or takenâ€Â¦if the seeker really desires what it seeks, then it will find it.

[Joesus]

What you stated can be applied to anything such as; Teachers can give attitudes to a student, tell them it will heal them and the suggestion is taken inward with results similar to the advice prescribed for the aliment.

No it can't be applied equally. If the Teacher says something that the student doesn't understand then there can be no connection to what the Teacher has said.
If the student prescribes his own ideas of reality into the teaching it may be that what is found and experienced is only illusion.
Not all Teachers are living in illusion or do they guide one toward egoic fantasies.
Not all methods are effective when taught by Teachers who claim to know something when they really don't.
Not all teachers will compromise truth to satisfy the ego and its desire for illusion.

In the history of humanity seeking a God that will take away all misery and suffering, such a thing has yet to be found because there is no external God that would step in and take away ones choice and belief.
One may create representatives or charlatans who profess to knowing God and have their subjects serve their personal beliefs in their knowing, but often dreams are shattered because they are convinced by others that they have found what they are looking for by hypnotizing the mind with foolish ideas and distracting one from what is in their heart.

In the placebo affect it is not the pill that does the healing but the patient that does the healing. What is found is temporary because placebos only work as long as the conscious awareness is shifted from the disease or illness, but it does not treat the cause, only its symptoms.
Just as any drug only treats symptoms healing can only occur when one shifts their awareness from internal stresses to something greater with a method to release the cause of stress and the stress itself.

What is sought is found, it doesn’t freaking matter what belief, method or drug that is taught, practiced or taken…if the seeker really desires what it seeks, then it will find it.

You think Timothy Leary found the perfect method to experience God through LSD, or do you think he could have done better?
What is found and believed is often illusion and as such temporary, leaving one with nothing at all.
There are some who are less deluded or twisted in helping others follow dreams of fantasy, or to tell them that anything will work as long as they work at it.

Anything is possible but not every possibility is present within the beliefs or the path of each individual because their path may be to discover the difference in illusion and Truth by discovering how the universe supports that which is real rather than fantasy.

It does matter. Seeking pink elephants in a quart jar because you really believe that is where they live is not likely to produce anything other than suffering at the cost of a wasted life dreaming of something that cannot be supported by the natural laws of the environment.

[trojan_libido]

I've never said that ingesting mushroom is the perfect method to experience God. Far from it, it may take you years to experience anything slightly like spiritual.

Have we determined what God is and what enough insight is to the subjects mentioned?

I was asking you, since you appear to have the required experiences of both natural and induced methods of conscious expansion. Why can't you give an opinion? Has all the ego dissolution left you incapable of deciding one way or another? If so, this enlightenment isn't what I expected it to be.

[code buttons]

Because they have been powerful tools for understanding and realization in my experience. Not everybody who uses entheogens can tap into the healing energies they contain, this goes for you too.

Welcome, forgottenpresence. Cool avatar! What does it mean?

Hi!

What it means to me... it means a lot! It is the third eye, which has meaning no words can convey.

Dude, I just noticed your signature! It rocks too!!!

[Joesus]

No it can't be applied equally

Yes it can.

Every ‘no its not’… limits potential and keeps one in their boxes.

Every "no its not" is an example of unlimited potential.

I personally haven't met anyone who would tell me they do not want "peace and happiness" in their lives.
I'm not talking about sometimes or "I remember when..." peace and happiness but peace and happiness in every experience.

Try to find someone who will tell you they do not want it, that they really don't want it, and they will probably tell you they really want it.

Th end result is that few if any really understand what peace and happiness is, nor do they get it.

There are many roads that lead to consciousness but they do not all end in Union.

this enlightenment isn't what I expected it to be.

Enlightenment is nothing about expectations.

[forgottenpresence]

I've never said that ingesting mushroom is the perfect method to experience God. Far from it, it may take you years to experience anything slightly like spiritual.

Many people have never "broken through" on entheogens. Many cling to their ego so tightly psychedelics only give power to it. Ego-dissolution via entheogens is something not everyone encounters along their travels, but when the time comes it happens and attachmnent is dissolved. The plan now is distachment from the past, not simple, yet not confusing.

I was asking you, since you appear to have the required experiences of both natural and induced methods of conscious expansion. Why can't you give an opinion? Has all the ego dissolution left you incapable of deciding one way or another? If so, this enlightenment isn't what I expected it to be.

Certainly doesn't sound like enlightenment to me

Why bother preaching so much about enlightenment if you can't emanate loving kindness through your words? Kind of contradictory if you ask me...

[Joesus]

Why bother preaching so much about enlightenment if you can't emanate loving kindness through your words? Kind of contradictory if you ask me...

Mollycoddling the ego is not kindness nor is it compassionate, and.... I never preach!

[forgottenpresence]

I never preach!

Thou not know all perspectives.

[Joesus]

I never preach!

Thou not know all perspectives.

I don't have to.

[Joesus]

I don't have to.

coz it eludes you

No, the fact that people say things like you preach doesn't mean I preach.

In this case the comment was made without any real thought and was inspired by an emotional attachment to a belief.

[forgottenpresence]

I don't have to.

coz it eludes you

No, the fact that people say things like you preach doesn't mean I preach.

In this case the comment was made without any real thought and was inspired by an emotional attachment to a belief.

preaching means different things to different people, this is part of what i meant by my comment. by definition, you are preaching to me.

[Joesus]

That would be a personal definition. In which case I'm not required to be co-dependent to meet your expectations.