God Is In The Magic Mushrooms, Psychedelic drugs could be very good for your mind, heart, soul. Can you believe? Options

[Hey Hey]

http://sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

[Joesus]

I don't believe, I experience. Big difference there.

In your case not really.

When my third eye is activated, labelling this experience as placebo is absurd.

It's not the experience I was referring to, it was your need for the mushroom that you give strength to, and the belief that you cannot achieve such an experience by yourself without it.
The experience and your belief that your third eye is open is altogether a different and more humorous subject.

Obviously you have not experienced so there is no need for me to say anymore.

There wasn't a need for you to say anything in the first place other than to defend your belief so that it might seem more real to you.

Continue trying to prove your beliefs, because thats all they are. Experience is completely different. Bless the egomaniac.

Experience is something...., and I applaud to the experience or rather the ability to transcend reality without a need for external chemicals to scramble the more than capable human nervous system when it is not filled with so much stress and belief in limitations.

You need to concentrate more on what I have said previously. Of course they do not allow you to transcend the ego permanently. They give you an understanding of the ego, which helps you to transcend it with meditation.

Really your just making an excuse for taking hallucinogens. One could learn about the ego very effectively without taking anything to alter ones state of mind and create a chemical dependency to project an experience of life beyond duality.

Meditation alone cannot induce such a deep understanding of the body and ego, this is why psychedelics for me have allowed my meditation to progress at an exponential rate.

Using your reasoning I expect you have tried all forms of meditation and means of self discipline, and.... have full knowledge of where you are going to make such assumptions regarding your progress.
Anyone can toot their own horn and make claims to experience themselves having reached expanded states of awareness. Only one who has traveled that road would be able to tell whether another has really accomplished such a task. Also anyone can make claims to having done something in a crowd that has no knowledge of a subject.

There is no need for me to go on, I know the difference between my experience and my beliefs.

You said something to the effect of not needing to go on in a previous sentence but you seem to find reason to go on anyway..I would say that you can't really keep track of your experiences and your beliefs if you have to repeat yourself.

My experiences are only imagination to you, so of course everything I say can be considered ego based. Those who have not experienced my depth only perceive a reflection of their lower self.

I'm experiencing something...., and if it were beyond ego I think it would be more of a reflection of my higher self. But I think your statement is more accurate. It is definately something of a different flavor.

[forgottenpresence]

[quote name='Joesus' date='Sep 06, 2007, 10:15 PM' post='82666']
I don't believe, I experience. Big difference there.[/quote]

In your case not really.[/quote]

How are you so sure you you can assume how attached to my belief I am? If I talk through awareness and not the cloud of mind I know that I am just speaking words. Realizing that I can drop attachment to them. If I were to speak through a belief construct rather than awareness that would likely be a different story. But experience is not a belief construct, an interpretation is though.


[quote]It's not the experience I was referring to, it was your need for the mushroom that you give strength to, and the belief that you cannot achieve such an experience by yourself without it.
The experience and your belief that your third eye is open is altogether a different and more humorous subject.[/quote]

When did I say I *needed* mushrooms, and when did I say I gave strength to them? I mentioned earlier that they were merely catalysts to speed one's understanding of the self. It is humorous to observe your lack of attention and understanding of what is being communicated here.

Saying my third eye was activated does not have to mean it was permanently activated. Observe the possibilities. It was open for the duration of the experience(s).


[quote]Obviously you have not experienced so there is no need for me to say anymore.[/quote]

There wasn't a need for you to say anything in the first place other than to defend your belief so that it might seem more real to you.


[quote][quote]Continue trying to prove your beliefs, because thats all they are. Experience is completely different. Bless the egomaniac.[/quote]

Experience is something...., and I applaud to the experience or rather the ability to transcend reality without a need for external chemicals to scramble the more than capable human nervous system when it is not filled with so much stress and belief in limitations.[/quote]

How are you so sure my nervous system contains belief in limitations, and how are you so sure entheogens make me stay attached to these beliefs?. You are letting your belief that the "stress of the nervous system" prevents one from realizing truth contained within the experience. Just because there may be some form of stress does not mean I can't transcend my attachment to body and ego and understand what is going on within me.


[quote][quote]You need to concentrate more on what I have said previously. Of course they do not allow you to transcend the ego permanently. They give you an understanding of the ego, which helps you to transcend it with meditation.[/quote]

Really your just making an excuse for taking hallucinogens. One could learn about the ego very effectively without taking anything to alter ones state of mind and create a chemical dependency to project an experience of life beyond duality.[/quote]

And what exuse is that? My experiences have shown me how my mind operates on a very deep level. I know this because this is what I have been shown. To understand how the ego operates, one must dissolve attachment to it. That is observance. It takes many people a long time to achieve this kind of detachment through meditation alone. Most will never make it in todays society. You believe that anybody in todays world can just as easily and in the same amount of time achieve this kind of detachment through meditation alone? In my experience, entheogens and meditation are important. I feel entheogens would not do much for me if I never practised daily meditation. During meditation I realize things that were realized on an entheogenic experience. This is how they work together, it is kind of like deja vu. Realization is a powerful thing.


[quote][quote]Meditation alone cannot induce such a deep understanding of the body and ego, this is why psychedelics for me have allowed my meditation to progress at an exponential rate.[/quote]

Using your reasoning I expect you have tried all forms of meditation and means of self discipline, and.... have full knowledge of where you are going to make such assumptions regarding your progress.
Anyone can toot their own horn and make claims to experience themselves having reached expanded states of awareness. Only one who has traveled that road would be able to tell whether another has really accomplished such a task. Also anyone can make claims to having done something in a crowd that has no knowledge of a subject.[/quote]

I have been meditating for 5 years. I have been to Vipassana meditation retreats meditating for 100 hours in 10 days. I have been egoless during these experiences, they have given me a deep understanding of my ego. But I don't feel I would ever be able to expand or contract my awareness into such micro/macrocosmic levels of consciousness with meditation alone. Entheogens are another pair of eyes for me, and I can access their sight. I cannot access this information with meditation alone, that is what I mean.


[quote]There is no need for me to go on, I know the difference between my experience and my beliefs.[/quote]

You said something to the effect of not needing to go on in a previous sentence but you seem to find reason to go on anyway..I would say that you can't really keep track of your experiences and your beliefs if you have to repeat yourself.[/quote]

I stated this because of your misunderstand. I feel the need to go on to help you understand where I am coming from. Although you may never as you cannot know so much about the entheogenic experience without having experience it. Claiming you do is just plain ignorance.


I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.