What or who does the Holy Spirit mean to you? Options

[Onfire]

There is no different between the Holy spirit and the Great Spirit, they are both the same
The holy spirit was said to be fist given to John the Baptist and Then was given to Jesus Christ
But john the Baptist said who he was, pointing to Jesus that he was greater than him.

who or what does the Holy Spirit mean to you?

[lucid_dream]

please, spare us the proselytizing

[maximus242]

ah good, im not the only one who was rearing to start bashing religion.

[code buttons]

There is no different between the Holy spirit and the Great Spirit, they are both the same
The holy spirit was said to be fist given to John the Baptist and Then was given to Jesus Christ
But john the Baptist said who he was, pointing to Jesus that he was greater than him.

who or what does the Holy Spirit mean to you?

You WERE Onfire till this!

[maximus242]

lol I just hope we dont have another dattaswami that was getting out of hand.

[Onfire]

lol I just hope we dont have another dattaswami that was getting out of hand.

so if i can ask question to see what you guys really believe in
than why have a category of this, you will pick apart one the wishes to
talk about your categories ?????

[code buttons]

I am asking questions
i want to see what you guys really think.
if you dont want this types of question asked why do you have a category

I have no opinion on the holy spirit you're talking about. That kind of concept originated with Christianity, which happens to be a dogma based on organized religion created about two thousand years ago by the elite rulers of the Roman Empire at the time. This ideology, at its turn, was partially copied from ancient Hebrew manuscripts which were themselves "borrowed" from manuscrits so ancient that nobody really knows who wrote them; but which all have one thing in common: They were written by ancient civilizations whose only scientific knowledge were based on the stars and the movement of the stars from the earth's perspective. Or ancient Astrology, to put it another way.

[maximus242]

lol no, but you are preaching about the holy spirit to people who havent even agreed that God exists. How are we supposed to form opinions about something that we have yet to even finish debating over if religion should even be in existance.

[Onfire]

I am asking questions
i want to see what you guys really think.
if you dont want this types of question asked why do you have a category

I have no opinion on the holy spirit you're talking about. That kind of concept originated with Christianity, which happens to be a dogma based on organized religion created about two thousand years ago by the elite rulers of the Roman Empire at the time. This ideology, at its turn, was partially copied from ancient Hebrew manuscripts which were themselves "borrowed" from manuscrits so ancient that nobody really knows who wrote them; but which all have one thing in common: They were written by ancient civilizations whose only scientific knowledge were based on the stars and the movement of the stars from the earth's perspective. Or ancient Astrology, to put it another way.

i like your point of view code, your very optimistic
unlike others thanx for the reply

[Onfire]

lol no, but you are preaching about the holy spirit to people who havent even agreed that God exists. How are we supposed to form opinions about something that we have yet to even finish debating over if religion should even be in existance.

did you understand my question?
or are you ignorant because you lack the ability to learn
new information or do you wish to dwell where you stand in present knowledge
dont you wish to increse in knowledge? why are you negative about
discussion

[maximus242]

Sorry OnFire, but you have to understand that we get the same sort of topics ever few weeks. If you want to start posting things like this, you have to understand that not all the people on this forum are supportive of religion. If you check things like
On The Spiritual Laziness And Gullibility Of Christians, Islamic Sheep, Buddhists, And Others Who Cannot Think For Themselves. You will begin to see that people are debating god, they havent even reached the holy spirit or forms of specific religions, we are still in the general and overall similarities religions exhibit universally. On this forum, everyone gets a fair share of positive and negative responses, overall everyone gets along, but it is this clash in views that allows all of us to expand our minds.

[Onfire]

On this forum, everyone gets a fair share of positive and negative responses, overall everyone gets along, but it is this clash in views that allows all of us to expand our minds.
[/quote]



now this is what i am talking about

lets share

[maximus242]

Okay, well in response to your question, the holy spirit means nothing more to me than a undescriptive character in a story. It may be representational of something else that spans across multiple religions, but im unsure about that.

[Onfire]

symbolizes the unknown self…the impulse or desire that guides us to seek…it is of the ‘feminine energies’ which is that of intuition and inspiration…so…in being ‘given’ means to me…one has developed intuitive insight

your on the right track - your pretty smart

[Onfire]

onfire,


smiles...well...I am a woman...and not too many persist on this board...as for being on the right track...smiles again...I follow the heart

You are wise to say you follow the Heart, the heart doesnt lie.

[Neural]

cool pic Onfire. Where'd you get it?

[Meklo]

The Holy spirit in the Christian sense doesn't mean anything in particular to me. I've always considered Christian texts to be a collection of parables - not to be taken as a literal idea.

I believe not so much in a "Holy Spirit", but in a consciousness that runs through all. I think that we are all part of a greater entity - though it is difficult to explain what I mean, because I can't really put into words just how I comprehend it. In essence, my belief is that we all have a piece of divinity within us.

I don't know if that was a satisfactory answer to your question, but I'll leave it incase it was of any interest.

[Onfire]

I believe not so much in a "Holy Spirit", but in a consciousness that runs through all.

Are you speaking of a Universal Conciousness that connect all of us together
somehow. Somehow i think the world links every human being together.
let me be detail.

Look at the Sun and Moon, every human being the lived and will live
have seen the same Sun ,moon and walked the same earth as we are doing right
now. Could you right know think there a higher conciousness that is the base of our existing

[Meklo]

Are you speaking of a Universal Conciousness that connect all of us together
somehow. Somehow i think the world links every human being together.

Yes, that is pretty much what I was getting at. I'm not sure what you mean by the "Sun, Moon, Earth" comment. By a higher "Consciousness that is the base of our existance", do you mean God? I don't believe in an active God (as in the Abrahamic God) but I do believe that the collective Universe as a singularity is divine to an extent... it's quite difficult to accurately explain what I mean, without it sounding rather stupid. My belief was fairly well summed up by Ghandi:

“The ocean is composed of drops of water; each drop is an entity and yet it is a part of the whole; ‘the one and the many’. In this ocean of life, we are little drops. My doctrine means that I must identify myself with life, with everything that lives, that I must share the majesty of life in the presence of God. The sum-total of this life is God.�

If you don't mind me asking, where are you from, and is English your first language?

[Onfire]

Born in Dominican Republic came to the US when I was 6
English is my primary language but i also speak spanish really good.

[code buttons]

Look at the Sun and Moon, every human being the lived and will live
have seen the same Sun ,moon and walked the same earth as we are doing right
now. Could you right know think there a higher conciousness that is the base of our existing

This is not true from a science perspective, Onfire. Matter/energy is never still, and never in the same place on a space/time scale. It's always in motion at such rate of speed that would make your ears pin all the way back to Alfa-Centaura if you ever felt it.

[Onfire]

Look at the Sun and Moon, every human being the lived and will live
have seen the same Sun ,moon and walked the same earth as we are doing right
now. Could you right know think there a higher conciousness that is the base of our existing

This is not true from a science perspective, Onfire. Matter/energy is never still, and never in the same place on a space/time scale. It's always in motion at such rate of speed that would make your ears pin all the way back to Alfa-Centaura if you ever felt it.

let me be more detail ,even to this day
wasnt the same sun and moon that plato, Jesus, descartes, Einstein,
look up to is the same we today see.
there is a connection not between us but in what was present here and what will be present in the future, this connection was here before us, before time, before space, before the universe.
somehow it connects life to us, but also connects other dimensions, space and time .

[Lindsay]

ah good, im not the only one who was rearing to start bashing religion.

An interesting and welcome comment.

May I ask: Why do you and others seem to have this need to bash religion?

Keep in mind that I am not questioning your right to do so. Furthermore, I actually applaud your being willing to do so. However, I am curious as to why you feel this need and: What is your goal in so doing? Let's talk!!!

[rhymer]

Hello Lindsay,

You ask a simple question to which some answers seem obvious to me.

People fall into many sets.
Just for the moment, let's just consider the two sets:-

Group 1
Those who have a faith in a religion of some sort, involving a God of some description and Authority.

Group 2
Those who don't fit into that set.

You wonder why some group 2 people 'bash' group 1 people or their beliefs.
(remember now that some group 1 people 'bash' group 2 people, sometimes because creeds dictate that they should, or because such creeds persecute them anyway, or because their beliefs dictate that they should recruit from group 1).

I can think of 3 other reasons why group 1's may bash group 2's.

1. They are not really sure of their of their own beliefs and are unable or unwilling to invest further time in considering other beliefs. (this makes them resistant to other peoples views).

2. They are sure of their own beliefs and think that it is their duty (and possibly responsibility) to try and convince group1's of group 2's beliefs (or just want to put across other ideas).

3. (an extension of 2 above) because they feel that those in group 2 are particularly vulnerable to being used by malicious persons who prey on people who may be seen to be gullible and easily led (ie., people who accept improbable situations, as far as they are concerned).

At the end of the day, as has been said elsewhere, it seems to be impossible at the moment to prove the existence or non-existence of Gods and external Authority. It seems to me, therefore, that each should be able to have equal access to all information and make up their own minds.

I don't have the slightest doubt, knowing human behaviour as it seems to me, that this 'conflict' will continue until a God appears unto us or we are wiped out (probably by mankind, but possibly Nature).

I do know that I fear Mankind much more than all the other forces of Nature.

[Lindsay]

name='rhymer' date='May 27, 03:22 PM' post='65236'
Hello Lindsay, You ask a simple question to which some answers seem obvious to me...

Excellent response, Rhymer.

At the end of the day, as has been said elsewhere, it seems to be impossible at the moment to prove the existence or non-existence of Gods and external Authority.

As you will note, in my signature I am now using the following way of writing the god-concept: GØD. For some time now, when I converse with people about theology and the god-concept, I have made it clear that I am not a typical monotheist, one who believes in a god called God, who appears to have a male gender like that depicted in much of the Bible. I suppose one could say that I am a non-theist. But in no way am I a contra-theist.

ELOHIM, THE HIGHEST POWER &THEOS, and GØD, THE HIGHEST IDEA
The ancient Hebrews used the word Elohim as their name for the supreme power behind all things. The ancient Greeks used Theos. Using folk etimology, I believe that a good case can be made that our word 'god' and 'good' are related. For example, 'goodbye' is Old English for 'God be with ye.' Therefore, English speakers think of GØD as the good in all things, not just that which is all powerful (omnipotent) and all wise (omniscient). Therefore, GØD, is the one, powerful and good idea in and through all that IS.

For me--you are free to have your own ideas--therefore, GØD is the one powerful and good idea in and through all things, including that which appears to evil. Check out 'panentheism' in Wikipedia. Because it can be confused with pantheism, instead of 'panentheism' I prefer to use the doublet, unitheism--GØD is The Oneness. I find it impossible to deny that I am one with this Oneness any more than, like Descartes, I can deny my own existence. Therefore, with him I can say: I think, therefore, I am. In addition, I can csay: I am; what I think, believe and feel--good, bad or indifferent. This is my religion.

BTW, I agree with you when you write

It seems to me, therefore, that each should be able to have equal access to all information and make up their own minds.

I don't have the slightest doubt, knowing human behaviour as it seems to me, that this 'conflict' will continue until a God appears unto us or we are wiped out (probably by mankind, but possibly Nature).

I also agree that we have the power to be one with GØD, or one with NOTHING. The choice is ours

as you put it

I do know that I fear Mankind much more than all the other forces of Nature.

[Guest]

Jesus´teaching was "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is within you".
The word "repent" in Greek -- metanoia -- means "change your mind", "change your consciousness".
The Truth of Reality, the Essence of Reality, is simple. So simple that Jesus did not need to make up a lot of rules for anyone to follow.
In fact, He ended up with only one commandment. He said, in John 15:12, "This is my commandment: love one another, as I have loved you."

[Lindsay]

...He (Jesus) said, in John 15:12, "This is my commandment: love one another, as I have loved you."

Right on, guest. Now, what interests me is: What are the moral, ethical and practical implications of this?

[Joesus]

To love without conditions leaves morality, ethics and practice without boundaries.

[Guest]

Lindsay,
You´re asking the question to which you know the answer.
Didn´t Jesus make it very clear ?

We need moral and ethical rules and principles when there is no LOVE in our hearts.

[Lindsay]

To love without conditions leaves morality, ethics and practice without boundaries.

Not quite correct. Interestingly, Paul--the great apostle and framer of the policies of early Christianity--the same one who wrote the famous words about Christian love in 1 Corinthians 13, also said to the freeloaders in at Thessaloniaca (see 2 Thess. 3:6-15) also wrote: "Whoever refuses to work is not allowed to eat."
The New Testament Greek for 'love' is AGAPE. Modern Greeks, when they want to say, "I love you" still say, "Agapo". The 'o'--short for 'ego', on the end of the word, serves the same function as our 'I'
Unlike EROS--sensual love, from which we get our word 'erotic'--and PHILIA--love of a friend, and from which we get 'philosophy', AGAPE does not depend on how we feel, but on what we WILL to things and for others. I like to say that it arises in our willings, not just in our feelings.
The following is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape
=========================================

(FROM WIKIPEDIA)--Agapē (written αγάπη in the Greek alphabet, and pronounced /aga̍pe/ or /a̍gape/), is one of several Greek words meaning love. The word has been used in different ways by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors. Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, thoughtful love. Greek philosophers at the time of Plato used it in a way that suggested love of that which is below you, rather than philia, love between friends or equals, and eros, love of that which is above you. Eros was seen as the lowest, and agape as the highest. The term was used by the early Christians to refer to the special love for God and God's love for humanity, as well as the self-sacrificing love they believed all should have for each other.

Agape can be defined as an intentional response to promote well-being when responding to that which has generated ill-being (Thomas Jay Oord). Agape, to use the Biblical phrase, returns evil with good. It is a prominent term in the works of C.S. Lewis.
Contents
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The greatest commandment

When asked what was the greatest commandment, Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Gospel of Matthew 22:37-41)
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Love for enemies

At the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said:

You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Thus, agape, as a form of love, is both unconditional and volitional, i.e., it is non-discriminating with no pre-conditions and is something that one decides to do.
[edit]

Paul's descripton of love

Paul described love as follows: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails." (First Epistle to the Corinthians Chapter 13, verses 4-8a). In the original Greek language text that these descriptions of agape are all in verbs, a matter of action, although most languages, such as English, need to translate this using adjectives..
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John's definition of God

John equated God with love in his first letter, (1st John): "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." (1 John 4:7-8 KJV)
[edit]

New Commandment

At the Last Supper, Jesus gave his disciples this final commandment, and declared love to be the defining characteristic of Christianity: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:34-35) Jesus went on to say "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13) Thus Jesus' sacrificial crucifixion epitomizes Christian love, an example for his disciples to follow.

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