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> Stablon is a smart drug
dutch84
post Jul 20, 2006, 03:50 PM
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Does anyone know anything about it's effects on dementia patients?
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dutch84
post Jul 20, 2006, 05:44 PM
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How does it effect schizophrenics?
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kLee
post Jul 21, 2006, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE(dutch84 @ Jul 21, 02:50 AM) *

Does anyone know anything about it's effects on dementia patients?



Maybe these are helpful:

[The study of the efficacy of fluoxetine versus tianeptine in the treatment of elderly depressed patients followed in general practice]

Guelfi JD, Bouhassira M, Bonett-Perrin E, Lancrenon S.

Universite Paris XI, Hopital Paul-Brousse, Villejuif.

Depression in the elderly appears to be frequently poorly understood and underdiagnosed. The frequency of depressed illness in subjects over the age of 65 years is an important problem of health care. General practitioners are often in the first line of care. The objective of this trial was to compare the efficacy and safety of fluoxetine 20 mg/day to tianeptine 37.5 mg/day in elderly patients suffering from major depressive episode defined according to DSM III-R criteria, Newcastle Depression Scale < or = -20, without associated dementia Mini Mental Status (MMSE), treated by general practitioners in ten different french regions during 3 months. 237 patients were randomised, each patient had to be treated for 12 weeks and was reviewed 5 times during the trial. Patients had signed an informed consent. This trial was in favor of the superiority of fluoxetine compared to tianeptine. The main criterium, defined as the difference of the Montgomery and Asberg Depression Rating scale (MADRS) score between day 0 and day 84, was significantly different in favour of the fluoxetine group (intent to treat and per protocol analysis) (p = 0.019). The success rate at the end of the treatment (MADRS < or = 10) was significantly higher in the fluoxetine group (fluoxetine group: 48.4% vs tianeptine group: 28.1%) (p = 0.005). These results were confirmed by analysis of the other assessment criteria Geriatric Depression Scale (GDS) and Clinical Global Impression (CGI). During the study, the safety of the two treatments was comparable.

PMID: 10434153




Prevention of stress-induced morphological and cognitive consequences.
McEwen BS, Conrad CD, Kuroda Y, Frankfurt M, Magarinos AM, McKittrick C.

Laboratory of Neuroendocrinology, Rockefeller University, New York, NY 10021, USA.

Atrophy and dysfunction of the human hippocampus is a feature of aging in some individuals, and this dysfunction predicts later dementia. There is reason to believe that adrenal glucocorticoids may contribute to these changes, since the elevations of glucocorticoids in Cushing's syndrome and during normal aging are associated with atrophy of the entire hippocampal formation in humans and are linked to deficits in short-term verbal memory. We have developed a model of stress-induced atrophy of the hippocampus of rats at the cellular level, and we have been investigating underlying mechanisms in search of agents that will block the atrophy. Repeated restraint stress in rats for 3 weeks causes changes in the hippocampal formation that include suppression of 5-HT1A receptor binding and atrophy of dendrites of CA3 pyramidal neurons, as well as impairment of initial learning of a radial arm maze task. Because serotonin is released by stressors and may play a role in the actions of stress on nerve cells, we investigated the actions of agents that facilitate or inhibit serotonin reuptake. Tianeptine is known to enhance serotonin uptake, and we compared it with fluoxetine, an inhibitor of 5-HT reuptake, as well as with desipramine. Tianeptine treatment (10 mg/kg/day) prevented the stress-induced atrophy of dendrites of CA3 pycamidal neurons, whereas neither fluoxetine (10 mg/kg/day) nor desipramine (10 mg/kg/day) had any effect. Tianeptine treatment also prevented the stress-induced impairment of radial maze learning. Because corticosterone- and stress-induced atrophy of CA3 dendrites is also blocked by phenytoin, an inhibitor of excitatory amino acid release and actions, these results suggest that serotonin released by stress or corticosterone may interact pre- or post-synaptically with glutamate released by stress or corticosterone, and that the final common path may involve interactive effects between serotonin and glutamate receptors on the dendrites of CA3 neurons innervated by mossy fibers from the dentate gyrus. We discuss the implications of these findings for treating cognitive impairments and the risk for dementia in the elderly.

PMID: 9405958
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kLee
post Jul 21, 2006, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE(dutch84 @ Jul 21, 04:44 AM) *

How does it effect schizophrenics?



Control of ACTH secretion by excitatory amino acids: functional significance and clinical implications.
Jezova D.

Laboratory of Pharmacological Neuroendocrinology, Institute of Experimental Endocrinology, Slovak Academy of Sciences, Vlarska 3, Bratislava 83306, Slovakia. ueenjezo@savba.sk

The involvement of excitatory amino acids in the control of ACTH release is well established. Activation of ionotropic glutamate receptors has a stimulatory effect on ACTH release, while the role of metabotropic receptors is not yet understood in detail. Glutamatergic regulation of ACTH release has a clear significance for the stress response and neuroendocrine functions during development. A dysregulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) axis has been reported in several psychiatric and neurological disorders. So far, only fractional indices on the clinical importance of the interaction between glutamate and ACTH secretion have been obtained in both preclinical and clinical studies. Some antidepressant drugs, such as tianeptine, which were found to modulate ACTH release, appear to interfere with brain glutamatergic system. Changes in ACTH and cortisol release may be of importance for mood stabilizing effects of antiepileptic drugs modulating glutamate release, such as lamotrigine. Brain glutamate and HPA axis interaction seems to be of importance in alcohol and drug abuse. Little information is available on ACTH release in response to glutamate-modulating drugs used in the treatment of schizophrenia and Alzheimer disease. Nevertheless, pharmacological interventions influencing interaction between glutamate and the HPA axis are promising treatment possibilities in psychiatry and neurology.

PMID: 16388118



Plasticity at hippocampal to prefrontal cortex synapses is impaired by loss of dopamine and stress: importance for psychiatric diseases.
Jay TM, Rocher C, Hotte M, Naudon L, Gurden H, Spedding M.

INSERM E 0117, Physiopathologie des Maladies Psychiatriques, Centre Paul Broca, 2ter rue d'Alesia, 75014 Paris, France. jay@broca.inserm.fr

The direct hippocampal to prefrontal cortex pathway and its changes in synaptic plasticity is a useful framework for investigating the functional operations of hippocampal-prefrontal cortex communication in cognitive functions. Synapses on this pathway are modifiable and synaptic strength can be turned up or down depending on specific patterns of activity in the pathway. The objective of this review will be to summarize the different studies carried out on this topic including very recent data and to underline the importance of animal models for the development of new and effective medications in psychiatric diseases. We have shown that long-term potentiation (LTP) of hippocampal-prefrontal synapses is driven by the level of mesocortical dopaminergic (DA) activity and more recently that stress is also an environmental determinant of LTP at these cortical synapses. Stimulation of the ventral tegmental area at a frequency known to evoke DA overflow in the prefrontal cortex produces a long-lasting enhancement of the magnitude of hippocampal-prefrontal cortex LTP whereas a depletion of cortical DA levels generates a dramatic decrease in this LTP. Moreover, hippocampal stimulation induces a transient but significant increase in DA release in the prefrontal cortex and an optimal level of D1 receptor activation is essential for LTP expression. We recently investigated the impact of stress on hippocampal-prefrontal LTP and demonstrated that exposure to an acute stress causes a remarkable and long-lasting inhibition of LTP. Furthermore, we demonstrated that tianeptine, an antidepressant which has a unique mode of action, and clozapine an atypical antipsychotic when administered at doses normally used in human testing are able to reverse the impairment in LTP. Stressful life events have a substantial causal association with psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and depression and recent imaging studies have shown an important role of the limbic-cortical circuit in the pathophysiology of these illnesses. Therefore, we proposed that agents capable of reversing the impairment of plasticity at hippocampal to prefrontal cortex synapses have the potential of becoming new therapeutic classes of antidepressant or antipsychotic drugs.


PMID: 15325962
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dutch84
post Jul 21, 2006, 01:51 PM
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Thanks kLee. That was very helpful.
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Lummar
post Jul 28, 2006, 05:30 AM
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I just found this place yesterday and have recently been introduced to Stablon, though I haven't tried it yet. But it appears to be exactly what I need. I basically suffer from PTSD, as a result of an abusive parent. I truely believe there has been severe damage done to my hippocampus and hypothalamus, as a result. Over the past month I've been using CES (cranial electro-stimulation) to pretty good results. There is evidence that CES works to stimulate and heal parts of the limbic system.

Anyway, I'm really excited to add Stablon into the mix. I'm weary though of meds, but this one appears much different from your standard SSRI's. I've been on Paxil before and I don't want to go through that hell again.

Thanks for the invaluable info on Stablon and I'll let you know my progress as it comes.

-Lummar
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dutch84
post Aug 17, 2006, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE(Lummar @ Jul 28, 05:30 AM) *

I just found this place yesterday and have recently been introduced to Stablon, though I haven't tried it yet. But it appears to be exactly what I need. I basically suffer from PTSD, as a result of an abusive parent. I truely believe there has been severe damage done to my hippocampus and hypothalamus, as a result. Over the past month I've been using CES (cranial electro-stimulation) to pretty good results. There is evidence that CES works to stimulate and heal parts of the limbic system.

Anyway, I'm really excited to add Stablon into the mix. I'm weary though of meds, but this one appears much different from your standard SSRI's. I've been on Paxil before and I don't want to go through that hell again.

Thanks for the invaluable info on Stablon and I'll let you know my progress as it comes.

-Lummar


Lummar, any progress? What happened?
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Darksanity
post Sep 11, 2006, 05:19 PM
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Will Stablon have any effect taking it the first time or it has to be used for a long time before noticing any effects? Thanks!
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Survector
post Oct 08, 2006, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE(Darksanity @ Sep 12, 2006, 08:19 AM) *

Will Stablon have any effect taking it the first time or it has to be used for a long time before noticing any effects? Thanks!


Hi! :-) I've been on Stablon since March 2005 for major depression and panic disorder at a dosage of 12.5mg QID (4x/day) and didn't notice any effects until day 12 of treatment (12.5mg TID). I felt a sudden onset of what seemed to be adrenaline (although that's probably not what it was) and it lasted for a few days along with feeling jittery but it didn't give me any panic attacks (I have panic disorder, so I'm prone to them). A reduction in appetite was noted. I adjusted the dosage during this time of "activation" and with time I felt my mood improving and anxiety and other general tension decreasing - all without any sedation whatsoever. The jitteriness and "adrenaline-ish" feelings subsided after a few days. SSRIs, on the other hand, produced far worse side effects (for me anyway). I haven't been able to tolerate any antidepressant as well as I have been able to tolerate Stablon...and this one lacks cardiotoxicity since it doesn't affect the sodium channels in the heart.

It took about 4 to 6 weeks to feel the full antidepressant effect and with time its anxiolytic effect becomes more fully pronounced. I do best on 4 tablets a day, rather than 3. I felt three tablets per day to be subtherapeutic, but everyone reacts to medications differently.

Do you have asthma? I do and it really made a difference there. Stablon improves the clinical picture of asthma by removing free serotonin from the bloodstream. Read this website on wikipedia to find out more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine

If I take two Stablon at once, I can feel a swift mood brightening effect which is pleasurable and I feel more social and better able to concentrate. Rarely, I will experience an "Ecstasy"-like effect where I feel so comfortable and want to touch or hug something... this never happened with any other antidepressants I've tried. It's only happened 5 times or less in the entire time I've been on Stablon, but I loved that. I have never taken MDMA though, but when I described this unique effect to friends with knowledge of MDMA, they said this sounds like a very mild "Ecstasy"-like effect.

I've never experienced any withdrawal symptoms from it. When I did reduce the dosage (all the way down to 1 tablet per day, albeit gradually over a 2 to 3 week period), I just felt anxiety and depression returning, but not in any rebound sort of fashion.

I'm also on diazepam (Valium) and Stablon seems to make it much easier to taper downward my dosage. Stablon has been shown to block panic attacks as effectively as Paxil.

The reason you must take it at least 3 times per day is because it has a short half-life.

I am glad I found Stablon. I can also get Survector (amineptine) and you are welcome to ask me about how to get it legally, because it is legal in many countries and it is still available where I live, although it is just remaining stock. For example, it is not scheduled in the US or the UK.
I know a lot of people have asked me about Survector and Stablon in other forums on the internet. I would recommend it for non-neurotic depression and recommend Stablon for any type of depression, especially depression with neurotic features as it is anxiolytic too.
I would especially recommend it for anyone who wants to preserve their sex drive, because as is well-known, SSRIs destroy the libidos of many and have even caused what is known as PSSD (Post-SSRI Sexual Dysfunction) which persists for months and even years after discontinuing the SSRI.

Recent research has shown that it does increase dopamine in the nucleus accumbens and cortex and this may play a role in its antidepressant effect and why this drug has no sexual side effects. If anything, it may increase libido, but I haven't seen any studies. Oops, there is a study on that website I listed earlier in my post... a study done in Egypt where it helped men with erectile dysfunction and associated depression.

I just think, in conclusion, that the full effect of Stablon will make itself known in the long term. I know that for myself I have noticed more benefits in the long term (i.e. months). It has helped my depression, anxiety and asthma and I would never give it up for anything else.
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rhymer
post Oct 09, 2006, 02:56 PM
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Hi Survector,

A very informative post there!

In particular, you point out that it is for everyone to find their 'best' medicine.

I would love to try stabilon since good reviews abound, but can't for the life of me understand why it should still be effective when it works in the opposite way to most other antidepressants.
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tyrntlzdking
post Feb 09, 2007, 02:32 PM
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[/quote]

I can also get Survector (amineptine) and you are welcome to ask me about how to get it legally, because it is legal in many countries and it is still available where I live, although it is just remaining stock. For example, it is not scheduled in the US or the UK.

[/quote]


I would be interested in knowing how to purchase Survector (amineptine) legally.


Let me know.

Thanks
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martynx
post May 11, 2007, 03:55 AM
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Me too - ive tried some "research grade" amineptine & would like to try the original survector product before crossing it off my list..

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NISARG
post May 23, 2007, 12:56 AM
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I am a very big supporter of Stablon...and I believe no other drug in the antidepressent catagory is so good as stablon...it really changed my life .....when I was having depression.....I 100% recommand it.. though on your own risk and with appropriate causion...different drugs effect differently with each other...so...
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PhilMcCock
post May 23, 2007, 09:53 PM
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My doctor just prescribed me effexor xr . I took one pill and researched this drug and no way I'm taking that poison. I am very interested in Stablon and little interested in Survector. Where is the best place to buy these?

Jimiam
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NISARG
post May 24, 2007, 02:01 AM
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PhilMcCock,

Google : Buy Stablon....

Most people buy it from "AuraPharm" named website....but it takes 4 weeks to arrive....though it is comparatively cheap.
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Robert
post Jun 26, 2007, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE(rhymer @ Oct 09, 2006, 02:56 PM) *

Hi Survector,

A very informative post there!

In particular, you point out that it is for everyone to find their 'best' medicine.

I would love to try stabilon since good reviews abound, but can't for the life of me understand why it should still be effective when it works in the opposite way to most other antidepressants.



I trust this has been some time since a last post. I would like also access to SURVECTOR if possible. Thank you an advance.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 26, 2007, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE(PhilMcCock @ May 24, 2007, 12:53 AM) *

My doctor just prescribed me effexor xr . I took one pill and researched this drug and no way I'm taking that poison. I am very interested in Stablon and little interested in Survector. Where is the best place to buy these?

Jimiam


See supplier list for a safe secure place to order.
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Seth409
post Jul 27, 2007, 08:58 AM
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Hello all,

I have been battling depression for years and have found Stablon to be the first drug that has actually helped me with no side effects. The problem is that I'm in the US and for reasons I can't go into here, I need a legal prescription. I would be willing to go to France if I had to, but does anybody know of the closest place to the US where I can see an MD to get a prescription? Is it possible, for example, to get it in Bermuda or Canada? If anybody knows an MD I could contact, it would really help.

With thanks in advance,

Seth
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LifeMirage
post Jul 28, 2007, 06:05 AM
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QUOTE(Seth409 @ Jul 27, 2007, 11:58 AM) *
Hello all,

I have been battling depression for years and have found Stablon to be the first drug that has actually helped me with no side effects. The problem is that I'm in the US and for reasons I can't go into here, I need a legal prescription. I would be willing to go to France if I had to, but does anybody know of the closest place to the US where I can see an MD to get a prescription? Is it possible, for example, to get it in Bermuda or Canada? If anybody knows an MD I could contact, it would really help.

With thanks in advance,

Seth


Have it sent to a PO box.
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CxV8
post Jul 28, 2007, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE

I can also get Survector (amineptine) and you are welcome to ask me about how to get it legally, because it is legal in many countries and it is still available where I live, although it is just remaining stock. Seth


Does anyone know a present source for amineptine? I have come across one that asks a payment with Western Union but I'm not sure about the quality of the source. Amineptine and Emsam sound like best solutions for my depression. I find it ironic that neither of the medicines can be bought from Europe at the moment, even with prescription.

-Cx
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Inner Traveler
post Nov 11, 2007, 07:12 AM
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Hello everyone:

I want to add to this discussion about Stablon,
out of a sense of gratitude, and to state my
experience with it just in case someone else
should stumble upon this website--like I did.

First a little background: This past summer, I
was experiencing quite a severe depressive
episode--mostly due to the break-up of a long
term relationship. What I knew I didn't want to
take was Prozac or another SSRI.

So, I placed an order for (3) month's supply
with Aurapharm--which took about four weeks
to arrive here in the U.S.--and to my surprise
the package came from Turkey, apparently Servier
has a facility there too.

My experience is that it does'nt come on strong like
taking Prozac did, more gentle, I feel as though I'm
taking medicine for my soul! and once again finding
pleasure and meaning in Life's day to day activities.

A special thank you to Life Mirage--whose comments
on this topic I felt to be informative and meaningful.

Inner Traveler
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Matzah
post Nov 30, 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(LifeMirage @ Apr 25, 2006, 11:15 AM) *

For a healthy person yes.


I am currently taking Effexor and Celexa, having some success with this "cocktail". I would like to switch to Stablon but am concerned about adverse reactions. Certainly there are others in my shoes so to speak. In the U.S., Stablon is not available so we make due with what we have. Any advice on how to begin taking this med without having my head explode from the meds I currently take??


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Molitor
post Dec 01, 2007, 09:27 PM
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While I, personally, would rather jump off the roof headfirst onto a thumbtack than ever take another SSRI, the argument over whether Stablon is superior is misplaced. Even if it's as clinically effective as, say, Lexapro, that doesn't in any way mean it can replace Lexapro because the people who respond to Stablon aren't necessarily the same people who respond to Lexapro.

I'm skeptical of Stablon's amazing colossal brain-fixin powers, or that it's any kind of breakthrough. But if it's an effective antidepressant, then it's too bad it's not available in the U.S. A wider range of treatment options would benefit everyone.


QUOTE
I am currently taking Effexor and Celexa, having some success with this "cocktail". I would like to switch to Stablon but am concerned about adverse reactions. Certainly there are others in my shoes so to speak. In the U.S., Stablon is not available so we make due with what we have. Any advice on how to begin taking this med without having my head explode from the meds I currently take??


Effexor and Celexa? If you don't mind me asking, how did you arrive at this combination? Even with Stablon's mild side-effect profile, I can't imagine how adding it to Effexor and Celexa would actually make you feel good. But then, I've seen weirder cocktails that seem to work for people.

If you're getting some response, but not satisfied, before you bail on you current cocktail, you might try a trial of Deplin. AFAIK, Deplin's active ingredient, L-Methylfolate, is only available by prescription at that dose. All the details, and a coupon, are on Deplin dot com.

I'm curious about Deplin, because if it's an antidepressant enhancer, it might have some potential as a cognitive enhancer enhancer.

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Supernova
post Dec 02, 2007, 12:31 PM
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How about some brain games? do they have the same effect of smart drugs without the side effects? Or maybe brain games to smart drugs are like going to the gym and taking steroids. Is that a bad comparison?
My gym is usully here www.brainist.com
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sbrown
post Dec 04, 2007, 05:45 AM
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I don't think SSRI's neccesarily make you feel like shit... I've taken them, and though I didn't feel normal, and I did feel emotionally 'numb' I felt better than I did without them...
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Supernova
post Jan 26, 2008, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE(sbrown @ Dec 04, 2007, 05:45 AM) *

I don't think SSRI's neccesarily make you feel like shit... I've taken them, and though I didn't feel normal, and I did feel emotionally 'numb' I felt better than I did without them...


What is SSRI's?
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iris
post Feb 08, 2008, 12:03 PM
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I used to take amineptine and besides Parnate (a long time ago) it was the only antidepressant that helped. It was great. I ordered it to try again a couple of years ago and this time it did not help at all.

I was going to try Stablon now as I have magor cognitive problems. NOt sure why. Had neurological testing done and the tests indicated several cognitive deficits that I did not have in the past. I thought Stablon might help as I have TRD.

Question is I also take oxycontin for pain, valium and ritalin which I was hoping to discontinue with the stablon anyway. But I do not know if these will interact with the Stablon. I emailed Servier and they do not email me back. Does anyone know? IF I have to I will try and call Servier but since they did not respond to my emails I hav doubts about a phone call.

Great information here thanks all.

Thank,
iris
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forgottenpresence
post Feb 21, 2008, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE(Matzah @ Nov 30, 2007, 08:03 PM) *
I am currently taking Effexor and Celexa, having some success with this "cocktail". I would like to switch to Stablon but am concerned about adverse reactions. Certainly there are others in my shoes so to speak. In the U.S., Stablon is not available so we make due with what we have. Any advice on how to begin taking this med without having my head explode from the meds I currently take??


Drop the SSRI's, they cause long term brain damage. It's definitely not worth it in the long run.

They also make you feel enclosed and unreceptive, if you are aware of it.
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Tone
post Mar 05, 2008, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE(iris @ Feb 08, 2008, 02:03 PM) *

I used to take amineptine and besides Parnate (a long time ago) it was the only antidepressant that helped. It was great. I ordered it to try again a couple of years ago and this time it did not help at all.

I was going to try Stablon now as I have magor cognitive problems. NOt sure why. Had neurological testing done and the tests indicated several cognitive deficits that I did not have in the past. I thought Stablon might help as I have TRD.

Question is I also take oxycontin for pain, valium and ritalin which I was hoping to discontinue with the stablon anyway. But I do not know if these will interact with the Stablon. I emailed Servier and they do not email me back. Does anyone know? IF I have to I will try and call Servier but since they did not respond to my emails I hav doubts about a phone call.

Great information here thanks all.

Thank,
iris


Stablon interacts with nothing, with the exception of perhaps Parnate. Stablon will only cause all those things to feel even better. Not 100% sure about the Ritalin, positive about the oxy and valium.
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LifeMirage
post Mar 06, 2008, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE(forgottenpresence @ Feb 21, 2008, 11:06 PM) *
QUOTE(Matzah @ Nov 30, 2007, 08:03 PM) *
I am currently taking Effexor and Celexa, having some success with this "cocktail". I would like to switch to Stablon but am concerned about adverse reactions. Certainly there are others in my shoes so to speak. In the U.S., Stablon is not available so we make due with what we have. Any advice on how to begin taking this med without having my head explode from the meds I currently take??


Drop the SSRI's, they cause long term brain damage. It's definitely not worth it in the long run.

They also make you feel enclosed and unreceptive, if you are aware of it.


Link to SSRI's causing long term brain damage?
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