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> On The Spiritual Laziness And Gullibility Of Christians, Islamic Sheep, Buddhists, And Others Who Cannot Think For Themselves
Joesus
post May 18, 2006, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ May 18, 08:37 PM) *

Joesus is falsely identifying with the universe and speaks on behalf of the universe though my question was obviously about what he, as a person, has done with regard to science, which I suspect is very little or nothing, thereby confirming my claim that he is not in a position to speak about science except as an outsider who does not understand what it's about.

Mental masturbation Lucid. You're attempting to classify me within your personal system of measure, the same way you have clumped Christians, Islamics and Buddhists into categories of worth.
You really must get in touch with the fear of your own self worth.
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post May 18, 2006, 09:35 PM
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Will you two ever stop?! Or will I have to go through the embarrassement of telling on you and having Shawn come and grab each of you by the ear and make you sit facing the corner till you patch up? I'm gonna start taking bets and make some money here! I'm predicting K.O. in a later round. LOL! Joesus, I'm begining to realize now that your posts really are important in this forum (and not just to keep Lucid busy). I guess this forum would not be the same without them, so keep them coming, please. Besides, you're inching closer and closer to becoming a God here (hard earned and well deserved, may I add). That in itself should be incentive enough, don't you think?
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Lindsay
post May 18, 2006, 09:55 PM
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Joesus writes
QUOTE
...I know there is a lot of good intentions behind the ideas of science but unless science takes into account the spirit of creation that is the mystery of nature then it blinds itself to wisdom and proceeds in a direction of necessity created by belief.
The cover story of the current edition of the United Church Observer--an award-winning magazine, BTW--is about creation http://www.ucobserver.org/
http://www.ucobserver.org/archives/pictures/may06_cover.jpg

WHAT IS YOUR CREATION STORY?
While respecting the creation stories of all peoples, including the one told by modern scientists, readers of the Observer are challenged to write their own creation story. Here is mine, in brief:

It is my humble opinion that once upon a time, before there was what we call space and time, as we know it, there was NO thing. This is not, exactly, the same as saying, there was nothing. That NO thing is what I call absolute spirit. As panentheism teaches, this is that which is in and through all things, or all matter. Matter and mind, as such, came later. To this spirit, I give the special name, GØD. I do this to make it clear that I am not talking about the "God" of theism--one who is separate and apart from the cosmos we know. Orthodox Jews, that is those who have a similar panentheistic view of the divine mind in all things, write the divine name as G-d, which, like GØD, symbolizes all that IS and exists. Within GØD, or God, we all live, move and have our being.

Because there were no things, or beings, with which to relate, this spirit, in my humble opinion, was totally unrelated to anything but itself. Relativity came later. In other words GØD was only potentially complete. At this point--and I agree that this is difficult to imagine--there was no light, and perhaps, no self consciousness as we know and experience it. As Genesis puts it, "Darkness was upon the face of the deep."

But in the fullness of time, in the midst of this chaotic darkness, light appeared. At first, it was an infinitely-small point of light which, in an instant, filled, as if it were a mighty breath of air, the whole of what we now think of as the cosmos. In the fullness of time, this light, acting like an indrawn breath, compacted itself into a primordial ball of matter, which, eventually, began to expand and to break up into billions of light-filled bits and pieces into forms which we call galazies, stars, planets, moons, comets, cosmic dust and the forms of life, including human beings, which appeared, as if by magic, and are still evolving, on earth.

Despite all our knowledge, philosophy, science and art today, much of life is still a great mystery. So far as we now know, all of life, including vegetables, animals and self-conscious human beings, exist only on planet earth, the one we call our home. Meanwhile however, it does seem reasonable to believe that, because there are billions of other planets in billions of galaxies, within and beyond the milky way, there is life, including the human kind, out there, in one form or another. It is highly possible that one day we will find out where these life forms are.

Some people, perhaps most of us, believe that, in a mysterious way, we, along with all things, are related to this mysterious spirit, which most human beings call God. Most Judaeo/Christian people speak of Him as a personal and masculine being, one who created us, as the Bible puts it, "in his own image", and who lives up there in a place called heaven. Bible-believing monotheistic Jews and Christians tell us that God hears and answers our prayers; that He is involved in space, time and history; deists, onther other hand, say that He is behaves like an absent landlord, and leaves all operations on earth to us, his creatures.

By the way, I abhor dogmatism aand the idea that there is only one true religion. I respect any religion that is built on a moral and ethical foundation and a which encourages us to respect all forms of life and to love this planet, even those who are not "religious". However, because I find it impossible to think of this mysterious spirit, in any way shape or form, as an objective being, I prefer to name this spirit using this special symbol, GØD.

Panentheism, or, as I prefer to call it, unitheism, because of the way it defines the god-concept, makes it difficult to actually be an atheist. After all, who can possibly deny the reality of all that IS? Of course, because we have the power to choose between good and evil, anyone can choose to be a contra-theist. That is, we can refuse to be moral and ethical human beings. We can choose to live by the law of the jungle. Many so-called believers do it every day. Look at how mean we can be to one another.

Unitheism is more about orthopraxy. It is more about what we are doing with life than it is about orthodoxy--what we beliefs. Orthopraxy has more to do with deeds than it has to do with creeds. I suspect that this is what John had in mind when he wrote: "God is love."

And what is your story? [KEEP IN MIND. I will be re-editing this story further.]
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post May 19, 2006, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ May 18, 09:55 PM) *

And what is your story?

Science is pretty limited when it comes to the story of the begining of the universe, isn't it? It leaves a lot of empty spaces. We are limited by our cognitive abilities to think or imagine beyond this space/time "buble" (as Plato calls it) we're trapped in. So my story starts four billion years ago (see? I am already being constrained in this trap) when cosmologists believe the universe started (but what was before that, and how?). Out of an infinitecimally small point beyond which time and space did not exist yet. And then the Big Bang. And then, here we are! The past doesn't exist and I can't do anyting about while I'm trapped in these conditions. Only the present matters to me, as it gives me the ability to help construct the future which does not exist either. But which is filled with all possibilities because, unlike in the past, I'm here and now ( what matters is OnlyNow... Hey, that name makes sense, now!). That's my story (full of empty spaces!).
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Plato
post May 19, 2006, 05:58 AM
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moved too
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post May 19, 2006, 06:02 AM
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QUOTE(Plato @ May 19, 05:58 AM) *

Lindsay that is a really good question. So I am spending some time this morning answerng this.

I can hardly wait for your answer to this one, Plato!
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Plato
post May 19, 2006, 07:07 AM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ May 19, 07:02 AM) *

QUOTE(Plato @ May 19, 05:58 AM) *

Lindsay that is a really good question. So I am spending some time this morning answerng this.

I can hardly wait for your answer to this one, Plato!



Just click on the picture above, Code Buttons:)
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lucid_dream
post May 19, 2006, 07:26 AM
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Joesus, I am just making the observation that you are not scientifically inclined; in fact, your beliefs regarding the One and awareness would not stand up to scientific scrutiny even though you will incorrectly claim they are all beyond science. They are not. You are just afraid to expose your beliefs because you know they will be torn down. Confront your fear!
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Joesus
post May 19, 2006, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ May 19, 03:26 PM) *

Joesus, I am just making the observation that you are not scientifically inclined; in fact, your beliefs regarding the One and awareness would not stand up to scientific scrutiny even though you will incorrectly claim they are all beyond science. They are not. You are just afraid to expose your beliefs because you know they will be torn down. Confront your fear!

You are making your observation from the box you have created in which you standardize your perceptions of truth and worth. You chastize anyone who does not share your box.
I don't live in your box, and I don't share your judgments.
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lucid_dream
post May 19, 2006, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 19, 09:53 AM) *
You are making your observation from the box you have created in which you standardize your perceptions of truth and worth. You chastize anyone who does not share your box.


Well that's just the pot calling the kettle black, now isn't it?
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Joesus
post May 19, 2006, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ May 19, 04:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ May 19, 09:53 AM) *
You are making your observation from the box you have created in which you standardize your perceptions of truth and worth. You chastize anyone who does not share your box.


Well that's just the pot calling the kettle black, now isn't it?

The mirror is clear.
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maximus242
post May 19, 2006, 11:22 AM
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lol you guys are hilarious
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post May 19, 2006, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ May 19, 11:22 AM) *

lol you guys are hilarious


Ha! Ha! Agreed!!!
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Joesus
post May 20, 2006, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE


If…what we focus on grows…if…we create our own realities….if… there are no accidents…thus…no victims…how can the ego twist…and be greedy? Would this concept…idea…belief…. Of a ‘twisting ego’…Be a projection from that which states it? Or as you stated… “Everyone approaches life with their own points of reference.”

Underlying the machinations of the ego are stable universal laws that support any belief and perception of reality. The meaning of you create your own reality extends multidimensionally from its point of origin (absolute/consciousness) through the belief systems of the mind in every stage of consciousness, from sleeping, dreaming, waking and even the lingering shadows of an unstable god consciousness.
Just as a child sees the universe differently than an adult so does the ego twist reality according to belief. Illusions are created through beliefs and often what is real is hidden below the surface appearances or reflections of those beliefs. The ego is a mechanism but a mechanism can be used in many ways and experienced in many ways. In the hands of an inexperienced driver a car can sometimes seem to extend itself beyond the driver in certain weather conditions such as driving in ice and snow. When one knows the mechanisms limitations then the mechanism is serving the master, but when the limitations are placed on the driver then the driver becomes a servant to the mechanism he/she has not mastered the mechanism.
When the driver begins to create mind created illusions about its relationship to the mechanism then the relationship twists into the fantasies that are created by the driver, who then is projecting from both inexperience and pride, to hide its fear of being out of control, to project its mastery, to create the illusion of control and stabilize its identity of being different than the mechanism creating more distance between creator and creation, between Self and self.
There never are any victims, for the conscious choices of the Self/self lead to expanded awareness or delusions of separation in unconsious programs of belief that begin to affect awareness, by obscuring clarity of ones relationship with reality in beliefs created through ego, and in pride created from fear and low self esteem.
Truth of the relationship of creation and creator exists in the universal laws of support, unconditional support, or Love, of the Creator for all aspects of creation. This universal Truth is twisted by egoic beliefs in division, of hierarchy created through judgments that are not from universal truth but from belief in separation, belief in limitations of the creator in the form of limited realities.
The ego is limited to the service of the creator, it in itself is not capable of independant creation other than in thought that is limited to the manifest reality. Consciousness itself is not limited to reality.
The human experience that is aligned with the ego and its boundaries of belief within the context of the relative is limited to the relative experience. The human that is aligned with consciousness itself is not bound by the ego and its beliefs and limited playing field.

QUOTE
“I believe that someone once said that "we live in a universe that is so vast that it cannot be contained in the mind of the human. We can hope to live in union with all that is, but to be so vain or arrogant as to claim we understand it all is not only pointless but a waste of time."

This observation seems to be riddled with judgment…why does one strive for enlightenment?…is not enlightenment the ability to realize…that nothing is pointless…nor a waste of time?…acceptance…understanding…clarity… ‘untwists’…complexity…


True judgment is what Buddha meant by the middle path. To make choices that expand awareness rather than contract. To evolve rather than devolve, this choice is what differentiates humans from animals, this choice is how one recognizes the heart and separates its voice from the voice of the mind that is shrouded in beliefs of separation rather than being clearly seated in union with all things.
This judgment is what gives one the ability to recognize the difference in moving towards a goal and moving further from it.
From the standpoint of consciousness itself direction is irrelevant, but from the awareness of the evolving soul choices are what create evolution and recognition of the Self in its relative status of being and being within creation.
Enlightenment is the Ascended status of the relative, and even if one should make choices to devolve within relative reality, who is to say whether or not one is at the crossroads of Ascension and how choice can make the difference in whether one makes the leap in one lifetime or many more?
Thinkers who would imply the "everything just is" idea, neglect the choice that exists to follow the heart.
The assumption is often made that the heart is the origin of all perceptions of choice.
The enlightened know that when the mind assumes that the special relationship with some one, or the new car, or new clothes are what it would have to find completion and fill the space called need, and identifies these things at the level of the heart in union with all things, that is called illusion.
The heart desires one thing, to always be in union with God and to expand that into infinite realities of experience. The ego that is subject to being more powerful than the driver becomes the master and no longer the servant.
Conscious choices and refinement of awareness puts the driver back in the drivers seat and keeps it there realigning the awareness of consciousness with its creation in experience of creator and creation rather than victim to creation and circumstance.
Judgement, that any choice no matter what it is and no matter what the outcome being without consequence is a contradictory idea when it applies to the evolving soul and its awareness that is seated in separation and deaf to the voice of the heart. In the relative choice has an affect. When the mind is seated in the heart and not in the relative then any choice is experienced as the manifestation of desire, but in the case of the mind that sits outside of the heart any choice will not do to bring itself into union.
There are many roads but not all roads lead to union, it only appears that way to the ones who are travelling because the road seems continuous. The choices that are made, set one on roads that expand and roads that contract and lead away from the goal.
In the terms of the relative if you want to get to California from Idaho, you would travel southwest rather than east, to get there in the shortest amount of time.
If you don't care how much time it takes and if you don't die in the course of taking the eastern route then you get there when you get there. Its just a choice. Enlightenment in one lifetime or many. It took you thousands of lifetimes to get where you are now, why not several thousand more...

From the awareness of Union, (consciousness witnessing itself) the relative is only the reflection of thought. From the awareness of ego identitification, pain, suffering, anger, judgment made in separation and illusion is the Hell described in the Spiritual texts of both the east and the west.
You aren't required to suffer, no one is required to suffer. suffering is a result of belief and the choices that lead to the beliefs in separation.
Suffering is not a "just is" proposition, suffering is an illusion created by the mind in its choice to ignore the heart.
Knowing the difference between illusion and reality begins with the intellect and grows within the experience of separation and enlightenment. It evolves within the path that is the discussion of the Self, choice to listen to the voice of the Self and the ego and the manifestation of that choice, the study of the Self/self. It is in the recognition of cause and effect that takes place within the manifestation of choice within the awareness of truth and illusion, leading to the awareness of Union with all things in the One, and separation in duality.
You don't have to experience anything for the benefit of the Self or for consciousness. Everything is already contained within consciousness. Consciousness by its nature simply creates and expands joy in creating and it needs nothing from anyone to achieve any need whatsoever. So any relative explaination for suffering being in service to god and creation is a lie.
Christ didn't suffer for anyones sins, he came and showed by example, there are no limits to the human condition other than those that are self imposed. If you are not free from limitation then you are living according to your own choice to set the standards of your own experience to the level that they are.
Some say Buddha represented the Truth and Christ was the way. One prepaared the intellect while the other was a living example of action through conscious choice.

Acceptance doesn't come without recognition, without choice, without the action to change ones points of reference. Understanding doesn't come simply from stating positive affirmations, it comes from rising above limitations created within twisted perspectives of reality into the experience of Union with the Self. One must have the Self/absolute as the reference point in all experiences or it becomes a secondary thought that is entertained along with the experiences that are following lesser points of reference based in duality.

Sorry, but enlightenment doesn't just happen to you.
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post May 20, 2006, 03:13 AM
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SACRED IDLENESS

When was the last time you did absolutely nothing ?
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Joesus
post May 20, 2006, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE
Judgment is of the mind, the intellect. The middle way…is just that…it is of the inner journey in which to ‘bridge’ all judgments


Yes it is
QUOTE
…awareness is in perpetual flux…it just is
Yes but the intellect working with awareness is what leads to perception of awareness witnessing itself…
QUOTE
choice is an illusion of the mind, perceiving it has control…through judgment.

Choice is a construct of the intellect, a necessary proponent of movement within awareness for consciousness itself is not only stillness, and is not always reflecting its still status which is perceived through the intellect in its various states of evolution or states of being. The idea of choice being an illusion is a leader, a segue to expand awareness beyond dualistic awareness by threatening the ego and its pride so that the Self can be seen. Choice then becomes imortant in the identification of the Self and the self.
The ego never surrenders to anything that is not created of itself and the heart is a very small voice compared to the loud voice of the ego.
The nature of greed and fear on this planet is the living embodiment of the choice that is being made to follow the ego rather than the heart. If the heart were to be followed by everyone this reality would evolve instantaneously and all disease would cease to exist, all poverty would be unknown and all suffering obliterated for suffering is not of the heart.

QUOTE
“From the standpoint of consciousness itself direction is irrelevant, but from the awareness of the evolving soul choices are what create evolution and recognition of the Self in its relative status of being and being within creation.”


When this is truly realized…then one intuits and responds accordingly, knowing they are not the ‘doer’, but that which ‘does’.

When this is experienced one has felt and experienced the differences of creator and created and experiences both as the same. This is more than an intuitive feeling, it is like breathing, one can be aware of themselves breathing or occasionally let it into the awareness by engaging the minds memory and past experiences to check their position and make relevant conclusions, or be in it, stablilze it in every thought feeling and action rather than leave it lay behind the other intuitive thoughts and feelings. This'd be a choice.

QUOTE
Enlightenment is simply realizing that one ‘does’, but is not the ‘doer’. Enlightenment is simply the unfolding of awareness, and that which ‘does’ cannot govern this unfoldment, however, the mind can perceive that it can, it is the mind that dangles the all illusive carrot that are as choice…
Enlightenment is the awakening of the intellect and awareness to its ascended status. What it is in affect to ones abilities is irrelevant. There are no limits to the human condition other than those that are self imposed.

Mt 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

QUOTE
One cannot choose to follow the heart…it is the heart that beckons, through the longing, and one has no choice but to follow it.

That is a belief. The mind full of chatter will hesitate at the point of surrender and change the outcome by adding to the road travelled. The mind filled with ego will superimpose the truth of bliss of creation to the creator and overlay the beliefs of the mind to its ideas of desire. It will grasp at objects for fullfillment that decay and dissapear.
Suffering is not of the heart and the heart does not desire you to suffer, suffering is the result of a choice to ignore the heart.

King James Version Titus 2
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


QUOTE
The heart is the womb, the void, the cosmic waters, from whence all perception springs.

And perception is relative to the journey or point of awareness.
Are we there yet?

QUOTE
The enlightened know, that there is nothing to know, and all to just ‘Be’ The ‘need’ that you cite, is of the mundane reality…the heart is desire, and when one unfolds the matters of the heart, then desire is understood for the creative force that it is.

Yes and understanding follows expansion 0f experience and intellect. The enlightened also serve in capacity to lead those who seek, to direct choice so that it be productive in expansion of awareness. This has been the service of all masters of every age rather than to interpret action and words to be unnecessary and without meaning they surrender themselves to the direction of universal mind within the construct of the sphere which is created so that it may complete itself in the desire of consciousness itself as it creates from a desire to expand upon itself.

QUOTE
This would be the mind/intellect ‘thinking’ it has choice…perceiving that it is the ‘doer’ of all things…perceiving that it can make itself enlightened through choice…

No this is the intellect thinking it has no choice and laying itself down to the belief that it has no way to rise above the present eexperience dragging the memory along and projecting it into the future paving the way for non-action, sloth, dispair and suffering.

QUOTE
This is called ‘surrendering’…and one can perceive that they ‘let go’…but nothing can be ‘let go of’…it must be understood through harmonizing judgment.

Through the intellect of perception one attains harmony of reality, of creator and creation, of judgment within the construct that is choice to become the creator and affect the outcome of the creation thru the action of surrendering independant thought and becoming the one. Then one moves as the creator rather than the created in duality of thought.

QUOTE
There is no goal…this is as the eternal carrot of the mind/intellect…there is no right way, wrong way, short way or long way…these are constructs of the intellect that instill fear through making choices….heaven or hell

Within the constructs of creation lay the realities of choice and of experience of separation (hell) and union (heaven). These realities persist because they are intended to be experienced. This is the desire and fullfillment of creator and creation. Goals are products of cause and affect. In relative states of consciousness these goals are mileposts of expression and experience of creator and created.
It is pointless to say to a child, "fly" after throwing them off of a cliff. This has no relevance within the mind of the child nor the leading of the heart to the intellects interpretation of reality.
If you stand in one pond you do not stand in another. If you stand in all of them then there is no other.
To say there is no goal is not correct nor is it wrong, it is a statement that applies to another pond, not the one that serves the intention of the whole in surrender but the one that serves you in your personal journey to understand yourself. You have separated yourself from your own creation by denying it in favor of what you call an enlightened ideal. You are experiencing the intuitive knowing of the goal of your life but do not sit there in it. You are thinking of what it is like to be there and do not be there. This is your goal but you do nothing but think about it.

QUOTE
Time/space is a construct of this physical reality…reincarnation is a concept…a function of consciousness…there is only the eternal instant…the now…however, the mind/intellect is that which perceives choices…that perceives a life time after life time, after life time.

Since you have accepted that the physical reality does exist then so must all of its concepts as the function of consciousness. Surrender yourself to all rather than one or the other.

QUOTE
Thought IS the reflection….reflecting and refracting one to many.

Yes but not within the beliefs of duality, they are experienced as separate


QUOTE
Suffering is a perception that can only stem from the perceiving of separation…which is that of perceiving one has choice…in so doing…right or wrong choices are perceived to be made…and one then whirls back and forth through the right or wrong choice…the middle way…is the ‘path’ of harmonizing…it is the path of understanding…wisdom…no choice is right or wrong, for choice is understood as the illusive carrot of the mind.

Choice, or acceptance of separation is what creates suffering or the experience of suffering. Choice is the will of individuality that precedes surrender to the greater reality of union. The mind or intellect that is separate cannot find union without seeking the differences that lay before it in its own creation of illusions. Choice is the path.

QUOTE
Illusion is reality, and reality is illusion…when this is understood…then all just IS…

Isness is not devoid of thought feeling and action at any level of experience or conscious awareness. Therefore acceptance of reality or illusion is the acceptance of what it includes.

QUOTE
We ARE being the experience of Self…through experience…consciousness expands without expanding.

Consciousness in and of itself does not expand this is true, but experience also follows expansion and not all experience is the experience of expansion or being the Self. That is why these conversations take place and why there are no blanket statements that apply to experience of the Self or its being.

QUOTE
The absolute is unbounded…it ‘contains’ nothing…

Yes it contains no thing. but for relative purposes, the idea that we serve the Self through experience leaves us separate and that it has a need rather than a nature to it. The idea is to lead the mind to expansion of thought and experience rather than to absolute statements. This is the process of evolution of awareness.

QUOTE
To show by example…is to experience…but then you stated…“You don't have to experience anything for the benefit of the Self or for consciousness.” that conflicts don’t ya think?

No I don't, do you? If you are the Self then what you do benefits yourself rather than a separate entity, which is the point. But of course you knew that....

QUOTE
Buddha symbolizes the wisdom of the heart, Christ symbolizes the creative potential of mind. Calm the mind of choices/judgment and one ‘moves’ into the wisdom of the heart (taken of the cross and into the tomb/womb)One is but the other, in the reflection of that which IS.

A process that involves choice to meld the absolute stillness of the male (vertical staff of the cross) with the female (horizontal staff of the cross) as it moves outward and to sit at the bindu point or intersection of both and become the hermaphrodite. To bring both into union one has to be able to stay seated in the stillness and accept all aspects of creativity the feminine earth breath that is creation itself and the stillnes of the absolute unchanging, rather than to divide consciousness from its creation and to identify it as a thing or non thing.


QUOTE
Acceptance comes forth through understanding…through understanding that the mind is that which twists through perceived choices…through understanding…that which was perceived as ‘twisted’…is understood at the root. Understanding comes from ‘bridging’ the shadow self to the conscious self…self acceptance comes through unfolding self knowledge…

Yes a process of choosing to separate the mind created illusions of the ego from that which is eternal.

QUOTE
The mind must be honed, it must have great focus, in which to invert into the shadow self, and walk the middle way…the mind that focuses on one reference point…is honing focus. The time comes when the mind must relinquish its perception of control through choices…

The relenquishing of the relative boundaries of the ego is the choice one makes. That one choice becomes the one eternal choice for all eternity, the only choice that exists.

QUOTE
Nor can one make it happen.

No making it happen is not the issue or the idea. Acceptance of reality follows the choice to let go of all thoughts that stand before the one true reality. It doesn't happen on its own it follows the choice to avail ones self to Truth or illusion

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lucid_dream
post May 20, 2006, 10:56 AM
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Where is the substance to these posts? Joesus, when you say "Through the intellect of perception one attains harmony of reality", you realize this is empty fluff, right? For starters, intellect and perception are two different things, so there is no 'intellect of perception'; that term doesn't make sense except in some fluffy way. How do you expect to have a dialogue with anyone when you don't even use words in the right way and don't respect their meanings? It comes across as awefully fishy when you don't play by commonly agreed upon rules for verbal communication.

Are you creating these nonsensical word combinations and verbose fluff because you're trying to hide the fact that you have nothing substantive to say? All smoke and mirrors?
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Joesus
post May 20, 2006, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE(lucid_dream @ May 20, 06:56 PM) *

Where is the substance to these posts? Joesus, when you say "Through the intellect of perception one attains harmony of reality", you realize this is empty fluff, right? For starters, intellect and perception are two different things, so there is no 'intellect of perception'; that term doesn't make sense except in some fluffy way. How do you expect to have a dialogue with anyone when you don't even use words in the right way and don't respect their meanings? It comes across as awefully fishy when you don't play by commonly agreed upon rules for verbal communication.

Are you creating these nonsensical word combinations and verbose fluff because you're trying to hide the fact that you have nothing substantive to say? All smoke and mirrors?

Intellectual perception of reality is subjective. In your case perception is relative to the boundaries or rules of your belief in reality. Given enough time the intellect can expand beyond the limits of reason to embrace more than just a select group of ideas. I say given enough time because eventually as you hold onto your ideas which lead the body into death and reoccuring birth and death, of your physical bodies that are being projected fporward from your beliefs, your soul will bang its head against the wall until it realizes that banging its head against the wall is resulting in the same painful experience lifetime after lifetime of resentment and stress in the manifestation of problems that are separate from you and your creation.
Take this thread for example. "The spiritual laziness and gullibility of Christians, Islamic sheep, Buddhists, and others."
You make reference to what you perceive thru the separated intellect of the ego, rather than the united intellect of an awakened Consciousness. You have placed these beings outside of yourself and seek to fix an external problem. The problem only exists in your perception of reality which is ruled by an unawakened intellect.
Awaken the intellect to allow the perception of Truth and your illusion of problems don't exist in the same form and experience. The problems become spiritual insights into the nature of your personal choices to believe in who and what you are.

If one falls into the hole of their beliefs and cannot see a way out, one who sees ( the greater potential that lives within ones self) does not jump into the hole to join them, it extends itself as the helping hand of potential to lift or raise conscious awareness out of the hole of belief and habit.
Whether you decide to take the hand (choose to evolve) is a choice. You can have your rules, if you wish, and remain common to the group paradigm you choose to believe in, but then, who is being a sheep?
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post May 20, 2006, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 20, 02:18 PM) *
The problem only exists in your perception of reality which is ruled by an unawakened intellect.


That is such a cop-out. In other words, according to you, the problem of world hunger and world poverty is all in my head and in my perception of things. In other words, according to you, everyone else who doesn't subscribe to your warped solipsistic worldview is wrong and are ruled by an unawakened intellect. I think it's obvious who needs to wake up here!

Your warped worldview, Joesus, revolves around the assumption of atman=brahman, which may be interpreted to mean that your experiental essence is equal to the essence of everything. You have no basis for this assumption. You, you're whole entire consciousness and whatever you experience as your essence, are nothing but transient form that will dissolve and change form when your time is up. You are as ephemeral as your warped worldview, but you just can't bear to admit it so you hide behind your fantasies and delusions.

For once in your life, come clean!

If you had any substance to your thoughts and ideas, you would attempt to express them more rigorously, perhaps even scientifically, or at least in a way that they may be deemed falsifiable. Any thoughts and concepts that are not falsifiable are worthless lies. So where is the falsifiable truth in what you say?
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post May 20, 2006, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 20, 02:18 PM) *
but then, who is being a sheep?

and who is the wolf in sheep's clothing?
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post May 20, 2006, 04:34 PM
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The essence of Buddha´s Middle Way can be summed up in a few words: Something too hard snaps. Something too soft folds.

SOUL is a bridge between spirit and body and , as such, is a uniter of opposites. Soul exists in the balance of spirit and matter.
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post May 20, 2006, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE
So where is the falsifiable truth in what you say?

Within the experience of truth


QUOTE
and who is the wolf in sheep's clothing?

What you focus on grows. If you seek demons you will find them.
The point still stands. You rely on your rules of majority and so did those that followed the majority that feared sailing off the edge of the world when it was flat.
There is something inside of you that is beyond the need to follow the herd but you don't believe in it because fear is greater in your universe than love.
QUOTE


What do you know of the soul essence…what does the soul essence mean to you?

Essentially there is only ONE soul of which exudes many facets of creative intelligence. What do I know of your term soul essence? I know that you brought it up and that you have your own belief about what is and that it would most likely fall within the parameters of your recognition and definition of isness.
I also know that if you want to, your going to tell me about it.
QUOTE

How can ones ‘problems’ be separate from oneself, ones creation…ones soul?

When one is not united with ones creation the ego perceives it as separate, that it is happening regardless or inspite of ones personal desires. As such a running program exists in the facet of the soul until it has run its course to come back home so to speak, to return to itself. Like a computer virus that is planted in a hard drive, you can dissassemble the computer and build a new one but if the hard drive is used again it will re-emerge in the new computer. Unless it is physically removed or it evolves it continues to exist.
Many think that one lifetime is it, that reincarnation is a myth and that one facet of intelligence and experience cannot pass from one dimensional sphere in the matrix of time to another, and that all problems created thru belief are only created in the one lifetime. This is not true of course.
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post May 20, 2006, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE
Nah, don’t want too.

Didn't think so

QUOTE
Reincarnation is a concept, that is ‘important’ in expanding perception…allowing for a more expansive ‘way’ in which to understand existence, however…all is the sum total of all experiences NOW…

Yes though there isn't a total, the underlying concepts or universal laws that support experience within the spheres of existence are qualified by boundaries that maintain the reality of time, experience and total time.
Re-incarnation is often misconstrued within the context of time, this being misunderstood the multidimensional aspect of the Self isn't grasped but projected from belief. Experiences that bleed from one experience of the now into another experience of the now are often ignored because the mind is not used to extending perception beyond one thing at a time let alone 1000 things at a time. This is also because the mind that lives within the limits of universal laws, or what are called the Gunas are blocked from perception of multidmensional realities. The mind has to elevate itself in awareness and being to be free of the gunas.

Rise above the three Gunas, and be Self-conscious, O Arjuna. ( 2.45)
-Bhagavad Gita-
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post May 20, 2006, 07:26 PM
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note how Joesus conveniently disregards what he cannot answer or is afraid to answer.
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Joesus
post May 20, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
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post May 20, 2006, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 20, 11:24 PM) *

Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.


polly want a cracker?
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post May 20, 2006, 10:56 PM
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if only you actually had any pearls, but alas, you have nothing but hot air and thinly-veiled narcissistic disorder!
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Joesus
post May 20, 2006, 11:05 PM
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Ok that's it, I officially recognize that you do not want to be my friend..


Sheesh!
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post May 20, 2006, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 21, 12:05 AM) *

Ok that's it, I officially recognize that you do not want to be my friend..


Sheesh!


what does 'friend' mean to you, that they blindly accept what you tell them? I am too rich for that.
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post May 20, 2006, 11:09 PM
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Joesus:
QUOTE
Experiences that bleed from one experience of the now into another experience of the now are often ignored because the mind is not used to extending perception beyond one thing at a time let alone 1000 things at a time.




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