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Event Horizon 32
post Oct 18, 2005, 10:49 AM
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hello im new here so bare with me. smile.gif

I find the field of AI research amazing and would like to know who is at the forefront of this research.

MIT, the Japanese?

we seem to already have computers and robots that can mimic what we do but we still are far from a machine that wants to . has anyone created a "curiosity" program? or a program that records its own experiances?

I mean .... we humans are basicly walking hard drives that record our experiances and apply what we have learned to new tasks. our emotions help keep us nice to each other and our curiosity motivate us to learn something new.

we may never give a machine a soul or Ghost (if you belive in such) but a working interactive AI sounds probable to me .

can some one point me to the best information?

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rhymer
post Oct 18, 2005, 11:36 AM
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hi EH32.

I used Google again and searched for 'current AI research' [without the quotes].

it's good and it's fast - take a look yourself.
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post Oct 18, 2005, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (Event Horizon 32 @ Oct 18, 10:49 AM)
hello im new here so bare with me. smile.gif

I find the field of AI research amazing and would like to know who is at the forefront of this research.

MIT, the Japanese?

we seem to already have computers and robots that can mimic what we do but we still are far from a machine that wants to . has anyone created a "curiosity" program? or a program that records its own experiances?

I mean .... we humans are basicly walking hard drives that record our experiances and apply what we have learned to new tasks. our emotions help keep us nice to each other and our curiosity motivate us to learn something new.

we may never give a machine a soul or Ghost (if you belive in such) but a working interactive AI sounds probable to me .

can some one point me to the best information?

<a href=http://brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=http://www.hydeparklibrary.org/AI_chip.jpg>user posted image</a>

A good starting point could be this guy: Daniel H. Wilson. He holds a Ph D and an M. S. both in Robotics, and he just published his thesis: ‘How to Survive a Robot Uprising’ on paperback. Good readings!
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post Oct 18, 2005, 05:07 PM
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while on the subject, can somebody tell me:
is the movie "Blade Runner" set in a post Tek Singularity world? and why?
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Event Horizon 32
post Oct 18, 2005, 05:19 PM
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thanks for the referances!
hmmmmm... ill have to rent "Blade Runner" again its been awhile since ive seen it.
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Hey Hey
post Oct 19, 2005, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 19, 01:18 AM)
good starting point could be this guy: Daniel H. Wilson. He holds a Ph D and an M. S. both in Robotics, and he just published his thesis: ‘How to Survive a Robot Uprising’ on paperback. Good readings!

You? (It's best to be cynical in these days of robot uprisings!)
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Rick
post Oct 19, 2005, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 18, 06:07 PM)
while on the subject, can somebody tell me:
is the movie "Blade Runner" set in a post Tek Singularity world? and why?

No, Blade Runner (based on Philip K. Dick's novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep) is set in an ordinary science fiction future with flying cars and human-like robots.
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Rick
post Oct 19, 2005, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (Event Horizon 32 @ Oct 18, 06:19 PM)
thanks for the referances!
hmmmmm... ill have to rent "Blade Runner" again its been awhile since ive seen it.

The book is better. Read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Philip K. Dick.
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Unknown
post Oct 19, 2005, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 19, 11:29 AM)
No, Blade Runner (based on Philip K. Dick's novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep) is set in an ordinary science fiction future with flying cars and human-like robots.

Hypothetically speaking, Rick! And help me with the second question: Why (or why not, I suppose)?
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post Oct 19, 2005, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (Unknown @ Oct 19, 03:04 PM)
QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 19, 11:29 AM)
No, Blade Runner (based on Philip K. Dick's novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep) is set in an ordinary science fiction future with flying cars and human-like robots.

Hypothetically speaking, Rick! And help me with the second question: Why (or why not, I suppose)?

that "unknown" was me. forgot to log-in.
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post Oct 19, 2005, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Hey Hey @ Oct 19, 11:21 AM)
[You? (It's best to be cynical in these days of robot uprisings!)

you're going too fast for me, Hey Hey. Elaborate, if you think it's worth the time, please. Be blessed.
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Rick
post Oct 20, 2005, 12:08 PM
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The singularity isn't knowable, so how can a science fiction book or movie be based on it?
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post Oct 20, 2005, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 20, 12:08 PM)
The singularity isn't knowable, so how can a science fiction book or movie be based on it?

The same can be said about paralell worlds. They are scientific speculation, even more so, actually, than Tek Singularity. Yet, Sci-fi book authors have had a feast on the idea ever since it came to light. To the point where renown physicist quote them in their work as valid possibilities: "The Invisible Man" by H. G Wells for example has been quoted by John Gribbin in his books on quantum mechanics.
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post Oct 20, 2005, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 20, 12:08 PM)
The singularity isn't knowable, so how can a science fiction book or movie be based on it?

The same can be said about paralell worlds. They are scientific speculation, even more so, actually, than Tek Singularity. Yet, Sci-fi book authors have had a feast on the idea ever since it came to light. To the point where renown physicist quote them in their work as valid possibilities: "The Invisible Man" by H. G Wells for example has been quoted (correction: Not quoted but 'bibliographically' referred and as recomended reading) by John Gribbin in his books on quantum mechanics.
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Event Horizon 32
post Oct 20, 2005, 02:02 PM
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I agree, there are a few good post Technological Singularity Cyberpunk stories out there .

here are 2 of my favorites both written by Masamune Shirow witch have also been made into Japanese animeted Movies.

Ghost in the shell-

Ghost in the Shell is set in a future not that far from today, and some think that it is an accurate portrayal of the world that will come about in that time-frame. It focuses on the idea of what will happen when technology becomes so powerful that humanity will fuse with it almost entirely. The Internet is the technology used in Ghost in the Shell to show this in the best way. When the Internet achieves such power, people start getting cybernetic brain implants to link their minds to it - thinking that it will make their life easier. However, people always fail to realize that the more complex something becomes, the higher the chances that disorders will start to arise. The Puppet Master - the so-called villain - is depicted as a type of disorder that arises from the vast sea of information created by the Internet. Being aware of it's own existence, the Puppet Master can be called conscious or even alive, a valid point that it tries to make in this film. And since it is the child born from the Internet, its goanna have access to everything linked to the Internet - meaning that it could hack into the minds of anyone who is connected. A certain hack occurs that leaves a person with fake implanted memories. But is it better to live a depressing reality or a happy and meaningful illusion?
Ghost in the Shell's two major protagonists are Kusanagi and Batou - both from an organization called Section 9, which deals with public security. A film that is quite heavy in philosophy and somewhat mediocre in action, mixed with artificial intelligence and that dark, gloomy feeling - creating the perfect recipe and making it not only my favorite anime, but also my favorite motion picture.

Appleseed-

Earth's last city, Olympus, rose from the ashes of a global war on the backs of Bioroids, artificial clones who make up half the city's population. Under the strict guidance of a supercomputer, humanity's last survivors enjoy an idyllic peace, but only on the surface Human terrorists within the military seek a return to power and clash with the government's ESWAT forces lead by the legendary soldier, Deunan Knute, and her boyfriend who is 75% machine. Retrieving the Appleseed will end the conflict, and Deunan alone holds its secret.

just my 2cents smile.gif
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Rick
post Oct 20, 2005, 02:45 PM
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Quoting from "The Consciousness Singularity" on this site by Shawn Mikula:

"The 'Consciousness Singularity' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future ... that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine..."

If part of the definition of the singularity is impossibility of imagining, then no science fiction story can possibly be about it.
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post Oct 20, 2005, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 20, 02:45 PM)
Quoting from "The Consciousness Singularity" on this site by Shawn Mikula:

"The 'Consciousness Singularity' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future ... that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine..."

If part of the definition of the singularity is impossibility of imagining, then no science fiction story can possibly be about it.

You are confusing and interchanging two seperate concepts: Technological as opposed to Consciousness Singularity. My question from the begining referred to the movie "Bladerunner" and how it references to Technological Singularity. And you're coming back at me with Mike's definition of Consciousness Singularity.
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Hey Hey
post Oct 20, 2005, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 20, 12:19 AM)
Be blessed.

? now you've got me.
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post Oct 20, 2005, 03:15 PM
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just go to bed!
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Hey Hey
post Oct 20, 2005, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 21, 12:10 AM)
QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 20, 02:45 PM)
Quoting from "The Consciousness Singularity" on this site by Shawn Mikula:

"The 'Consciousness Singularity' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future  ... that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine..."

If part of the definition of the singularity is impossibility of imagining, then no science fiction story can possibly be about it.

You are confusing and interchanging two seperate concepts: Technological as opposed to Consciousness Singularity. My question from the begining referred to the movie "Bladerunner" and how it references to Technological Singularity. And you're coming back at me with Mike's definition of Consciousness Singularity.

See:

The Coming Technological Singularity
How to Survive in the Post-Human Era
by Vernor Vinge
Dept of Mathematics
San Diego University
1993 Peanut Press

(I only have this as a pdb file for the palm interface, so I can't easily insert extracts of it here. Email me [via a pm] for the pdb file)
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Rick
post Oct 20, 2005, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 20, 04:10 PM)
You are confusing and interchanging two seperate concepts: Technological as opposed to Consciousness Singularity. My question from the begining referred to the movie "Bladerunner" and how it references to Technological Singularity. ...

Also from that Consciousness Singularity page:

"The Consciousness Singularity bears no relation to the Technological Singularity, made famous by Vernor Vinge, and which involves the creation of smarter-than-human machines."

Since Vernor Vinge is a science fiction writer (and a very good one too), as well as a science professor, then I stand corrected. Perhaps a better explanation of why Dick's android story isn't set in a post-techno-singularity world is that he came some years before Vinge's invention of the concept.
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post Oct 20, 2005, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 20, 03:44 PM)
Also from that Consciousness Singularity page:

"The Consciousness Singularity bears no relation to the Technological Singularity, made famous by Vernor Vinge, and which involves the creation of smarter-than-human machines."

Since Vernor Vinge is a science fiction writer (and a very good one too), as well as a science professor, then I stand corrected. Perhaps a better explanation of why Dick's android story isn't set in a post-techno-singularity world is that he came some years before Vinge's invention of the concept.

Well then, those androids in the movie, as smart as they were (smarter than the average human); were no match for their human creator. So I guess that answers my question.
But I still don't buy the idea that just because a concept is 'unknowable', as you put it, it can not be speculated upon by those of us dreamers and story-tellers. I think it happens all the time. Imagination is a powerful human ability, recognized by Einstein himself as being the most important component of a genious character.
And also, I don't think you can corrctly call the Technical Singularity concept an 'invention'. I think it is more of a 'discovery'.
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Hey Hey
post Oct 20, 2005, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 21, 12:15 AM)
just go to bed!

I am in bed! Where else would one compute?
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Rick
post Oct 21, 2005, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 20, 05:54 PM)
...Imagination is a powerful human ability, recognized by Einstein himself as being the most important component of a genious character.

Powerful, perhaps, but not powerful enough to know something that by definition can't be known! Imagining more power than one has is a symptom of wishful thinking.

QUOTE
And also, I don't think you can correctly call the Technical Singularity concept an 'invention'. I think it is more of a 'discovery'.


How can something that hasn't happened yet be a discovery? That it might not occur at all is more than a possibility.

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Hey Hey
post Oct 21, 2005, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (code buttons @ Oct 21, 01:54 AM)
androids

Would a female version be called an oestroid (estroid for you Americans)? Or, for the politically correct, a droid. Or for the vestal virgins, a castroid? This terminology thing is a pain in the ass, or is that haemorrhoid?

Sorry, I'll have to give up giving up coffee!
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Rick
post Oct 21, 2005, 09:30 AM
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"Android" comes from the Greek word meaning "husband." We base the female counterpart's name on the Greek word for "wife," (oes) as you have indicated. However, I don't think that sexual reproduction for machines has been invented yet, so coining a name for a female humaniform robot (Asimov's name for an android) is probably premature.
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post Oct 21, 2005, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 21, 08:11 AM)

How can something that hasn't happened yet be a discovery? That it might not occur at all is more than a possibility.

Teck Singularity might not be a discovery, but it is not an invention either; by definiton
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post Oct 21, 2005, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 21, 08:11 AM)
Powerful, perhaps, but not powerful enough to know something that by definition can't be known!

maybe. But powerful enough to speculate about it.
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Rick
post Oct 24, 2005, 08:54 AM
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Wonder, maybe. Any speculation in the face ot the tech singularity will be way off the mark.

A technological singularity is probably not possible anyway. Apparently exponential trends usually peter out into sigmoidal functions. Moore's law is already showing signs of fatigue.

Here are some more examples:

1. Miles of railroad track: it underwent "exponential" growth in the 19th centrury, but went retrograde in the 1950s.

2. General transportation speed: from ox cart through railroad through airplane, it was exponential until the mid 20th century. Now it's flat. The Boeing 707 I flew to Europe on in the 1960s was 100 mph faster than the Airbus A380 that will fly in the near future.

3. Space travel: men drove cars on the moon in the mid-20th century. 40 years later we just circle the Earth.
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coglanglab2
post Sep 19, 2007, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Oct 19, 2005, 11:29 AM) *

QUOTE(code buttons @ Oct 18, 06:07 PM)
while on the subject, can somebody tell me:
is the movie "Blade Runner" set in a post Tek Singularity world? and why?

No, Blade Runner (based on Philip K. Dick's novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep) is set in an ordinary science fiction future with flying cars and human-like robots.


Agreed.
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