When is the singularity coming? Options

[Unknown]

So when is the singularity coming? How long must we wait? What will it depend on? If the singularity is such a big thing, then why aren't more people discussing it?

[Rick]

The singularity is like a mirage that recedes as one approaches it.

[morpheous]

The singularity is like a mirage that recedes as one approaches it.

Rick, is it female ? :-")

[Rick]

Some people may visualize the singularity as a hole that we pass through, so who knows?

[Cybert]

So when is the singularity coming? How long must we wait? What will it depend on? If the singularity is such a big thing, then why aren't more people discussing it?

Kurzweil gives answers in the matter of decades. I agree with him. And it relates to your last question. We need to start discussing this; we need to start researching with the singularity as a goal.

[Culture]

So when is the singularity coming? How long must we wait? What will it depend on? If the singularity is such a big thing, then why aren't more people discussing it?

Kurzweil gives answers in the matter of decades. I agree with him. And it relates to your last question. We need to start discussing this; we need to start researching with the singularity as a goal.

Well lets first start with making sure that we agree what we think the singulatity is.

The '''Consciousness Singularity''' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a collective state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.

The term "Singularity", is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the Consciousness Singularity because it is beyond our cognitive and imaginative capabilities.

So which would be the one you are referring to?

[Cybert]

So when is the singularity coming? How long must we wait? What will it depend on? If the singularity is such a big thing, then why aren't more people discussing it?

Kurzweil gives answers in the matter of decades. I agree with him. And it relates to your last question. We need to start discussing this; we need to start researching with the singularity as a goal.

Well lets first start with making sure that we agree what we think the singulatity is.

The '''Consciousness Singularity''' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a collective state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.

The term "Singularity", is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the Consciousness Singularity because it is beyond our cognitive and imaginative capabilities.

So which would be the one you are referring to?

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

[Rick]

I think Cybert is referring to Vernor Vinge's technological singularity (not the consciousness singularity). The technological signularity was also popularized in Ray Kurzweil's The Age of Spiritual Machines.

[code buttons]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

Ahh! A dreamer! BM needs more members like you. Dream on! But share them dreams if you wish, please.

[Rick]

... the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

Actually, Jupiter has a pretty steep gravity well. Cruising the asteroid belt would be a better place for resources.

[Cybert]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

Ahh! A dreamer! BM needs more members like you. Dream on! But share them dreams if you wish, please.

Well, I'm a eunuch fundamentalist posthumanist. I want desperately to become posthuman. I guess that makes me a dreamer!

[Shawn]

what has been clear to me for many years is that the development of neuroscience will inevitably lead to the consciousness singularity. We must first understand the system before we can control it to our collective advantage. Otherwise we fumble about in the darkness and remain tied down by our biological constraints.

[code buttons]

I think Cybert is referring to Vernor Vinge's technological singularity (not the consciousness singularity). The technological signularity was also popularized in Ray Kurzweil's The Age of Spiritual Machines.

I think not. He's refering to the Consciousness Singularity. The only one that matters when it comes down to it. The ultimate answer. That point in space and time when we can harness and control the power of nature at the quantum level to our advantage. He may have been misunderstood in this threat but his post in other threads and his message overall points towards that goal.

[Culture]

what has been clear to me for many years is that the development of neuroscience will inevitably lead to the consciousness singularity. We must first understand the system before we can control it to our collective advantage. Otherwise we fumble about in the darkness and remain tied down by our biological constraints.

I completely agree with you Shawn. The question is not whether or not neuroscience will lead us to the consciousness singularity, but rather when and of course how this technology will be made available to people. Ethics/Morals will be another hot topic and one that will have to be overcome to make this a reality.

How far are we away from achieving this singularity? I am quite tired of hearing "new age' ideas of bal;ancing chakras and what not...the hard facts and hinderances are where the real interest lies..

[Cybert]

what has been clear to me for many years is that the development of neuroscience will inevitably lead to the consciousness singularity. We must first understand the system before we can control it to our collective advantage. Otherwise we fumble about in the darkness and remain tied down by our biological constraints.

I completely agree with you Shawn. The question is not whether or not neuroscience will lead us to the consciousness singularity, but rather when and of course how this technology will be made available to people. Ethics/Morals will be another hot topic and one that will have to be overcome to make this a reality.

How far are we away from achieving this singularity? I am quite tired of hearing "new age' ideas of bal;ancing chakras and what not...the hard facts and hinderances are where the real interest lies..

Lump in the mystics with the religious. Stupid people to ignore on the way to the singularity.

[Culture]

what has been clear to me for many years is that the development of neuroscience will inevitably lead to the consciousness singularity. We must first understand the system before we can control it to our collective advantage. Otherwise we fumble about in the darkness and remain tied down by our biological constraints.

I completely agree with you Shawn. The question is not whether or not neuroscience will lead us to the consciousness singularity, but rather when and of course how this technology will be made available to people. Ethics/Morals will be another hot topic and one that will have to be overcome to make this a reality.

How far are we away from achieving this singularity? I am quite tired of hearing "new age' ideas of bal;ancing chakras and what not...the hard facts and hinderances are where the real interest lies..

Lump in the mystics with the religious. Stupid people to ignore on the way to the singularity.

I hear what your are saying. But there are many people who have not been afforded the opportunity to even conceptualise this event. A little patience and perhaps a helping hand would help this come to fruition quicker.

[Culture]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

If you are fortunate enough to be in the environment that allows you to 'evolve' yes.
Probably and unfortunately the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite.

[Cybert]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

If you are fortunate enough to be in the environment that allows you to 'evolve' yes.
Probably and unfortunately the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite.

The big gamble is if you increase their intelligence, will they think differently? Just having less testosterone makes me think a lot more different.

[code buttons]

...the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite...

And how do you figure that this elite will be like? What will their special atributes be? Greate geniouses? Care to elaborate?

[Rick]

Money.

[Cybert]

Money.

The idea is--what are they like after? Sure some tycoon or heir may fund his way to cyborgness--but afterwards he may become generous.

[code buttons]

Money.

I couldn't disagree with you more. If ever the "source of all evil" had anything to do with bringing forth such an important event to humanity then you can count me out of it. I'd rather just peacefully, quietly ease myself down into oblivion than be part of such disfunctional entrerprise.

[Culture]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

If you are fortunate enough to be in the environment that allows you to 'evolve' yes.
Probably and unfortunately the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite.

The big gamble is if you increase their intelligence, will they think differently? Just having less testosterone makes me think a lot more different.

Cybert would you agree that increased intelligence = thinking differently? I do not see how one could seperate this at all. Should I infer that testosterone is an obstacle? My testosterone levels are high and although this can lead to explosiveness it also leads to driven (disciplined) thinking.

[Culture]

[quote name='Culture' post='69403' date='Sep 14, 2006, 12:00 PM']
...the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite...
[/quote]


[quote name='code buttons' date='Sep 14, 2006, 12:40 PM' post='69413
And how do you figure that this elite will be like? What will their special atributes be? Greate geniouses? Care to elaborate?
[/quote]

Special attributes would encompass faster computation/calculation and enhanced memory recall.
Yes great geniuses.

[Rick]

... --but afterwards he may become generous.

I doubt it. The already greedy elite are more likely to become even more power-mad.

[Cybert]

Well, I try to think what it will be like. I would like to be alone, with a partner, or with a small group. Lightyears away from anyone else. I'd like the resources of a planet the size of jupiter. I think we can imagine that.

If you are fortunate enough to be in the environment that allows you to 'evolve' yes.
Probably and unfortunately the most important advancements will be reserved for a
few elite.

The big gamble is if you increase their intelligence, will they think differently? Just having less testosterone makes me think a lot more different.

Cybert would you agree that increased intelligence = thinking differently? I do not see how one could seperate this at all. Should I infer that testosterone is an obstacle? My testosterone levels are high and although this can lead to explosiveness it also leads to driven (disciplined) thinking.

I don't know if my IQ (if you can measure that) went up. I think it did.

[GodConsciousness]

I think there is likely to be a fundamental difference between the evolution of a technological singularity and a singularity of consciousness even though they may develop in tandem (or if at all). There is no doubt in my mind that we are continuing to evolve and this is being hastened by our technological breakthroughs. Yet, my feelings are that we still have a long way to go (perhaps contra Kurzweil). Sure, AI and genetic research (along with advances in the neurosciences) are likely to bring about fundamental changes in the ways humans orient their lives, but a singularity could take thousands of years to fully mature and I am not entirely convinced at the moment that it ever may actually ensue given the state of human affairs today.

[cerebral]

a singularity could take thousands of years

this seems a pessimistic assessment that disregards the exponential growth of our knowledge and advance of technology. I think 10-50 yrs is a fairly conservative estimate.

[GodConsciousness]

Trust me, I wish the singularity would unleash itself upon us NOW.

Yet, despite our remarkable advances, I am not quite sure we are even close to ready as a species for what could occur. Further, it has taken life billions of years (perhaps even more) to come to where we are. I don't think its pessimistic to suggest we may still have thousands (maybe billions) of years yet to evolve.