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> Trancendental Numbers
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post Feb 23, 2005, 04:56 PM
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the definition of a transcendental number:

transcendental number: a real number that is not the root of any polynomial with integer coefficients.

TT and e are transcendental.



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post Feb 23, 2005, 06:13 PM
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they also can't be represented by a ratio (i.e., they are 'irrational')
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post Feb 23, 2005, 07:32 PM
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√2 is irrational and is a root of the polynomial equation x2 − 2 = 0.
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post Feb 24, 2005, 05:03 PM
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Here is some more on irrational numbers.
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post Feb 24, 2005, 05:56 PM
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QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Feb 23, 07:32 PM)
√2 is irrational and is a root of the polynomial equation x2 − 2 = 0.

all transcendental numbers are irrational, but not all irrational numbers are transcendental
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post Feb 24, 2005, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 24, 08:03 PM)
Here is some more on irrational numbers.

My My Rick, R u A #'S mAn?

Interesting.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 09:41 AM
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The nonexistent world of ideas, numbers, abstractions, algorithms, et cetera, is very interesting indeed.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 10:17 AM
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I would say that thinking and counting and otherwise imagining stuff can sometimes be a positive experience
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post Feb 25, 2005, 11:37 AM
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And as we know, experiences are things that, like atoms, exist.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 04:13 PM
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'experiences' aren't things like atoms, but both atoms and experiences really happen
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post Feb 25, 2005, 04:26 PM
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I think they're things. Not like atoms in many ways, but things just the same. What's missing is a physical theory for them.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 04:45 PM
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to me, things are 'out there', while quales are 'in here'. The mathematics of things is 1+1=2 while the mathematics of quales is 1+1=1 or something like that
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post Feb 25, 2005, 05:04 PM
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Dan, I missed it. What the... is a quale?

The only quale that I know of looks and tastes like bar clams.

quale - luid?
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post Feb 25, 2005, 05:07 PM
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Experiences are the electrical activity that occurs at the molecular level, when certain clumps of physical material (atoms) combine and do their thing.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 05:08 PM
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I wonder then, are #'s made up of atoms?
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post Feb 25, 2005, 05:29 PM
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http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia/
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post Feb 25, 2005, 06:22 PM
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The Four Fources

listed in decreasing strength:

Nuclear 10^3 1,000
Electromagnetic 1
Weak 10^-11 1/100,000,000,000
Gravitational 10^-39

These are the 4 ways in which the various particles that make up the universe can interact with one another.

Each interaction creates a force.

Every particle in the universe is the source of one or more of these forces.

Each particle serves as the center of a volume of space in which that force exists.

A force feild is the volume of space in which that force is felt.

If a particle can serve as the source of a particular field it will respond to such a field set up by another particle.

The response is generally one of movement where the particles move toward one another (attraction) or away from each other (repulsion).

Unless physically restrained from doing so...
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post Feb 25, 2005, 06:26 PM
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...and it is only in the nucleus, the center of an atom, in the immediate neighborhood of isolated particles, that these forces exist.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 06:44 PM
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Particles are not likely to respond to all 4 forces.

For instance, only hadrons produce and respond to the nuclear force.

hadron - from the Greek for 'strong', since the nuclear is the strongest.

The two nucleons (the proton and the neutron) are the most common and most important to the structure of the universe.

Ernest Rutherford, a British physicist, discovered the proton in 1914, and its name comes from the Greek for 'first' because at the time of its discovery it was the smallest object known to have a positive electric charge.

James Chadwick, also an English physicist, discovered the neutron in 1932. It carries no electric charge, neither positive nor negative, so it is essentially neutral electrically, hence its name.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 07:17 PM
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The atom contains almost all of its mass in a very small region at the center in the nucleus.

The proton is a 'relatively' massive particle that must be located in the nucleus.

Each atom type contains a different # of protons in its nucleus.

Hydrogen 1
Helium 2
lithium 3
....
uranium 92

So what holds all of these protons toghther in tight proximity inside the nucleus?

The gravitational force is to weak to hold the protons together.

The electromagnetic force?

Yes, it is strong enough, however it can only manifest itself as either an attraction or as a repulsion. Between two particles of opposite electric charge (+ & -) their occurs attraction and when two particles exhibit the same electric charge (+ & +, - & -) their occurs repulsion.

Protons are all positively charged and therefore must repel each other and the repulsion must be more intense the closer the proximity of the atoms.

In the nucleus of an atom, where protons are squeezed together until virtually contact, the electromagnetic repulsion must be enormously strong. And the protons still hold strong.

Now, neutrons are also present, however since they have a neutral electric charge they can neither repel or attract notta. Therefore they will neither hold the protons intact nor accelerate breakup.

In 1935, Jap physicist Hideki Yukawa showed that it was possible for protons and neutrons when very close to each other to produce an attractive force a thousand times greater than the electromagnetic repelling force, the nuclear force.

What the nuclear force holds together the electromagnetic force cannot blow apart.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 07:19 PM
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both protons and neutrons are composed of 3 quarks
a proton is composed of 2 'up' quarks of charge +2/3 and 1 'down' quark of charge -1/3 to give it a total charge of +1
a neutron is composed of 1 'up' quark and 2 'down' quarks giving it a total charge of 0
for reference, an electron carries a charge of -1
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post Feb 25, 2005, 07:24 PM
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Yeah, I'm just trying to get to the bottom , or should I say center, of what is, and I feel that one would be better informed and equiped to philosophize on reality if one knew the fundamental structure of the atom, the basic building block of everything.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 07:39 PM
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Yes, the electron, the most important lepton (from the Greek for 'weak'), sources of and responds to the weak force but never the nuclear force. Some leptons are electrically charged though and are a source of and respond to the electromagnetic force, as well as the weak force.

The negatively electric charged electron was discovered in 1897 by the English physicist Joseph John Thompson, and it recieved its name because it was the smallest unit of electric charge known.
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post Feb 25, 2005, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE
Yeah, I'm just trying to get to the bottom , or should I say center, of what is, and I feel that one would be better informed and equiped to philosophize on reality if one knew the fundamental structure of the atom, the basic building block of everything.
I agree, one cannot be part of the conversation if one does not understand it. I took my first two degrees in physics precisely because I wanted to understand what the f#@% is up with stuff
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post Feb 25, 2005, 08:03 PM
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Good call!

I've just been getting aquainted with it indepth since '02.
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post Feb 26, 2005, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE (Dan @ Feb 25, 08:19 PM)
both protons and neutrons are composed of 3 quarks
a proton is composed of 2 'up' quarks of charge +2/3 and 1 'down' quark of charge -1/3 to give it a total charge of +1
a neutron is composed of 1 'up' quark and 2 'down' quarks giving it a total charge of 0
for reference, an electron carries a charge of -1

And let us not forget strange matter.
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post Feb 26, 2005, 01:53 PM
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strange, but true

I bet there's a 'funk' field out there somewhere, just waiting to be discovered
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post Mar 07, 2005, 01:31 PM
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Define funk.
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post Mar 07, 2005, 03:24 PM
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funk is crazy cool, you dig?
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post Mar 08, 2005, 01:39 PM
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The cool thing about "cool" is that it's been cool for over 50 years now. I used the term as a kid in the 1950s.
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