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maximus242
post Nov 15, 2008, 10:03 PM
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Hi everyone, after being away for quite some time I have some new insights to share. Thoughts & opinions on this are always welcome.

Can we design reality?

What a strange question, but one worth considering. Is it possible for us to design reality? To create an entirely different reality with its own set of rules unlike the ones of this universe?

Thinking about this requires that one looks at current scientific theory about the formation of the universe. Aka, the big bang.

Now consider this question. Why does reality behave in the way it does?

Why do things react in the way they do rather than in some other way? Some people think that how atoms interact with each other has to do with the big bang. So perhaps this universe and the laws governing it, are something of random variation.

Meaning, if the big bang were to occur again, it could perhaps lead to an entirely different reality and cause it to work in a completely different way. Hard to imagine, but of course its hard to imagine the universe as anything different than what it is now. Its the only thing we've ever known.

So with this in mind, the universe is not something consisting of set, unmovable laws. Rather it may be no different than a chemical reaction, except this reaction causes atoms to interact with each other in different ways.

The idea is that under super immense force, such as the sum of the entire universe acting on itself. That the fundamental interaction between atoms can change.

Naturally, this is of course theory. However if this is true, then perhaps it is possible to engineer a reaction between atoms in a undefinable space, so that they interact with each other in a way that is different from how the atoms in our universe interact.

Just imagine the possibilities...
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Enki
post Nov 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Nov 15, 2008, 10:03 PM) *

Hi everyone, after being away for quite some time I have some new insights to share. Thoughts & opinions on this are always welcome.

Can we design reality?

What a strange question, but one worth considering. Is it possible for us to design reality? To create an entirely different reality with its own set of rules unlike the ones of this universe?

Thinking about this requires that one looks at current scientific theory about the formation of the universe. Aka, the big bang.

Now consider this question. Why does reality behave in the way it does?

Why do things react in the way they do rather than in some other way? Some people think that how atoms interact with each other has to do with the big bang. So perhaps this universe and the laws governing it, are something of random variation.

Meaning, if the big bang were to occur again, it could perhaps lead to an entirely different reality and cause it to work in a completely different way. Hard to imagine, but of course its hard to imagine the universe as anything different than what it is now. Its the only thing we've ever known.

So with this in mind, the universe is not something consisting of set, unmovable laws. Rather it may be no different than a chemical reaction, except this reaction causes atoms to interact with each other in different ways.

The idea is that under super immense force, such as the sum of the entire universe acting on itself. That the fundamental interaction between atoms can change.

Naturally, this is of course theory. However if this is true, then perhaps it is possible to engineer a reaction between atoms in a undefinable space, so that they interact with each other in a way that is different from how the atoms in our universe interact.

Just imagine the possibilities...


My deepest respects Maximus, great ideas indeed.

Indeed that opens great opportunities.

We even can call it God Level Magic. Super Alchemistry.

What about direct practical applications of the theory? wink.gif
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Enki
post Nov 16, 2008, 11:33 AM
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E.g. Agent Jay from Men in Black film became US president possibly under auspices of Ms. Calypso from Pirates of Caribbean II film. Charlie Chaplin effect, hmmm?

Is not it the reality modification? It is just funny, but who knows...
God level reality manipulation...? A Divine Joke or ??? coincidence.

So the same in physics, there is a great scope of experiments yielding different results esp when the matter approaches to the Fluctuations Theory.
________________

Reality fluctuates as all equations in physics does. Fluctuations profile introduces new reality.

> So with this in mind, the universe is not something consisting of set, unmovable laws.

Who knows, maybe in time some physical constants change a little causing things to change seriously.

There was an old theory about growing mass of the earth from inside now discarded, our reality changes from age to age and we forget the past like nothing happened.

We talk about pyramids in Egypt but when archeologists find a pyramid in Bosnia (with big 'stone' balls) our reality changes abruptly. And so on...

One day it may turn so that different people live in different realities depending on which "waves" their brains are. Mr. Don Quixote was seeing different things in things people never seen them to be such as he been describing (e.g. Don Quixote and the Brilliant Name of Fire: https://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisp...p?bookid=44718).

"We live in the best of bests of the possible words" ... wink.gif Maybe. laugh.gif
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Enki
post Nov 16, 2008, 11:37 AM
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Thus, slowly we approach to Mr. Pullman and Golden Compass ideas. wink.gif
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Lindsay
post Nov 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Nov 15, 2008, 10:03 PM) *

Hi everyone, after being away for quite some time I have some new insights to share. Thoughts & opinions on this are always welcome.

Can we design reality? ...
Thanks for this topic, Max. For some time now, I have been of the opinion that we are designing reality--consciously or unconsciously for better or for worse. The sooner we make the conscious and love-based choice to do so, and in cooperation with all those willing to make the same kind of choice, the better kind of reality there will be for all of us.
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Rick
post Nov 16, 2008, 01:46 PM
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Creating reality is the object of Frank Tipler's book The Physics of Immortality.
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Phi
post Nov 16, 2008, 07:08 PM
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I guess that's why the story of Jesus exists. If you went around loving everything, you'd probably be accused of having some kind of problem, outcasted, and eventually killed(at least where I live). I know that love will be the only action that will satisfy me, and the only way I will be satisfied is if I love the way I want to show it.

But isn't the only reason why that works is because of the chemicals in your brain? If we didn't feel good from love, would any one of us do it? In reality, love alone is a selfish concept.

My reality would be to escape this cycle of existence, by whatever means I can figure out(I'm not for suicide...I think that ends all cycles).I know that this form will never fully satisfy my needs...so the last step is to just be.

Forget right or wrong, good or bad, happy or sad...and learn how to be like God.

Exist, experience, and expect nothing; only create opportunity. I guess that's why so many people call these topics a big circle along with life...a selfless concept

Can we really do anything more than that? Your needs are fundamentally the same, anything that would stray is just you tricking yourself of reality...which is okay too, but may not be as satisfying!

Not that love isn't needed, but that this form induces love consistantly

From my perspective, every other way can be respected...while hopefully giving toward another form of life, and not losing anything in the process.

It may not sound fancy, or appetizing, but it is the simplest form to acknowledge the entirety
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Lindsay
post Nov 16, 2008, 08:21 PM
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YOUR INVITATION TO BE PART OF A GREAT MOVEMENT TO HELP OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD
===============================================================
I repeat: As a unitheist and interested is helping create a new reality, I admire people, including atheists and agnostics, who really can--and I don't mean those who pretend they can--live moral, ethical, useful and happy lives on the basis of physicalism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physicalism

BUT ISN'T PHYSICALISM ENOUGH?
Physicalism is a philosophical position holding that everything which exists is no more extensive than its physical properties; that is, that there are no kinds of things other than physical things. The term was coined by Otto Neurath in a series of early 20th century essays on the subject, in which he wrote:

"According to physicalism, the language of physics is the universal language of science and, consequently, any knowledge can be brought back to the statements on the physical objects."

Physicalists are those who choose to say: "I can live quite well without believing in gods, or God, especially the kind imposed by certain religionists." They have every right to do so.

WHEN LIFE HANDS YOU A LEMON
But what happens when life does turn sour? More often than not, our lot in life is not a happy one. For most people, atheists included, there are times when we are called on to face evils that cause us much suffering, pain and even the tragedy of death. What then?

BTW, I will leave it to atheists themselves to tell us how they handle life when it turns sour; when evil circumstances--often inflicted by the so-called Bible, Koran, etc-believers--seem to immerse their lives in pain and misery.

THE PROCESS PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY OF ALFRED NORTH WHITEHEAD
=============================================================
Meanwhile, as a unitheist--that is, one who is very critical of traditional theism, deism and pantheism--I am proud to be one person is a great movement known as process philosophy and theology (PPT). Heaven is not destiny; it is a process.

PPT is dedicated to developing a new kind of reality based on a rational faith and an open theology. It is one which is not afraid to explore that which is beyond reason, but it does not advocate going contrary to it.

THIS MOVEMENT IS GROWING
Some very brilliant male and female minds, many professors at our great institutions of learning,have come to the conclusion --dreamed of long ago by the great prophets of all the great religions--that we live, move and have our being in an infinite and eternal universe--which I call GOD--a kind of quantum computer, which is just waiting for us to connect with it and tune in to its unlimited supply of god-like knowledge, wisdom and power, which is available for us to use and begin the creation of a love-based reality.

BTW, no one is insisting that god-talk must be used by those who, for personal reasons, find it uncomfortable to do so. This being granted, why would any rational person interested in being part of creating a better reality conclude that the philosophy of physicalism is our only option?
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Phi
post Nov 16, 2008, 08:34 PM
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I'm not, but maybe I could expound: I think it's confusing to a lot of people when the term God is used, as I think it is offensive to a lot of people to take a cold approach. I think the form I explained is intertwined directly to your claim, I only felt like love and many other forms could be misleading when coined alone.

Like I stated, I believe my view is inclusive of all other views...and it is the simplest form of saying the same thing. Even though it works for me because of a lack of confusion on where to apply the knowledge, I'm not implying that it is the only way. I think it is efficient and takes an appreciation toward bridging the gaps of all perspectives, theist or heathen
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Phi
post Nov 16, 2008, 08:45 PM
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BTW, when you first introduced me to the term unitheism, I thought it was excellent that there was such a thing around. My problem was that the approach tended to turn people off of the idea. Maybe that helps explain how I feel toward bridging both sides...
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maximus242
post Nov 17, 2008, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ Nov 16, 2008, 02:46 PM) *

Creating reality is the object of Frank Tipler's book The Physics of Immortality.


Thanks Rick, im going to go hunt that down.

I don't know about it being super alchemy or god level magic. I really just see it as another level of physics, a physics of physics. Seeing atomic interaction as a variable rather than a constant. While it might be extremely difficult to change the way atoms interact with each other, the very idea that it might be possible changes everything.

Its no longer about observing how things work in our universe, but considering the implications of how things may work in all universes. One has to wonder, what occurs under such immense forces such as the force before the big bang? The forces acting on each other would have been incredible. Under such pressure, one has to wonder if the interaction between atoms changed on a fundamental level.
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Phi
post Nov 17, 2008, 09:33 AM
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That's why I prefer metaphysics, but each part feeds off of one another.
Just take a look at our body. We are made of of tons of particles each existing in empty space. The only thing that makes the particles move, or grow, or form, or whatever you want to manipulate is the action of the bigger body.

I think that the view of multiple universes is kind of ridiculous as it is way too large to even grasp the entirety of one. I think that's where the singularity of our existence comes into play
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maximus242
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:15 AM
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We are too large for an atom to grasp the entirety of us. Its all relative.
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Phi
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:19 AM
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Yezzur. So once we know that we can't grasp what we cannot physically see, how can we ever test hypothesis? and since I'm tying a couple threads together, what would be the point of finding out what caused the big bang? Not that there has to be one, but that's just how I tend to work
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maximus242
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:28 AM
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The more we understand about the world around us, the more we can use it to our advantage and increase our chances of survival. We can use theories and develop tests based off of those theories to help determine if something is correct or not.

Its never 100% certain, alls we can do is have a best guess. Which is the difference between science and religion, science says there is a 99% chance this is right but we could be wrong, religion says this is right and thats all there is to it.

They already use different instruments and measurement tools for things we cannot see as a way of testing whether or not something exists. For example, you can use micro changes in gravity as a means of checking things on a quantum scale.
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Phi
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Ok. So is there a practical application yet?
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maximus242
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Well we cant have a practical application for something we have not discovered yet. But if we fully understood how the universe was formed, you would be looking at faster rockets, super computing unlike anything ever imagined, superweapons capable of destroying entire solar systems, much more efficient power generation systems, etc.
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Phi
post Nov 17, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Well, I believe you answered my question....the intention is to find one. I admire the search for that. I wish I had time to do that all day. I tend to be more fascinated with interaction, as I think there are many unanswered questions for many people.
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Joesus
post Nov 17, 2008, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Nov 17, 2008, 07:28 PM) *

The more we understand about the world around us, the more we can use it to our advantage and increase our chances of survival.

The more we understand the consciousness which derives individuality from the One Consciousness, the more we understand who we are and how the universe comes into being.
The human form then becomes known as a projection and survival a moot point.
If you can manufacture humanity thru desire as consciousness, and the world around you, you realize the world is not only changing by our design but is manufactured in multidimensional reflections of who we are, constantly.

You wouldn't fear to change your clothes if you did not identify with being the clothes, but you would fear being discarded if you thought you were the clothes subject to change. So the mind that is aware of itself beyond the body does not fear changing the outer clothing of the soul. The relative world is, thru the perspective of individuality of the ego, different to each one who experiences it. There are similarities we share, but each egoic identity is built of choices and beliefs.
Change belief and the experience of self and of life changes. Change the awareness from the clothing to that which is wearing the clothing and there are no limits to how we choose to dress our consciousness.
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Rick
post Nov 17, 2008, 03:30 PM
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If all life is extinguished in a planetary disaster, there will be no clothes to change into. That is one way I can be killed that it is reasonable to fear, so long as the possibility of a disaster exists.

Stephen Hawking said we need to move into space to increase our odds of survival. He's right.
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Enki
post Nov 17, 2008, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Nov 17, 2008, 11:40 AM) *

Well we cant have a practical application for something we have not discovered yet. But if we fully understood how the universe was formed, you would be looking at faster rockets, super computing unlike anything ever imagined, superweapons capable of destroying entire solar systems, much more efficient power generation systems, etc.


Some discovered, some not. This is the difference Maximus. Look what Lindsay writes:

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Nov 16, 2008, 08:21 PM) *

THIS MOVEMENT IS GROWING
Some very brilliant male and female minds, many professors at our great institutions of learning,have come to the conclusion --dreamed of long ago by the great prophets of all the great religions--that we live, move and have our being in an infinite and eternal universe--which I call GOD--a kind of quantum computer, which is just waiting for us to connect with it and tune in to its unlimited supply of god-like knowledge, wisdom and power, which is available for us to use and begin the creation of a love-based reality.


As you see the brotherhood of Free Pirates progressed much in the art. wink.gif Please pay attention to the following "god-like knowledge, wisdom and power".

But certainly they never could advance to the upper levels of true power. tongue.gif I guess. wink.gif
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maximus242
post Nov 18, 2008, 12:59 AM
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I dont know if that is a discovery but rather a hypothesis of what might come.

I find your post fascinating Joesus.

I think what he is saying Rick is that we identify our bodies as ourselves and is suggesting that there is something else that stores or embodies ones "self" and that the body is meerly the clothes of the mind.

In other words it is like playing a video game and identifying yourself as the video game character, you may be controlling the character but if it dies you live on. Perhaps this world is just a game, an entertainment for the mind.
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trojan_libido
post Nov 18, 2008, 02:03 AM
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I think that explanation fits best. The mind is sitting at the crown of this biological joystick, hoping he can get the best score or fastest time, and maybe even get his or her name on the Universal High Score list.
QUOTE
I think that the view of multiple universes is kind of ridiculous as it is way too large to even grasp the entirety of one
We have entire Universes within our bodies. In my view of the Universe, each Universe contains microcosmic copies of the original, but inverted. Where we see Space as the ultimate frontier and the 'outside' of our world, an organism living in the pit of your stomach in its natural juicy world would see the 'outside' as a strange semi-solid wall. Like living in a fishbowl made from human flesh.

So I don't think its necessary for a multi-verse to be literal parallel Universes, after all the organisms in our body and on our body are actually in parallel with our own perceived Universe.
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Phi
post Nov 18, 2008, 07:47 AM
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I 2nd that, it seems like trojan is my long lost twin from the UK

I don't think many see the value of viewing reality as they still find themselves bound by what they perceive as law. Not that I agree with that point of view, but it's going to take a definition as to how to realize that ego loss can truly be achieved. Of course, they would probably also have to ask first. How will people ever see the value joesus?

So rick, do you think you will be able to move into space in your lifetime?

And to the rest, it's never too late for anyone to try and adapt.

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Lindsay
post Nov 18, 2008, 08:36 AM
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Max
QUOTE
Perhaps this world is just a game, an entertainment for the mind.
Making no claim that I am infallible, The pneuma (spiritual) component of me lives with the assumption that the following is true: My ego, my psyche-base mind and body (soma) are like young children who want my undivided attention. They want to be happy and to avoid pain--that is, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Suggested amendment to the American constitution: What we need is, "peace of mind".

As a pneumatological being I have two choices.

1. I can remain unconscious and give in to the demands of my mind and body--both child-like and ego-based components--with the result that the illusion, the zero-sum game of life, with its winning and losing, booms and busts, will continue.

2. Or I can opt for real peace of mind by accepting the gift of a calm awareness in the Now of all circumstances, without any domination by ego-based emotions. This will draw my mind/body "children" within me, and my actual flesh-and-blood children to join me in the process of creating a unified reality where there is no game-like separation. This leads to our finding pneumatological maturity and our becoming the kind of god-like Beings we really are.
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Rick
post Nov 18, 2008, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE(Phi @ Nov 18, 2008, 07:47 AM) *
So rick, do you think you will be able to move into space in your lifetime?

Space is hard, so doing it is very expensive. Due to the stupidity of the Americans in electing and re-electing the cowboy clown to the White House, we are about to embark on a world-wide recession, perhaps a great depression. Therefore, technological progress and the space programs in particular will be somewhat stunted in the next dozen or so years. Unless by some miracle I am chosen to be an astronaut, I don't have any practical expectation of moving into space within the next 50 years.

I think the first colonization of space will take place in the second half of this century, if not later.
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Phi
post Nov 18, 2008, 09:01 AM
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So I guess you don't have to worry about what hawking said.
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Rick
post Nov 18, 2008, 09:10 AM
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I may not have to worry about it, but I do.
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Phi
post Nov 18, 2008, 09:11 AM
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A plane could crash into your house
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Rick
post Nov 18, 2008, 09:13 AM
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Or a gold meteorite.
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