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> The Consciousness Singularity Has Already Happened?, Its not what you think
maximus242
post Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM
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I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times.

How so?

Lets look at something smaller to gain insight into something larger.

You have, billions of cells within your body. All of them are capable of existing on their own. But they put aside their individual desires and work towards a singular goal. Whatever goal the conscious mind sets is what billions of cells conspire to make happen.

In so many ways this is consciousness singularity, you are in fact the sum, of billions of cells. Just as a larger mind would be the sum of billions of human minds.

So in a way, we really are in multiple singularities, a cell singularity if you will.

You are not one individual, but billions of tinier individuals brought together to make a new life form.

It's something to think about...
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Hey Hey
post Jul 24, 2007, 05:47 PM
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What about the symbiotic microorganisms? (10^14 of them, 10^13 of you)
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post Jul 25, 2007, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM) *

I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times.
It's something to think about...

If the time-space dimension we're trapped in right now ceases to exist in a CS state of mind, and if we really will be able to achieve CS at some point in time; then it should have already happened. It should have always been there. But how can we know this? Is somebody (ourselves) watching (over) us?
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maximus242
post Jul 25, 2007, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 24, 2007, 07:47 PM) *

What about the symbiotic microorganisms? (10^14 of them, 10^13 of you)


lol they're important too.

QUOTE(code buttons @ Jul 25, 2007, 07:35 AM) *

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM) *

I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times.
It's something to think about...

If the time-space dimension we're trapped in right now ceases to exist in a CS state of mind, and if we really will be able to achieve CS at some point in time; then it should have already happened. It should have always been there. But how can we know this? Is somebody (ourselves) watching (over) us?


Not nessecarily, that would be like saying if there are cells in existence at one point in time, then at that same time they should have spontaniously formed together to create intelligent lifeforms. Things can come together with time.

What the consciousness singularity could really be is another stage in human evolution.
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post Jul 25, 2007, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 25, 2007, 08:59 PM) *
What the consciousness singularity could really be is another stage in human evolution.
This implies following the Darwinian process. Shaw does not think this is so:

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 11:24 PM) *
What will be the mechanisms for the Conciousness Singularity? Shawn does not believe that it will be random variation and natural selection ( http://brainmeta.com/index.php?p=consciousness-singularity ), but will be humanly contrived.
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Hey Hey
post Jul 25, 2007, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Jul 25, 2007, 02:35 PM) *
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM) *
I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times. It's something to think about...
If the time-space dimension we're trapped in right now ceases to exist in a CS state of mind, and if we really will be able to achieve CS at some point in time; then it should have already happened. It should have always been there. But how can we know this? Is somebody (ourselves) watching (over) us?
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 11:24 PM) *
When Shawn says that, "... I do not believe there will be just 'one' consciousness singularity, but many, since states of consciousness are all relative ...", could this imply that there might be infinite singularities ahead? Or could there be a limit, set say by the life of the universe? Or will the consciousness singularity allow the transcendence of even this? Could it have already happened? Hey, is there a god? biggrin.gif And does it have free will? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
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post Jul 26, 2007, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 02:33 PM) *

QUOTE(code buttons @ Jul 25, 2007, 02:35 PM) *
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM) *
I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times. It's something to think about...
If the time-space dimension we're trapped in right now ceases to exist in a CS state of mind, and if we really will be able to achieve CS at some point in time; then it should have already happened. It should have always been there. But how can we know this? Is somebody (ourselves) watching (over) us?
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 11:24 PM) *
When Shawn says that, "... I do not believe there will be just 'one' consciousness singularity, but many, since states of consciousness are all relative ...", could this imply that there might be infinite singularities ahead? Or could there be a limit, set say by the life of the universe? Or will the consciousness singularity allow the transcendence of even this? Could it have already happened? Hey, is there a god? biggrin.gif And does it have free will? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


I never meant to steal your thunder there, Hey Hey. I missed your post. I am particularly intruigued by the CS in relation to the death of the Universe. Very good set of questions.
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Hey Hey
post Jul 26, 2007, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE(code buttons @ Jul 26, 2007, 08:39 PM) *
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 02:33 PM) *
QUOTE(code buttons @ Jul 25, 2007, 02:35 PM) *
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jul 24, 2007, 04:08 PM) *
I was thinking about this alot and in a way, the Consciousness Singularity has already occured multiple times. It's something to think about...
If the time-space dimension we're trapped in right now ceases to exist in a CS state of mind, and if we really will be able to achieve CS at some point in time; then it should have already happened. It should have always been there. But how can we know this? Is somebody (ourselves) watching (over) us?
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 25, 2007, 11:24 PM) *
When Shawn says that, "... I do not believe there will be just 'one' consciousness singularity, but many, since states of consciousness are all relative ...", could this imply that there might be infinite singularities ahead? Or could there be a limit, set say by the life of the universe? Or will the consciousness singularity allow the transcendence of even this? Could it have already happened? Hey, is there a god? biggrin.gif And does it have free will? biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
I never meant to steal your thunder there, Hey Hey. I missed your post. I am particularly intruigued by the CS in relation to the death of the Universe. Very good set of questions.
No problem code. In fact I think you posted your comments before my own. Maybe we are thinking singularly! smile.gif
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maximus242
post Jul 27, 2007, 01:10 AM
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I am not talking about natural evolution, im talking moreso about an intentional evolution like how we have better nutrition to live longer and how some people are installing cybernetics.

I think the consciousness singularity could be brought out intentionally.
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post Jul 27, 2007, 05:41 AM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 26, 2007, 12:24 PM) *

Maybe we are thinking singularly! smile.gif

And maybe we both got tickets to the CS! Wouldn't that be nice!
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Joesus
post Jul 27, 2007, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE


I think the consciousness singularity could be brought out intentionally.

If it already exists then it can't be more than it is unless the existence of it eludes you consciously.
To bring it out would be to remove personal blinders to its ongoing presence in reality.

Think about it. If you remove the borders created by evolution or the idea of space and time then there is no distance from one thought to another, they all exist now.
Maybe the level of consciousness that identifies itself with space and time is not the level of consciousness that is beyond space and time.

Duality of identity, separation of the appearance from that which creates appearances, perception by belief.
If the singularity is to be realized it would be through the perfection of the wheel of life in every moment layered in its multidimensionality of perception and belief, experience and lack of.
With so many different levels of conscious awareness present at one time sharing the perception of reality at different levels why cling to you own and try to make the infinite fit within your personal box. Why not just let go of yours to expand it through all that you can see and imagine from a personal platform to reach beyond current levels and bypass evolution?

And so what you focus on grows...
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maximus242
post Jul 27, 2007, 01:42 PM
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Then prehaps, intentionally increase our awareness of what already exists?

I.E. Become more aware of the consciousness singularity that already exists
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Joesus
post Jul 27, 2007, 03:18 PM
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There you go..
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post Jul 27, 2007, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 27, 2007, 09:36 AM) *

QUOTE


I think the consciousness singularity could be brought out intentionally.

If it already exists then it can't be more than it is unless the existence of it eludes you consciously.
To bring it out would be to remove personal blinders to its ongoing presence in reality.

Think about it. If you remove the borders created by evolution or the idea of space and time then there is no distance from one thought to another, they all exist now.
Maybe the level of consciousness that identifies itself with space and time is not the level of consciousness that is beyond space and time.

Duality of identity, separation of the appearance from that which creates appearances, perception by belief.
If the singularity is to be realized it would be through the perfection of the wheel of life in every moment layered in its multidimensionality of perception and belief, experience and lack of.
With so many different levels of conscious awareness present at one time sharing the perception of reality at different levels why cling to you own and try to make the infinite fit within your personal box. Why not just let go of yours to expand it through all that you can see and imagine from a personal platform to reach beyond current levels and bypass evolution?

And so what you focus on grows...

Why, that's the whole point, Joesus! CS needs to become a reality within our consciousness, not just a concept like it is right now. We know about it and what it means to us, we imagine bits and pieces of what it's like, yet can't quite get to it yet. Because, we are not ready, I guess. All of our attemps so far, scientific or spiritual have served as a means to the end; but the end itself has managed to elude us. The answer as to how to achieve CS lies somewhere in our brains, dormant for right now. And for the next few years, according to Shawn.
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Joesus
post Jul 27, 2007, 08:06 PM
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QUOTE
And for the next few years, according to Shawn.

There is no space between the absolute and the Self/self. They are the same.
Man limits himself according to beliefs and illusions created by beliefs.
If it is inside your brain then all that would be required is to dump what isn't serving you to know and be that.
Remembering is all well and good and most will seem to follow this path if they cannot simply let go of the attachments to identity, but there is no rule that says one must evolve or take steps to awaken.

If enlightenment/conscious singularity exists then it waits for you unless you believe the universe is holding it back or hasn't produced it for lack of potential use.

The plain truth is most don't really want it and are preoccupied with other things.
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post Jul 28, 2007, 12:26 PM
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I don't believe we are, or are in, the consciousness singularity. I think that approach is a cop out and avoids what we need to do/discuss to achieve the development of the CS. OK, we still have a lot to develop with our present consciousness, but it is inevitably limited by the meager organic foundation that currently creates it. We should go for it, in terms of psychological, biological and engineering enhancements to create the CS. No excuses for awe of the enormous problems to overcome to do this, no diversions to take us down routes that are merely semantics, no time wasting on religion and other fairy stories, no room for the unimaginative and uneducated.
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maximus242
post Jul 28, 2007, 02:43 PM
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Hey Hey, the flaw in that theory is you accept what science tells you about reality. The main problem is science only accepts one definition of what reality is, which leaves no room for philosophy. Whilest science may have proven foundations in this reality, that is the equivilant of understanding the science within a computer game.

What applies in a computer simulation may or may not apply in our reality because the rules can be bent in the simulation. Therefore, we must look beyond what we just know and think on what we do not know.

There are so many possibilities as to what reality could be, therefore, a connection could exist that we are not aware of. Ultimately if we are talking physiological enhancements then we are looking at electromagnetic waves. The reason being if the brain is indeed based in electrical stimulation of brain cells, all electrical currents give off electromagnetic fields.

Because of this we can deduce that communication can be established through electromagnetic communication if the waves are strong enough and the person is sensitive enough. The reason why this communication does not already exist is because their is not enough energy generated in order to produce strong enough of a electromagnetic waves to be read by any known devices other than TMS and EEG.

However, some studies have shown the brain is effected by low power electromagnetic waves and that the waves currently produced in humans may in fact have the ability to affect other humans on the sub-conscious level. It is of course is still up in the air about the effects and the level of effect generated.

So if we are to look at possible vechicals for a consciousness singularity, I believe electromagnetic waves is something that should be investigated.
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post Jul 28, 2007, 04:22 PM
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We will go around in circles for ever about the nature of reality, certainly for many 100's of years if not forever. Meanwhile we will go no further in achieving the CS unless we go forwards from THIS point. Instead of harping on about what we think we ARE, Wwe need to look at what we MIGHT BE or CAN ACHIEVE. Anyway, what has reality got to do with the CS? The scientific SEARCH for the truth and the aesthetic values of phenomena are much more important to most of us than any FINAL ANSWER, and the enlightened already know the latter is unachievable.
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post Jul 28, 2007, 05:30 PM
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QUOTE
The scientific SEARCH for the truth and the aesthetic values of phenomena are much more important to most of us than any FINAL ANSWER, and the enlightened already know the latter is unachievable.

To place much value on illusions or ever changing truths and aesthetic values that have no sense of finality might say something about those people and why they are not enlightened.
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post Jul 28, 2007, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 29, 2007, 02:30 AM) *
QUOTE
The scientific SEARCH for the truth and the aesthetic values of phenomena are much more important to most of us than any FINAL ANSWER, and the enlightened already know the latter is unachievable.
To place much value on illusions or ever changing truths and aesthetic values that have no sense of finality might say something about those people and why they are not enlightened.
You're so right, but then again you're so right about everything. No doctor, he is, really! wacko.gif
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post Jul 29, 2007, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Jul 28, 2007, 12:26 PM) *

I don't believe we are, or are in, the consciousness singularity. I think that approach is a cop out and avoids what we need to do/discuss to achieve the development of the CS. OK, we still have a lot to develop with our present consciousness, but it is inevitably limited by the meager organic foundation that currently creates it. We should go for it, in terms of psychological, biological and engineering enhancements to create the CS. No excuses for awe of the enormous problems to overcome to do this, no diversions to take us down routes that are merely semantics, no time wasting on religion and other fairy stories, no room for the unimaginative and uneducated.

100% d'accord. Guided by the positive aspects of the human fabric we shall make use of all available resources to our brain capacity (which means full accountability of our binary attributes) towards the innevitable rational outcome of what every individual human being is and humanity is destined to be: The highest possible expression of the universe and inheretently, therefore, its rightful masters.
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trojan_libido
post Jul 31, 2007, 04:24 AM
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By the power of Greyskull!
Sorry, 80's child and the 'Masters of Universe' made me think of poor ole cringer the battlecat, orco, and He-Man! Quality retro TV.

Anyway, the CS, yeah, sign me up dude.
I'm up for instant telepathy-telempathy-telekinetic-mind-over-matter-create-a-date-weird-science kind of thing.

Seriously, I think the moment we interface biology with silicon or its successor, we will be at the beginning of the journey into the singularity. Online worlds with full emotive expression, collective emotion and understanding, time becoming irrelevant etc.
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post Jul 31, 2007, 05:05 AM
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Jul 31, 2007, 01:24 PM) *
I'm up for instant telepathy-telempathy-telekinetic-mind-over-matter-create-a-date-weird-science kind of thing.
We won't need telepathy, as we just need to technologically advance mobile phones and make them "built in". Then later, chipping at birth would sort out all sorts of things: communication, security, entertainment ... singularity?
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trojan_libido
post Jul 31, 2007, 05:17 AM
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No one can deny speed of matter and information, efficiency and instant communication are behind almost all advancements this century. In fact they seem to be at the heart of all inventions. The need for instant communication and gratification/entertainment are definately part of our move towards a global plugging in to our artificial network.
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post Jul 31, 2007, 05:23 AM
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And electronic (+photonic) transmission is faster than neuronal so it must be better to incorporate devices based on these (or future technologies) into our bodies? In fact, I can't imagine any CS without that type of intervention. Maybe if there are other ways, someone could point out any other methods that have credibility.
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trojan_libido
post Jul 31, 2007, 06:08 AM
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We definately need to incorporate biological processes into our machines. Greenhouses full of ripe motherboards for our pcs smile.gif

Almost all our pre-information age inventions mimicked nature, the airplane wing, the camera, supporting structures and the shape of an egg. We shouldnt stop now. Although nano-technology is coming and I guess thats along the same lines as small biological systems.
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post Jul 31, 2007, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Jul 31, 2007, 03:08 PM) *
Although nano-technology is coming and I guess thats along the same lines as small biological systems.
Yes, see my other post: http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showt...t=0&#entry81144
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Quantum
post Dec 23, 2008, 08:04 AM
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Wired magazine predicts the techno singularity will occur by 2050. I can't find the article online, and I haven't dug out the correct issue of the magazine yet, so please just take my word for it for now.

Regarding the consciousness singularity, I experienced something this morning that made me wonder if something like this hasn't already happened. I was working out, and I saw that another man was about to lift a large amount of weight. I decided to go over and give him a "spot", just to make sure he didn't accidentally kill himself. He was very grateful, and I felt good after helping him. When that happened, he and I made a connection, in the same way that the brain makes a connection between two neurons. He and I had created a relationship (albeit a very small and inconsequential one). For the rest of my time there, he was aware of me and I was aware of him. Had we made plans to continue working out together in the future, it could be compared to two neurons growing closer together in the brain, enhancing and strengthening their relationship, their connection.

Perhaps we are all just neurons, or electrical energy, in the mind of some larger organism- "God".
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post Dec 23, 2008, 11:52 AM
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QUOTE(Quantum @ Dec 23, 2008, 04:04 PM) *
I was working out, and I saw that another man was about to lift a large amount of weight. I decided to go over and give him a "spot", just to make sure he didn't accidentally kill himself. He was very grateful, and I felt good after helping him. When that happened, he and I made a connection, in the same way that the brain makes a connection between two neurons. He and I had created a relationship (albeit a very small and inconsequential one). For the rest of my time there, he was aware of me and I was aware of him. Had we made plans to continue working out together in the future, it could be compared to two neurons growing closer together in the brain, enhancing and strengthening their relationship, their connection.
wub.gif?
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Quantum
post Dec 23, 2008, 11:53 AM
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QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Dec 23, 2008, 11:52 AM) *

QUOTE(Quantum @ Dec 23, 2008, 04:04 PM) *
I was working out, and I saw that another man was about to lift a large amount of weight. I decided to go over and give him a "spot", just to make sure he didn't accidentally kill himself. He was very grateful, and I felt good after helping him. When that happened, he and I made a connection, in the same way that the brain makes a connection between two neurons. He and I had created a relationship (albeit a very small and inconsequential one). For the rest of my time there, he was aware of me and I was aware of him. Had we made plans to continue working out together in the future, it could be compared to two neurons growing closer together in the brain, enhancing and strengthening their relationship, their connection.
wub.gif?


No, this had nothing to do with any man on man lovin'. Wise guy.
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