BrainMeta'   Connectomics'  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> New approaches… (2), to old concepts and old approaches to new concepts
waechter418
post Jun 11, 2017, 09:28 AM
Post #1


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



It is recommended to study “Another view of Consciousness” in order to become familiar with the concepts underlying the following proposals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Courage, steadfastness and flexibility, are virtues that assist the performance of existence and thus the realisation of Consciousness.

These virtues turn into vices, where cannon-fodder is considered courageous, civil servants firm, brave the working class hero, flexible the opportunists, righteous the blind and virtuous those who serve the powers of the weak. And power gets corrupted too, by those who consider it to be a danger to their weaknesses, as well as by the weak who try to gain power through them.

Which is not to say that power has become obsolete – in contrary, there is a growing epidemic of so called world-, market-, media- & other powers of the powerless, who seem to thrive on the hope that weakness + weakness = power, from where probably stems also the notion of a “will to power”, which is, besides perverting will as well as power – because will is power – no more but a wishful thinking of the weak, that more often than not drives them into wars.

But war is obviously not limited to the weak forces of Consciousness, as there have been plenty of cultures who practiced it without religious, moral, economical, racist, political or ideological excuses, but worshipped – in view of their gods, arts & epics – war as an expression of Consciousness and their powerful and mighty as representatives of its lust and joy of existence.

Power implies capability – and the performance of existence requires a capability that is associated with pride, which in turn connotes nobility that manifests in dignity & generosity – characteristics that have enabled the Homo to create splendorous cultures and at the same time to appreciate the capabilities of fellow animals. As a matter of fact, many cultures praised the capabilities and characteristics of animals – as well as of wind, water, volcanoes, trees, planets and other aspects of existence – in temples, myths and works of art, as expressions of Consciousness.

Worship existence is a major demand of LAL and a topical one, since existence has become a commodity for attempts to realise oneself through possessions.

Such attempts can be found in every R/P system. In the alternating, they are usually put at the service of its collectives, which in turn reward him, who tries to realise himself in such manner, with a reputation that seems to give him an identity. Hence the Orient brought forth cultures which were able to sustain themselves without immoderate copying & looting.

In the contrary R/P system, attempts to realise oneself through possessions brought about object- & people cults, of whom many were to become models for the Occident, which thus was never able to achieve an identity, but instead developed outstanding copying & ransacking skills that lead to an overabundance of viewpoints & objects – more so, since in Dualism the possession-relationship turns into an auto-division/multiplication of subject & object.

In the Orient these possibilities were obviously latent too, considering its innumerable thinkers who tried to regulate the possession-complex with social & political constructs and to restrain it with philosophies, religions & cosmologies. Whereas in the Occident there have – with the exception of categorical denials – almost no countermeasures been taken. And its thinkers reacted – if at all – only when the fusion & fission of the possession-complex effected extraordinary disturbances in its collectives and thus threatened the mirror rooms of the thinkers. And even then, they confined their responses to distribution- & redistribution theories, which – as division/multiplication variants – were unable to restrain this process, or to turn it into a self-sufficient relationship. Which in any case would have been quite difficult, as its positions and values change erratically and are moved by emotions that are obviously stronger than the reasons the thinkers boast of, considering their readiness to succumb to the possession complex, to promote it as a progress and law of nature and to encourage its commercial & political executive to export and to impose it upon other cultures. Of course no longer with colonial methods, which are in the age of globalisation obsolete, since the possession complex engenders plentiful medias to infect and to corrupt them with liberal-, economic, democratic- & whatever suitable ideologies.
Might be its promoters hope that if the possession-complex takes over their entire world, there will be no space left for other abstructs* – and thus a kind of unity and order might take place. If so, no one seems to contemplate of what such order might consist – certainly not the values & measures that have constituted the possession-complex, as they are deteriorating too.


(*abstract constructs)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jun 12, 2017, 05:39 AM
Post #2


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



Blah...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jun 12, 2017, 03:31 PM
Post #3


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



QUOTE(Joesus @ Jun 12, 2017, 05:39 AM) *

Blah...


yes my friend, even our avatars tell of the differences of our approach - but, if we like it or not, the rule still is: as above, so below
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jun 12, 2017, 06:21 PM
Post #4


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jun 12, 2017, 11:31 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jun 12, 2017, 05:39 AM) *

Blah...


yes my friend, even our avatars tell of the differences of our approach - but, if we like it or not, the rule still is: as above, so below


Chicken little thought the sky was falling when something hit it on the head.
That being said, to interpret Hermes with as much intellectual and duality based thinking as yours, is a lot like chicken little seeing the world thru a chickens eyes (to address your abstract concepts).

You subscribe to courage, steadfastness and flexibility, but to what and for what. The discipline of the sadhus was often the discipline of courage and steadfast force, to force the mind and body into submission. It was and always will be an unsuccessful approach as it only stresses the body and mind, reducing both the body and the minds ability to function naturally and with ease.
Flexibility without an anchor in the absolute as the real, only makes the mind and body less likely to commit to anything as it idolizes a projection of fantasy, or the goal that is imagined rather than known.
Since the world will allow itself to be shaped into any experience the ego will easily fall for any grand outcome as finality, when in actuality, the infinite is always going to be beyond any idea of finality or completion.

In the upanishads a question was posed of a student to a master. "What will it take for me to achieve enlightenment".

The answer was three things.
1. A viable method of approach (one that takes the mind easily and without struggle, inward and away from the outward attached senses of the ego).
2. Surround yourself with enlightened individuals. (Guidance from one or more who knows the path because it has been successfully traversed and understood by that/those person(s)/master(s) who would be the guide.
3. Study Scripture (words of the enlightened).. Simply taking for granted any meaning derived from another is not the same as understanding thru experience.

Role playing is relative to all things within duality. There are plenty of folks who claim to know what enlightenment is and even profess to be enlightened. Who could know for sure if they were themselves not enlightened?

Enlightenment is a lifetime commitment. There is no end or finality to the infinite. If there was, it wouldn't be infinite.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 11, 2017, 02:35 PM
Post #5


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



Dear Joe,
sorry to say, but i start loosing sight of you - probably because chickens are atheists....




User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 12, 2017, 05:52 AM
Post #6


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 11, 2017, 10:35 PM) *

Dear Joe,
sorry to say, but i start loosing sight of you - probably because chickens are atheists....


Understandable. Your approach to most of what you have written is from standing on the outside looking in.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 12, 2017, 11:43 AM
Post #7


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 12, 2017, 05:52 AM) *

QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 11, 2017, 10:35 PM) *

Dear Joe,
sorry to say, but i start loosing sight of you - probably because chickens are atheists....


Understandable. Your approach to most of what you have written is from standing on the outside looking in.


I understand your comments and do appreciate them sincerely (except when you become personal)


I offer different possibilities and leave it to the individual how to handle them - not only because i am a anarchist and atheist, but also because i think it could be helpful if we were to change some of our conventional self- and social abstructs, particularly those which proof to be unhealthy to our in- & outside
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 12, 2017, 06:15 PM
Post #8


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *



I understand your comments and do appreciate them sincerely (except when you become personal)
The exception is where and when you don't understand my comments.

QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *

I offer different possibilities and leave it to the individual how to handle them

Except when you believe the "handling" to be personal. Atheism for you, is not without a belief system that measures and judges the external reality when it appears separate from your making (so much for Hermes).
QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *

- not only because i am a anarchist and atheist, but also because i think it could be helpful if we were to change some of our conventional self- and social abstructs, particularly those which proof to be unhealthy to our in- & outside

I'm gonna take a risk and assume you meant "abstract" cool.gif

When you say inside and outside having health problems, yer speaking of the relative value of a projected system called the body. The "abstract," as you call it, and then presume to describe its affects, leads to an idea that something not real can have an affect on the "projected" reality. How do you subscribe to something like that and call yourself an anarchist and an atheist?

There is nothing chaotic about the universe, nothing separate, from the Self/self, other than the beliefs or illusion of such things.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 12, 2017, 09:09 PM
Post #9


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 12, 2017, 06:15 PM) *

QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *



I understand your comments and do appreciate them sincerely (except when you become personal)
The exception is where and when you don't understand my comments.

QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *

I offer different possibilities and leave it to the individual how to handle them

Except when you believe the "handling" to be personal. Atheism for you, is not without a belief system that measures and judges the external reality when it appears separate from your making (so much for Hermes).
QUOTE(waechter418 @ Jul 12, 2017, 07:43 PM) *

- not only because i am a anarchist and atheist, but also because i think it could be helpful if we were to change some of our conventional self- and social abstructs, particularly those which proof to be unhealthy to our in- & outside

I'm gonna take a risk and assume you meant "abstract" cool.gif

When you say inside and outside having health problems, yer speaking of the relative value of a projected system called the body. The "abstract," as you call it, and then presume to describe its affects, leads to an idea that something not real can have an affect on the "projected" reality. How do you subscribe to something like that and call yourself an anarchist and an atheist?

There is nothing chaotic about the universe, nothing separate, from the Self/self, other than the beliefs or illusion of such things.


This thread is not intended to be an exercise of dialectics, but to point out some of our hangups

For prior, i recommend the new threat titled "enlightenment"
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 13, 2017, 07:14 AM
Post #10


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



You espouse your personal beliefs with reality and expect to project your reasoning upon others, and then title the discussion "enlightenment".

You do realize no two individuals (because of the unique personality and experience factors) ever really experience anything the same way.

JJ Dewey likes to reference a game called "Chinese whispers" as an example to cognitive awareness and projection. You get a bunch of people together and start with one person creating a phrase. That initial phrase is whispered to the next in line and so on. By the time it gets to the end of the line it has been altered due to the way peoples minds chatter with the stresses of the past.

According to a Stamford research report, people think about 50,000 thoughts or more a day. The pattern reflects the outward senses searching for stability in the world where there is none because of the fact that change is a constant in time. Impressions create bumps in the thinking process where everything experienced is passed over the impression (which psychologically speaking is also called a stress). There are not only psychological stresses created by memory impression, but physical stresses due to the impurities in food, air and water. All of these accumulate over time, and they affect the way a person thinks and feels. Psychological stresses affect the body because the mind and body work together. Similarly physical stresses affect the mind and the ability to think and process sensory data.

Unless you clear the nervous system of stress, the cognitive functioning is hindered by the layers of physical and psychological stress. No amount of data e.g. books, scripture, philosophical information can be interpreted clearly when it is filtered thru years of imprints and beliefs in the physical reality as it is created in the mind with stress.

Simply stated the nervous system cannot function in a way to reach any degree of enlightenment beyond the first three states of consciousness known as Sleeping dreaming and waking states of consciousness. There are 7 states of consciousness. The 7th state of consciousness is impossible to reach if the mind has not been disciplined and the body cleared of stress.

What you advocate is knowledge and you have advertised Buddhist philosophy. Yet Buddhism like Christianity has been polluted by personal beliefs and philosophies as it has been passed down the line from its origins to the present folks in time, similar to the example made in the game of Chinese Whispers.

Enlightenment has traditionally had its roots in an oral tradition accompanied by the discipline and instruction of a practiced and accomplished master to his or her student, UNTIL the student has achieved Moksha or liberation from the outward driven senses, and has freed the nervous system and psychological defects of stress.

You like to quote Hermes with the "As above, so below" quote, yet you really don't have any idea what it means.

Consciousness is the basis of "everything" (that IS time and space). NOT relative consciousness such as awareness wrapped in, belief, policy, philosophy, or any understanding at any level. That is what free will decorates its house with. Consciousness is the wellspring for the entire universe. It IS infinite and without boundaries or conditions. Philosophy is simply a paint job on an object or idea imagined from a vehicle such as a body with a mind that is limited to its points of reference and its sensory limits. Enlightenment is something that exceeds the need to wrap anything into a package, yet understands the use of packaging for the purpose of use and presentation.

As I said before. You stand outside looking in, trying to express your thoughts about a subject that eludes you.

You take it personally, rather than use that information to find a means to help yourself.

YOU, can't help anyone or fix anything, until you help or fix yourself! Period!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 17, 2017, 02:37 PM
Post #11


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



"trying to express your thoughts about a subject that eludes you" is a common habit - except if you are all-knowing - but in such case it seems to be an act of vanity to lower yourself to the level of the helpless.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 18, 2017, 05:01 AM
Post #12


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601




yer probably right... rolleyes.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 18, 2017, 02:29 PM
Post #13


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



Consciousness is the basis of "everything" (that IS time and space). NOT relative consciousness such as awareness wrapped in, belief, policy, philosophy, or any understanding at any level. That is what free will decorates its house with. Consciousness is the wellspring for the entire universe. It IS infinite and without boundaries or conditions. Philosophy is simply a paint job on an object or idea imagined from a vehicle such as a body with a mind that is limited to its points of reference and its sensory limits. Enlightenment is something that exceeds the need to wrap anything into a package, yet understands the use of packaging for the purpose of use and presentation.

Well said !

I do appreciate most of your writings, obviously because our viewpoints and similar, and you know very well how to express yours. I do not hold it against you that your approach differ from mine, after all, each one has to explore his particular way (nature?).
Would be great if we were to meet sometimes on subjects of common interest.

P.S. You might have noticed that i promote the path of Thelema
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 19, 2017, 07:21 AM
Post #14


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will."

I've often discussed the idea of the "Golden rule" Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

There are 7 states of consciousness, each with their own subjective and objective experiences which define their differences, and each has their own natural laws to support them.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law, love under will." represents to the ego, to simply go hog wild with whatever suits you, or do whatever floats your boat.

Tho the Universe (which does not judge would lovingly, or unconditionally) support all actions since energy is simply energy. What the individual human mind would support, would be tantamount to his or her understanding of the reality in time and space.

In other words the Universe supported the rise of Hitler, Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper, The Christian Crusades as a killing fest and a host of other events. However the people as a whole, eventually beat all of these phenomena down, and tried to extinguish the cause of these events.

In the highest state of consciousness one realizes that all are just reflections of the ONE Consciousness. The relative universe and all living things within it as recognized by all relative beings of awareness regardless of levels of conscious awareness. In essence all is alive with consciousness and are reflections of that consciousness. In the lower levels of consciousness there exists separation of one from another.

Religion is a belief system. It is something that stands outside of Unity, because it is an image relegated to interpretation by the myriad of individual perceptions. The Universe is seen thru over 7 billion people all with their own ideas and unique ability to decide what they see, or what they want to see.

Basically religion is poop. It is what is left by ignorant human intervention. Any Archaeologist can analyze poop left from an older civilization and come to some kind of conclusion (based on their levels of perception) what they ate and maybe how they lived their lives.

To become conscious is to ascend religion and become that which inspires the ignorant to invent religion, because they have no direct experience of what the ascended being lives and experiences, but rather with their minds take what they see and hear using their limited senses and project into belief.

Don't follow any belief, religion or ideal. If you must follow anything follow the desire to know and find within all religions a constant or an origin that is the constant in all, which gave birth to the poop, but definitely look beyond the poop.

Ascend the poop!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 20, 2017, 08:57 AM
Post #15


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



In face of the dimension(s) of All, the individual`s respective strives, ways and actions are a petty, from the viewpoints, or states of Consciousness of the latter, nothing is petty enough to try to reach it.

Buddha, Christ and many others, said the same and in more simple words.

English being my second language, and farming my livelihood, does not allow me word-artistry proper to online-philosophers - yet it neither prevents me from trying to express my ideas

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post Jul 20, 2017, 05:15 PM
Post #16


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4063
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



So are you saying yer too busy to get help?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
waechter418
post Jul 20, 2017, 07:15 PM
Post #17


Newbie
*

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 40
Joined: Sep 20, 2015
Member No.: 37911



QUOTE(Joesus @ Jul 20, 2017, 05:15 PM) *

So are you saying yer too busy to get help?

biggrin.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th August 2017 - 11:33 AM


Home     |     About     |    Research     |    Forum     |    Feedback  


Copyright © BrainMeta. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use  |  Last Modified Tue Jan 17 2006 12:39 am

Consciousness Expansion · Brain Mapping · Neural Circuits · Connectomics  ·  Neuroscience Forum  ·  Brain Maps Blog
 · Connectomics · Connectomics  ·  shawn mikula  ·  articles